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WE NEED: Raid Reward Tracks


Tom.1852

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@"sorudo.9054" said:Raids are the wasted hole within PvE that used up way to much time for little use, i rather see Anet turn raids into something more friendly for the majority of the PvE crowd so the time wasted isn't lost completely.

Yea, the 3-5 people who made Raids really burned a hole into the almost 400 people large company at the time, especially since those people constantly had to step away from that content and help out elsewhere (LW, expansions, etc.). They also brought a lot of what they learned with that content back into other aspects of the game, making Raids some of the highest value addition for dev time in the game.But them being spread so thin on that content front is also what caused their release to slow down and the following rapid drops in playerbase in the first place, for which they then were deemed unsustainable to no fault of that content.

Meanwhile the massive rescourge hog LW, which sure, is played by more people (although early Raids, when they were still properly supported with a reasonable release cadence, actually had higher efficiency completion rates than some later LW episodes, so there is that), has also just a large amount of people not actually caring about the content at all and just play it because it's all there is, as filler.

Something like a LW episode takes a tremendous amount of resources, from creating large maps to writing, voice acting etc., then a large amount of players plays through it once in an hour or two and that's it, yet another soon to be ghost town.Something like a Raid or Fractal at least brings a minority hundreds of hours of high quality, highly repeatable entertainment each, while being much less to produce.

If you want to talk about a content hole that wasted way to many dev hours for way too little return, and where content design by "engagement" metrics went wrong, LW is far and wide in the lead there, as something many play but few care about.In 2019 Anet did nothing but release super easy mostly non repeatable OW content with LW, and at the same time saw record revenue drops to the game (over -25%), leading them to hastily announce another far off expansion because they realised LW, which they going by the metrics apparently wanted to entirely focus on, was just not at all carrying the game and playerbase.

As for the topic at hand, theoretically Reward Tracks are a good idea for all content at this point imo.This community has been highly trained to only really care about loot through years of highly rewarding low (gameplay) quality content (LW and such), so having that extra bar that fills up with shinies for whatever a player chooses to do could go a long way to keep people motivated.PvE tracks (be it OW, Raids, Fractals, Dungeons, etc.) would have to fill very, very slowly though or give much reduced/more minor rewards compared to PvP/WvW, as that aspect of the game already is fairly rewarding generally.Also opting into them should probably work similarly to masteries, in which case Reward Track progress then replaces Mastery or Spirit Shard progress for the time/until disabled.

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@Asum.4960 said:

@"sorudo.9054" said:Raids are the wasted hole within PvE that used up way to much time for little use, i rather see Anet turn raids into something more friendly for the majority of the PvE crowd so the time wasted isn't lost completely.

Yea, the 3-5 people who made Raids really burned a hole into the almost 400 people large company at the time, especially since those people constantly had to step away from that content and help out elsewhere (LW, expansions, etc.). They also brought a lot of what they learned with that content back into other aspects of the game, making Raids some of the highest value addition for dev time in the game.But them being spread so thin on that content front is also what caused their release to slow down and the following rapid drops in playerbase in the first place, for which they then were deemed unsustainable to no fault of that content.

Meanwhile the massive rescourge hog LW, which sure, is played by more people (although early Raids, when they were still properly supported with a reasonable release cadence, actually had higher efficiency completion rates than some later LW episodes, so there is that), has also just a large amount of people not actually caring about the content at all and just play it because it's all there is, as filler.

Something like a LW episode takes a tremendous amount of resources, from creating large maps to writing, voice acting etc., then a large amount of players plays through it once in an hour or two and that's it, yet another soon to be ghost town.Something like a Raid or Fractal at least brings a minority hundreds of hours of high quality, highly repeatable entertainment each, while being much less to produce.

If you want to talk about a content hole that wasted way to many dev hours for way too little return, and where content design by "engagement" metrics went wrong, LW is far and wide in the lead there, as something many play but few care about.In 2019 Anet did nothing but release super easy mostly non repeatable OW content with LW, and at the same time saw record revenue drops to the game (over -25%), leading them to hastily announce another far off expansion because they realised LW, which they going by the metrics apparently wanted to entirely focus on, was just not at all carrying the game and playerbase.

As for the topic at hand, theoretically Reward Tracks are a good idea for all content at this point imo.This community has been highly trained to only really care about loot through years of highly rewarding low (gameplay) quality content (LW and such), so having that extra bar that fills up with shinies for whatever a player chooses to do could go a long way to keep people motivated.PvE tracks (be it OW, Raids, Fractals, Dungeons, etc.) would have to fill very, very slowly though or give much reduced/more minor rewards compared to PvP/WvW, as that aspect of the game already is fairly rewarding generally.Also opting into them should probably work similarly to masteries, in which case Reward Track progress then replaces Mastery or Spirit Shard progress for the time/until disabled.

A nice post, so basically map rewards we have no but a easily visible track like in wvw and spvp?

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@Linken.6345 said:

@"sorudo.9054" said:Raids are the wasted hole within PvE that used up way to much time for little use, i rather see Anet turn raids into something more friendly for the majority of the PvE crowd so the time wasted isn't lost completely.

Yea, the 3-5 people who made Raids really burned a hole into the almost 400 people large company at the time, especially since those people constantly had to step away from that content and help out elsewhere (LW, expansions, etc.). They also brought a lot of what they learned with that content back into other aspects of the game, making Raids some of the highest value addition for dev time in the game.But them being spread so thin on that content front is also what caused their release to slow down and the following rapid drops in playerbase in the first place, for which they then were deemed unsustainable to no fault of that content.

Meanwhile the massive rescourge hog LW, which sure, is played by more people (although early Raids, when they were still properly supported with a reasonable release cadence, actually had higher efficiency completion rates than some later LW episodes, so there is that), has also just a large amount of people not actually caring about the content at all and just play it because it's all there is, as filler.

Something like a LW episode takes a tremendous amount of resources, from creating large maps to writing, voice acting etc., then a large amount of players plays through it once in an hour or two and that's it, yet another soon to be ghost town.Something like a Raid or Fractal at least brings a minority hundreds of hours of high quality, highly repeatable entertainment each, while being much less to produce.

If you want to talk about a content hole that wasted way to many dev hours for way too little return, and where content design by "engagement" metrics went wrong, LW is far and wide in the lead there, as something many play but few care about.In 2019 Anet did nothing but release super easy mostly non repeatable OW content with LW, and at the same time saw record revenue drops to the game (over -25%), leading them to hastily announce another far off expansion because they realised LW, which they going by the metrics apparently wanted to entirely focus on, was just not at all carrying the game and playerbase.

As for the topic at hand, theoretically Reward Tracks are a good idea for all content at this point imo.This community has been highly trained to only really care about loot through years of highly rewarding low (gameplay) quality content (LW and such), so having that extra bar that fills up with shinies for whatever a player chooses to do could go a long way to keep people motivated.PvE tracks (be it OW, Raids, Fractals, Dungeons, etc.) would have to fill very, very slowly though or give much reduced/more minor rewards compared to PvP/WvW, as that aspect of the game already is fairly rewarding generally.Also opting into them should probably work similarly to masteries, in which case Reward Track progress then replaces Mastery or Spirit Shard progress for the time/until disabled.

A nice post, so basically map rewards we have no but a easily visible track like in wvw and spvp?

Yea, it would probably be a good idea to replace the Map Bonus Reward system (which I honestly forgot existed, which maybe says something) for the more visible and easier to track and understand Reward Track system.

The Pact Scout's Mapping Materials could then also serve as PvE Reward Track "Potions" for dailies, similarly to what PvP and WvW have, which would likely make them a lot more appealing.

Reward tracks give people some agency in what goal/track they want to pursue and provide an easily trackable interface for it. In design I find them vastly superior to things like the Map Bonus Reward system or the Drizzlewood Achievement tracks.

UI wise I suppose they could be situated under the Mastery Tab in the Hero Panel, possibly locked until after reaching level 80 - serving as alternative/additional "endgame" system along the Mastery System.

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@Tom.1852 said:

@Tom.1852 said:

@"lokh.2695" said:Nah, Raid rewards are fine. I'd rather have them rework WvW or something else.

Also: "WE NEED" usually translates to "I want", keep in mind to speak for yourself.

I am speaking for about all the people i raid with. So i went with "WE NEED". Good that you think the rewards are okay, but it does seem like you didnt read fully until the end. It might be that for people that log on 2 days per week, clear all the raids and dont play anymore until next Monday the rewards appear good. But i am talking about people that log on every evening and just raid, even though they have gotten their weekly. Those rewards are abysmal, and the main issue is, you CANNOT get trans charges, you CANNOT get living world currency playing raids only.

Then why are you raiding?because it's very fun

If it's fun, why does it require more rewards? You say you speak for other people, but in that case you should consider telling them to sign in with their own accounts. Would make this more believable.

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@Yggranya.5201 said:If it's fun, why does it require more rewards? You say you speak for other people, but in that case you should consider telling them to sign in with their own accounts. Would make this more believable.

just because something is fun means we shouldnt get rewards for it? It is fun yes, but it also requires endgame gear and getting enough gear to raid with different characters/builds is expensive, sure, you can wait for all the correct raid drops to gear the next character you want and only ever buy the gear with magnetite/gaeting. But thats a very slow process and trying out new builds/classes for many people is an integral part of the game not becoming dull for them.I really wouldnt want to play a game were i only ever get rewarded for unfun content.

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@Asum.4960 said:Yea, the 3-5 people who made RaidsThe number we heard was 5-6 people. Working full-time on single wing. At the same time when there were still 2 more wings in production (wings 1-3 were developed pretty much concurrently, from what we heard, development on wing 3 started before wing 1 was finished). And there were also people that were working on raids part-time, in addition to other work (like Maclaine Diemer and his music team, who were working on raid music even though they weren't part of the raid team at all). The number of people involved in raid production was way, way bigger than just those 5-6 people.If 3-5 people were truly what raids needed for development, you can bet they would still be as actively developed as in the beginning. But it seems that Anet did eventually agree that they were, indeed, a waste of development resources compared to the gain they brought. Which is why at this moment they are abandoned.

@Linken.6345 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:Raids are the wasted hole within PvE that used up way to much time for little use, i rather see Anet turn raids into something more friendly for the majority of the PvE crowd so the time wasted isn't lost completely.

For how many hours of content it got to the people that play it, I bet living story is a bigger waste of development.That's only if you look at it in the per-player basis. Remember, though, that Living Story gives content to way, way more players than raids do.

A single recent LS chapter map meta on a single map instance, in terms of player engagement is probably worth like 5-6 full clears. And even those on less popular, older LS maps can usually end up at 1-2 full clears worth. If you add up all the metas on all LS map instancess all over week, i'm quite certain that in mumber of manhours they completely dwarf all raid activity troughout the same week.

In short: raids are there to keep engaged a very small amount of players. LS is there to keep engaged a majority of the players. The former might be argued about, but i don't see how the latter can ever be called a waste of development.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Asum.4960" said:Yea, the 3-5 people who made RaidsThe number we heard was 5-6 people. Working full-time on single wing. At the same time when there were still 2 more wings in production (wings 1-3 were developed pretty much concurrently, from what we heard, development on wing 3 started before wing 1 was finished). And there were also people that were working on raids part-time, in addition to other work (like Maclaine Diemer and his music team, who were working on raid music even though they weren't part of the raid team at all). The number of people involved in raid production was way, way bigger than just those 5-6 people.If 3-5 people were truly what raids needed for development, you can bet they would still be as actively developed as in the beginning. But it seems that Anet did eventually agree that they were, indeed, a waste of development resources compared to the gain they brought. Which is why at this moment they
are
abandoned.

Fine, 5-6 out of ~300-400 Devs at the time.And ofc there was some part time overlap like with music production, but I find it hard to imagine that those departments didn't just mostly hop in when they had time anyway to some extend (likely contributing to various further delays on Raids and such), rather than taking away from other gamemodes etc., it's not like the game is constantly getting updated with new assets, music, etc. since or before Raids were a thing.

Also Anet abandoning/barely life supporting content and systems isn't really indicative of anything at this point, since clearly they have some severe company management and game vision issues, with there being vastly more content avenues and systems being dead or on life support than actually ones still supported.It's not that Dungeons, Raids, PvP, WvW, Fractals for the most part, meaningful Masteries, seemingly now Strikes, Guild Halls, Guild Missions, Bounties and on and on and on all inherently didn't work or "weren't worth it".

Anet just did as Anet does and on a whim abandons systems and content, chasing something new which they no doubt will abandon next shortly after before ever giving it a real chance with proper funding, development and iterations.Then after many months if not years without updates, engagement with that part of the game naturally continuously drops due to lack of new content, excitement and a feeling of having a future in that content to get new people in, and then people go, "ah, yes, see - no one plays it, Anet was right to abandon it", which is just silly.

Just like barely anyone would care about or play the game for Living World if Anet just released one LW patch every 1-3 years, ofc so barely anyone plays the game for or gets into Raids, Fractal CM's etc., let alone Dungeons, Guild Missions and such, if Anet barely supports it.If Anet isn't willing to put anything into Raids, they ofc aren't going to get anything out of it either. That doesn't say anything about Raids itself though.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Anet had put in the resources to continuously drop a Raid and Fractal every 3-4 months, they would not only be alive and well but actually be a staple of GW2.I'm also fairly certain the game would be doing much better financially and population wise if they had focused more on general community building group content like Guild Missions, WvW and possibly even more intricate Bounties, along with things like Fractal and Raids, rather than just the high effort low return ~2h of non-repeatable single player (or "play alone together" OW) content every 3 months, which likely takes more resources than supporting all those abandoned repeatable community building modes combined would have taken.

It's fairly easily observable that what keeps MMO's healthy longterm is facilitating player connections and communities which then keep each other engaged, rather than some more or less single player Story DLC's now and then, and the more exclusively Anet chased that model (simply bc due to being the most supported aspect of the game it was by far the most populated), in favour of abandoned group content, the more rapidly revenue dropped.Hardly seems like a coincidence.

And btw, I'm not saying LW as a whole was/is a waste or that it instead should have been abandoned, at all. There is some great stuff in there and it absolutely has it's place as easily digestible content and filler for the masses. Putting all eggs into that basket though was imo a grave mistake, and it's no wonder everything else suffered in turn.

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@sorudo.9054 said:Raids are the wasted hole within PvE that used up way to much time for little use, i rather see Anet turn raids into something more friendly for the majority of the PvE crowd so the time wasted isn't lost completely.

Lol, most of the player who are in the raid community do each wing every week sinces years (same for pvp/wvw)Story ? Most of players only do it once.

Any gamemode that create link between community by being played for long is what really make a game healty, it's not for nothing if there is big guild of pvp/wvw/raids and silverwaste made such big boom in the gw2 community, since peopel was farming it 24h/24)

And people only do most of meta event for reward (except really special case) (don't make them less legitime for being played yes, but you can do the worst meta event but that give ton of loot and people will still play it for the loot, opposed to the raid that have a really low reward compared to other things).And even if it's on a hold, raids are not throw out of the window for now, we need to wait lws6 or the dlc to get more information on it (after the set of strike is finish).

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@"WindBlade.8749" said:Any gamemode that create link between community by being played for long is what really make a game healty, it's not for nothing if there is big guild of pvp/wvw/raids and silverwaste made such big boom in the gw2 community, since peopel was farming it 24h/24)

And creates a "toxic" cesspool. You can say that your group isn't like that, but mostly? Yeah, it is. If it was most of the playerbase, then obviously i wouldn't be here as the game wasn't made for my tastes, but since it's only a small part of the playerbase, as it is in most games, it really isn't worth the time and effort.

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@Tom.1852 said:

@"Yggranya.5201" said:If it's fun, why does it require more rewards? You say you speak for other people, but in that case you should consider telling them to sign in with their own accounts. Would make this more believable.

just because something is fun means we shouldnt get rewards for it? It is fun yes, but it also requires endgame gear and getting enough gear to raid with different characters/builds is expensive, sure, you can wait for all the correct raid drops to gear the next character you want and only ever buy the gear with magnetite/gaeting. But thats a very slow process and trying out new builds/classes for many people is an integral part of the game not becoming dull for them.I really wouldnt want to play a game were i only ever get rewarded for unfun content.

If you and your friends just want stuff, then it obviously isn't fun. If entertainment isn't what motivates you to play then, well, i don't know what to say...Besides, what "endgame gear"? Raiders always say they enjoy it/it's fun while at the same time beg to get more and better rewards, and i'm just disillusioned by all your BS.

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@Yggranya.5201 said:

@"WindBlade.8749" said:Any gamemode that create link between community by being played for long is what really make a game healty, it's not for nothing if there is big guild of pvp/wvw/raids and silverwaste made such big boom in the gw2 community, since peopel was farming it 24h/24)

And creates a "toxic" cesspool. You can say that your group isn't like that, but mostly? Yeah, it is. If it was most of the playerbase, then obviously i wouldn't be here as the game wasn't made for my tastes, but since it's only a small part of the playerbase, as it is in most games, it really isn't worth the time and effort.

toxic definition : very harmful or unpleasant in a pervasive or insidious way.Hum i rarely see that in raid, maybe sometime in wvw/pvp but rarely in pve HL.

Btw openworld is way more toxic than you think, just see the chat after a failed meta event. Ofc it's happend less since some people are carying all the work.> @Yggranya.5201 said:

@Tom.1852 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:If it's fun, why does it require more rewards? You say you speak for other people, but in that case you should consider telling them to sign in with their own accounts. Would make this more believable.

just because something is fun means we shouldnt get rewards for it? It is fun yes, but it also requires endgame gear and getting enough gear to raid with different characters/builds is expensive, sure, you can wait for all the correct raid drops to gear the next character you want and only ever buy the gear with magnetite/gaeting. But thats a very slow process and trying out new builds/classes for many people is an integral part of the game not becoming dull for them.I really wouldnt want to play a game were i only ever get rewarded for unfun content.

If you and your friends just want stuff, then it obviously isn't fun. If entertainment isn't what motivates you to play then, well, i don't know what to say...Besides, what "endgame gear"? Raiders always say they enjoy it/it's fun while at the same time beg to get more and better rewards, and i'm just disillusioned by all your BS.

If you love a gamemode, but the gamemode reward are not that great compared to the others, even if you still play it without any change you will still ask for more reward sometime, specialy since raids are way harder than openworld

For the reward track itself, it's will be a good idea, the cm rewards are a joke honestly for the time spend on it and the fact you can't farm it (opposed to any meta event).Guess that even if it's implemented ti's will be a simple thing like dungeon one but i'm fine with it.

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@Yggranya.5201 said:

@"WindBlade.8749" said:Any gamemode that create link between community by being played for long is what really make a game healty, it's not for nothing if there is big guild of pvp/wvw/raids and silverwaste made such big boom in the gw2 community, since peopel was farming it 24h/24)

And creates a "toxic" cesspool. You can say that your group isn't like that, but mostly? Yeah, it is. If it was most of the playerbase, then obviously i wouldn't be here as the game wasn't made for my tastes, but since it's only a small part of the playerbase, as it is in most games, it really isn't worth the time and effort.

Each gamemode generates toxicity.Meta-event fails or doesn't work the way people want it to? Toxic chat!Story content is not the way some people like it. Too hard, too complicated? Toxic forum posts.Lion's Arch is often a celebration of toxicity xD.

Sorry, but what is the meaning of that. It is not the gamemode that creates Toxic People.Because in the end everybody attracts what he wants.

I have experienced btw in my 4-5 years GW2 more toxic behavior in meta-events than in the years I have raided weekly ^^. Among them also often with PUG's.And I got to know some great people. The people who were toxic in the end were not the people who wanted to invest in raids because they enjoy it. But the casuals who just wanted to have a look and it wasn't what they were used to. But such things were ignored and kicked. Very simple.

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@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Tom.1852 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:If it's fun, why does it require more rewards? You say you speak for other people, but in that case you should consider telling them to sign in with their own accounts. Would make this more believable.

just because something is fun means we shouldnt get rewards for it? It is fun yes, but it also requires endgame gear and getting enough gear to raid with different characters/builds is expensive, sure, you can wait for all the correct raid drops to gear the next character you want and only ever buy the gear with magnetite/gaeting. But thats a very slow process and trying out new builds/classes for many people is an integral part of the game not becoming dull for them.I really wouldnt want to play a game were i only ever get rewarded for unfun content.

If you and your friends just want stuff, then it obviously isn't fun. If entertainment isn't what motivates you to play then, well, i don't know what to say...Besides, what "endgame gear"? Raiders always say they enjoy it/it's fun while at the same time beg to get more and better rewards, and i'm just disillusioned by all your BS.

Okay, let's just cut the whole loot in half in the OpenWorld.Let's see how people find this :D.Oh and do not forget. Let's ask anet to set it so that you only get each loot once a week.

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@"Tom.1852" said:

Maybe they assume the average raid player gets their clear and then farms daily fracs and open world events for the rest of the week?

Yes. I get my full clear at monday and get my full clear (alt acc) at tuesday. That's enough for me in a week, coz I have many other things to do in game. Daily fractals, yes. Open world events, yes. Achi, yes. PvP and WwW? Sure. Why not? There is alot of fun content. GW2 is not only about raids. This is a huge world with alot activity, you know it?

If you want more raids with loot - get more alt accounts.And stop saying "WE NEED" with caps on behalf of few people.

@"Tom.1852" said:

And i think we deserve more, some people probably do 3-4 Full Clears a week, and by experience, those people will slowly get burned out, maybe they even make less gold from raids than they spend because they are sitting around with expensive food on 24/7, and that just feels unfair.

Why are they sitting around with food on 24/7? It looks so strange. I use food only in raids. Everyone I know does the same. Because even 3-4 fc takes several hours. Or you just sitting there at the LA aerodrome with your "expensive food on 24/7" and "slowly get burned out"? So you dont need raids 24/7 - you just need endless food tonic or something :D

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@Mayga.7241 said:Yes. I get my full clear at monday and get my full clear (alt acc) at tuesday. That's enough for me in a week, coz I have many other things to do in game. Daily fractals, yes. Open world events, yes. Achi, yes. PvP and WwW? Sure. Why not? There is alot of fun content. GW2 is not only about raids. This is a huge world with alot activity, you know it?

Very happy that all this content is fun to you, so youre saying the solution for the people i play with is to just stop playing whats fun for them with no rewards beyond the first clear each week and play gamemodes they dont enjoy, how could i have not considered that. such an easy fix thanks.

Also you should try skydiving, professional racing, collecting antique furniture and hunting elks, it is a big world with alot to do, you know it?

@Mayga.7241 said:Why are they sitting around with food on 24/7? It looks so strange. I use food only in raids. Everyone I know does the same. Because even 3-4 fc takes several hours. Or you just sitting there at the LA aerodrome with your "expensive food on 24/7" and "slowly get burned out"? So you dont need raids 24/7 - you just need endless food tonic or something :D

probably because they only raid? Sometimes you join pugs for one boss kill, you leave and you look for the next pug to join? Theres also alot of downtime in raids when people leave quickly and its takes a while to find the rest

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@Yggranya.5201 said:

@"WindBlade.8749" said:Any gamemode that create link between community by being played for long is what really make a game healty, it's not for nothing if there is big guild of pvp/wvw/raids and silverwaste made such big boom in the gw2 community, since peopel was farming it 24h/24)

And creates a "toxic" cesspool. You can say that your group isn't like that, but mostly? Yeah, it is. If it was most of the playerbase, then obviously i wouldn't be here as the game wasn't made for my tastes, but since it's only a small part of the playerbase, as it is in most games, it really isn't worth the time and effort.

Nah, you can say that it's "mostly like this", but it's not. It's just that it seems casual players are less likely to create their own squads and expect other players to fill in their content niche (or however we'd want to label it), then they complain that in lfg there are only tryhards and high req squads. You want a squad with your type of players and your requirements (or lack of them)? Then make your squad with appropriate description and people will join without you having to deal with tryhards or that "toxic cesspool".

And if I understand the context correctly, you're complaining about the replayable/farmable/grindable content... in mmorpg? That doesn't make much sense.

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@Tom.1852 said:

@"lokh.2695" said:Nah, Raid rewards are fine. I'd rather have them rework WvW or something else.

Also: "WE NEED" usually translates to "I want", keep in mind to speak for yourself.

I am speaking for about all the people i raid with. So i went with "WE NEED". Good that you think the rewards are okay, but it does seem like you didnt read fully until the end. It might be that for people that log on 2 days per week, clear all the raids and dont play anymore until next Monday the rewards appear good. But i am talking about people that log on every evening and just raid, even though they have gotten their weekly. Those rewards are abysmal, and the main issue is, you CANNOT get trans charges, you CANNOT get living world currency playing raids only.

Doesn't really matter who you speak for, it's not a need, it's a want. I mean, it's arguable PVE content needs reward tracks because those reward tracks were intended for non-PVE content for reasons not applicable to PVE to begin with. Raid reward tracks defeat the whole reason you have raid lock outs in the first place ... so the idea isn't well conceived or in line with the content.

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Of course raids will go down the same route as dungeons. This much should be obvious to anyone. ArenaNet decided to forgo further work on new content similarly to how they decided to give up on dungeons in the past. There will be nobody left playing raids other than a bunch of newbies wanting to but ultimately unable to acquire those exclusive rewards, again, just like with dungeons. ArenaNet might eventually give in to the complaints and make those rewards less exclusive or turn raids into some soloable thing. Well, maybe in a few years after raids have fully died.

The raiding environment has been changing for a long time now. There are less statics and veterans by the day. People talk about how now we can focus on content for everyone. Who is that "everyone" we are talking about? There is no content that works for everyone.What do the raid veterans move on to? Fractals? Most of them lost interest in Fractals long before they stopped playing raids. Open World or Strikes? Good joke. PvP and WvW? Some might if they play PvP modes, lots of people don't. Most of these players simply quit the game.I am not trying to sound whiny here. Choices need to be made and some players will always be left behind no matter what they do. They probably decided to refocus on more profitable parts of the game. We shall see how things turn out.

Short version: No amount of reward changes will ever fix the issues caused by a severe lack of new content in PvE.

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@"Tom.1852" said:It is fun yes, but it also requires endgame gear and getting enough gear to raid with different characters/builds is expensive, sure, you can wait for all the correct raid drops to gear the next character you want and only ever buy the gear with magnetite/gaeting. But thats a very slow process and trying out new builds/classes for many people is an integral part of the game not becoming dull for them.

I am not against increasing the rewards in-game, but you can start raiding with exotic gear and if you raid regularly, you have one of the best in-game sources of ascended gear (and some legendary gear). If you call that "a very slow process" I guess you have not played the other parts of GW2 a lot.

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