Finish the job on CC cast times

[Ovark.2514]

Outliers that still exist:Druid Glyph of Equality (0 cast time)Druid Glyph of the Tides (Hard to see and too fast cast time)Guardian Shield of Absorption: (0 cast time)Thief Slight of Hand: (Basically 0 cast time) This trait should add a cast time to steal.Replace CC with something else on shocking aura

There are others I think but these stick out to me most since many are meta.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

[Ovark.2514]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

Nope, because making traits worse to buff others when they're bad isn't how you actually make build diversity, you're just shifting the necessary trait to something you like better. This is the exact same situation with Surge of the Mists and we all know how well that turned out. Putting a cast time on an interrupt tool is just making it bad at what it's supposed to do. Also the CD reduction on steal from SoH is another reason it's always going to be picked, it's a GM trait.

Shield of Absorption needs to be left completely untouched. It does no damage and is SUPPOSED to yeet you away, it's a Get Off Me tool. Giving it a cast time completely invalidates one of its main purposes. These aren't changes for the health of the game, they're changes because you don't like dealing with them.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

giving steal cast time is stupid without heavy changes, and 1s daze for a cast time at that would make this trait unusable, entire point of steal is to start casting ->steal to teleport onto people. I could maybe see steal having a 0,25s DELAY but still no cast time, but then again 99% people would still be unable to react to that, and it would just make steal unfun to play against AND use, its shit to get stolen onto but having it shit to also use as a main mechanic is stupid

[Ovark.2514]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

Nope, because making traits worse to buff others when they're bad isn't how you actually make build diversity, you're just shifting the necessary trait to something you like better.

Who said the other options are bad? Remember how grenade kit wasn't meta before the near-global nerf? Well now it's used because other options deal less damage. I don't have any strong opinions on what should or shouldn't be meta except that I believe every build should have a place.

This is the exact same situation with Surge of the Mists and we all know how well that turned out.

People still run staff on Rev. It FEELS clunky now but only because it was instant for 5 YEARS before the change and everyone was used to it. People adapt to changes.

Putting a cast time on an interrupt tool is just making it bad at what it's supposed to do.Surge of the mists also moves the foes, and evades, so interrupting is only a bare slice of what it's actually doing.

Also the CD reduction on steal from SoH is another reason it's always going to be picked, it's a GM trait.So if it's always going to be taken thanks to the CD reduction, why are you concerned about adding a cast time? It will ALWAYS be useful and good.

Shield of Absorption needs to be left completely untouched. It does no damage and is SUPPOSED to yeet you away, it's a Get Off Me tool.It does no damage except that it can push players through Test of Faith and has consistently been used for that purpose ever since HoT. Also, it's not about whether it does damage or not; it's the principle of the thing and how it feels to fight against. It has always felt very cheesy.

These aren't changes for the health of the game, they're changes because you don't like dealing with them.

That's quite the assumption.

[Quadox.7834]

that is only for hard cc

[Ovark.2514]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

1s daze for a cast time at that would make this trait unusableNever know until you tryentire point of steal is to start casting ->steal to teleport onto people.Did anet say that somewhere? Actually, a change came into the game like a year or 2 ago that prevented Daredevils from being able to steal from a foe mid vault. Seems like anet believes that players shouldn't be able to precast a skill into steal. . . Careful not to project your preconceived notions of how a skill was INTENDED to be usedit would just make steal unfun to play against AND useHad to imagine it being unfun to play against. . . Since there would now be actual counterplay, I think it would be more fun to play against. Unfun at to USE maybe, but only if you've been playing thief a long time and are used to how it's been. Players will adapt.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

1s daze for a cast time at that would make this trait unusableNever know until you tryentire point of steal is to start casting ->steal to teleport onto people.Did anet say that somewhere? Careful not to project your preconceived notions of how a skill was INTENDED to be usedit would just make steal unfun to play against AND useHad to imagine it being unfun to play against. . . Since there would now be actual counterplay, I think it would be more fun to play against. Unfun at to USE maybe, but only if you've been playing thief a long time and are used to how it's been. Players will adapt.

it doesnt matter what is the intent of something, only how its used, and steal is used to teleport skills onto people. what devs intended has no bearing on reality untill they change it

[Ovark.2514]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

1s daze for a cast time at that would make this trait unusableNever know until you tryentire point of steal is to start casting ->steal to teleport onto people.Did anet say that somewhere? Careful not to project your preconceived notions of how a skill was INTENDED to be usedit would just make steal unfun to play against AND useHad to imagine it being unfun to play against. . . Since there would now be actual counterplay, I think it would be more fun to play against. Unfun at to USE maybe, but only if you've been playing thief a long time and are used to how it's been. Players will adapt.

it doesnt matter what is the intent of something, only how its used, and steal is used to teleport skills onto people. what devs intended has no bearing on reality untill they change it

Well then how it's used will probably shift if a cast time is added to the trait. I don't see the issue.

[Kuma.1503]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Surge of the mists also deals damage

One time I landed a perfectly spaced Surge of the Mists and landed all the hits, and they all crit for like, 17 damage.

I was like "Woah! Hold on there Anet, that's a bit much ain't it? Any more and you might deal 1/10 of a regen tick.

[Ovark.2514]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Surge of the mists also deals damage

One time I landed a perfectly spaced Surge of the Mists and landed all the hits, and they all crit for like, 17 damage.

I was like "Woah! Hold on there Anet, that's a bit much ain't it? Any more and you might deal 1/10 of a regen tick.

Oh yeah woops forgot it doesnt anymore. Brb, removing that bit. Ppl on this platform never let you get away with any little mistake huh... makes me think of WP's recent vid on the subject

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

1s daze for a cast time at that would make this trait unusableNever know until you tryentire point of steal is to start casting ->steal to teleport onto people.Did anet say that somewhere? Careful not to project your preconceived notions of how a skill was INTENDED to be usedit would just make steal unfun to play against AND useHad to imagine it being unfun to play against. . . Since there would now be actual counterplay, I think it would be more fun to play against. Unfun at to USE maybe, but only if you've been playing thief a long time and are used to how it's been. Players will adapt.

it doesnt matter what is the intent of something, only how its used, and steal is used to teleport skills onto people. what devs intended has no bearing on reality untill they change it

Well then how it's used will probably shift if a cast time is added to the trait. I don't see the issue.

no, it simply will stop being used

[Ovark.2514]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

1s daze for a cast time at that would make this trait unusableNever know until you tryentire point of steal is to start casting ->steal to teleport onto people.Did anet say that somewhere? Careful not to project your preconceived notions of how a skill was INTENDED to be usedit would just make steal unfun to play against AND useHad to imagine it being unfun to play against. . . Since there would now be actual counterplay, I think it would be more fun to play against. Unfun at to USE maybe, but only if you've been playing thief a long time and are used to how it's been. Players will adapt.

it doesnt matter what is the intent of something, only how its used, and steal is used to teleport skills onto people. what devs intended has no bearing on reality untill they change it

Well then how it's used will probably shift if a cast time is added to the trait. I don't see the issue.

no, it simply will stop being used

So your argument is: Because the playerbase uses a skill in a certain way, any changes to that skill which might hinder it's use in that way should not be added to the game. Is that right? If so, does that mean the devs can never change skills except damage numbers or cooldowns? That's basically what we've been getting for a LONG TIME and if my experiences and the forums opinions are to be believed, that is simply not good enough.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Hard nope on Steal and Shield of Absorption. Steal is an interrupt tool, with the exception of condi and no one runs the other trait, and SoA is a Get Off Me tool. I don't know enough about druid to even remember what the glyphs do.

Wouldn't you think then, that adding a cast time on steal when taking Slight of Hand would make other options more competitive? SoH has been meta for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since launch. Build diversity is important. Players will cry a lot but eventually they will adjust and the game will be healthier for it. Shield of absorption needs some kind of animation before the knockback happens so player can prepare for it. Even if the skill grants 1s of Resistance to compensate for blind, this is a necessary change for the health of the game.

Nope, because making traits worse to buff others when they're bad isn't how you actually make build diversity, you're just shifting the necessary trait to something you like better.

Who said the other options are bad? Remember how grenade kit wasn't meta before the near-global nerf? Well now it's used because other options deal less damage. I don't have any strong opinions on what should or shouldn't be meta except that I believe every build should have a place.

This is the exact same situation with Surge of the Mists and we all know how well that turned out.

People still run staff on Rev. It FEELS clunky now but only because it was instant for 5 YEARS before the change and everyone was used to it. People adapt to changes.

Putting a cast time on an interrupt tool is just making it bad at what it's supposed to do.Surge of the mists also moves the foes, and evades, so interrupting is only a bare slice of what it's actually doing.

Also the CD reduction on steal from SoH is another reason it's always going to be picked, it's a GM trait.So if it's always going to be taken thanks to the CD reduction, why are you concerned about adding a cast time? It will ALWAYS be useful and good.

Shield of Absorption needs to be left completely untouched. It does no damage and is SUPPOSED to yeet you away, it's a Get Off Me tool.It does no damage except that it can push players through Test of Faith and has consistently been used for that purpose ever since HoT. Also, it's not about whether it does damage or not; it's the principle of the thing and how it feels to fight against. It has always felt very cheesy.

These aren't changes for the health of the game, they're changes because you don't like dealing with them.

That's quite the assumption.

On mobile so format will be clunky.

Quick Pockets is bad and is never taken, and Bewildered Ambush is only used on condi builds. Nades becoming strong after a global nerf? The whole game practically got shifted.

Staff is still taken for two reasons; it's still got the best support moves with the ONLY non traited weapon cleanse skill on the entire class, and there's quite literally no other options to take. Hammer certainly isn't seeing any use outside of WvW. SotM is so clunky now it's borderline useless for anything besides a panic dodge and interrupting long things like stomps.

Again, adding a cast time and making SoH worse doesn't make the alternatives better. You're just bringing everything down. It being good for other reasons besides the Daze doesn't mean you need to touch it.

SoA pushing you through ToF is irrelevant since any CC that moves you does the same, like F1 pull or GS5, and BOTH of those can pull you out of dodge frames. The principle behind SoA is that it's a Get Off Me tool and adding a cast time goes against that principle. How something feels to fight against is relative to you. I absolutely hate fighting mesmers, they feel cheesy and extremely annoying. Doesn't mean they need to be changed to make my experience fighting them less annoying just because I don't like it.

That assumption is drawn from statements like '...how it feels to fight against. It has always felt very cheesy.'

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ovark.2514 you aint changing a skill, you are changing a trait.who in their right mind would take a trait that makes their main skill, objectively worse, its in similar boat to old elusive mind, that it was so fucking bad I would rather have NO trait that EMkeep throwing darts at a dart board, just like a broken cloak you will be right twice a day, and then you can tell told you so! and enjoy yourself.pointless nerf.

[ollbirtan.2915]

Imaging, getting tricked by the same old 'SoJ pull into ToF----push through ToF with SoA' since HoT... Has the OP mastered this combo? Any comments on making sure SoJ doesn't bug out randomly while your target casually walks away / uses a dodge through your ToF and SoA?