Warrior Balance Requests Omnibus

[Morokey.8534]

All changes looks really good, gj! I am ok with that but have one more thing to improve. Warrior out of combat lose adrenalin so I can't for example enter berserk mode or use burst tier 3 skill after Signet of Fury and "To the Limit!" which gives me 30 adrenalin. There should be something like "no-loosing adrenalin" for short time on these 2 skills, enough to enter berserk or tier 3 burst so let's say 2 seconds. What do you think, guys ?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"Morokey.8534" said:All changes looks really good, gj! I am ok with that but have one more thing to improve. Warrior out of combat lose adrenalin so I can't for example enter berserk mode or use burst tier 3 skill after Signet of Fury and "To the Limit!" which gives me 30 adrenalin. There should be something like "no-loosing adrenalin" for short time on these 2 skills, enought to enter berserk or tier 3 burst so let's say 2 seconds. What do you think, guys ?

At launch the time it took to start to lose adrenaline was quite long. You could run from mob to mob with a full adrenaline bar, during a period that granted passive bonuses for having full bars of adrenaline. They nerfed that hard. Probably the single largest nerf to warrior outside of removing damage from CCs. I do not think they will revert that at all.

The best solution would be to roll an effect into Burst Mastery that delays the decay for 0.5s. You won't get a 2s delay out of them, trust me.

Your problem can be fixed in the mean time though with a ranged attack like GS4 or Axe3 before popping TTL or SoF.

[Smoosh.2718]

I really hate to say this, but all the balance suggestions we put here, or even suggest on the forums will just be trashed into the dumpster.

Asking for balance here is like voting for someone other than Putin in Russia.

Sadly Every time I pick up my warrior for PvP i honestly lose all drive to play the game, play another class and actually find it bearable, but there is so much BS in the current PvP system that just makes builds that arent 'healbreaker' viable vs memey daze spammers. (which has a bug where it sometimes prevents you from dodging or actually removing it on a stunbreak).

I honestly cant see any reason to pick up warrior for damage in PvP if you have classes like the ranger who can put out 28,961 damage from 6 skills over the duration of 3 seconds (which you are dazed for the entire time).

Honestly love the warrior class but man its killing my drive to play the game in its current state.

[Girth.9731]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Reducing the channel time to 2s would bring this to 3.6/2s = 1.8 with the final strike and 1.4 without the final strike, either of which would be more in line with how other skills with similar purposes perform. I think this sort of change would help the skill without clunky rework of the animation and improve the flow of the weapon and actually let the skill shine in execution rather than on paper.

I've been advocating for a reduction in 100b's cast time for months now. Anet is either unwilling to change 100b or doesn't recognize that it needs changing.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Smoosh.2718 said:I really hate to say this, but all the balance suggestions we put here, or even suggest on the forums will just be trashed into the dumpster.

Asking for balance here is like voting for someone other than Putin in Russia.

Sadly Every time I pick up my warrior for PvP i honestly lose all drive to play the game, play another class and actually find it bearable, but there is so much BS in the current PvP system that just makes builds that arent 'healbreaker' viable vs memey daze spammers. (which has a bug where it sometimes prevents you from dodging or actually removing it on a stunbreak).

I honestly cant see any reason to pick up warrior for damage in PvP if you have classes like the ranger who can put out 28,961 damage from 6 skills over the duration of 3 seconds (which you are dazed for the entire time).

Honestly love the warrior class but man its killing my drive to play the game in its current state.

I don't expect anything until right before EOD release. But getting it on the radar can get something me baby steps rolled out.

[ArielRebel.3426]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Smoosh.2718 said:I really hate to say this, but all the balance suggestions we put here, or even suggest on the forums will just be trashed into the dumpster.

Asking for balance here is like voting for someone other than Putin in Russia.

Sadly Every time I pick up my warrior for PvP i honestly lose all drive to play the game, play another class and actually find it bearable, but there is so much BS in the current PvP system that just makes builds that arent 'healbreaker' viable vs memey daze spammers. (which has a bug where it sometimes prevents you from dodging or actually removing it on a stunbreak).

I honestly cant see any reason to pick up warrior for damage in PvP if you have classes like the ranger who can put out 28,961 damage from 6 skills over the duration of 3 seconds (which you are dazed for the entire time).

Honestly love the warrior class but man its killing my drive to play the game in its current state.

I don't expect anything until right before EOD release. But getting it on the radar can get something me baby steps rolled out.

If only devs actually communicated with their player base outside of update posts to at least confirm that they are aware that warrior is significantly struggling atm and how/if they are planning on doing anything about it (which the pessimist me highly doubts will ever happen). Shame. No communication is a major step toward failing as a game developping company and most if not all of the major triple-A flops in the recent years happened mainly because devs were out of touch with the state of balance/their game and didn't listen or communicate with the active playerbase.

[losalamos.5123]

One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/BlockHowever, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/BlockHowever, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

[ArielRebel.3426]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

I gotta say, the fact that blind affects full counter is lame imo. It should not be a thing.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

I gotta say, the fact that blind affects full counter is lame imo. It should not be a thing.

There is a trait for that :tongue:

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

is what i say

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

is what i say

I was providing the full explanation and details for clarity.

[ArielRebel.3426]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

I gotta say, the fact that blind affects full counter is lame imo. It should not be a thing.

There is a trait for that :tongue:Which trait are you talking about, Revenge Counter? I don't see anything else.In any case, ignoring blind should be baked into Full Counter.

Side note : the +20% damage increase of Revenge Counter is a pathetic joke in pvp and WvW. That part of the trait needs a massive buff in those game modes.

[losalamos.5123]

On a side note, is anyone noticing how weak and long cooldown our stunbreaks are (I am disregarding berserker utility skills)Featherfoot grace - 45s, Shake It Off - 75(60s), Endure Pain (40s), Frenzy (45s). Balanced Stance (60s)For a melee class, we are very likely to be hit by a lot of stuns, but lack good options for reasonably removing them.Compare that against Save Yourselfs (Guardian, 8 AoE Buffs) 50(40s), Signet of Judgment (Guardian, passive -10% dmg) 25(20s), Superspeed (Engineer, toolbelt) 25s, Summon Flesh Worm (Necro, swap with wurm) 32s. Blink (Mesmer) 35(27s).

Warrior utility skills feel far less impactful. Either they should be shorter cooldown or they need to do more.

[ArielRebel.3426]

@losalamos.5123 said:On a side note, is anyone noticing how weak and long cooldown our stunbreaks are (I am disregarding berserker utility skills)Featherfoot grace - 45s, Shake It Off - 75(60s), Endure Pain (40s), Frenzy (45s). Balanced Stance (60s)For a melee class, we are very likely to be hit by a lot of stuns, but lack good options for reasonably removing them.Compare that against Save Yourselfs (Guardian, 8 AoE Buffs) 50(40s), Signet of Judgment (Guardian, passive -10% dmg) 25(20s), Superspeed (Engineer, toolbelt) 25s, Summon Flesh Worm (Necro, swap with wurm) 32s. Blink (Mesmer) 35(27s).

Warrior utility skills feel far less impactful. Either they should be shorter cooldown or they need to do more.

When I tried holosmith for the first time, I was surprised at how easy it was to have 2 stunbreaks (Healing Mist on the toolbelt and Elixir U in utilities) that had 28 and 32sec CD respectively from taking a single trait that 90% of engis use and it's not like the ONLY thing they do is just stunbreak either. When you think about it, we need 25 sec JUST FOR THE INTERVAL between using Shake it Off a second time where as classes like engi can have both stunbreaker's CDs be almost done by that time where as we'll need a total of 2 minutes (with the trait, otherwise it's 2,5minutes) before we can have both charges back. Also, beside weapon switching, we have no condi cleanse beside SiO. So if we use SiO for condi cleanse we are boned if CC comes our way and vice-versa. For that reason, we are pretty much stuck having to equip a second stun break too. I wouldn't mind equipping stomp if it wasn't for the fact that it knocks my target away from me instead of leaving him/her in melee range.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

I gotta say, the fact that blind affects full counter is lame imo. It should not be a thing.

There is a trait for that :tongue:Which trait are you talking about, Revenge Counter? I don't see anything else.In any case, ignoring blind should be baked into Full Counter.Yes, it is what it is though.Side note : the +20% damage increase of Revenge Counter is a pathetic joke in pvp and WvW. That part of the trait needs a massive buff in those game modes.

It is recommended in the main post to change Revenge Counter so that the PvE version does the current traited amount but the competitive version deals actual damage.

[ArielRebel.3426]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

I gotta say, the fact that blind affects full counter is lame imo. It should not be a thing.

There is a trait for that :tongue:Which trait are you talking about, Revenge Counter? I don't see anything else.In any case, ignoring blind should be baked into Full Counter.Yes, it is what it is though.Side note : the +20% damage increase of Revenge Counter is a pathetic joke in pvp and WvW. That part of the trait needs a massive buff in those game modes.

It is recommended in the main post to change Revenge Counter so that the PvE version does the current traited amount but the competitive version deals actual damage.

Maybe I'm pessimistic, but I cannot be as optimistic as you. I highly doubt the devs will listen. They have yet to squash the broken classes and to help the overnerfed ones in a long while.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@losalamos.5123 said:On a side note, is anyone noticing how weak and long cooldown our stunbreaks are (I am disregarding berserker utility skills)Featherfoot grace - 45s, Shake It Off - 75(60s), Endure Pain (40s), Frenzy (45s). Balanced Stance (60s)For a melee class, we are very likely to be hit by a lot of stuns, but lack good options for reasonably removing them.Compare that against Save Yourselfs (Guardian, 8 AoE Buffs) 50(40s), Signet of Judgment (Guardian, passive -10% dmg) 25(20s), Superspeed (Engineer, toolbelt) 25s, Summon Flesh Worm (Necro, swap with wurm) 32s. Blink (Mesmer) 35(27s).

Warrior utility skills feel far less impactful. Either they should be shorter cooldown or they need to do more.

This is part of the reason I proposed that Brave Stride apply stab when you use a mobility skill, sadly they put a 10s cd on it...

Shake it off has two charges, stomp is 24s traited, Dolyak Signet is 32s traited, headbutt is also 20s cd. We do have shorter cd stun breaks like other classes and other classes have long ones as well.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@"losalamos.5123" said:One thing that needs to be corrected. At the moment, unblockable skills with loss of control go through Full Counter.I don't think this interaction is intended, because Full Counter isn't supposed to "block" the next attack, it's supposed to absorb it.Look at GW2 Wiki, Full Counter isn't listed as a block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

However, unblockable skills are going through like Steal. This should not be the case and should instead trigger Full Counter.

ful lcounter makes the attack do 0 damage, but all effects still work from any attack.

Full Counter makes it deal 0 damage. Any effects of the triggering attack will go through. Full Counter's Attack will activate after negating the damage. If said attack has riders on it, they activate before full counter, like blind.

I gotta say, the fact that blind affects full counter is lame imo. It should not be a thing.

There is a trait for that :tongue:Which trait are you talking about, Revenge Counter? I don't see anything else.In any case, ignoring blind should be baked into Full Counter.Yes, it is what it is though.Side note : the +20% damage increase of Revenge Counter is a pathetic joke in pvp and WvW. That part of the trait needs a massive buff in those game modes.

It is recommended in the main post to change Revenge Counter so that the PvE version does the current traited amount but the competitive version deals actual damage.

Maybe I'm pessimistic, but I cannot be as optimistic as you. I hardly doubt the devs will listen. They have yet to squash the broken classes and to help the overnerfed ones in a long while.

This is a labor of love, and at best will be a cheat sheet for them when the EoD prepatch balance hits.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

If I were to advocate for some minor changes, it would affect Rage skills, since they are not being used by anyone is WvW (can't speak for PvP currently), as their utilities are rather subpar when compared to other warrior skills.

• Outrage: A 20 sec CD on a stunbreak is a rather tempting choice. However it's just that. No one would prefer to use this skill instead of our other stun breaks which offer at least 1 more utility, be it dmg ignorance, stability, quickness, might, swiftness. I would propose for Outrage to function as the defensive skill it is meant to be and offer Protection for 3 seconds on activation, with an increased CD of 23 seconds to compensate. Warrior has no other means of granting themselves with Protection and it thematically ties into the Berserker for the toughness loss (unless traited).

• Shattering Blow: The skill's effects may remain the same, as well as its CD, however, again with Outrage, I believe it needs a rework on it's defensive capabilities. Namely, a 'flippable' skill. Summon Rock Guard blocking/deflecting (if traited with Shield Master in the defense line, or maybe passively not sure) all inc attacks for 2.25 seconds in front of you (a 180 degree guard) and have the option to shatter the Rock Guard immediately for double dmg values (4 stacks of bleed, double dmg). Upon the end of the blocking period, the active effect triggers, with it's normal values. The player has 2 stability while using the Rock Guard, with the boon being applied for 3 seconds instead of 2 and it's also a stun break.

• Wild Blow: An increase in range is required for this one. Meele combat can be extremely challenging to pull when enemies can surround themselves with fields of death. Therefore Wild Blow would get a 25 sec CD in exchange for 5 stacks of Might on top of Fury, while changing the original animation into a 400 range Leap. The might can synergize nicely with the 2nd Grandmaster of the strength traitline. Finally it's 100% Critical Chance Increase should last for the next 3 seconds as some form of unique boon, which could synergize well with the Rage Heal (see below).

• Sundering Leap: I can certainly see why the didn't choose to follow the Blast Finisher idea, when Stomp is already a skill. Even so stun would be a good addition to this skill since we are locked into an animation after performing said skill, which can cost the character their life. Increase CD to 30 sec and remove the Cripple effect in exchange for 2 sec of stun/daze. And unlike stomp which launches the enemies away, the warrior is in position to carry out follow up attacks before the enemy recovers from the stun.

• Head Butt: Increase range to 450 and attack speed by 25%. Increase CD to 25sec. A very difficult skill to land since a simple blind cancels it, and the animation is well known by experienced players who evade in time. Another possible change would be the refresh of Berserk CD without granting adrenaline (So when Berserk is ready you can attck immediately, but when it recharges you can sacrifice the elite to end the cooldown more quickly).

• Blood Reckoning: This is a doubled edged knife heal in roaming situations. The Base Heal is too low for sustain and as a skill it is used only to deliver damage bursts. With the character not being able to do so all the time, I believe that Savage Instinct should apply 'Feel No Pain' on the heal for 1 second upon activation, to ensure that it at least provides the Base heal, which should be increased to 4,000, which is still less than 20% off most warriors' health.

I don't believe that what i have described counts a a major buff, rather a better utilization of what the class can already offer, so I stand to be corrected.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:If I were to advocate for some minor changes, it would affect Rage skills, since they are not being used by anyone is WvW (can't speak for PvP currently), as their utilities are rather subpar when compared to other warrior skills.First of all thanks for commenting!

• Outrage: A 20 sec CD on a stunbreak is a rather tempting choice. However it's just that. No one would prefer to use this skill instead of our other stun breaks which offer at least 1 more utility, be it dmg ignorance, stability, quickness, might, swiftness. I would propose for Outrage to function as the defensive skill it is meant to be and offer Protection for 3 seconds on activation, with an increased CD of 23 seconds to compensate. Warrior has no other means of granting themselves with Protection and it thematically ties into the Berserker for the toughness loss (unless traited).I see no reason to increase the CD to be honest. It can be traited to provide Stability and Might on a successful stunbreak. I like the protection idea. Why not a 2s buff outside of Berserk Mode and 4s if within Berserk Mode?
• Shattering Blow: The skill's effects may remain the same, as well as its CD, however, again with Outrage, I believe it needs a rework on it's defensive capabilities. Namely, a 'flippable' skill. Summon Rock Guard blocking/deflecting (if traited with Shield Master in the defense line, or maybe passively not sure) all inc attacks for 2.25 seconds in front of you (a 180 degree guard) and have the option to shatter the Rock Guard immediately for double dmg values (4 stacks of bleed, double dmg). Upon the end of the blocking period, the active effect triggers, with it's normal values. The player has 2 stability while using the Rock Guard, with the boon being applied for 3 seconds instead of 2 and it's also a stun break.I like this concept as well. Why not a frontal guard, not 180 as that would be too wide but something like a 120 degree cone, that blocks for 2.25s at the end it does its normal values as you say, but can be ended early as you suggest for double the effects? I would say that the stab would have to come with the attack not the channel, putting stab on the channel period would be too strong.
• Wild Blow: An increase in range is required for this one. Meele combat can be extremely challenging to pull when enemies can surround themselves with fields of death. Therefore Wild Blow would get a 25 sec CD in exchange for 5 stacks of Might on top of Fury, while changing the original animation into a 400 range Leap. The might can synergize nicely with the 2nd Grandmaster of the strength traitline. Finally it's 100% Critical Chance Increase should last for the next 3 seconds as some form of unique boon, which could synergize well with the Rage Heal (see below).I agree on a small leap. Not sure the extra might helps it at all. Forceful Greatsword will be generating the might for you with the 100% critical chance, no need to add more.
• Sundering Leap: I can certainly see why the didn't choose to follow the Blast Finisher idea, when Stomp is already a skill. Even so stun would be a good addition to this skill since we are locked into an animation after performing said skill, which can cost the character their life. Increase CD to 30 sec and remove the Cripple effect in exchange for 2 sec of stun/daze. And unlike stomp which launches the enemies away, the warrior is in position to carry out follow up attacks before the enemy recovers from the stun.Change it to a 2s daze so the original damage can stay. Making it into a stun would mean it loses its damage. Other than that it could use a longer distance leap in my opinion.
• Head Butt: Increase range to 450 and attack speed by 25%. Increase CD to 25sec. A very difficult skill to land since a simple blind cancels it, and the animation is well known by experienced players who evade in time. Another possible change would be the refresh of Berserk CD without granting adrenaline (So when Berserk is ready you can attck immediately, but when it recharges you can sacrifice the elite to end the cooldown more quickly).I think increasing the speed of the leap would be enough. Keep the Adrenaline gain as it helps pump out more bursts. Add in the Berserk Mode CD reduction for reasons mentioned ad nauseam by all warriors since the Berserker rework.
• Blood Reckoning: This is a doubled edged knife heal in roaming situations. The Base Heal is too low for sustain and as a skill it is used only to deliver damage bursts. With the character not being able to do so all the time, I believe that Savage Instinct should apply 'Feel No Pain' on the heal for 1 second upon activation, to ensure that it at least provides the Base heal, which should be increased to 4,000, which is still less than 20% off most warriors' health.I'd prefer that Savage Instinct apply again when you hit with a Primal Burst, but that would be too much. That said Savage Instinct could also apply to when using Rage skills in general.

So:Savage Instinct:Gain Feel No Pain for 2s when entering Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode now breaks stuns.Gain Feel No Pain for 1s when using a Rage skill.This effect does not stack.

This way you get what you want, but we also address the issue of Berserker's inherent, and very unfair and imbalanced squishiness. This effect would not stack, it would simply apply the new duration over the old one.

I don't believe that what i have described counts a a major buff, rather a better utilization of what the class can already offer, so I stand to be corrected.

The Rock Guard, Sundering Leap, and Savage Instinct changes would all be major buffs, but they may actually make Berserker more viable in the long run.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Grand Marshal.4098" said:If I were to advocate for some minor changes, it would affect Rage skills, since they are not being used by anyone is WvW (can't speak for PvP currently), as their utilities are rather subpar when compared to other warrior skills.First of all thanks for commenting!

• Outrage: A 20 sec CD on a stunbreak is a rather tempting choice. However it's just that. No one would prefer to use this skill instead of our other stun breaks which offer at least 1 more utility, be it dmg ignorance, stability, quickness, might, swiftness. I would propose for Outrage to function as the defensive skill it is meant to be and offer Protection for 3 seconds on activation, with an increased CD of 23 seconds to compensate. Warrior has no other means of granting themselves with Protection and it thematically ties into the Berserker for the toughness loss (unless traited).I see no reason to increase the CD to be honest. It can be traited to provide Stability and Might on a successful stunbreak. I like the protection idea. Why not a 2s buff outside of Berserk Mode and 4s if within Berserk Mode?
• Shattering Blow: The skill's effects may remain the same, as well as its CD, however, again with Outrage, I believe it needs a rework on it's defensive capabilities. Namely, a 'flippable' skill. Summon Rock Guard blocking/deflecting (if traited with Shield Master in the defense line, or maybe passively not sure) all inc attacks for 2.25 seconds in front of you (a 180 degree guard) and have the option to shatter the Rock Guard immediately for double dmg values (4 stacks of bleed, double dmg). Upon the end of the blocking period, the active effect triggers, with it's normal values. The player has 2 stability while using the Rock Guard, with the boon being applied for 3 seconds instead of 2 and it's also a stun break.I like this concept as well. Why not a frontal guard, not 180 as that would be too wide but something like a 120 degree cone, that blocks for 2.25s at the end it does its normal values as you say, but can be ended early as you suggest for double the effects? I would say that the stab would have to come with the attack not the channel, putting stab on the channel period would be too strong.
• Wild Blow: An increase in range is required for this one. Meele combat can be extremely challenging to pull when enemies can surround themselves with fields of death. Therefore Wild Blow would get a 25 sec CD in exchange for 5 stacks of Might on top of Fury, while changing the original animation into a 400 range Leap. The might can synergize nicely with the 2nd Grandmaster of the strength traitline. Finally it's 100% Critical Chance Increase should last for the next 3 seconds as some form of unique boon, which could synergize well with the Rage Heal (see below).I agree on a small leap. Not sure the extra might helps it at all. Forceful Greatsword will be generating the might for you with the 100% critical chance, no need to add more.
• Sundering Leap: I can certainly see why the didn't choose to follow the Blast Finisher idea, when Stomp is already a skill. Even so stun would be a good addition to this skill since we are locked into an animation after performing said skill, which can cost the character their life. Increase CD to 30 sec and remove the Cripple effect in exchange for 2 sec of stun/daze. And unlike stomp which launches the enemies away, the warrior is in position to carry out follow up attacks before the enemy recovers from the stun.Change it to a 2s daze so the original damage can stay. Making it into a stun would mean it loses its damage. Other than that it could use a longer distance leap in my opinion.
• Head Butt: Increase range to 450 and attack speed by 25%. Increase CD to 25sec. A very difficult skill to land since a simple blind cancels it, and the animation is well known by experienced players who evade in time. Another possible change would be the refresh of Berserk CD without granting adrenaline (So when Berserk is ready you can attck immediately, but when it recharges you can sacrifice the elite to end the cooldown more quickly).I think increasing the speed of the leap would be enough. Keep the Adrenaline gain as it helps pump out more bursts. Add in the Berserk Mode CD reduction for reasons mentioned ad nauseam by all warriors since the Berserker rework.
• Blood Reckoning: This is a doubled edged knife heal in roaming situations. The Base Heal is too low for sustain and as a skill it is used only to deliver damage bursts. With the character not being able to do so all the time, I believe that Savage Instinct should apply 'Feel No Pain' on the heal for 1 second upon activation, to ensure that it at least provides the Base heal, which should be increased to 4,000, which is still less than 20% off most warriors' health.I'd prefer that Savage Instinct apply again when you hit with a Primal Burst, but that would be too much. That said Savage Instinct could also apply to when using Rage skills in general.

So:Savage Instinct:Gain Feel No Pain for 2s when entering Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode now breaks stuns.Gain Feel No Pain for 1s when using a Rage skill.This effect does not stack.

This way you get what you want, but we also address the issue of Berserker's inherent, and very unfair and imbalanced squishiness. This effect would not stack, it would simply apply the new duration over the old one.

I don't believe that what i have described counts a a major buff, rather a better utilization of what the class can already offer, so I stand to be corrected.

The Rock Guard, Sundering Leap, and Savage Instinct changes would all be major buffs, but they may actually make Berserker more viable in the long run.

1) I like the Outrage idea for more protection uptime while in Berserk! Perhaps we can maintain the current CD.2) I agree again. Since it would be a stunbreak, Stability after casting would be more beneficial since we dont block anymore and more fair since we can get interrupted while Blocking (outside the cone).3)Good point. I tried to make it more usable, but I guess there are more ways. How about inflicting weakness to make it go with Cull of the Weak, or Retaliation since we go on the offensive after using it? Or a burst of Superspeed? I just think it needs something more.4)Agreed! I had in mind this skill as Berserker's "Bull's Charge" in offering mobility and stun without dispotitioning the target. Maybe 900 Range accordingly? And a 1/4 sec evade frame? But we gotta maintain the damage yes.5)Agreed again. I just think that some extra range makes it easier to land. I guess it is situational.6)So similarly to Gyros providing Superspeed? As in all skills offer it, but each new cast cancels the previous Superspeed apply, but with Feel No Pain this time.

Of course i can work without Savage Instinct in all Rage skills if it is going to be regarded as a buff, but Rock Guard and the Leap would be too minor changes to call this an OP class after the 'hypothetical' changes. Mind that we didnt talk about condi removal at all, only flat and total damage negates/modifiers. Introducing resistance and or cleanse upon going Berserk would end up a bit more op than intended.

Although i dance with the idea of cleansing 3 conditions upon entering and leaving Berserk mode (no need for discipline, and more use out of an F2 skill that drops berserk).

Thanks for replying to me :)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:If I were to advocate for some minor changes, it would affect Rage skills, since they are not being used by anyone is WvW (can't speak for PvP currently), as their utilities are rather subpar when compared to other warrior skills.First of all thanks for commenting!

• Outrage: A 20 sec CD on a stunbreak is a rather tempting choice. However it's just that. No one would prefer to use this skill instead of our other stun breaks which offer at least 1 more utility, be it dmg ignorance, stability, quickness, might, swiftness. I would propose for Outrage to function as the defensive skill it is meant to be and offer Protection for 3 seconds on activation, with an increased CD of 23 seconds to compensate. Warrior has no other means of granting themselves with Protection and it thematically ties into the Berserker for the toughness loss (unless traited).I see no reason to increase the CD to be honest. It can be traited to provide Stability and Might on a successful stunbreak. I like the protection idea. Why not a 2s buff outside of Berserk Mode and 4s if within Berserk Mode?
• Shattering Blow: The skill's effects may remain the same, as well as its CD, however, again with Outrage, I believe it needs a rework on it's defensive capabilities. Namely, a 'flippable' skill. Summon Rock Guard blocking/deflecting (if traited with Shield Master in the defense line, or maybe passively not sure) all inc attacks for 2.25 seconds in front of you (a 180 degree guard) and have the option to shatter the Rock Guard immediately for double dmg values (4 stacks of bleed, double dmg). Upon the end of the blocking period, the active effect triggers, with it's normal values. The player has 2 stability while using the Rock Guard, with the boon being applied for 3 seconds instead of 2 and it's also a stun break.I like this concept as well. Why not a frontal guard, not 180 as that would be too wide but something like a 120 degree cone, that blocks for 2.25s at the end it does its normal values as you say, but can be ended early as you suggest for double the effects? I would say that the stab would have to come with the attack not the channel, putting stab on the channel period would be too strong.
• Wild Blow: An increase in range is required for this one. Meele combat can be extremely challenging to pull when enemies can surround themselves with fields of death. Therefore Wild Blow would get a 25 sec CD in exchange for 5 stacks of Might on top of Fury, while changing the original animation into a 400 range Leap. The might can synergize nicely with the 2nd Grandmaster of the strength traitline. Finally it's 100% Critical Chance Increase should last for the next 3 seconds as some form of unique boon, which could synergize well with the Rage Heal (see below).I agree on a small leap. Not sure the extra might helps it at all. Forceful Greatsword will be generating the might for you with the 100% critical chance, no need to add more.
• Sundering Leap: I can certainly see why the didn't choose to follow the Blast Finisher idea, when Stomp is already a skill. Even so stun would be a good addition to this skill since we are locked into an animation after performing said skill, which can cost the character their life. Increase CD to 30 sec and remove the Cripple effect in exchange for 2 sec of stun/daze. And unlike stomp which launches the enemies away, the warrior is in position to carry out follow up attacks before the enemy recovers from the stun.Change it to a 2s daze so the original damage can stay. Making it into a stun would mean it loses its damage. Other than that it could use a longer distance leap in my opinion.
• Head Butt: Increase range to 450 and attack speed by 25%. Increase CD to 25sec. A very difficult skill to land since a simple blind cancels it, and the animation is well known by experienced players who evade in time. Another possible change would be the refresh of Berserk CD without granting adrenaline (So when Berserk is ready you can attck immediately, but when it recharges you can sacrifice the elite to end the cooldown more quickly).I think increasing the speed of the leap would be enough. Keep the Adrenaline gain as it helps pump out more bursts. Add in the Berserk Mode CD reduction for reasons mentioned ad nauseam by all warriors since the Berserker rework.
• Blood Reckoning: This is a doubled edged knife heal in roaming situations. The Base Heal is too low for sustain and as a skill it is used only to deliver damage bursts. With the character not being able to do so all the time, I believe that Savage Instinct should apply 'Feel No Pain' on the heal for 1 second upon activation, to ensure that it at least provides the Base heal, which should be increased to 4,000, which is still less than 20% off most warriors' health.I'd prefer that Savage Instinct apply again when you hit with a Primal Burst, but that would be too much. That said Savage Instinct could also apply to when using Rage skills in general.

So:Savage Instinct:Gain Feel No Pain for 2s when entering Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode now breaks stuns.Gain Feel No Pain for 1s when using a Rage skill.This effect does not stack.

This way you get what you want, but we also address the issue of Berserker's inherent, and very unfair and imbalanced squishiness. This effect would not stack, it would simply apply the new duration over the old one.

I don't believe that what i have described counts a a major buff, rather a better utilization of what the class can already offer, so I stand to be corrected.

The Rock Guard, Sundering Leap, and Savage Instinct changes would all be major buffs, but they may actually make Berserker more viable in the long run.

1) I like the Outrage idea for more protection uptime while in Berserk! Perhaps we can maintain the current CD.Yea verily let it be so.2) I agree again. Since it would be a stunbreak, Stability after casting would be more beneficial since we dont block anymore and more fair since we can get interrupted while Blocking (outside the cone).I'm not too keen on the stunbreak, but the spec over all DOES over a lot of stunbreaks already, and it would offer more synergy with Eternal Champion, which would give you the stability anyway. That said the skill needs counter play, your foe needs the chance to outplay you if they can otherwise it becomes an I win button. I say remove the stunbreak, keep the stab when it activates, double the stacks if you end it early.3)Good point. I tried to make it more usable, but I guess there are more ways. How about inflicting weakness to make it go with Cull of the Weak, or Retaliation since we go on the offensive after using it? Or a burst of Superspeed? I just think it needs something more.If Savage Instinct applies FNP for 1s on using a rage skill then you don't need anything more than the damage, the 10 stacks of vulnerability and the daze. The 600 range still feels short to me, but again, counter play is needed.4)Agreed! I had in mind this skill as Berserker's "Bull's Charge" in offering mobility and stun without dispotitioning the target. Maybe 900 Range accordingly? And a 1/4 sec evade frame? But we gotta maintain the damage yes.I'm assuming we are skill talking about sundering leap here. 900 range feels right. With the change to Savage Instance granting FNP for 1s on rage skill use the evade frames will not be needed.5)Agreed again. I just think that some extra range makes it easier to land. I guess it is situational.If Headbutt comes out faster the extra range will not be needed. Its easy to land at point blank range by the way, or time it to hit at the end of their dodge.6)So similarly to Gyros providing Superspeed? As in all skills offer it, but each new cast cancels the previous Superspeed apply, but with Feel No Pain this time.

Of course i can work without Savage Instinct in all Rage skills if it is going to be regarded as a buff, but Rock Guard and the Leap would be too minor changes to call this an OP class after the 'hypothetical' changes. Mind that we didnt talk about condi removal at all, only flat and total damage negates/modifiers. Introducing resistance and or cleanse upon going Berserk would end up a bit more op than intended.

Although i dance with the idea of cleansing 3 conditions upon entering and leaving Berserk mode (no need for discipline, and more use out of an F2 skill that drops berserk).Feel No Pain only applies to physical damage. The spec should be resilient to it. But it also needs a weakness. Every espec and core class needs a weakness. For Necros it's CC spamming them for instance. I know some people want more built in condi management on the espec, but I have to disagree just from a fair gameplay perspective. We don't want to create Holo 2.0.

If you need condi removal there is Mending, "Shake it Off!", Shrug it Off, Cleansing Ire, Warhorn, Torch, Sigil of Cleansing, Brawler's Recovery, and numerous rune sets that help with that. Cleansing Ire will clear 3 condi when entering Berserk Mode if it procs btw.

Thanks for replying to me :)No problem! Thanks for contributing. Berserker is one of the final pieces that few people have brought up in this thread. As I mention in the beginning, I don't want this to be Lan Deathrider's change request, but an effort from the warrior community as a whole. I'll pull over @Vancho.8750 's commentary from his thread later and wrap up the Berserker Changes, although I'd like for him to bring it over himself so that we can coordinate.

[DKRathalos.9625]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:So:Savage Instinct:Gain Feel No Pain for 2s when entering Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode now breaks stuns.Gain Feel No Pain for 1s when using a Rage skill.This effect does not stack.

This way you get what you want, but we also address the issue of Berserker's inherent, and very unfair and imbalanced squishiness. This effect would not stack, it would simply apply the new duration over the old one.

I don't believe that what i have described counts a a major buff, rather a better utilization of what the class can already offer, so I stand to be corrected.

The Rock Guard, Sundering Leap, and Savage Instinct changes would all be major buffs, but they may actually make Berserker more viable in the long run.

I'd say for PvP/WvW the 2 secs when enter berserk and 1s after using rage is way to short?Make it 3 secs when enter berserk to get in line with the 3 secs superspeed and 3 secs quickness will be good and 2 secs after using rage is good or 1,5s.

To be honest the current feel no pain feels nothing as in I haven't really feel the benefit because of how short it is, so increasing duration can be good.