Epidemic of rangers and thieves in WvW

[manu.7539]

I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!For Ascalon!

[Caedmon.6798]

@"manu.7539" said:I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!For Ascalon!

You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

But to tbh

Thief > ThiefRanger > ThiefRev > Thief

Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

[Touchme.1097]

@fuzzyp.6295 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

Regards

I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Touchme.1097 said:

@fuzzyp.6295 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

Regards

I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

You will soon realize that the thief isnt toxic. He runs what he runs to avoid the ganks mostly that will otherwise happen on a non stealth spec when you solo roam. It just saves for a Whole lot of annoyance.

[manu.7539]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

But to tbh

Thief > ThiefRanger > ThiefRev > Thief

Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

Well, you may have any good counter build and master it, a thief that smell the trouble can easily run away, most class cant run away so easily from a thief, not at all! Same vs rangers. I didnt really care when they were a few out there but these days, seriously, I must stop solo roaming in a ppt purpose because whatever map I roam I meet these 2 class of roamers so often its making the game boring. Hunting thieves will be much funnier!

[Caedmon.6798]

@manu.7539 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

But to tbh

Thief > ThiefRanger > ThiefRev > Thief

Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

Well, you may have any good counter build and master it, a thief that smell the trouble can easily run away, most class cant run away so easily from a thief, not at all! Same vs rangers. I didnt really care when they were a few out there but these days, seriously, I must stop solo roaming in a ppt purpose because whatever map I roam I meet these 2 class of roamers so often its making the game boring. Hunting thieves will be much funnier!

I play thief,and i know how to counter a thief thats the thing. Play the class yourself so you know about init uses,survival and shadow steps etc. And realize they will die in 3 hits. If you know how to play a thief,you can counter them.

[kash.9213]

@manu.7539 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

But to tbh

Thief > ThiefRanger > ThiefRev > Thief

Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

Well, you may have any good counter build and master it, a thief that smell the trouble can easily run away, most class cant run away so easily from a thief, not at all! Same vs rangers. I didnt really care when they were a few out there but these days, seriously, I must stop solo roaming in a ppt purpose because whatever map I roam I meet these 2 class of roamers so often its making the game boring. Hunting thieves will be much funnier!

Regardless of what class you play you have to budget with your skill and utility slots and whatever your resources are like Initiative because while you want to catch some bodies you also have to anticipate getting pulled in close or locked down hard suddenly. It wont be a waste of time to casually float around and mostly watch people fighting sometimes and not even engage. You can target different people and see how they behave and react in their role in whatever scale group they're in. Between that and checking out your combat log while you can still picture a fight you just had you might feel what people are plotting sooner and you can move and position or set up something without spending your most of your budget on flak. Sometimes when I get outplayed it's because they pressured me into panic spending even when I'm telling myself to stop panicking and focus on what their system is.

[Andy.5981]

@"manu.7539" said:I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!For Ascalon!

Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I was playing with my guild the other day in SM outer when a deadeye downed my guildie in the distance. I try to interrupt the stomp but get there a little too late, so when I see the deadeye marked me I place smokescreen, stand still and wait for the "miss" notification to pop up. As soon as it does, I vault in place for stealth, turn my camera 180 degrees and use the staff sneak attack to knock down the deadeye. I know it connects as I get revealed, so I auto spam with quickness. The deadeye pops out of stealth downed, then immediately alt F4's. I laughed.

Thief is really, really easy to deal with if you know the builds they use and how they attack, just like any class. Thing is, most players cannot be bothered to learn how to do it, and so this conversation goes round and round indefinitely.

[reddie.5861]

@fuzzyp.6295 said:

@manu.7539 said:Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

I mean, a glass thief can usually escape from large groups of 5 or more pretty easy. Throw on some toughness and vitality armor and yeah, I've seen single daredevils kite an entire zerg before. If a class builds itself to survive, they can survive quiet a lot. It sounds like the person you're referring too was running a build like this. Their whole point is to make sure the waypoint is contested for their server. Most classes can do it, honestly, even without the mobility and stealth.

if u try chase a DrD who didnt attack any1 yet (meaning with no CDs yet) then ur whole blob is mentally not gucci.the DrD on other hand is kiting u all untill most turn around and will wreck every single person who falls behind cus no1 is build to deal with him.

see he cant deal with blobblob players cant deal with roamersits simply a build issue..

so u blame x class / build for being around alot in roaming scene while x class / build has no place in a blobu see all roaming people who have no place in blob fights could saywell guardians and necro's have been in blob fights since day one wouldnt it be time to nerf them?i mean why not? cus they are obviously better then other classes at it so they should be nerfed so maybe a heal druid could take over Guardians role and deadeye/daredevil could do the boons/aoe dmg from necrosounds like a solid plan no?no? exactly why crying about thief/ranger in roaming scene is not a solid plan either.

[reddie.5861]

@Andy.5981 said:

@"manu.7539" said:I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!For Ascalon!

Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

hmm thief vs ranger xD

u know there is more then just d/p thief right? it doesnt really matter to in open field ranger doesnt stand much of a chance vs thief but okay if u think so ;)ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside tower

i mean i know ranger sounds easy and it might be if ur such a fool to die to one constantly but when u face somewhat better player ull see ranger isnt all about pew pew longbow fun.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@manu.7539 said:

@"Caedmon.6798" said:

You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

But to tbh

Thief > ThiefRanger > ThiefRev > Thief

Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

Well, you may have any good counter build and master it, a thief that smell the trouble can easily run away, most class cant run away so easily from a thief, not at all! Same vs rangers. I didnt really care when they were a few out there but these days, seriously, I must stop solo roaming in a ppt purpose because whatever map I roam I meet these 2 class of roamers so often its making the game boring. Hunting thieves will be much funnier!

As for your comment about meeting two roamers, you shouldn't expect to win against two of any class. Period. If you do it's more a reflection on their lack of skill than anything. If I see there's two thieves engaging me, then unless I'm confident that I can put one down in a few seconds before the other can react, I make for the nearest tower. As should you. In the same way that if you face a server that constantly has an 80 man blob, it means you're going to have a hard time if you insist on pushing them with your 40 man group; if you're playing a server that is good at cloud tactics, and full of experienced roamers that know how to stagger bursts with each other to minimise the chance of you recovering, then you can't expect to roam freely on their maps. I have a minstrel permastealth deadeye build for two reasons; firstly for scouting the movements of the enemy group when I'm playing with my guild, and secondly because servers like Gandara are freaking good at focussing down individual players.

The main reason classes like thief and ranger are meta for roaming currently is because they can deal with groups of players mounted on warclaw. Thief can dismount and spike someone easily, and it can outrun a mounted player in most cases. A ranger can either build to dismount someone easily, or be so ridiculously tanky that it doesn't matter if people use warclaw to keep them in combat, because they never get low enough on health for it to matter. If your ele build can neither dismount someone nor deal with the pressure of one or two guys attacking you while others use warclaw to keep you in combat, then it's not going to cut it in outnumbered situations (which is most of your fights when roaming solo). If you are struggling, you need to either change your build (there is a reason that most roaming eles play with "never die" levels of sustain), get a group to roam with, or improve your play and accept that getting ganked is an occupational hazard for a glassy build. Because realistically, while I get the need to vent when something frustrates you, blaming the other guy for your failure is the primary reason you will fail to get better. Change your mindset, improve your game.

[Andy.5981]

@reddie.5861 said:

@Andy.5981 said:

@"manu.7539" said:I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!For Ascalon!

Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

hmm thief vs ranger xD

u know there is more then just d/p thief right? it doesnt really matter to in open field ranger doesnt stand much of a chance vs thief but okay if u think so ;)ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside tower

i mean i know ranger sounds easy and it might be if ur such a fool to die to one constantly but when u face somewhat better player ull see ranger isnt all about pew pew longbow fun.

I main a Ranger. Clearly the sarcasm in my post was lost on you.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@reddie.5861 said:

@Andy.5981 said:

@"manu.7539" said:I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!For Ascalon!

Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

hmm thief vs ranger xD

u know there is more then just d/p thief right? it doesnt really matter to in open field ranger doesnt stand much of a chance vs thief but okay if u think so ;)

ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside tower

i mean i know ranger sounds easy and it might be if ur such a fool to die to one constantly but when u face somewhat better player ull see ranger isnt all about pew pew longbow fun.

I think that was his point ;)

[manu.7539]

@Andy.5981 said:

@"manu.7539" said:I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!For Ascalon!

Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

I already tried my ranger and its not that new for me, went on it this morning, the easy damage is there for sure, no need of combo and blast to finally hit for 3k damage (with some luck), definitely easier. Try sword/dagger weaver then tell me ranger class isnt easy lol

Dismounted peoples on my feet 4-5 times, more in a day than in a year with my ele! Most of all, I'm hitting thieves and they cant run away so easily :bleep_bloop:

[KrHome.1920]

@reddie.5861 said:ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside towerRanger isn't easy to learn for a player, that does not know what its skills and traits do. Everyone else just notices, that ranger can have an answer to everything, that can go wrong in one build. The rest is basic game knowledge and muscle memory.

[KrHome.1920]

/doublepost for whatever reason

[reddie.5861]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@reddie.5861 said:ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside towerRanger isn't easy to learn for a player, that does not know what its skills and traits do. Everyone else just notices, that ranger can have an answer to everything, that can go wrong in one build. The rest is basic game knowledge and muscle memory.

ranger that is pure pew pew barely has cleansesranger that has ton of cleanses doesnt have huge dmgranger really doesnt have answer to everything but in WvW where majority of people think they can run in 1 straight line to their enemy, yes then ranger has answer to most people..

tbh when u run into any given class it doesnt mean u have to fight on spot where u ran into each other. u could simply kite him to spot that favors u if he doesnt like it he will leave if not u can turn the fight into ur favor.i mean i have played s/d thief vs core necro in open i cant really do much i took the guy to hilek camp in ebg and just constantly ported tru the walls if he wanted to come to me he would have had to run all the way around giving me load of time to move away anyway and if i want to go to him all i had to do was shadow step on his ass and port back when i need to.same can be done with ranger use trees i dunno force him to leave you or come closer.

ofcourse certain classes will not have what it takes to kill ranger.but if im on my thief and i force a ranger to come close to me his chance to win that fight is quite low and chance that he can run off ditching the fight is even loweri think same goes for mesmer with all projectile hate that class has and ones ur close to mesmer i doubt the ranger can just run off

[TheGrimm.5624]

@manu.7539 said:The most used class (at least in T1) these days are probably thieves and rangers. There's some good reasons for that.. rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kil u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just try sw/d weaver.. it happens to me quite often! Thieves.. are thieves, no need to explain how annoying they are! ANET devs must be aware of all that but they obviously doesnt care! How did they manage to build such a nice game but then ruined it with such a bad balance! Money talk I guess, I dont feel like ANET is worthy of my money anymore! Why should I care for a company who doesnt care about their custumers?!?

I won't question what you are seeing, but I would ask, is this because of T1. I can only speak for my server, but it seems when we move up we draw more players, the more we fall the less. In general this would also make sense since higher populations probably means you have more of your base online and playing and your potential to win increases due to coverage., therefore up you go.That also may mean more people in squads. Squads reject rangers in a lot of cases. That means they are going to be soloing more, where as in lower tiers they might be in those squads and there are less roaming. Thieves close to the same. Some tags if they can't fill with what they want will try and pull in the roaming classes which pulls them away from the spots they might roam so you see less of them.

Right now with our pairing we have been in lower tiers and would say seeing less rangers and thieves and more everyone else, but there are also less squads running around. So is the pop up or the environment different. Since ANet doesn't release stats on a regular basis can't tell. But if asked the same question I would say the ranger and thief populations seem to be in decline. So again, your mileage will vary. Good hunting!

[StarScream.9150]

sooo because people have a higher preference in a class to play it just means game = bad??? Classes shouldn't be nerfed/buffed on how popular they are.on top of that you are playing a weaver, it's kind of expected those classes are going to tear you up.If you can't beat it, join it.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Touchme.1097 said:

@fuzzyp.6295 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

Regards

I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

'Guild Wars 2 | New player tries Condi Thief PvP'

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Whatever, ppl will always jump on the most broken stuff...If A-net had decided to nerf rangers and teefs then something else would come out and people would run it like again condi mesmer or some other dragonhunter or other rev...Waste of time to even bother with this game anymore, even more if devs focus on next e-speces even though they didn't balance core/hot/pof yet...

[fuzzyp.6295]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:

@fuzzyp.6295 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

Regards

I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

'Guild Wars 2 | New player tries Condi Thief PvP'

Lol if I wanted I could make a montage of killing unranked boys with my condi weaver too, let's be serious now. Condi thieves are difficult if you can clear through their first burst they usually cant handle long term pressure. Tbh this video just speaks more to how Condi is over performing in this meta. And that sPvP and WvW are balanced differently.

[Burnfall.9573]

@fuzzyp.6295 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:

@fuzzyp.6295 said:

@Touchme.1097 said:Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

Regards

I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

'Guild Wars 2 | New player tries Condi Thief PvP'

Lol if I wanted I could make a montage of killing unranked boys with my condi weaver too, let's be serious now. Condi thieves are difficult if you can clear through their first burst they usually cant handle long term pressure. Tbh this video just speaks more to how Condi is over performing in this meta. And that sPvP and WvW are balanced differently.

+1

You are correct that Conditions are Toxic in this meta but there is an underlying issue when it comes to Toxicity/Toxic Meta in itself especially when it has been present since Guild Wars 2 beta until this day= Thief Profession

Thief Profession has been Toxic since Guild Wars 2 release and has been excused from any serious nerfs whereas other Professions since Guild Wars 2 beta has gone through many serious nerfs including conditions.

Even Condition Mesmer Profession has long gone through many nerfs since Guild Wars 2 beta and has been the scapegoat for Condition Thief Profession

(In other word, it is Mesmer Profession fault for Thief Profession Toxicity including all other Professions, so Blame them instead for all Toxic meta's including , taking away their Perma-dodge/evade because they're the only Profession who can do it)

WHERE IS THIEF PROFESSION 1 DODGE CONSEQUENCE TOO?!!

HOW DOES A DPS PROFESSION ROLE HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAP INTO A CONDITON BASE ROLE PROFESSION- NECROMANCER CONDITIONS AND EXCELL IN IT, BETTER THEVEN AN ITS HOLDER??!!

WHERE ARE NECROMANCER PROFESSION CONDITIONS?!!

Let us be serious here, isn't dealing with the root cause and removing its influences is the right approach in dealing with Toxicity?

So why 1 Profession is freely allowed and permitted to continue to be Excused, Destructive and Blameless when it comes to serious nerfs since Guild Wars 2 beta?

WHY IS MESMER PROFESSION BEING BLAMED, USED AS ITS SCAPEGOAT INSTEAD OF TACKLING WITH THE ROOT CAUSE OF ENDLESS PROFESSIONS TOXICITY?!!

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/81212/nerf-the-mesmers-for-the-love-of-pvp/p3

[Dawdler.8521]

@fuzzyp.6295 said:Tbh this video just speaks more to how Condi is over performing in this meta.If condi is over performing we would see all condi everywhere on random classes with random builds.

Yet we see specific classes and specific builds mentioned every time it's brought up.

Weird.

I mean...

Is poison warrior overperforming?