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Ranger Lightning Reflexes - Remove The Damage Proc


Trevor Boyer.6524

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https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes

Alright, @Eurantien.4632 has brought this up before but for some reason this topic always largely gets ignored. Lightning Reflexes having damage as part of the cast is an unnecessary mechanic and does nothing but to serve as some kind of drawback or punishment for using the utility.

  1. The damage will reveal you if you are stealthed.
  2. The damage will put you in combat and slow you down, whereas other similar evade skills would allow a character to jolt past something, take no damage deal no damage, and remain out of combat with full mobility.
  3. The damage will trigger abilities like Full Counter, Flashbang, Shocking Aura, when the purpose of the skill is to get away, not trigger every passive effect around you. This is the biggest problem with the damage on LR, now that Arenanet is trending on adding passive CC into the game. What happens with Flashbang or Shock Aura passive CC is that, when LR is used, the damage triggers the passive CC which stops the LR cast completely and puts it on full cool down. So the Ranger doesn't even move backwards or stun break. What happens is the Ranger pushes LR, gets CCd while standing in place, and then LR is on full cool down. These passive CCs completely neutralize the use of LR, as if it weren't even on the Ranger's utility bar.

The damage proc on Lightning Reflexes needs to be removed. If Arenanet doesn't want to fix all the passive CC, the damage on LR needs to be removed. And if Arenanet insists on keeping the damage on LR, at least make the damage worth it. For all of the drawbacks that the damage creates, that damage should be substantial.

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Tbh i never really thought about this since the situation rarely happened to me but it is pretty dumb considering the damage is about 100, right now its not as bad since neither ranger or ele is meta right now and neither see much play compared to other classes but for when ranger is no longer gatekeeped (mainly core) this will be a more prominent issue and should be addressed before it becomes a larger issue, fullcounter isnt too much of an issue considering lightning reflexes is also a dodge but procing the CC of shocking aura with a stunbreak defeats the entire purpose of the skill and the damage has 0 impact anyways and so it is a pretty dumb mechanic.

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Engi runs into a similar problem with vent exhaust. Though, the solutions for the two skills are different (remove LR's dmg and move the vent dmg to the end of the dodge like every other dodge proc in game). Would also be nice to see anet do something about all the passive cc in the game (really just cc in general, it's out of control right now)

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@"Leonidrex.5649" said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

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@GewRoo.4172 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

You mean 40 energy on Riposting Shadows.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

You're missing the point bud.

We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed.

To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

You're missing the point bud.

We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed.

To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached.

The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue.

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

You're missing the point bud.

We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed.

To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached.

The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue.

It gets auto CC'd by Shock Aura, Engi Shield Stun, and FLASHBANG. Considering that everyone and their brother runs an Engineer or Tempest nowadays, and that aura share puts Shock Aura on everyone in a team fight, yeah using Lightning Reflexes is a problem right now and it has been for quite some time. When you stack Flashbang on top of Engi Shield and stack it on top of Shock Aura share, yeah man it's a problem. But that's just discussing the issue with passive auto CCs. That's not even addressing the other things I had mentioned in my OP post.

And the part about "Full Counter won't even hit you" is a naive thing to say. You probably don't have enough experience playing Ranger to understand that LR is not always used in a traditional manner where you go backwards 180 degrees from an opponent. Sometimes you have to use it while your back is against a wall or some other object, which means you get a short evade frame but don't go anywhere. Or if you LR and land near the Spellbreaker at the end of the LR when your evade frame is already used up. You also aren't considering team fights, where the Ranger LRing away from a Spellbreaker will trigger the FC to hit others when those players would have otherwise stopped aiming attacks at the Spellbreaker.

This mechanical problem needs to be fixed. If this same problem were happening on a skill on the class that you play, you know you would agree with me.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

You're missing the point bud.

We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed.

To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached.

The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue.

It gets auto CC'd by Shock Aura, Engi Shield Stun, and FLASHBANG. Considering that everyone and their brother runs an Engineer or Tempest nowadays, and that aura share puts Shock Aura on everyone in a team fight, yeah using Lightning Reflexes is a problem right now and it has been for quite some time. When you stack Flashbang on top of Engi Shield and stack it on top of Shock Aura share, yeah man it's a problem. But that's just discussing the issue with passive auto CCs. That's not even addressing the other things I had mentioned in my OP post.

And the part about "Full Counter won't even hit you" is a naive thing to say. You probably don't have enough experience playing Ranger to understand that LR is not always used in a traditional manner where you go backwards 180 degrees from an opponent. Sometimes you have to use it while your back is against a wall or some other object, which means you get a short evade frame but don't go anywhere. Or if you LR and land near the Spellbreaker at the end of the LR when your evade frame is already used up. You also aren't considering team fights, where the Ranger LRing away from a Spellbreaker will trigger the FC to hit others when those players would have otherwise stopped aiming attacks at the Spellbreaker.

This mechanical problem needs to be fixed. If this same problem were happening on a skill on the class that you play, you know you would agree with me.

Flashbang doesn't CC you on hitting the engi, it CCs you on the engi hitting you and it's at 90% health or higher. You going into a wall when using it is the same as complaining that it sent you off the a ledge or cliff; every case is your fault for poor positioning, not a flaw in the skill.

Congrats, you hit the SpB with a damage skill that procs it and hits your team. That's literally applicable with any other skill that does similar things. Don't use it when a SpB is using FC right in front of you.

Are you really assuming that because I don't agree with you on this issue that I don't play the class? It sounds like you're just incapable of working around the skills functions and need to either stop using it or get over it.

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What passive cc btw? Are you talking about the casted skill shocking aura? It only lasts a few seconds. But I barely play ranger, if you want to make the skill have no counter play, give it a 60 second cooldown. Enjoy it, but I think most ranger mains would prefer the skill factor and lower cooldown.

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@Loboling.5293 said:What passive cc btw? Are you talking about the casted skill shocking aura? It only lasts a few seconds. But I barely play ranger, if you want to make the skill have no counter play, give it a 60 second cooldown. Enjoy it, but I think most ranger mains would prefer the skill factor and lower cooldown.

I think rangers enjoy being impossible to CC too much to agree to it ;p

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

I'm in agreement with this tbh.

Understand what you're saying Trevor, but all I can see is the 24-30 second stunbreak paired with vigor and all thoughts of buffing it go out the window.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

I'm in agreement with this tbh.

Understand what you're saying Trevor, but all I can see is the 24-30 second stunbreak paired with vigor and all thoughts of buffing it go out the window.

Why not both?

Get rid of the damage (or add 0.1s of stab to it if that's too hard to do :lol:) and then add 10-15s CD. Or give it the ele treatment, make it 60s, whatever.

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

what other skills?this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

exactly my point?30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference30s cd vs 40s cd, massive differencemore over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30sthe CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

You're missing the point bud.

We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed.

To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached.

The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue.

It gets auto CC'd by Shock Aura, Engi Shield Stun, and FLASHBANG. Considering that everyone and their brother runs an Engineer or Tempest nowadays, and that aura share puts Shock Aura on everyone in a team fight, yeah using Lightning Reflexes is a problem right now and it has been for quite some time. When you stack Flashbang on top of Engi Shield and stack it on top of Shock Aura share, yeah man it's a problem. But that's just discussing the issue with passive auto CCs. That's not even addressing the other things I had mentioned in my OP post.

And the part about "Full Counter won't even hit you" is a naive thing to say. You probably don't have enough experience playing Ranger to understand that LR is not always used in a traditional manner where you go backwards 180 degrees from an opponent. Sometimes you have to use it while your back is against a wall or some other object, which means you get a short evade frame but don't go anywhere. Or if you LR and land near the Spellbreaker at the end of the LR when your evade frame is already used up. You also aren't considering team fights, where the Ranger LRing away from a Spellbreaker will trigger the FC to hit others when those players would have otherwise stopped aiming attacks at the Spellbreaker.

This mechanical problem needs to be fixed. If this same problem were happening on a skill on the class that you play, you know you would agree with me.

You going into a wall when using it is the same as complaining that it sent you off the a ledge or cliff; every case is your fault for poor positioning, not a flaw in the skill.

You're still not understanding/identifying with situations rangers get into. Example: at mid in forest, sometimes effects like spectral ring or ring of warding ect, will surround you but a certain side of it will clip into a wall. Normally using LR would make you hit the outside of Spectral Ring or Ward or Dragon's Maw, but if the side clips into the elevation, you can put your back to the wall and use LR without penalty.

Argue all you want but don't parade as if you knew about maining Ranger.

Congrats, you hit the SpB with a damage skill that procs it and hits your team. That's literally applicable with any other skill that does similar things. Don't use it when a SpB is using FC right in front of you.

That's not really the point bud. The point is that LR is an escape skill but for whatever reason has random tiny damage attached to it so that it ruins the cast. If this is intended then w/e, but if it wasn't intended to ruin LR usage, I'm simply pointing out to Arenanet that it is a problem. That damage could at least be substantial for all the mechanical problems it causes.

Are you really assuming that because I don't agree with you on this issue that I don't play the class? It sounds like you're just incapable of working around the skills functions and need to either stop using it or get over it.

No, I assuming you don't play Ranger because you aren't identifying anything that a Ranger main would identify. All of the things you're saying is coming from a place of imagining & assumption, rather than experience.

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