Where is our elite shout?

[sneakytails.5629]

We have physical, a signet, meditation, and banner. Where art thou shout?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@sneakytails.5629 said:We have physical, a signet, meditation, and banner. Where art thou shout?

Not every utility has an elite. There is no Elite Necro signet, nor an elite Engi gadget for instance.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@sneakytails.5629 said:We have physical, a signet, meditation, and banner. Where art thou shout?

Not every utility has an elite. There is no Elite Necro signet, nor an elite Engi gadget for instance.

This is only true for Core specialisations, and something that contributes to imbalances with Elite specs. They never even finished the Core specs but expect players to use them over the Elite specs, and it just never made much sense at all.

[Smoosh.2718]

This was going to be the elite shout if i get this right:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22I_Will_Avenge_You!%22

Tiny bit of a rework on what this shout does, and I'd say it would be an easy addon.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@sneakytails.5629 said:We have physical, a signet, meditation, and banner. Where art thou shout?

Not every utility has an elite. There is no Elite Necro signet, nor an elite Engi gadget for instance.

I actually feel the reverse, they should have elite skills associated with them so that traits revolving around them could have an elite to play with.

[Arklite.4013]

@"Smoosh.2718" said:This was going to be the elite shout if i get this right:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22I_Will_Avenge_You!%22

Tiny bit of a rework on what this shout does, and I'd say it would be an easy addon.

This would be a cute but incredibly niche skill in its current iteration. Looks like they just wrapped it up into the battle standard and made it require fewer hoops to jump through in order to be a valuable skill. Having some sort of condition attached to the impactful part of the skill is generally outside of their game design. I wonder what they could repurpose this skill to do? The only thing I could think of is maybe what Guardian's Feel My Wrath already does, or like a rapid health regen aura for a few seconds around the caster or something.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"sneakytails.5629" said:We have physical, a signet, meditation, and banner. Where art thou shout?

Not every utility has an elite. There is no Elite Necro signet, nor an elite Engi gadget for instance.

I actually feel the reverse, they should have elite skills associated with them so that traits revolving around them could have an elite to play with.

I was commenting on the state of the game and not giving my opinion on the matter. There SHOULD be elites for every skill type, and there SHOULD be a heal for skill type as well.

For instance with Banners, move Banner of Tactics to the heal slot, make it heal in the area when summoned (~5k at 0 healing power), make it pulse healing in its area of effect (something like 500HP at 0 healing power), each pulse removes 1 condi. Double Standards would double the pulse heal and condi clear for the warrior only. make it last 5s on a 30s CD and the recharge is not refreshed when you pick it up.

A Shout elite should have been "Feel My Wrath!" but they gave that to guardians... So I'd settle for something like "We're Unstoppable!": Grant 3k barrier and 4s of protection, retaliation, and regeneration to allies around you with an ammo system, 2 charges, 15s CD between charges, CD of 45s per charge. Breaks stuns for allies affected.

[Kodama.6453]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@sneakytails.5629 said:We have physical, a signet, meditation, and banner. Where art thou shout?

Not every utility has an elite. There is no Elite Necro signet, nor an elite Engi gadget for instance.

I actually feel the reverse, they should have elite skills associated with them so that traits revolving around them could have an elite to play with.

Once again I have to mention that my main class, engineer, is hindering this.

Engineer just has 4 different utility skill types (elixir, gadget, turret, kit), unlike the other classes (with the exception of revenant, because of the legend mechanic), which all have 5 different skill types.

Introducing healing skills and elite skills for every skill type would leave engineer at an disadvantage, since we would just gain 1 new elite gadget. All the other classes would gain 1 new healing skill and 2 new elite skills.

So I doubt that they are ever going to add these elite skills.

[Kodama.6453]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"sneakytails.5629" said:We have physical, a signet, meditation, and banner. Where art thou shout?

Not every utility has an elite. There is no Elite Necro signet, nor an elite Engi gadget for instance.

I actually feel the reverse, they should have elite skills associated with them so that traits revolving around them could have an elite to play with.

I was commenting on the state of the game and not giving my opinion on the matter. There SHOULD be elites for every skill type, and there SHOULD be a heal for skill type as well.

For instance with Banners, move Banner of Tactics to the heal slot, make it heal in the area when summoned (~5k at 0 healing power), make it pulse healing in its area of effect (something like 500HP at 0 healing power), each pulse removes 1 condi. Double Standards would double the pulse heal and condi clear for the warrior only. make it last 5s on a 30s CD and the recharge is not refreshed when you pick it up.

A Shout elite should have been "Feel My Wrath!" but they gave that to guardians... So I'd settle for something like "We're Unstoppable!": Grant 3k barrier and 4s of protection, retaliation, and regeneration to allies around you with an ammo system, 2 charges, 15s CD between charges, CD of 45s per charge. Breaks stuns for allies affected.

This system would be unfair for engineer, since that class would just gain 1 new elite skill (gadget), while all the other classes gain 1 new healing skill and 2 new elite skills.

[Lonami.2987]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"sneakytails.5629" said:We have physical, a signet, meditation, and banner. Where art thou shout?

Not every utility has an elite. There is no Elite Necro signet, nor an elite Engi gadget for instance.

I actually feel the reverse, they should have elite skills associated with them so that traits revolving around them could have an elite to play with.

I was commenting on the state of the game and not giving my opinion on the matter. There SHOULD be elites for every skill type, and there SHOULD be a heal for skill type as well.

For instance with Banners, move Banner of Tactics to the heal slot, make it heal in the area when summoned (~5k at 0 healing power), make it pulse healing in its area of effect (something like 500HP at 0 healing power), each pulse removes 1 condi. Double Standards would double the pulse heal and condi clear for the warrior only. make it last 5s on a 30s CD and the recharge is not refreshed when you pick it up.

A Shout elite should have been "Feel My Wrath!" but they gave that to guardians... So I'd settle for something like "We're Unstoppable!": Grant 3k barrier and 4s of protection, retaliation, and regeneration to allies around you with an ammo system, 2 charges, 15s CD between charges, CD of 45s per charge. Breaks stuns for allies affected.

This system would be unfair for engineer, since that class would just gain 1 new elite skill (gadget), while all the other classes gain 1 new healing skill and 2 new elite skills.

I don't see any problem there, engineer just has too many skills for some types (5 utility per type instead of 4), but the final numbers are the same as the other professions (27 slot skills). Easiest way to solve this? Remove a few skills, and introduce a new skill type.

For example, preparation, using mines, bombs, and other explosives. These would replace the following skills:

• Gadget: Throw Mine ➡ Used as the reference.
• Kit: Bomb Kit ➡ Bundle skills adapted into various mines.
• Elixir: Elixir C ➡ Converted into a support mine/bomb.
• Turret: Rocket Turret ➡ Buff it and replace the Supply Crate elite with it. Update all turrets to be dropped in the same style as the Supply Crate.

That would fix the problem in a quick and clean way. If you want to go further, personally, I would remove the tool belt altogether (moving its skills to the parent skills, either by merging them or by turning them into sequence skills), and move the kits into the mechanic bar, to be equipped and used similarly to revenant legends and firebrand tomes. If you're interested on discussing this further, more ideas on engineer redesigns here.

Anyway, engineers aren't the only ones with "problems". Mesmer uses two weapon skill types (clone and phantasm) for 4 of its utility skills, but there aren't any traits directly affecting them, so they can be reclassified as illusion.

Revenant is the worst case, since instead of 27 slot skills, it only has 20. There's two ways to fix this:

• Add a new legend to core revenant. Personally, I would go with Bonfaaz Burntfur, completing the trifecta of demonic servants connected to Abaddon. The skill type would be called Legendary Hierophant Stance, and work like Ventari's Tablet, using the Cauldron of Searing and offensive abilities instead, the elite being a reenactment of the Searing itself.
• Allow replacement of one specific skill per legend through traits, or just add a new utility skill to choose from for every legend.

For the other 6 professions, some skills would need reclassifying and a few minor changes, but that would be all of it.

[Kodama.6453]

@"Lonami.2987" said:I don't see any problem there, engineer just has too many skills for some types (5 utility per type instead of 4), but the final numbers are the same as the other professions (27 slot skills). Easiest way to solve this? Remove a few skills, and introduce a new skill type.

For example, preparation, using mines, bombs, and other explosives. These would replace the following skills:

• Gadget: Throw Mine ➡ Used as the reference.
• Kit: Bomb Kit ➡ Bundle skills adapted into various mines.
• Elixir: Elixir C ➡ Converted into a support mine/bomb.
• Turret: Rocket Turret ➡ Buff it and replace the Supply Crate elite with it. Update all turrets to be dropped in the same style as the Supply Crate.

That would fix the problem in a quick and clean way. If you want to go further, personally, I would remove the tool belt altogether (moving its skills to the parent skills, either by merging them or by turning them into sequence skills), and move the kits into the mechanic bar, to be equipped and used similarly to revenant legends and firebrand tomes. If you're interested on discussing this further, more ideas on engineer redesigns here.

Anyway, engineers aren't the only ones with "problems". Mesmer uses two weapon skill types (clone and phantasm) for 4 of its utility skills, but there aren't any traits directly affecting them, so they can be reclassified as illusion.

Revenant is the worst case, since instead of 27 slot skills, it only has 20. There's two ways to fix this:

• Add a new legend to core revenant. Personally, I would go with Bonfaaz Burntfur, completing the trifecta of demonic servants connected to Abaddon. The skill type would be called Legendary Hierophant Stance, and work like Ventari's Tablet, using the Cauldron of Searing and offensive abilities instead, the elite being a reenactment of the Searing itself.
• Allow replacement of one specific skill per legend through traits, or just add a new utility skill to choose from for every legend.

For the other 6 professions, some skills would need reclassifying and a few minor changes, but that would be all of it.

This is a possible solution, but it requires quite alot of workload since they would have to design an entire new utility category for engineer. Also keep in mind that they additionally have to design toolbelt skills for all of these.

And the decision which utility skills to replace is not that easy. From your examples, I disagree with quite alot of your choices.

• Bomb kit: Utilised in PvE power holo builds (rifle holo) as well as in WvW power scrapper builds for blob fights. Also holds the strongest core power damage auto attack for engineer, hence it is used as a filler while skills are on cooldown for rifle holo. Would feel terrible to let this kit go. Better choice for me would be (if I have to let a kit go) the tool kit. Don't see alot of people taking it anymore, mostly just saw it utilised in static discharge builds, but these gained new options for toolbelt skills, like from photon wall.
• Elixir C: Literally the only condition cleanse option from the elixir utility skill type, why would you want to let this one go? I use it fairly often myself. Elixir R would be my choice, actually don't see this one being used except for some healing scrapper builds, but healing scrapper has the function gyro to rezz people already. Rezz skills in general are not well received from the community anyway.
• Throw mine: Our only boon removal. I know you want create a new skill category which probably takes that function, but my disagreement is linked to the next point I want to talk about.

Having a set of mines as preparations wouldn't really be great in my opinion. Engineer already has quite alot of explosives, making another utility skill type that is just different variations of mines feels bad thematically.

Preparations can be a great skill category for engineer, but I would be a bit more creative with it than just having different types of mines. Like having a container of elixirs you place and if you activate it, it spreads fumes which apply conditions on enemies and boons on allies. Or having a trap with drills coming out from the ground to damage the enemy.

Sure, one preparations can be a mine, but all of them?Side note: If they finally come by to change turrets (which is LONG overdue), it would be great if they could change one of the turrets into a condition focused one. Flame turret being the only condition based turret while we have 3 turrets based on power damage (rifle, rocket, thumper) feels bad.

[Lonami.2987]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Lonami.2987" said:I don't see any problem there, engineer just has too many skills for some types (5 utility per type instead of 4), but the final numbers are the same as the other professions (27 slot skills). Easiest way to solve this? Remove a few skills, and introduce a new skill type.

For example,

preparation

, using mines, bombs, and other explosives. These would replace the following skills:

• Gadget:
  Throw Mine
  ➡ Used as the reference.
• Kit:
  Bomb Kit
  ➡ Bundle skills adapted into various mines.
• Elixir:
  Elixir C
  ➡ Converted into a support mine/bomb.
• Turret:
  Rocket Turret
  ➡ Buff it and replace the Supply Crate elite with it. Update all turrets to be dropped in the same style as the Supply Crate.

That would fix the problem in a quick and clean way. If you want to go further, personally, I would remove the tool belt altogether (moving its skills to the parent skills, either by merging them or by turning them into sequence skills), and move the kits into the mechanic bar, to be equipped and used similarly to revenant legends and firebrand tomes. If you're interested on discussing this further,

more ideas on engineer redesigns here

.

Anyway, engineers aren't the only ones with "problems". Mesmer uses two weapon skill types (

clone

and

phantasm

) for 4 of its utility skills, but there aren't any traits directly affecting them, so they can be reclassified as

illusion

.

Revenant is the worst case, since instead of 27 slot skills, it only has 20. There's two ways to fix this:

• Add a new legend to core revenant. Personally, I would go with
  Bonfaaz Burntfur
  , completing the trifecta of demonic servants connected to Abaddon. The skill type would be called Legendary Hierophant Stance, and work like
  Ventari's Tablet
  , using the
  Cauldron of Searing
  and offensive abilities instead, the elite being a reenactment of
  the Searing
  itself.
• Allow replacement of one specific skill per legend through traits, or just add a new utility skill to choose from for every legend.

For the other 6 professions, some skills would need reclassifying and a few minor changes, but that would be all of it.

This is a possible solution, but it requires quite alot of workload since they would have to design an entire new utility category for engineer. Also keep in mind that they additionally have to design toolbelt skills for all of these.

And the decision which utility skills to replace is not that easy. From your examples, I disagree with quite alot of your choices.

• Bomb kit: Utilised in PvE power holo builds (rifle holo) as well as in WvW power scrapper builds for blob fights. Also holds the strongest core power damage auto attack for engineer, hence it is used as a filler while skills are on cooldown for rifle holo. Would feel terrible to let this kit go. Better choice for me would be (if I
  have
  to let a kit go) the tool kit. Don't see alot of people taking it anymore, mostly just saw it utilised in static discharge builds, but these gained new options for toolbelt skills, like from photon wall.
• Elixir C: Literally the only condition cleanse option from the elixir utility skill type, why would you want to let this one go? I use it fairly often myself. Elixir R would be my choice, actually don't see this one being used except for some healing scrapper builds, but healing scrapper has the function gyro to rezz people already. Rezz skills in general are not well received from the community anyway.
• Throw mine: Our only boon removal. I know you want create a new skill category which probably takes that function, but my disagreement is linked to the next point I want to talk about.

Having a set of mines as preparations wouldn't really be great in my opinion. Engineer already has quite alot of explosives, making another utility skill type that is just different variations of mines feels bad thematically.

Preparations can be a great skill category for engineer, but I would be a bit more creative with it than just having different types of mines. Like having a container of elixirs you place and if you activate it, it spreads fumes which apply conditions on enemies and boons on allies. Or having a trap with drills coming out from the ground to damage the enemy.

Sure, one preparations can be a mine, but all of them?Side note: If they finally come by to change turrets (which is LONG overdue), it would be great if they could change one of the turrets into a condition focused one. Flame turret being the only condition based turret while we have 3 turrets based on power damage (rifle, rocket, thumper) feels bad.

After soulbeast and weaver, I can't take the "it's too much work" argument seriously anymore. The amount of new skills those two got (many which will never get used enough) is staggering. If they could dedicate so many resources for that, they can give the other professions some love too.

• I would buff grenades to replace the bomb kit's role. I think the Tool Kit is useless (I'd rather replace it with main-hand mace and weapon swap) but we're talking about "converting" the current skills into something else, and bomb kit is perfect for that.
• Elixir C is just turned into a mine, the effect would remain the same.
• Boon removal of throw mine would still remove boons, nothing changes there.

Not sure why mine variations would feel bad, gyros work that way already. The "place and activate remotely" gameplay can be pretty interesting as well. The mines themselves could have an effect radius, and a smaller automatic activation radius for when enemies step on them. They could be invisible once placed, but players could detect them using reveal. As you see, they can be pretty interesting.

The Mine Kit was a thing once upon a time too, pity it was scrapped instead of improved.

[Kodama.6453]

@Lonami.2987 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:I don't see any problem there, engineer just has too many skills for some types (5 utility per type instead of 4), but the final numbers are the same as the other professions (27 slot skills). Easiest way to solve this? Remove a few skills, and introduce a new skill type.

For example,

preparation

, using mines, bombs, and other explosives. These would replace the following skills:

• Gadget:
  Throw Mine
  ➡ Used as the reference.
• Kit:
  Bomb Kit
  ➡ Bundle skills adapted into various mines.
• Elixir:
  Elixir C
  ➡ Converted into a support mine/bomb.
• Turret:
  Rocket Turret
  ➡ Buff it and replace the Supply Crate elite with it. Update all turrets to be dropped in the same style as the Supply Crate.

That would fix the problem in a quick and clean way. If you want to go further, personally, I would remove the tool belt altogether (moving its skills to the parent skills, either by merging them or by turning them into sequence skills), and move the kits into the mechanic bar, to be equipped and used similarly to revenant legends and firebrand tomes. If you're interested on discussing this further,

more ideas on engineer redesigns here

.

Anyway, engineers aren't the only ones with "problems". Mesmer uses two weapon skill types (

clone

and

phantasm

) for 4 of its utility skills, but there aren't any traits directly affecting them, so they can be reclassified as

illusion

.

Revenant is the worst case, since instead of 27 slot skills, it only has 20. There's two ways to fix this:

• Add a new legend to core revenant. Personally, I would go with
  Bonfaaz Burntfur
  , completing the trifecta of demonic servants connected to Abaddon. The skill type would be called Legendary Hierophant Stance, and work like
  Ventari's Tablet
  , using the
  Cauldron of Searing
  and offensive abilities instead, the elite being a reenactment of
  the Searing
  itself.
• Allow replacement of one specific skill per legend through traits, or just add a new utility skill to choose from for every legend.

For the other 6 professions, some skills would need reclassifying and a few minor changes, but that would be all of it.

This is a possible solution, but it requires quite alot of workload since they would have to design an entire new utility category for engineer. Also keep in mind that they additionally have to design toolbelt skills for all of these.

And the decision which utility skills to replace is not that easy. From your examples, I disagree with quite alot of your choices.

• Bomb kit: Utilised in PvE power holo builds (rifle holo) as well as in WvW power scrapper builds for blob fights. Also holds the strongest core power damage auto attack for engineer, hence it is used as a filler while skills are on cooldown for rifle holo. Would feel terrible to let this kit go. Better choice for me would be (if I
  have
  to let a kit go) the tool kit. Don't see alot of people taking it anymore, mostly just saw it utilised in static discharge builds, but these gained new options for toolbelt skills, like from photon wall.
• Elixir C: Literally the only condition cleanse option from the elixir utility skill type, why would you want to let this one go? I use it fairly often myself. Elixir R would be my choice, actually don't see this one being used except for some healing scrapper builds, but healing scrapper has the function gyro to rezz people already. Rezz skills in general are not well received from the community anyway.
• Throw mine: Our only boon removal. I know you want create a new skill category which probably takes that function, but my disagreement is linked to the next point I want to talk about.

Having a set of mines as preparations wouldn't really be great in my opinion. Engineer already has quite alot of explosives, making another utility skill type that is just different variations of mines feels bad thematically.

Preparations can be a great skill category for engineer, but I would be a bit more creative with it than just having different types of mines. Like having a container of elixirs you place and if you activate it, it spreads fumes which apply conditions on enemies and boons on allies. Or having a trap with drills coming out from the ground to damage the enemy.

Sure, one preparations can be a mine, but all of them?Side note: If they finally come by to change turrets (which is LONG overdue), it would be great if they could change one of the turrets into a condition focused one. Flame turret being the only condition based turret while we have 3 turrets based on power damage (rifle, rocket, thumper) feels bad.

After soulbeast and weaver, I can't take the "it's too much work" argument seriously anymore. The amount of new skills those two got (many which will never get used enough) is staggering. If they could dedicate so many resources for that, they can give the other professions some love too.

• I would buff grenades to replace the bomb kit's role. I think the Tool Kit is useless (I'd rather replace it with main-hand mace and weapon swap) but we're talking about "converting" the current skills into something else, and bomb kit is perfect for that.
• Elixir C is just turned into a mine, the effect would remain the same.
• Boon removal of throw mine would still remove boons, nothing changes there.

Not sure why mine variations would feel bad, gyros work that way already. The "place and activate remotely" gameplay can be pretty interesting as well. The mines themselves could have an effect radius, and a smaller automatic activation radius for when enemies step on them. They could be invisible once placed, but players could detect them using reveal. As you see, they can be pretty interesting.

The

Mine Kit

was a thing once upon a time too, pity it was scrapped instead of improved.

I am talking about just having different kinds of mines being uninteresting visually and thematically.With their crafty nature, engineer could make so many different kinds of preparations, like I explained. Devices to spread fumes, drills, explosives, teleport devices, etc.

And especially since engineer is already so loaded with different explosives, having an entire category just being different mines exploding for various effects doesn't really excite me.

[Lonami.2987]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:I don't see any problem there, engineer just has too many skills for some types (5 utility per type instead of 4), but the final numbers are the same as the other professions (27 slot skills). Easiest way to solve this? Remove a few skills, and introduce a new skill type.

For example,

preparation

, using mines, bombs, and other explosives. These would replace the following skills:

• Gadget:
  Throw Mine
  ➡ Used as the reference.
• Kit:
  Bomb Kit
  ➡ Bundle skills adapted into various mines.
• Elixir:
  Elixir C
  ➡ Converted into a support mine/bomb.
• Turret:
  Rocket Turret
  ➡ Buff it and replace the Supply Crate elite with it. Update all turrets to be dropped in the same style as the Supply Crate.

That would fix the problem in a quick and clean way. If you want to go further, personally, I would remove the tool belt altogether (moving its skills to the parent skills, either by merging them or by turning them into sequence skills), and move the kits into the mechanic bar, to be equipped and used similarly to revenant legends and firebrand tomes. If you're interested on discussing this further,

more ideas on engineer redesigns here

.

Anyway, engineers aren't the only ones with "problems". Mesmer uses two weapon skill types (

clone

and

phantasm

) for 4 of its utility skills, but there aren't any traits directly affecting them, so they can be reclassified as

illusion

.

Revenant is the worst case, since instead of 27 slot skills, it only has 20. There's two ways to fix this:

• Add a new legend to core revenant. Personally, I would go with
  Bonfaaz Burntfur
  , completing the trifecta of demonic servants connected to Abaddon. The skill type would be called Legendary Hierophant Stance, and work like
  Ventari's Tablet
  , using the
  Cauldron of Searing
  and offensive abilities instead, the elite being a reenactment of
  the Searing
  itself.
• Allow replacement of one specific skill per legend through traits, or just add a new utility skill to choose from for every legend.

For the other 6 professions, some skills would need reclassifying and a few minor changes, but that would be all of it.

This is a possible solution, but it requires quite alot of workload since they would have to design an entire new utility category for engineer. Also keep in mind that they additionally have to design toolbelt skills for all of these.

And the decision which utility skills to replace is not that easy. From your examples, I disagree with quite alot of your choices.

• Bomb kit: Utilised in PvE power holo builds (rifle holo) as well as in WvW power scrapper builds for blob fights. Also holds the strongest core power damage auto attack for engineer, hence it is used as a filler while skills are on cooldown for rifle holo. Would feel terrible to let this kit go. Better choice for me would be (if I
  have
  to let a kit go) the tool kit. Don't see alot of people taking it anymore, mostly just saw it utilised in static discharge builds, but these gained new options for toolbelt skills, like from photon wall.
• Elixir C: Literally the only condition cleanse option from the elixir utility skill type, why would you want to let this one go? I use it fairly often myself. Elixir R would be my choice, actually don't see this one being used except for some healing scrapper builds, but healing scrapper has the function gyro to rezz people already. Rezz skills in general are not well received from the community anyway.
• Throw mine: Our only boon removal. I know you want create a new skill category which probably takes that function, but my disagreement is linked to the next point I want to talk about.

Having a set of mines as preparations wouldn't really be great in my opinion. Engineer already has quite alot of explosives, making another utility skill type that is just different variations of mines feels bad thematically.

Preparations can be a great skill category for engineer, but I would be a bit more creative with it than just having different types of mines. Like having a container of elixirs you place and if you activate it, it spreads fumes which apply conditions on enemies and boons on allies. Or having a trap with drills coming out from the ground to damage the enemy.

Sure, one preparations can be a mine, but all of them?Side note: If they finally come by to change turrets (which is LONG overdue), it would be great if they could change one of the turrets into a condition focused one. Flame turret being the only condition based turret while we have 3 turrets based on power damage (rifle, rocket, thumper) feels bad.

After soulbeast and weaver, I can't take the "it's too much work" argument seriously anymore. The amount of new skills those two got (many which will never get used enough) is staggering. If they could dedicate so many resources for that, they can give the other professions some love too.

• I would buff grenades to replace the bomb kit's role. I think the Tool Kit is useless (I'd rather replace it with main-hand mace and weapon swap) but we're talking about "converting" the current skills into something else, and bomb kit is perfect for that.
• Elixir C is just turned into a mine, the effect would remain the same.
• Boon removal of throw mine would still remove boons, nothing changes there.

Not sure why mine variations would feel bad, gyros work that way already. The "place and activate remotely" gameplay can be pretty interesting as well. The mines themselves could have an effect radius, and a smaller automatic activation radius for when enemies step on them. They could be invisible once placed, but players could detect them using reveal. As you see, they can be pretty interesting.

The

Mine Kit

was a thing once upon a time too, pity it was scrapped instead of improved.

I am talking about just having different kinds of mines being uninteresting visually and thematically.With their crafty nature, engineer could make so many different kinds of preparations, like I explained. Devices to spread fumes, drills, explosives, teleport devices, etc.

And especially since engineer is already so loaded with different explosives, having an entire category just being different mines exploding for various effects doesn't really excite me.

Yeah, that would work too, they don't have to be 6 conventional mines, they could be pretty much anything.

You could go further and just remove mines from preparations, moving them into a kit, just like the original Mine Kit from the beta. I prefer to have mines as slot skills, but there are plenty solutions out there.

[Opopanax.1803]

"Storm the castle!"240 sec cd, 2.5 sec castDrop 3 bundles around you, picked up by anyone.1 creates a battering ram1 creates catapult vs ballista1 creates an arrow cart

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

"You Are Already Dead!"Weaken and slow target foe for 5s, grant yourself 5s of super speed and 5s of quickness.

2 ammo charges, 10s between uses, 25s cd per charge.

[ArielRebel.3426]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:Last I check, this was the warrior forum section.Well engi took over most of warriors niches, so it is only appropriate to take over the forum too. You are not allowed to whine about how kitten your main class is in its own forum space.

haha! Too true.

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:"You Are Already Dead!"Weaken and slow target foe for 5s, grant yourself 5s of super speed and 5s of quickness.

2 ammo charges, 10s between uses, 25s cd per charge.

I'd like this. I would just change it a bit so it applies 2 "effects" :-> the effect on the enemy would pulse every second. Each pulse (total of 5) would give 1 sec of weaken and slow.-> the effect on yourself would pulse every second. Each pulse (total of 5) gives you 1 sec of superspeed, quickness and resistance.

Charges could have a 35s cd to make up for this but not more than that, as it's a really selfish shout (no effect on allies beside the AoE heal if you spec for it).

[Vancho.8750]

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:Last I check, this was the warrior forum section.Well engi took over most of warriors niches, so it is only appropriate to take over the forum too. You are not allowed to whine about how kitten your main class is in its own forum space.

haha! Too true.

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:"You Are Already Dead!"Weaken and slow target foe for 5s, grant yourself 5s of super speed and 5s of quickness.

2 ammo charges, 10s between uses, 25s cd per charge.

I'd like this. I would just change it a bit so it applies 2 "effects" :-> the effect on the enemy would pulse every second. Each pulse (total of 5) would give 1 sec of weaken and slow.-> the effect on yourself would pulse every second. Each pulse (total of 5) gives you 1 sec of superspeed, quickness and resistance.

Charges could have a 35s cd to make up for this but not more than that, as it's a really selfish shout (no effect on allies beside the AoE heal if you spec for it).

AOE Full Barrier shout with protection, resistance, stability(not sure about that one since idk if giving more AOE stab is that good for the game) and regeneration(since they removed the group regen on banners).

Name maybe 'Once more into the breach, my friends' sounds about right but might be too on the nose, or maybe something like the Warcraft bloodlust RARGH RAWRAWRAWRAW sound

.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:Last I check, this was the warrior forum section.Well engi took over most of warriors niches, so it is only appropriate to take over the forum too. You are not allowed to whine about how kitten your main class is in its own forum space.

haha! Too true.

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:"You Are Already Dead!"Weaken and slow target foe for 5s, grant yourself 5s of super speed and 5s of quickness.

2 ammo charges, 10s between uses, 25s cd per charge.

I'd like this. I would just change it a bit so it applies 2 "effects" :-> the effect on the enemy would pulse every second. Each pulse (total of 5) would give 1 sec of weaken and slow.-> the effect on yourself would pulse every second. Each pulse (total of 5) gives you 1 sec of superspeed, quickness and resistance.

Charges could have a 35s cd to make up for this but not more than that, as it's a really selfish shout (no effect on allies beside the AoE heal if you spec for it).

AOE Full Barrier shout with protection, resistance, stability(not sure about that one since idk if giving more AOE stab is that good for the game) and regeneration(since they removed the group regen on banners).

Name maybe 'Once more into the breach, my friends' sounds about right but might be too on the nose, or maybe something like the Warcraft bloodlust RARGH RAWRAWRAWRAW sound

.

Mmmm. AoE barrier, resistance, protection, and retaliation, but no stab. AoE stab is cancer. The retaliation would be good on core though for spiked armor. Make it a super defensive shout for the warrior. Shorten the name to "Into the Breach!"

[HotDelirium.7984]

I always thought Elites were the perfect place to have that grand skill from each type of utility (shouts, manipulations etc) and some base professions have them and some don't and I find that unfortunate because it doesn't seem fully thought out. The elites have them and maybe that was the new way of addressing that feedback and keeping everything congruent and aligned to the theme of the elite. Warrior should have an elite Shout and Stance. Also, an Elementalist should have elites per whatever attunement they are apart of. Having the cantrip just for Tornado and the conjure just for the firesword is unfortunate because those are only one element.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@HotDelirium.7984 said:I always thought Elites were the perfect place to have that grand skill from each type of utility (shouts, manipulations etc) and some base professions have them and some don't and I find that unfortunate because it doesn't seem fully thought out. The elites have them and maybe that was the new way of addressing that feedback and keeping everything congruent and aligned to the theme of the elite. Warrior should have an elite Shout and Stance. Also, an Elementalist should have elites per whatever attunement they are apart of. Having the cantrip just for Tornado and the conjure just for the firesword is unfortunate because those are only one element.

Can't your 'infuse' the tornado with elements though?

[HotDelirium.7984]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@HotDelirium.7984 said:I always thought Elites were the perfect place to have that grand skill from each type of utility (shouts, manipulations etc) and some base professions have them and some don't and I find that unfortunate because it doesn't seem fully thought out. The elites have them and maybe that was the new way of addressing that feedback and keeping everything congruent and aligned to the theme of the elite. Warrior should have an elite Shout and Stance. Also, an Elementalist should have elites per whatever attunement they are apart of. Having the cantrip just for Tornado and the conjure just for the firesword is unfortunate because those are only one element.

Can't your 'infuse' the tornado with elements though?With lightning, dust and rock yes. If you could with water and fire that def would be interesting but no dice!