Things that bother me when I play PvP

[deliberate.1932]

This isn't gonna be some rant or something but I wanna question some game mechanics that I really don't enjoy playing against, because they're so uninteractive. There are probably things missing, because I don't have much knowledge about some classes.

Well to start with I want to adress rev currently and its legend mechanics that are extremly unfun to play with and against. If you have a look at dwarf for example, I don't get why it's so easy to be so effective. Why should I be able to have someone in target to taunt him and also chain all the other people that are in the teamfight for free. Why giving me the extra benefit of 4 potential targets for no investment at all. There is no thought process behind it, its not interactive. Same with the dwarf upkeep hammers. I can have the upkeep skill run currently and the energy loss is not really recognizeable. In addition to that its unblockable and gives me health with retribution. Or look at mallyx for example, I negate my most damage when I play condi rev out of just legend swapping. I don't even want to start with spirits.Or look at guard. The damage it does rn is basically all going over some passives. Why would I allow a class to give me burning every 3rd hit it gives me and how can a class be that viable that it only requires to put down traps? The investment that goes into that is so low, but so effective and so unfun to play against.Also necro bloodmagic traitline Vampiric presence. Just giving lifesteal out for free. Fear Ring on necroHolo explosive entrance. 2k hit after each dodge. Shield instant stun or knockback.Warrior Full counter. 8 seconds cooldown and absorbing any skill for free.Thief steal. Instant cast gives insane amount of boons. Lifesteal. Boonrip. Daze. Stealth?Core Ranger. Most damage comes from some npc that runs with them.

I don't know, maybe this just seems obvious to me, but I'd like to play the interactive game gw2 once was. I want to get outplayed again or outplay someone, because I predict his next actio n, count his dodges, playing around his cooldowns. But there are so many things right now that is just unfun to play against. I'm not saying the things listed above are op. I want to see what I get hit by and not cringe myself out after I just got lifestolen + dazed by the Kalla to death. Builds like Power Herald or strength warr, holo without nades + with rifle, Chronomancer, Reaper, Old ranger where lb5 didnt do 6k dps, need to prosper again. The sidenode meta is, excuse me if I say it like that, a "shit-show" right now.I know that cmc is a very competent dev and knows how a competitive gw2 pvp needs to look like, but the investment in balancing, even tho you guys are working on an expansion is not enough. It doesn't help saying it is not enough, you need to do it also. And if you're responsible for balancing and there are people at arenanet, that don't let you do your job right, because they give you other things to do, then you need to stand up for it. I also love this game, but as a player I don't have much to make it better, because I depend on the actions of the devs.It is time to change something in the way this company works and put their values in. PvP is not a small sector of the game and you let it go down the river, because of the image this company is trying to pursue. To a lot of people this Game is not some art or enjoyment in storytelling, you also have a wide audience that enjoys competitive aspects of the game, but this company is constantly showing the middlefinger in those peoples faces and that is just extremly selfish. A product should suit the customer and not the other way around.This post went another direction than I expected it now, but I hope you take it as critism. I wouldn't write this if I wouldn't care about the game.

[Bast.7253]

Careful, expressing discontent will wind up with this post removed.

Better to just keep your thoughts to yourself and put your money where your mouth is.

[deliberate.1932]

@Bast.7253 said:Careful, expressing discontent will wind up with this post removed.

Better to just keep your thoughts to yourself and put your money where your mouth is.

Why should a post like this be removed? It's my point of view how I see the game right now and I don't think its toxic. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Leona.2716]

As you are aware, botting has become so bad in PVP, that a lot of players went to PVE content due to the fact that PVP ranked and unranked has become unplayable! Each match consists of at least 2 or 3 botts (very often the same ones for a years on end)I already have gotten a standard reply from you guys about this issue stating that you are working on it and that you can't give out any info about how you guys are dealing with this. To be honest, I have even heard rumors that ARENANET is actually creating and or allowing these botts to exist to fill up the PVP to make it seem more full and reduce queue times. I hope this is not true, as this would be a clear violation towards your audience and consumers.I'll get straight to the point now; I don't expect you to do anything about the botting since I've read countless forums and thousands of review about people complaining about you guys not doing anything about it so i won't even try to convince you guys. But please, and I stress, PLEASE, why won't you guys just add 3v3 deathmatch permanently in the queue option!!! This way people can make their own pre-made groups which is amazing to play!!!! No botts whatsoever!!! You guys already have the 3v3 system all mapped out, so it's just a matter of adding it to the queue system permanently so you guys don't even have to do any extra work. There also an option for you guys to make conquest 5v5 available for pre-made groups of 5 and not 2. The last option would be to give us two conquest modes the standard 5v5 or another one that is 3v3 (pre-made groups possible) This way people can actually choose their PVP mode and play style and reduce and even eliminate botting altogether! Can you guys please discuss this on your next team meeting please? Since you guys are focused on bringing gw2 to steam and bring in new crowd, you should take it seriously that a lot of new players will be drawn to the PVP content as well and if they see that at the get go, there are non-stop botts 24/7, they will stop playing gw2 altogether.. Please discuss it at your next meeting and just implement the 3v3 deathmatch as fixed permanent thing to reduce botting! This way you guys also have less work on keeping an eye on botters all the time. If by a miracle you do decide to add 3v3 permanently, then please also increase the reward track by adding more ascended shards and marks so it can be a viable way to grind ascended gear. I still I have hope that one good soul(developer) at ARENANET will read this and help make the game better and the audience more satisfied and renew the faith in ARENANET!!!Thank you for your timeRegardsLeona

[deliberate.1932]

I mean botting is a bad thing generally, but I doubt the right approach would be getting a 3v3 que to prevent that. 3v3 ques would mean that the player base would split up again in 2 gamemodes and less population is in each then. So its even more likely to face bots and having them in your team. Also another factor for arenanet to balance, which they don't really manage to do even for 1 gamemode. Don't get me wrong, I think botting is very unhealthy for the gamemode and there should be a solution to it, but this isn't it.Actually don't know how bad botting is in the lower leagues tbh. I usually play p1/p2 and never recognized a bot in my game so far. @Leona.2716

[Widmo.3186]

@chilled.6794 said:

@Bast.7253 said:Careful, expressing discontent will wind up with this post removed.

Better to just keep your thoughts to yourself and put your money where your mouth is.

Why should a post like this be removed? It's my point of view how I see the game right now and I don't think its toxic. Correct me if I am wrong.

Theres only one right point of view, moderators one. Everything else is just a toxic behaviour and disrespect towards company

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"chilled.6794" said:This isn't gonna be some rant or something but I wanna question some game mechanics that I really don't enjoy playing against, because they're so uninteractive. There are probably things missing, because I don't have much knowledge about some classes.

Well to start with I want to adress rev currently and its legend mechanics that are extremly unfun to play with and against. If you have a look at dwarf for example, I don't get why it's so easy to be so effective. Why should I be able to have someone in target to taunt him and also chain all the other people that are in the teamfight for free. Why giving me the extra benefit of 4 potential targets for no investment at all. There is no thought process behind it, its not interactive. Same with the dwarf upkeep hammers. I can have the upkeep skill run currently and the energy loss is not really recognizeable. In addition to that its unblockable and gives me health with retribution. Or look at mallyx for example, I negate my most damage when I play condi rev out of just legend swapping. I don't even want to start with spirits.Or look at guard. The damage it does rn is basically all going over some passives. Why would I allow a class to give me burning every 3rd hit it gives me and how can a class be that viable that it only requires to put down traps? The investment that goes into that is so low, but so effective and so unfun to play against.Also necro bloodmagic traitline Vampiric presence. Just giving lifesteal out for free. Fear Ring on necroHolo explosive entrance. 2k hit after each dodge. Shield instant stun or knockback.Warrior Full counter. 8 seconds cooldown and absorbing any skill for free.Thief steal. Instant cast gives insane amount of boons. Lifesteal. Boonrip. Daze. Stealth?Core Ranger. Most damage comes from some npc that runs with them.

I don't know, maybe this just seems obvious to me, but I'd like to play the interactive game gw2 once was. I want to get outplayed again or outplay someone, because I predict his next actio n, count his dodges, playing around his cooldowns. But there are so many things right now that is just unfun to play against. I'm not saying the things listed above are op. I want to see what I get hit by and not cringe myself out after I just got lifestolen + dazed by the Kalla to death. Builds like Power Herald or strength warr, holo without nades + with rifle, Chronomancer, Reaper, Old ranger where lb5 didnt do 6k dps, need to prosper again. The sidenode meta is, excuse me if I say it like that, a "kitten-show" right now.I know that cmc is a very competent dev and knows how a competitive gw2 pvp needs to look like, but the investment in balancing, even tho you guys are working on an expansion is not enough. It doesn't help saying it is not enough, you need to do it also. And if you're responsible for balancing and there are people at arenanet, that don't let you do your job right, because they give you other things to do, then you need to stand up for it. I also love this game, but as a player I don't have much to make it better, because I depend on the actions of the devs.It is time to change something in the way this company works and put their values in. PvP is not a small sector of the game and you let it go down the river, because of the image this company is trying to pursue. To a lot of people this Game is not some art or enjoyment in storytelling, you also have a wide audience that enjoys competitive aspects of the game, but this company is constantly showing the middlefinger in those peoples faces and that is just extremly selfish. A product should suit the customer and not the other way around.This post went another direction than I expected it now, but I hope you take it as critism. I wouldn't write this if I wouldn't care about the game.

you made a huge complain post and did not complain about mesmer, you are in violation of this forums rules and have been reported, have a good day.

[deliberate.1932]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"chilled.6794" said:This isn't gonna be some rant or something but I wanna question some game mechanics that I really don't enjoy playing against, because they're so uninteractive. There are probably things missing, because I don't have much knowledge about some classes.

Well to start with I want to adress rev currently and its legend mechanics that are extremly unfun to play with and against. If you have a look at dwarf for example, I don't get why it's so easy to be so effective. Why should I be able to have someone in target to taunt him and also chain all the other people that are in the teamfight for free. Why giving me the extra benefit of 4 potential targets for no investment at all. There is no thought process behind it, its not interactive. Same with the dwarf upkeep hammers. I can have the upkeep skill run currently and the energy loss is not really recognizeable. In addition to that its unblockable and gives me health with retribution. Or look at mallyx for example, I negate my most damage when I play condi rev out of just legend swapping. I don't even want to start with spirits.Or look at guard. The damage it does rn is basically all going over some passives. Why would I allow a class to give me burning every 3rd hit it gives me and how can a class be that viable that it only requires to put down traps? The investment that goes into that is so low, but so effective and so unfun to play against.Also necro bloodmagic traitline Vampiric presence. Just giving lifesteal out for free. Fear Ring on necroHolo explosive entrance. 2k hit after each dodge. Shield instant stun or knockback.Warrior Full counter. 8 seconds cooldown and absorbing any skill for free.Thief steal. Instant cast gives insane amount of boons. Lifesteal. Boonrip. Daze. Stealth?Core Ranger. Most damage comes from some npc that runs with them.

I don't know, maybe this just seems obvious to me, but I'd like to play the interactive game gw2 once was. I want to get outplayed again or outplay someone, because I predict his next actio n, count his dodges, playing around his cooldowns. But there are so many things right now that is just unfun to play against. I'm not saying the things listed above are op. I want to see what I get hit by and not cringe myself out after I just got lifestolen + dazed by the Kalla to death. Builds like Power Herald or strength warr, holo without nades + with rifle, Chronomancer, Reaper, Old ranger where lb5 didnt do 6k dps, need to prosper again. The sidenode meta is, excuse me if I say it like that, a "kitten-show" right now.I know that cmc is a very competent dev and knows how a competitive gw2 pvp needs to look like, but the investment in balancing, even tho you guys are working on an expansion is not enough. It doesn't help saying it is not enough, you need to do it also. And if you're responsible for balancing and there are people at arenanet, that don't let you do your job right, because they give you other things to do, then you need to stand up for it. I also love this game, but as a player I don't have much to make it better, because I depend on the actions of the devs.It is time to change something in the way this company works and put their values in. PvP is not a small sector of the game and you let it go down the river, because of the image this company is trying to pursue. To a lot of people this Game is not some art or enjoyment in storytelling, you also have a wide audience that enjoys competitive aspects of the game, but this company is constantly showing the middlefinger in those peoples faces and that is just extremly selfish. A product should suit the customer and not the other way around.This post went another direction than I expected it now, but I hope you take it as critism. I wouldn't write this if I wouldn't care about the game.

you made a huge complain post and did not complain about mesmer, you are in violation of this forums rules and have been reported, have a good day.

Mesmer OMEGALUL. Nah, but in my perception the only really mesmer spec that was fun to play against in a way of outplay potential was the hot moa chrono. Idk, how to call this build really.

[Leona.2716]

@chilled.6794 : Trust me, in the lower leagues like bronze, silver and even gold, botts are horrible! People who get to be platinum are very lucky and has nothing to do with actual real game play! Platinum players just have a lot of luck that their teams didn't have too many botts at that time or the apposing team was 100% botts! Skills don't come into play that much to be honest. Botts are the most present in the morning and late evening. It's practically impossible for new player to go beyond bronze due to always having a full team of botts and having to do all the work all yourself! Sometimes the botts actually run into walls or just stand beside points and do nothing! The reason i suggested the 3v3 is that, it's based on not only my own experience but also my guild mates! Everyone agrees that adding a 3v3 option as permanent would be a great way of decreasing botts! I have played the 3v3 and 2v2 deathmathes and guess what? I got to gold 3!!!!! Why? Because I ALWAYS made my own pre-made team of people that I actually know!!! I never had botts causes I always had a pre-made team! Also, there is nothing to balance! Arenanet already made the 3v3 system! It's already mapped out! They just need to add it on a permanent basis! And with 3v3 you can clearlys ee that 90% of the teams are pre-made through LFG so it is balances sicne both your own team and the otther team are pre-made (equal chances).They could also make a distinction between the two by giving different reward tracks to make people do both and therefore spreading out the player base! At least this way we can actually play pvp how its suppose to be! Why does World of Warcraft have multiple pvp modes? They have 2v2, 1v1,3v3, battlegrounds of 10v10 and bigger ones of 25+. And the 1v1,2v2 and the 3v3 never have botts in them because you can make pre-made groups! If World of Warcraft can do it, so can GW2!! No excuse!!!! World of Warcraft manged to heavily reduce the botts, so saying its a bad thing and not doing anything about its bullshit. I have print screens and video recordings of botts that I have had in my team or opposing team like a billion times in a row on multiple days over a few months! Always reported them and nothing happens! 100% botts and multiple reports, and yet they do nothing! It's not that hard to spot them! I actually have recordings of them running against walls etc.... I mean come on! How hard can it be especially if we already reported them doing half the leg work for arenanet! We point them out, all they need to do check the account and the bott's behavior. I have a whole list of botts!!! Over 120 regular daily botts!!!!!!! Its ridiculous how obvious the botts are and get away with it for years!!!!!! In other games like World of Warcraft, you get a warning for the least suspicious thing and after that you get banned! In Guild Wars you can curse, insult people and the most violating things and still not get banned! Afkers also get no punishment at all! The whole report system doesn't work, or they are understaffed and cant handle all the reports. I know 100% that it's not money issues since they earn millions of dollars a year off of the black lion gem store alone without the expacs!!! They have time and resources o add weekly stupid worthless outfits to the store but don't have time or money to fix CORE issues that have been present for years without any action taken???? Nope....don't buy it! There also a possibility that the head of the developers or someone bigger in charge gives the team pointless objectives and assignments and misdirects their focus from core stuff to money making worthless stuff like weekly outfits on the black lion store....who knows?! The staff probably knows about the bot tissues, but they can't do anything about it cause the person in charge won't focus on the core issues. I'm not saying it's the truth but it is an objective possibility since every game has business/money part to it. @chilled.6794

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@chilled.6794 said:I mean botting is a bad thing generally, but I doubt the right approach would be getting a 3v3 que to prevent that. 3v3 ques would mean that the player base would split up again in 2 gamemodes and less population is in each then. So its even more likely to face bots and having them in your team. Also another factor for arenanet to balance, which they don't really manage to do even for 1 gamemode. Don't get me wrong, I think botting is very unhealthy for the gamemode and there should be a solution to it, but this isn't it.Actually don't know how bad botting is in the lower leagues tbh. I usually play p1/p2 and never recognized a bot in my game so far. @Leona.2716

I just lost -34 rating tonight and dropped from 1651 to 1617 due to a mirage bot that did nothing but walk to far node and instantaneously die over and over and over. My queue partner lost -41. Our ratings were high enough to be in the top 10 for week 2.

The bots are real in every division. They may be obnoxious in middle tier games, but in high tier games, the bots are so much worse than the players, that if you get a bot on your team vs. all real players, you pretty much are loading into a 4v5 and get to auto lose. I mean it's just as detrimental as loading into a straight organized win trade against you.

It's really getting to be very discouraging for any incentive to participate in ranked seasons.

[Tharan.9085]

@Leona.2716 said:@chilled.6794 : Trust me, in the lower leagues like bronze, silver and even gold, botts are horrible! People who get to be platinum are very lucky and has nothing to do with actual real game play! Platinum players just have a lot of luck that their teams didn't have too many botts at that time or the apposing team was 100% botts! Skills don't come into play that much to be honest.

Ah yes, that's why there are so many players that get plat every season

[deliberate.1932]

Why do I have the feeling I get memed on right now

[Avatar.3568]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Leona.2716 said:@chilled.6794 : Trust me, in the lower leagues like bronze, silver and even gold, botts are horrible! People who get to be platinum are very lucky and has nothing to do with actual real game play! Platinum players just have a lot of luck that their teams didn't have too many botts at that time or the apposing team was 100% botts! Skills don't come into play that much to be honest.

Ah yes, that's why there are so many players that get plat every season

Stop preventing that you q dodge bots

[ollbirtan.2915]

I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~-Shrug-

[Megametzler.5729]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~-Shrug-

I also wonder whether it might be an NA issue? Never seen a bot (I believe). Even cheaters and afkers occur, but pretty rarely. Though I am not playing as much anymore and usually only during prime times, but the picture people paint seems pretty different from my experience...

[Oakendale.2849]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~-Shrug-

I have to agree completely.

Have I seen a few bots here and there ? Sure I have, but overall I'm not sure what game a lot of you are playing because I don't seen them nearly as much.

I think this goes back to the whole meme thing.

Pretty much "OMG REPORT BOT " is now in line with the boy who cried wolf.

Someone doesn't play to "your" standards - OMG REPORT BOT

Someone doesn't move for 20 secs - OMG REPORT BOT

Someone doesn't +1 - OMG REPORT BOT

Someone keeps going to the center node - OMG REPORT BOT

Someone misses a stomp - OMG REPORT BOT

See the problem?

What is amazing is people keep forgetting one point about GW2.

It was sold as a casual friendly game - yet the conquest population complains when casual people play it.

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

@Azreell.1568 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~-Shrug-

Someone doesn't move for 20 secs - OMG REPORT BOT

Uh, yeah. You deserve to b reported for botting/afk if you leave for twenty seconds during a match.

[Oakendale.2849]

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@Azreell.1568 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~-Shrug-

Someone doesn't move for 20 secs - OMG REPORT BOT

Uh, yeah. You deserve to b reported for botting/afk if you leave for twenty seconds during a match.

Things Happen - this is simply just a recreational game after all.

You are 100% the current problem with the false BOT / AFK reports and why their system is overwhelmed and not able to actually get rid of the real bots.

[Megametzler.5729]

@Azreell.1568 said:(...)

Also true. The other day a player was accused of being a bot by several team members. I talked to the accused bot for a little while after the game... he knew, he was less skilled, but that behaviour was just awful.

Are you from NA or EU?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

These bots hide that they are bots rather well nowadays. I mean it's to the point that you wouldn't really notice unless you knew what to look for, and were going out of your way to pay attention to that player.

Some of you guys seem to be greatly underestimating how far along the bot programs have come in GW2.

Examples of things to pay attention to, from what I've noticed about the difference between bots and actual bad players:

• Bad players generally get upset if people say anything to them at all. They'll say something back or start arguments, sometimes afk without saying anything. Sometimes bad players noticeably begin getting disinterested in the match when they do poorly, and you see them linger for 10s or something when they respawn before they walk back out. But bots literally 100% completely ignore everything said to them, say nothing back, they don't afk or linger in spawn. Without skipping a beat or showing any response to communication in any way, they continue doing the exact same thing the entire match.
• Actual bad players have jumpy skittish WASD movement. If you really pay attention to real players, just like how a person writes by hand or draws with a pencil, you can see unique signatures in how a person uses their WASD movement keys, and even things like how they like to stand when they are capping a node, or how they like to run in a circle when they are capping a node, ect ect. All the bots walk directly to the very center of the node and stand still while capping it. When I say the center of the node, I mean like mathematically within the game parameters X Y Z axis, they are perfectly standing in the exact center of the node all of the time every time. Bots move from point A to point B and never show any unique signatures in movement whatsoever. Even the bot programs that have attempted to replicate human movements, they still obviously move like a bot, with complete disregard for higher human thinking map awareness, and generally only ever react if a player strikes them with an attack <- That's important to pay attention to.
• When I come over a hill from say mid in legacy to far in legacy, if a bad player is standing on the far node and sees me as Gank coming at him, they start moving around and acting a bit panicky. They seem to not really be sure what they should be doing. They sudden dodge roll for no reason, to try and intuitively dodge some LB attack before it happens. Then they try to cast a symbol at me or something, before deciding they are going to leave the node and attempt to LOS. Actual bad players are again, skittish and fumbly as all hell, very visually. A bot on the other hand, will stand on that node facing me, and do absolutely nothing as it stands in perfect center of the node, and it won't react to me until I get within some mid range threshold where it can use its attacks, or until I open up a 1500+ range burst on it. <- No actual real player would stand there and literally do nothing when a high powered ranged class was walking directly at them and obviously positioning itself to nuclear strike them as they stood there in the center of node letting it happen, as if the burst wasn't going to down them in 1/2 a second.
• Bots will respond to the same things in the same way every time. I mean I could engage a bot and kill it 15x in a match, and it will never learn that it should move out of the way from the center of the node when it sees me coming. It'll never learn that it should stealth when it sees me, or use blink and go away. It'll do the same stupid things every time. I'll open a burst on it as it stands there and attempts to cycle through phantasms to prime its main offense on node, as if it weren't going to die in 1/2 a second. Does the same thing every time. Even a player on their first day of play would learn after dying once or twice to a good player, that they need to do something different.
• And finally, bots never use terrain. A good example is Skyhammer jump pads. The bots just aren't keenly designed enough to know how to jump up a pad on a side node and get away or at least attempt to get away. They'll stand there on the node and do the same thing they would on any other node, as if the jump pads weren't even there. Bots also completely ignore objectives. They only go to nodes and sometimes follow players to engage combat. They are not keenly designed enough to incorporate playing for objectives in the way that you'd clearly see humans doing, at least not that I've seen. Real players, even bad ones, will do things like jump up and over boxes or try to LOS in strange places or be very cowardly and go in and out and in and out of the spawn doors in legacy. Bots never do things like this. They only walk in a simple pathing from node to node and sometimes follow players for engagement in a simple pathing.
• Oh and one more thing. Despite how bad in combat the bot is, they are always amazingly accurate with their interrupt skills, such as mantra of distraction. The one thing the bots can do better than a human is computer reflex know exactly when you're using a heal skill, and immediately push that instant interrupt CC as soon as you begin casting your heal. So when a player is amazingly bad in combat but somehow savant like at interrupting your heal utility, yeah that's a bot.

When you see players who act like this ^ 99% guarantee you it's a bot.

[Rukia.4802]

Things that bother me in pvp: everything

[Oakendale.2849]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:These bots hide that they are bots rather well nowadays. I mean it's to the point that you wouldn't really notice unless you knew what to look for, and were going out of your way to pay attention to that player.

Some of you guys seem to be greatly underestimating how far along the bot programs have come in GW2.

Examples of things to pay attention to, from what I've noticed about the difference between bots and actual bad players:

• Bad players generally get upset if people say anything to them at all. They'll say something back or start arguments, sometimes afk without saying anything. Sometimes bad players noticeably begin getting disinterested in the match when they do poorly, and you see them linger for 10s or something when they respawn before they walk back out. But bots literally 100% completely ignore everything said to them, say nothing back, they don't afk or linger in spawn. Without skipping a beat or showing any response to communication in any way, they continue doing the exact same thing the entire match.
• Actual bad players have jumpy skittish WASD movement. If you really pay attention to real players, just like how a person writes by hand or draws with a pencil, you can see unique signatures in how a person uses their WASD movement keys, and even things like how they like to stand when they are capping a node, or how they like to run in a circle when they are capping a node, ect ect. All the bots walk directly to the very center of the node and stand still while capping it. When I say the center of the node, I mean like mathematically within the game parameters X Y Z axis, they are perfectly standing in the exact center of the node all of the time every time. Bots move from point A to point B and never show any unique signatures in movement whatsoever. Even the bot programs that have attempted to replicate human movements, they still obviously move like a bot, with complete disregard for higher human thinking map awareness, and generally only ever react if a player strikes them with an attack <- That's important to pay attention to.
• When I come over a hill from say mid in legacy to far in legacy, if a bad player is standing on the far node and sees me as Gank coming at him, they start moving around and acting a bit panicky. They seem to not really be sure what they should be doing. They sudden dodge roll for no reason, to try and intuitively dodge some LB attack before it happens. Then they try to cast a symbol at me or something, before deciding they are going to leave the node and attempt to LOS. Actual bad players are again, skittish and fumbly as all hell, very visually. A bot on the other hand, will stand on that node facing me, and do absolutely nothing as it stands in perfect center of the node, and it won't react to me until I get within some mid range threshold where it can use its attacks, or until I open up a 1500+ range burst on it. <- No actual real player would stand there and literally do nothing when a high powered ranged class was walking directly at them and obviously positioning itself to nuclear strike them as they stood there in the center of node letting it happen, as if the burst wasn't going to down them in 1/2 a second.
• Bots will respond to the same things in the same way every time. I mean I could engage a bot and kill it 15x in a match, and it will never learn that it should move out of the way from the center of the node when it sees me coming. It'll never learn that it should stealth when it sees me, or use blink and go away. It'll do the same stupid things every time. I'll open a burst on it as it stands there and attempts to cycle through phantasms to prime its main offense on node, as if it weren't going to die in 1/2 a second. Does the same thing every time. Even a player on their first day of play would learn after dying once or twice to a good player, that they need to do something different.
• And finally, bots never use terrain. A good example is Skyhammer jump pads. The bots just aren't keenly designed enough to know how to jump up a pad on a side node and get away or at least attempt to get away. They'll stand there on the node and do the same thing they would on any other node, as if the jump pads weren't even there. Bots also completely ignore objectives. They only go to nodes and sometimes follow players to engage combat. They are not keenly designed enough to incorporate playing for objectives in the way that you'd clearly see humans doing, at least not that I've seen. Real players, even bad ones, will do things like jump up and over boxes or try to LOS in strange places or be very cowardly and go in and out and in and out of the spawn doors in legacy. Bots never do things like this. They only walk in a simple pathing from node to node and sometimes follow players for engagement in a simple pathing.
• Oh and one more thing. Despite how bad in combat the bot is, they are always amazingly accurate with their interrupt skills, such as mantra of distraction. The one thing the bots can do better than a human is computer reflex know exactly when you're using a heal skill, and immediately push that instant interrupt CC as soon as you begin casting your heal. So when a player is amazingly bad in combat but somehow savant like at interrupting your heal utility, yeah that's a bot.

When you see players who act like this ^ 99% guarantee you it's a bot.

Also, most of this can be done by a player as well who is not a bot.

But, I have to say. With you watching all this it amazes me you can ever complete a pvp match and be productive ....

[Leona.2716]

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~-Shrug-

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:These bots hide that they are bots rather well nowadays. I mean it's to the point that you wouldn't really notice unless you knew what to look for, and were going out of your way to pay attention to that player.

Some of you guys seem to be greatly underestimating how far along the bot programs have come in GW2.

Examples of things to pay attention to, from what I've noticed about the difference between bots and actual bad players:

• Bad players generally get upset if people say anything to them at all. They'll say something back or start arguments, sometimes afk without saying anything. Sometimes bad players noticeably begin getting disinterested in the match when they do poorly, and you see them linger for 10s or something when they respawn before they walk back out. But bots literally 100% completely ignore everything said to them, say nothing back, they don't afk or linger in spawn. Without skipping a beat or showing any response to communication in any way, they continue doing the exact same thing the entire match.
• Actual bad players have jumpy skittish WASD movement. If you really pay attention to real players, just like how a person writes by hand or draws with a pencil, you can see unique signatures in how a person uses their WASD movement keys, and even things like how they like to stand when they are capping a node, or how they like to run in a circle when they are capping a node, ect ect. All the bots walk directly to the very center of the node and stand still while capping it. When I say the center of the node, I mean like mathematically within the game parameters X Y Z axis, they are perfectly standing in the exact center of the node all of the time every time. Bots move from point A to point B and never show any unique signatures in movement whatsoever. Even the bot programs that have attempted to replicate human movements, they still obviously move like a bot, with complete disregard for higher human thinking map awareness, and generally only ever react if a player strikes them with an attack <- That's important to pay attention to.
• When I come over a hill from say mid in legacy to far in legacy, if a bad player is standing on the far node and sees me as Gank coming at him, they start moving around and acting a bit panicky. They seem to not really be sure what they should be doing. They sudden dodge roll for no reason, to try and intuitively dodge some LB attack before it happens. Then they try to cast a symbol at me or something, before deciding they are going to leave the node and attempt to LOS. Actual bad players are again, skittish and fumbly as all hell, very visually. A bot on the other hand, will stand on that node facing me, and do absolutely nothing as it stands in perfect center of the node, and it won't react to me until I get within some mid range threshold where it can use its attacks, or until I open up a 1500+ range burst on it. <- No actual real player would stand there and literally do nothing when a high powered ranged class was walking directly at them and obviously positioning itself to nuclear strike them as they stood there in the center of node letting it happen, as if the burst wasn't going to down them in 1/2 a second.
• Bots will respond to the same things in the same way every time. I mean I could engage a bot and kill it 15x in a match, and it will never learn that it should move out of the way from the center of the node when it sees me coming. It'll never learn that it should stealth when it sees me, or use blink and go away. It'll do the same stupid things every time. I'll open a burst on it as it stands there and attempts to cycle through phantasms to prime its main offense on node, as if it weren't going to die in 1/2 a second. Does the same thing every time. Even a player on their first day of play would learn after dying once or twice to a good player, that they need to do something different.
• And finally, bots never use terrain. A good example is Skyhammer jump pads. The bots just aren't keenly designed enough to know how to jump up a pad on a side node and get away or at least attempt to get away. They'll stand there on the node and do the same thing they would on any other node, as if the jump pads weren't even there. Bots also completely ignore objectives. They only go to nodes and sometimes follow players to engage combat. They are not keenly designed enough to incorporate playing for objectives in the way that you'd clearly see humans doing, at least not that I've seen. Real players, even bad ones, will do things like jump up and over boxes or try to LOS in strange places or be very cowardly and go in and out and in and out of the spawn doors in legacy. Bots never do things like this. They only walk in a simple pathing from node to node and sometimes follow players for engagement in a simple pathing.
• Oh and one more thing. Despite how bad in combat the bot is, they are always amazingly accurate with their interrupt skills, such as mantra of distraction. The one thing the bots can do better than a human is computer reflex know exactly when you're using a heal skill, and immediately push that instant interrupt CC as soon as you begin casting your heal. So when a player is amazingly bad in combat but somehow savant like at interrupting your heal utility, yeah that's a bot.

When you see players who act like this ^ 99% guarantee you it's a bot.

I agree 100% with this statement!! Glad to see other people being attentive to botting behavior!!!!! People who say they dont notice them, are not paying close enough attention and dont know what to look for! Trust me it not boy cried wolf situation!!!!!! Botts are so obvious that I'm starting to think arenanet is either creating these botts or allowing them to fill up player base and enhance their yearly statistics!!!!!! There is something very fishy about anet ignoring super obvious botts for years on end!!!

[Leona.2716]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~-Shrug-

I also wonder whether it might be an NA issue? Never seen a bot (I believe). Even cheaters and afkers occur, but pretty rarely. Though I am not playing as much anymore and usually only during prime times, but the picture people paint seems pretty different from my experience...

Please check out this video from another eu player like me

This guy literally has the same bots i have like tlou tou and ourach etc....been getting these for months on end an now i see them in other people's videos!!!! This is how obvious it is an anet chooses to ignore it 100%!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Azreell.1568 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:These bots hide that they are bots rather well nowadays. I mean it's to the point that you wouldn't really notice unless you knew what to look for, and were going out of your way to pay attention to that player.

Some of you guys seem to be greatly underestimating how far along the bot programs have come in GW2.

Examples of things to pay attention to, from what I've noticed about the difference between bots and actual bad players:

• Bad players generally get upset if people say anything to them at all. They'll say something back or start arguments, sometimes afk without saying anything. Sometimes bad players noticeably begin getting disinterested in the match when they do poorly, and you see them linger for 10s or something when they respawn before they walk back out. But bots literally 100% completely ignore everything said to them, say nothing back, they don't afk or linger in spawn. Without skipping a beat or showing any response to communication in any way, they continue doing the exact same thing the entire match.
• Actual bad players have jumpy skittish WASD movement. If you really pay attention to real players, just like how a person writes by hand or draws with a pencil, you can see unique signatures in how a person uses their WASD movement keys, and even things like how they like to stand when they are capping a node, or how they like to run in a circle when they are capping a node, ect ect. All the bots walk directly to the very center of the node and stand still while capping it. When I say the center of the node, I mean like mathematically within the game parameters X Y Z axis, they are perfectly standing in the exact center of the node all of the time every time. Bots move from point A to point B and never show any unique signatures in movement whatsoever. Even the bot programs that have attempted to replicate human movements, they still obviously move like a bot, with complete disregard for higher human thinking map awareness, and generally only ever react if a player strikes them with an attack <- That's important to pay attention to.
• When I come over a hill from say mid in legacy to far in legacy, if a bad player is standing on the far node and sees me as Gank coming at him, they start moving around and acting a bit panicky. They seem to not really be sure what they should be doing. They sudden dodge roll for no reason, to try and intuitively dodge some LB attack before it happens. Then they try to cast a symbol at me or something, before deciding they are going to leave the node and attempt to LOS. Actual bad players are again, skittish and fumbly as all hell, very visually. A bot on the other hand, will stand on that node facing me, and do absolutely nothing as it stands in perfect center of the node, and it won't react to me until I get within some mid range threshold where it can use its attacks, or until I open up a 1500+ range burst on it. <- No actual real player would stand there and literally do nothing when a high powered ranged class was walking directly at them and obviously positioning itself to nuclear strike them as they stood there in the center of node letting it happen, as if the burst wasn't going to down them in 1/2 a second.
• Bots will respond to the same things in the same way every time. I mean I could engage a bot and kill it 15x in a match, and it will never learn that it should move out of the way from the center of the node when it sees me coming. It'll never learn that it should stealth when it sees me, or use blink and go away. It'll do the same stupid things every time. I'll open a burst on it as it stands there and attempts to cycle through phantasms to prime its main offense on node, as if it weren't going to die in 1/2 a second. Does the same thing every time. Even a player on their first day of play would learn after dying once or twice to a good player, that they need to do something different.
• And finally, bots never use terrain. A good example is Skyhammer jump pads. The bots just aren't keenly designed enough to know how to jump up a pad on a side node and get away or at least attempt to get away. They'll stand there on the node and do the same thing they would on any other node, as if the jump pads weren't even there. Bots also completely ignore objectives. They only go to nodes and sometimes follow players to engage combat. They are not keenly designed enough to incorporate playing for objectives in the way that you'd clearly see humans doing, at least not that I've seen. Real players, even bad ones, will do things like jump up and over boxes or try to LOS in strange places or be very cowardly and go in and out and in and out of the spawn doors in legacy. Bots never do things like this. They only walk in a simple pathing from node to node and sometimes follow players for engagement in a simple pathing.
• Oh and one more thing. Despite how bad in combat the bot is, they are always amazingly accurate with their interrupt skills, such as mantra of distraction. The one thing the bots can do better than a human is computer reflex know exactly when you're using a heal skill, and immediately push that instant interrupt CC as soon as you begin casting your heal. So when a player is amazingly bad in combat but somehow savant like at interrupting your heal utility, yeah that's a bot.

When you see players who act like this ^ 99% guarantee you it's a bot.

Also, most of this can be done by a player as well who is not a bot.

But, I have to say. With you watching all this it amazes me you can ever complete a pvp match and be productive ....

It amazes me that a homosapien wouldn't notice these things lol. Seems a bit ape if you couldn't.

@Leona.2716 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~-Shrug-

I also wonder whether it might be an NA issue? Never seen a bot (I believe). Even cheaters and afkers occur, but pretty rarely. Though I am not playing as much anymore and usually only during prime times, but the picture people paint seems pretty different from my experience...

Please check out this video from another eu player like me

This guy literally has the same bots i have like tlou tou and ourach etc....been getting these for months on end an now i see them in other people's videos!!!! This is how obvious it is an anet chooses to ignore it 100%!

Yeah, I won't mention any names, but the other day I had a guy whisper me and invite me to an AT right. This guy had 3 players with him that all had similar character names. He was talking to me like they were a guild. He even took the time to multi into his other windows and speak from the accounts to make it look like they were having a conversation. I noticed the flow of the discussion looked like a narrative from one guy. Then we get into a game and one person on the opponent's team directly points out in /m chat and says: "Oh look a team full of bots" and he was right. When the match started, I noticed that the 3 players following him around were indeed very obviously bots. It was a nearly full AT team, of bots. And yeah I'll never queue with him again. They were really bad.