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Tengu could be a useable races on EOD


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@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:It can be an option. I still think next expac should introduce a secondary character companion, like a hero that you can equip with its own gear and profession. You can swap to them outside of combat to play as them. They could have Tengu, or any other playable race they want to add. You get your glamour wars for new races, anet gets profit off the outfits people buy, there you go.

Why would we need heroes? It's an MMO.

Ok Heroes was a bad comparison. It would be an alternate character you are able to swap to at a push of a button, with its own stats, race, weapons, armor, etc. your main character takes a bench, and you control the alt character.

Kinda like the existing template system, to a degree?

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@theoneparttwo.9561 said:No. Non. Nope. Nein. Nyet. Never. Nuh-uh.

There are a million and a half reasons why it won't happen, and continuing to beat that dead horse is likely what led us to having that malformed Pegasus skin for the Griffon. The devs used a group of necromancers to reanimate the desecrated corpse of said dead horse and sold it in the gem shop. Please, for the sake of the malformed Pegasus, just stop already with these posts! ( :tongue: )

Once upon a time these forums were filled with posts that said there would never be mounts and to stop flogging a dead horse asking for them... I guess you were not around then...

Except mounts didn't requires Anet to rework all their available armor skins to implement ... a new race like Tengu most likely does. Considering how LITTLE value adding a new race to the game actually has ... it's very likely you won't see it being playable.

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That is why the way I see it. They won't do a new race unless that re-build a lot of the character customizability ("fashion wars") content. It is a big chunk of "content" with a lot of controversies, with armor weight mixing, outfits providing streamline customizations, hair removal, and clipping here and there and everywhere. This is arguably a more important issue in the game. But if such a re-work makes rigging a new race vastly easier, I could see it as icing on the cake.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@theoneparttwo.9561 said:No. Non. Nope. Nein. Nyet. Never. Nuh-uh.

There are a million and a half reasons why it won't happen, and continuing to beat that dead horse is likely what led us to having that malformed Pegasus skin for the Griffon. The devs used a group of necromancers to reanimate the desecrated corpse of said dead horse and sold it in the gem shop. Please, for the sake of the malformed Pegasus, just stop already with these posts! ( :tongue: )

Once upon a time these forums were filled with posts that said there would never be mounts and to stop flogging a dead horse asking for them... I guess you were not around then...

Except mounts didn't requires Anet to rework
all
their available armor skins to implement ... a new race like Tengu most likely does. Considering how LITTLE value adding a new race to the game actually has ... it's very likely you won't see it being playable.

Mounts required Anet to come up with a lot of different mounts/skills and mount skins, which is also a lot of work... and I never asked for Tengu to be playable... I want Awakened. Also I personally think adding a new race adds a lot of value to the game and that it is actually quite likely that they will add one with EoD.

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Since race doesn't add much to actual playability (all races have the same skills, attributes, etc.) of the game, it'd be interesting if they played with the concept of tonics a bit more.

How about a story mission that gets us a tengu tonic? Make a few tonics to choose the appearance/style of the tengu. Make the tonic a combat tonic, but rather than keeping your own skills, you get tengu skills, both weapon and utility on a fixed bar, so one build) (tied to the type of tonic you choose) but keep your character's stats. So basically a warrior would be better equipped as far as gear goes to choose the "warrior tengu" from the tonic list. You can eventually get all the tonics, so if you have the gear you can build for a "ranger tengu" for example even if your main is actually a asura elementalist for example.

From a lore perspective, acquiring the tonic is how we first get into the Dominion of the Winds, etc. Maybe this is how we solidify an alliance (although I assume the tengu would be pissed off by being tricked).

Anyway, this allows everyone to become a playable tengu. It also gives us new play mechanics (skills, transformation system beyond just novelty, etc.). It fits into the story, and basically allows us to have a "starter area" experience without having to haphazardly deal with weaving a new playable race into the game and spending time making existing weapons, armor, etc. fit. It has replayablity since people can go collect all the tonics to access all the different tengu looks and professions. It adds another level to the character build system. This system could be continually built upon so that the player character can basically have an alter-ego that changes the way they play. Why even stop at tengu, more races, skills, animations, could be slowly implemented over time. Anet could even monitize it by allowing cosmetic gem store tonics that keep the skills of the in-game tonics but change the design of the character (warrior tengu with other colors, armor, etc.).

For me, this would be more interesting from a gameplay standpoint and more seamless from a lore standpoint. If these tonics are able to be used in PvP, WvW and PvE, then a lot of thought is going to have to go into balancing them since it would be essentially making new professions without player customizable utlity builds (minus the ability for characters to switch back and forth outside of combat and find interesting ways to synergize their main build with a transformation build).

Maybe something like this will be the new game changing feature in the next expac. Who knows?!

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Oh yeah, and if you have gliding unlocked (which most characters playing EoD probably would), then in tengu form you know...you just glide with your tengu wings.

Being able to ride mounts while transformed, that will probably depend on some balance things. I am sure Anet doesn't want people to run around as a tengu 100% of the time and replace their main character. So they will probably have to find certain ways to hamstring the system.

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@theoneparttwo.9561 said:No. Non. Nope. Nein. Nyet. Never. Nuh-uh.

There are a million and a half reasons why it won't happen, and continuing to beat that dead horse is likely what led us to having that malformed Pegasus skin for the Griffon. The devs used a group of necromancers to reanimate the desecrated corpse of said dead horse and sold it in the gem shop. Please, for the sake of the malformed Pegasus, just stop already with these posts! ( :tongue: )

Once upon a time these forums were filled with posts that said there would never be mounts and to stop flogging a dead horse asking for them... I guess you were not around then...

Except mounts didn't requires Anet to rework
all
their available armor skins to implement ... a new race like Tengu most likely does. Considering how LITTLE value adding a new race to the game actually has ... it's very likely you won't see it being playable.

Mounts required Anet to come up with a lot of different mounts/skills and mount skins, which is also a lot of work...

Sure ... but not even CLOSE to the amount of work that would be required to make Tengu a playable class with all the existing skins. Maybe you don't think that difference matters ... I can assure you it does. Making this race playable is a cosmetic implementation and for the work, there are better choices Anet could make to assign resources if they just want to add cosmetics to the game.

I mean, it's not even JUST about the amount of work either and other people have pointed these reasons out many times over the years. I get your point is to not say Anet won't do something ... but that's not what people have done here ... they have given reasons (and good ones) why it's very unlikely to happen. Frankly, if Anet were to introduce a new playable class as an expansion feature we all pay for ... I would SERIOUSLY question their commitment to delivering content that has VALUE to the majority of the playerbase.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:It can be an option. I still think next expac should introduce a secondary character companion, like a hero that you can equip with its own gear and profession. You can swap to them outside of combat to play as them. They could have Tengu, or any other playable race they want to add. You get your glamour wars for new races, anet gets profit off the outfits people buy, there you go.

Why would we need heroes? It's an MMO.

They had heroes in GW1

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@VocalThought.9835 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:It can be an option. I still think next expac should introduce a secondary character companion, like a hero that you can equip with its own gear and profession. You can swap to them outside of combat to play as them. They could have Tengu, or any other playable race they want to add. You get your glamour wars for new races, anet gets profit off the outfits people buy, there you go.

Why would we need heroes? It's an MMO.

They had heroes in GW1

And GW1 aint a MMO

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How about a story mission that gets us a tengu tonic? Make a few tonics to choose the appearance/style of the tengu. Make the tonic a combat tonic, but rather than keeping your own skills, you get tengu skills, both weapon and utility on a fixed bar, so one build) (tied to the type of tonic you choose) but keep your character's stats. So basically a warrior would be better equipped as far as gear goes to choose the "warrior tengu" from the tonic list. You can eventually get all the tonics, so if you have the gear you can build for a "ranger tengu" for example even if your main is actually a asura elementalist for example.

You missed the ursanway right ?

Never do that again anet, please.

Except mounts didn't requires Anet to rework all their available armor skins to implement ... a new race like Tengu most likely does.

It doesn't.

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@theoneparttwo.9561 said:No. Non. Nope. Nein. Nyet. Never. Nuh-uh.

There are a million and a half reasons why it won't happen, and continuing to beat that dead horse is likely what led us to having that malformed Pegasus skin for the Griffon. The devs used a group of necromancers to reanimate the desecrated corpse of said dead horse and sold it in the gem shop. Please, for the sake of the malformed Pegasus, just stop already with these posts! ( :tongue: )

WE do not speak of the abomination chimera of the void of many-faces!!!

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Dark Red Killian.3946 said:It can be an option. I still think next expac should introduce a secondary character companion, like a hero that you can equip with its own gear and profession. You can swap to them outside of combat to play as them. They could have Tengu, or any other playable race they want to add. You get your glamour wars for new races, anet gets profit off the outfits people buy, there you go.

Why would we need heroes? It's an MMO.

I guess you never played Star wars the old republic... it is an MMO and it has companion characters.

I remember that 3 manning all the dungeons with 2dps 1 healer and my companion as tank.

Heh I remember soloing all those dungeons with a dps companion. SWTOR is an older and more poorly designed game in so many respects, but until very recently they did allow for a wide range of playstyles to succeed in their dungeons. Stealth actually had value, and you could solo even the hard modes with a variety of combinations (player tank/companion dps, player healer/companion tank, etc). People talk like build diversity is absolutely everything when it comes to freedom in GW2, but I emphatically disagree. There are ways to design encounters that allow for a fairly restricted set of builds to still find different paths to success, and I think that sort of freedom matters just as much as the build diversity everyone is always screaming about.

But yeah, been following this thread, looking through older ones, and reading other stuff about Tengu... and I have to conclude that it will take a lot of work for almost no value added to the game (aside from tickling the 'aficionados').

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@Balsa.3951 said:I explain for everyone who want tengu

Anet is a company who need think about cost of production in relation to how much money they can get from it.

here the workload to implement tengu

[A bunch of stuff]

Here are the wins for anet[not much stuff]

Sadly this.

Look at even WoW these days - all their new races for the recent spat of xPacs are like the mount skins here - now your Britney Spears Elf comes in smurf colors, $X please.

Tengu should have been there at guild wars 2 launch when the lore was actually begging for them to be included - so much so that it looks like they were half made and then stopped because somebody wanted 'XXX-anime plant girls' which itself got canned because somebody else on the project said 'WT-kitten', who let the ghost of Roddenberry in here, and made them redo the Sylvari (thankfully).

But um, yeah... too late now.

A new race that shared the body frame of an existing one could be doable. But we already have Norn and Human which basically a walking advert for growth hormones and nothing more... At least WoW made their new elves in funny colors and their goats in glow...

At launch, the game should have had Skritt, Tengu, and Dredge. I'd argue Centaur too because back then mounts were not on the plan that we know of... But doing any one of these now is a big budget refactor of a lot of existing content for not much gain.

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@"Theuone.7895" said:To be fair, you're all talking about how much work it'd take to implement Yengu, but do we actually know how much MORE work that they have left to do? I'd like to think that Arenanet's already been working on them and keeping the data on tight wraps in prep for End Of Dragons.

The question is less "how much" work implementing a new race is. The argument is more "how much work in comparison to the little impact a new race has on the game it is". I'll explain this in short, since you're new, for more detail use the forum's search engine for the bazillion other tengu threads.

In GW2 your race, beside the obvious cosmetics of it, stops mattering from a gameplay perspective after the first 6 or so missions of your personal story. In other games such as WoW, your race determines what classes you can and can't play for example, in GW2 every race can play every class, so race doesn't matter. In other games, your characters race might determine where you can and can't go on the world, again in GW2 this is not the case. In D&D for example, your race determines some of your stats, in GW2 it doesn't. This is what I and others mean, when we say that "race doesn't add much to the game" and this is where the discusion around "are the resources to implement a new race well spent, if the outcome stops mattering after maybe one hour of actual gameplay"

Most of the arguments for a new playable race are from a cosmetic point of view, i.e. that people want to play as birds/rats/oozes and that is the only argument I can kinda get behind. All other arguments that are usually made, like "we need to learn more about their lore", or "We need to see the dominion of winds map" are valid arguments but can be accomplished without going through the hassle of actually making playable Tengu. We can learn more about their lore and visit the dominion of winds as part of a story that involves the tengu, no need to spend resources on creating a new playble race for that.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:New playable races would be a welcome change.

How so? What would a new race really change that a tonic wouldn't handle?

Don't mis-understand me, I am not implying a tonic may not work. What I am saying is there have been enough requests for this over 7-8 years that it would tend to show there is an interest, at least from the sampling seen on the forums and over region chats thru the years. Charr fan myself, but could see buying more toon slots to allow for a new race and builds. It's one of those money left on the table type transactions they are missing.

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@waxx.3619 said:Kind of don't see it. Because that means Anet will have to create some new personal stories. 2012 Anet sure but I just don't see the 2020 Anet team to create something like this again.

As far as ANet doing anything, that's up to the business and gem store directors along with any analysts. What's the scope, what the resources, what's the return based on stats they already have. Along with that scope though is, does it need a personal story? Are there other options? To me, no it doesn't. 31 character spots. Maybe 1 all the way thru the story, most never started it. Didn't stop them from getting to 80. Besides there is a case study out there for approaches to this, WoW has a number of them. Don't need to reinvent the wheel here. Not to mention, do they just need an intro story, plenty of those options coming up.

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@"Vavume.8065" said:I don't get all the love for Tengu, walking around like an advert for KFC is just not my thing, give me the Awakened as a playable race, I want to play an Undead Rogue Thief again.

As everyone tells me when I want shapeshifting, go play WoW. Because its there in that game and "GuIlD WaRs Is UnIqUe REEEEEE!"

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Vavume.8065" said:I don't get all the love for Tengu, walking around like an advert for KFC is just not my thing, give me the Awakened as a playable race, I want to play an Undead
Rogue
Thief again.

As everyone tells me when I want shapeshifting, go play WoW. Because its there in that game and "GuIlD WaRs Is UnIqUe REEEEEE!"

We got it here aswell necromancers shapeshift and norn racial elites.EditI think there is a good reason why anet wouldent want animal shifting because it would kill fasion wars and those players wouldent buy the new shiney from the gem store.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@"Vavume.8065" said:I don't get all the love for Tengu, walking around like an advert for KFC is just not my thing, give me the Awakened as a playable race, I want to play an Undead
Rogue
Thief again.

As everyone tells me when I want shapeshifting, go play WoW. Because its there in that game and "GuIlD WaRs Is UnIqUe REEEEEE!"

We got it here aswell necromancers shapeshift and norn racial elites.EditI think there is a good reason why anet wouldent want animal shifting because it would kill fasion wars and those players wouldent buy the new shiney from the gem store.

I mean The racial elites are hot garbage, Necromancer really shouldn't count as Im not talking about a timed form that is only there for a moment. Im talking about being a giant monster all the time and that being the playstyle; Like I said he should play wow because thats whatever one else says when anyone askes for anything. "Go play this, go play that" rather than allowing people to ask A-net for anything. Like me he isn't welcome here, nor is anyone who wants anything different than what is and what has been because guild wars 2 will never be more than that.

Accept that and move on.

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