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Still no talk about balance changes


Al Masone.1274

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Back in july I honestly thought they were getting more open about balance, at least once every 2-3 months, but now we're in november and there's still silence about one of, if not the most important aspect of the game.I expect more than just some change to be coming with the next living story episode, but the good thing about last time was the posts Anet made before going through with the changes.

And no, the fact many people complained right after they saw the changes does not justify the silence. Being hard at work on living story/ new xpac does not justify it either. Basically there's no justification for writing a couple posts every now and then to show in advance what they're working on... assuming they're working on it of course.I'm not demanding anything, but it is quite sad that they ditched the whole "be more transparent" thing

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They got reassigned mostly to the new expansion. I think Anet, due to budgetary reasons, is focusing everything on paid PvE content in order to get more cash flow. If they do not get it out in a timely manner, and done right, they may be in a financial pickle and your balance concerns will be meaningless.

Just my observation, but I think if EoD flops they may go under. So if any of you other forumites read this then go buy some gems to support the devs.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:They got reassigned mostly to the new expansion. I think Anet, due to budgetary reasons, is focusing everything on paid PvE content in order to get more cash flow. If they do not get it out in a timely manner, and done right, they may be in a financial pickle and your balance concerns will be meaningless.

Just my observation, but I think if EoD flops they may go under. So if any of you other forumites read this then go buy some gems to support the devs.

Thing is, asking people to just buy gems for the sake of buying gems isn't the way to go about it. If anet deserves more because they make a successful game with good balance and content, then ppl will happily spend money without having to ask them. On the other hand, poor managing and decision making leaves players frustrated making them less inclined to do so. In short, the money spent by players is in REACTION to what anet does and not the other way around. You don't ask people to give a tip BEFORE even receiving the service/goods they asked for, that would be ridiculous. And it's exactly the same thing here. Anet can only blame themselves if they go under and it's the only way they will learn.

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its a shame too because PvE balance is desperately needed. I don't just mean specific classes but also environments. Anet needs to adjust the enemies to properly be fightable without melting with the Ferocity and condition stacking power creep that occurred years ago along with Dungeon rewards to bridge the gap between new and old players.

For classes, since we are on the profession forums There are some issues with over stagnation of endgame metas like fractals and Raids. You look at team comps and the required becomes identical even across more casual groups.

Some classes I feel need some TLC. Necromancer, Elementalist and engineer all need some help in their support builds and Necromancer and Warrior probably could use some help with their damage builds. Although PvE gets most of the content, It largely gets ignored when it comes to balance which is a mistake in my opinion.

Outside of that Boons need to be checked better in competitive modes. After the numerous nerfs to Scourge and necromancer boons have only increased in power and run rampant. Scourge and core necromancer need some of their boon removal restored as well as Boon removal to be given more liberally across the board. Engineer, Mesmer, Thief should all have much higher boon stripping abilities. ESPECIALLY the Mesmer. On that note although i do believe Mesmer should have much stronger boon stripping than It currently does the boon strip from Mind Spike on sword Auto attack should absolutely be removed and a boon strip should be placed on Illusionary Leap or Swap instead.

Boon stripping is an active form of play that Anet unjustly keeps nerfing when it should rightfully be spread out and improved across the board. Give me Acidic Elixirs that Corrupt boons into Poison on engineer. Give me Boon corrupt into Confusion on Mesmer. Lets improve boon removal on thief that converts it into life steal or something like that. Make it so Necromancer isn't the only Class that can dedicate to this niche(And I guess spellbreaker too).

On another Note, Some skills need to be seriously looked at. Minions and Turrets also need to be addressed as these are extremely popular Builds for new players and they under preform. Although Minions KINDA works there isn't an End game equivalent to this build and Turrets are only used to Afk farming.

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I don't get this expectation or complaint ... anet doesn't 'talk' about balance changes with players since ... ever? I mean, when they do, it's so vague and infrequent that no one should expect it to happen, especially with any sort of regularity, that's for certain. It makes no sense to complain expectations you create for Anet.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:I don't get this expectation or complaint ... anet doesn't 'talk' about balance changes with players since ... ever? I mean, when they do, it's so vague and infrequent that no one should expect it to happen, especially with any sort of regularity, that's for certain. It makes no sense to complain expectations you create for Anet.

Are you literally not seeing the sticky'd post by anet?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109025/upcoming-balance-notes/p1

Before this, they posted another asking for feedback and made changes before it went live.

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@Smoosh.2718 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I don't get this expectation or complaint ... anet doesn't 'talk' about balance changes with players since ... ever? I mean, when they do, it's so vague and infrequent that no one should expect it to happen, especially with any sort of regularity, that's for certain. It makes no sense to complain expectations you create for Anet.

Are you literally not seeing the sticky'd post by anet?

Before this, they posted another asking for feedback and made changes before it went live.

No, but I have 8 years of history playing this game ...

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@ArielRebel.3426 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:They got reassigned mostly to the new expansion. I think Anet, due to budgetary reasons, is focusing everything on paid PvE content in order to get more cash flow. If they do not get it out in a timely manner, and done right, they may be in a financial pickle and your balance concerns will be meaningless.

Just my observation, but I think if EoD flops they may go under. So if any of you other forumites read this then go buy some gems to support the devs.

Thing is, asking people to just buy gems for the sake of buying gems isn't the way to go about it. If anet deserves more because they make a successful game with good balance and content, then ppl will happily spend money without having to ask them. On the other hand, poor managing and decision making leaves players frustrated making them less inclined to do so. In short, the money spent by players is in REACTION to what anet does and not the other way around. You don't ask people to give a tip BEFORE even receiving the service/goods they asked for, that would be ridiculous. And it's exactly the same thing here. Anet can only blame themselves if they go under and it's the only way they will learn.

I'm not disagreeing with you since you are 100% right. My statement though is more of a hunch based on recent events that they may be in a do or die moment and need the influx of money that a new expansion would bring or they may go under and then balance is moot. So, getting some gems would at least relieve financial pressure. Grant it though it would take more than us forum lurkers to do that.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:They got reassigned mostly to the new expansion. I think Anet, due to budgetary reasons, is focusing everything on paid PvE content in order to get more cash flow. If they do not get it out in a timely manner, and done right, they may be in a financial pickle and your balance concerns will be meaningless.

Just my observation, but I think if EoD flops they may go under. So if any of you other forumites read this then go buy some gems to support the devs.

Thing is, asking people to just buy gems for the sake of buying gems isn't the way to go about it. If anet deserves more because they make a successful game with good balance and content, then ppl will happily spend money without having to ask them. On the other hand, poor managing and decision making leaves players frustrated making them less inclined to do so. In short, the money spent by players is in REACTION to what anet does and not the other way around. You don't ask people to give a tip BEFORE even receiving the service/goods they asked for, that would be ridiculous. And it's exactly the same thing here. Anet can only blame themselves if they go under and it's the only way they will learn.

I'm not disagreeing with you since you are 100% right. My statement though is more of a hunch based on recent events that they may be in a do or die moment and need the influx of money that a new expansion would bring or they may go under and then balance is moot. So, getting some gems would at least relieve financial pressure. Grant it though it would take more than us forum lurkers to do that.

I understand your point and see that it comes with affection for the game, hoping it does well and better. Sadly, I'v seen it happen with many of my favorite franchises. You really want the game to do well but it flops, pushing most of it's playerbase away (and a good chunk of it's dedicated fans that were in it from previous title(s)) so less people spend money on the game, so the publishers pull ressources away to put them onto another project which diminishes the game's quality and/or content's quantity being released (because you have less devs on it) which turns even more people away so less money from players is coming in, so even more devs are reattributed to other projects, etc. etc. It's a never ending cycle until the publishers pull the plug and either let the franchise die or they make a new title from scratch. BF5 is the best example for it. It flopped harder than any previous title of the franchise (maybe not in terms of sells, but most definitly in terms of playerbase and popularity) and so, instead of working hard to fix the issues, they simply pulled the plug, dumped all the content that was being worked on and re-attributed the devs and ressources to other projects and bf6. It was one of the shortest lives of any bf title.

All that to say, if the publishers aren't dedicated to the title and don't want to work/invest harder (exactly because the game is having difficulties) to fix the messes in the game, then nothing we can do will turn the situation around. Remember the good old days where passion from a studio meant something? Sadly now it's all about the money. The moment a game isn't racking in a certain sum of money per month, the plug is pulled and everybody is put on the next new project/title. Only studio that I could say is really dedicated to quality would be CDPR as shown with witcher 3 and how they are ready to push back Cyberpunk's release eventho they will lose a lot of money from doing that because it frustrated a lot of potential players and investers/share holders. Ubi did also show a lot of dedication with For Honor (the game died rather quickly yet they continued and still do to this day support it and release patches regularly). But yeah, I sadly highly doubt ANET and their parent companie(s) feel the same about investing even more ressources in an 8 years old game that is MUCH less popular than it used to be and probably doesn't bring in "enough" money to the eyes of the publishers and parent companies and/or shareholders and investers.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Just my observation, but I think if EoD flops they may go under. So if any of you other forumites read this then go buy some gems to support the devs.

To be fair, the quality of content they have put out for PvE (openworld) isn't that great either.

Compared to the quality we got from HoT, everything was a massive step down.

Personally I think it all went downhill when they made the decision to double down on Living World, but have no idea how to monetize it.

And it's not like people haven't been begging for an expansion as soon as LW4 was completed.

But instead they are spending alot of resources now making an expansion which may he coming too late when they could have planned and fleshed out what comes after LW4 into an Expansion.

And as far as I can see, LW5 has been mostly a hit or miss, with the goods being barely passable and the bads being left to rot and map being emptied faster than Kourna ever had. (I mention Kourna because imo it was the worst map in the entire LW4, especially since it was a climatic battle map where a big bad was taken out on)

I can even go further to nitpick on several things I felt could be done better but I'm just gonna sit and see what they have for us in EoD.

EoD, like yu say, is gonna either save the game if it succeeds or kill it if it flops, all because it came too late. (My opinion is it came too late)

Positive alternative:

Gw2 is a mega hit on Steam and we can thrive with more players populating all maps.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:The story in the LW releases has been good, and I liked all the maps (not you Kourna), but they were free if you were logged in during release. They left money on the table there which is why they are in a bind now I think.

Like I said, do or die. If EoD flops then I doubt a balance patch will happen anytime soon.

As far as my guess goes, expansion is coming in fall of 2021. If there is no patch anytime soon things are going to even go more stale than they already are.

I do not think EOD will flop. Based on the map design direction recently (except last map), we are moving away from hearts and back into events, which is so much better design. Things are also a bit harder. Most definitely both maps and story will be better than PoF. Much better. But... I think it will not do great nevertheless. The game is losing steam and is going stale. High quality of more of the same, would be nice, but it is more of the same.

GW2 is stuck since HoT in terms of combat. If the new mastery does not revolve around combat (and not the pick your color crap in LWS5) I do think that is it. The game won’t go under but will go in semi maintenances mode.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:The story in the LW releases has been good, and I liked all the maps (not you Kourna), but they were free if you were logged in during release. They left money on the table there which is why they are in a bind now I think.

Like I said, do or die. If EoD flops then I doubt a balance patch will happen anytime soon.

As far as my guess goes, expansion is coming in fall of 2021. If there is no patch anytime soon things are going to even go more stale than they already are.

I do not think EOD will flop. Based on the map design direction recently (except last map), we are moving away from hearts and back into events, which is so much better design. Things are also a bit harder. Most definitely both maps and story will be better than PoF. Much better. But... I think it will not do great nevertheless. The game is losing steam and is going stale. High quality of more of the same, would be nice, but it is more of the same.

GW2 is stuck since HoT in terms of combat. If the new mastery does not revolve around combat (and not the pick your color kitten in LWS5) I do think that is it. The game won’t go under but will go in semi maintenances mode.

Semi maintenance mode means no more balance. EoD needs to do well. Who knows, maybe there is fresh PvP and WvW content that will get released with EoD. I hope that you are right in that there are new Masteries that change combat a little. GW1 was great in that with each new expansion there were new skills to liven up the game.

I recall reading somewhere where someone suggested they release entire new core traitlines with EoD rather than e-specs. That would add some spice to the game.

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The real balance Patch is coming twice a year, which is not a good thing for a game like GW2. You have a lot of skills to fix, and doing it all at once is a bad idea. Certainly what will happen is that Anet will fix some and mess up others.They definitely should take the system of Path Of Exile, the balance Patch comes every 3 months.PoE has a specific server to test the patch, and so they can see what is good and what is bad. What is good stays and the bad leaves.Anet doesn't need to do that way, it can be added in PvE only, if it has a bad, erase, and a good, pass, for all modes.

@Swagger.1459 said:I’m sure some great updates are coming soon! I believe!

Unfortunately, this is not what has been happening.

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@JohnWater.5760 said:The real balance Patch is coming twice a year, which is not a good thing for a game like GW2. You have a lot of skills to fix, and doing it all at once is a bad idea. Certainly what will happen is that Anet will fix some and mess up others.They definitely should take the system of Path Of Exile, the balance Patch comes every 3 months.PoE has a specific server to test the patch, and so they can see what is good and what is bad. What is good stays and the bad leaves.Anet doesn't need to do that way, it can be added in PvE only, if it has a bad, erase, and a good, pass, for all modes.

@Swagger.1459 said:I’m sure some great updates are coming soon! I believe!

Unfortunately, this is not what has been happening.

We were at large patch every three month. Now we are in... not sure.

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@JohnWater.5760 said:The real balance Patch is coming twice a year, which is not a good thing for a game like GW2. You have a lot of skills to fix, and doing it all at once is a bad idea. Certainly what will happen is that Anet will fix some and mess up others.They definitely should take the system of Path Of Exile, the balance Patch comes every 3 months.PoE has a specific server to test the patch, and so they can see what is good and what is bad. What is good stays and the bad leaves.Anet doesn't need to do that way, it can be added in PvE only, if it has a bad, erase, and a good, pass, for all modes.

@Swagger.1459 said:I’m sure some great updates are coming soon! I believe!

Unfortunately, this is not what has been happening.

We just have to keep believing!!!

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As a player who is on and off due to life being busy (not another game), my biggest lack of draw is old and uninspired traits and weapon skills being updated to be relevant.

I so wish just a little time and care was done to tweak older and underutilized skills and traits were updated. It makes the new content more enjoyable when you have more build variety!

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@Opopanax.1803 said:As a player who is on and off due to life being busy (not another game), my biggest lack of draw is old and uninspired traits and weapon skills being updated to be relevant.

I so wish just a little time and care was done to tweak older and underutilized skills and traits were updated. It makes the new content more enjoyable when you have more build variety!

You are totally right.There's a lot of unused skills because it's old and unbalanced.

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@JohnWater.5760 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:As a player who is on and off due to life being busy (not another game), my biggest lack of draw is old and uninspired traits and weapon skills being updated to be relevant.

I so wish just a little time and care was done to tweak older and underutilized skills and traits were updated. It makes the new content more enjoyable when you have more build variety!

You are totally right.There's a lot of unused skills because it's old and unbalanced.

Honestly the trait system is a bit outdated as well. I love the specializations but there really isn't a sense of Investment. The strength of an Adept compared to a Grandmaster trait is really only determined on their placement on the line but not based on investment since both are equal in what you can take. This isn't inherently a bad thing, however it doesn't offer much in depth for the player.

I'd like to see the Specializations updated to have more than 3 traits in each line. And how this relates to the conversation about the weapons is traits can be used to augment weapon skills pretty heavily. Look at Glacial hammer and Devouring darkness for example. Although I don't agree that it always has to be a strict upgrade to what its doing, many could be minor traits that just change some function of these skills.

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@"Opopanax.1803" said:As a player who is on and off due to life being busy (not another game), my biggest lack of draw is old and uninspired traits and weapon skills being updated to be relevant.

I so wish just a little time and care was done to tweak older and underutilized skills and traits were updated. It makes the new content more enjoyable when you have more build variety!

This

There are so many traits and skills in the game that aren't just "undertuned", but either old, dull, useless and all combinations of those words. There is just to much stuff that could be done about them.

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