Jump to content
  • Sign Up

The Icebrood Saga: Champions Chapter 1 Trailer


Daniel Handler.4816

Recommended Posts

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:That would require them ignoring the entire purpose of S3, PoF, and S4 and why we fought Balthazar. I really, really hope they don't pull that.But Aurene is the one true dragon who can harness all the energies without them conflicting inside her!(I would hate that plot point but Anet has done nothing to suggest any sort of other Dragon replacement.)

I dunno, bringing Kuunavang and some other, unknown dragon at a point when replacements are needed feels like a decent hint.

@"Svennis.3852" said:Though I wouldn't be surprised if we forego the need for elder dragons to regulate the cycle of magic entirely by the end of the expansion.The promo line "the cycle is reborn" feels like we aren't foregoing the need of Elder Dragons.

@"Teratus.2859" said:It's true episode's 2 and 3 didn't give much but he was still the big looming threat during that period of time and he was still looking for Aurine off screen.Joko did became our priority for this time but Kralkatorrik was the main big bad looming in the distance the whole time we were dealing with Joko.

Not at all. Kralkatorrik was sitting on a mountainside. He didn't begin chasing Aurene (or rather, having his champions chase Aurene) until Episode 4 began. He was literally doing nothing by all accounts of dialogue after causing that brandstorm at Amnoon and sending off some brandstone meteors, until the Death-Branded Shatterer attacked the meeting during Episode 4.

And Kralkatorrik was pretty much completely ignored, even in dialogue, during all of Episode 2 and 3.

I'd say the expansion was more than 1/4 though, we pretty much follow Balthazar into PoF content specifically to stop him from killing Kralkatorrik.Kralk may not have been personally a big presence until the end but he was part of the main goal the whole time even if Balthazar was the priority.Kralkatorrik wasn't an antagonist here though, he was more like Primordus role during EotN - a looming mcguffin for the villain.

Yes we did get some Primordus stuff in season 3 but it was pretty minor outside of a surprise face to face encounter with him.I dunno, I'd say ending Episode 1 with the ominous line of "Primordus is active." and having Episode 2 (and its preluding Transfer Chaser achievement) entirely dedicated to the evolution and movement of Primordus, and the majority of Episode 5 dedicated to Primordus as a direct looming threat, with a meta fully dedicated to his champions, is quite a bit more than "pretty minor outside of a surprise face to face encounter".

Their minions are mindless drones, least for the most part but I expect Primordus himself is more like Kralkatorrik.I expect there is an intelligence in there somewhere, specially with the new magics he's consumed from the other Dragons and he probably can speak like even Kralkatorrik could despite that for many many years Kralkatorrik was perceived to be nothing more than a mindless rampaging monster.

Even if Primordus was some intelligent individual, without direct confrontation with Primordus, there's no plot besides "fight the mindless drones". The only narrative development will be of others talking about Primordus - for Kralk, this was mainly Glint; for Primordus, it's mainly Jormag - and a direct final confrontation.

Unless Primordus suddenly pulls a Mordremoth out of nowhere, which I feel will be far worse than killing Primordus by the end of IBS.

For him to become that I believe we need to witness in game the catastrophic destruction that he is capable of, and I don't believe that can be done as well in just 4 episodes as it could be in a whole season or expansion, specially with others stealing his time in the spotlight.

6+ episodes that is just a continuous repeat "defend point A from destroyer waves" and "where in the world is Primordus' weakness" is not an enjoyable plot to anticipate, nor is forcing an asspull of Primordus for some reason either a) gaining distanced telepathy or b) making talkative minions.

which means there will be no real Primordus buildup at all leading to his death if he does get killed off in 4 episodes.Primordus will get as much buildup as is possible without changing the fundamentals of his minions or his powers.

With zero communication with him and his minions, there's no way to create an interesting, long plot with Primordus. There's no minions to taunt us while the dragon is animalistic like Zhaitan, and no way for him to taunt us from afar like Mordremoth.

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:Didn't Balthazar leak magic into the environment when he died? I'm not entirely certain what you mean by confirmation. I would imagine several of the dragons received a power boost when the ex-god was deposed, just as they did when Mordemoth's power rushed out.

This is not to say that could not have also happened when Kralkatorrik died. But it was far less chaotic than Balthazar/Mordremoth. I don't think we even see his body afterwards.Not very much leaked into the environment, and what did happened far away, and as Taimi says in Season 3 Episode 3:Taimi: Maybe proximity matters, and since Jormag's so far away, it didn't receive as much Mordy juice.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_Cookin%27And like I said, it got confirmed that Jormag got a power boost from Kralkatorrik's death:Then Zhaitan was slain. Then Mordremoth. Then Kralkatorrik. With each Elder Dragon slain by the Pact Commander and their allies, the whispers seemed to grow louder.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_History_of_Still_Waters_Speaking:_Part_TwoAlso: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Chat_-_Episode_97 but good luck finding the text, oh boy.

The path to ascension, which involves divine fire, was an important part of the plot.That had absolutely nothing to do with Path of Fire's plot. Divine fire was never mentioned, and Ascension was only relevant to a single meta that had nothing to do with the Forged or Balthazar.

And, not for nothing, Caithe corners Faolain at the heart of thorns.Technically, no.

I also contest that names are seldom, if ever, double entendres. See "A Bug in the System", "Daybreak", etc.Two examples would exactly be "seldom" when we have nearly a hundred releases now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 114
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@SunRoamer.5103 said:I think in a scenario where one of the Elder Dragons dies, it's more likely for Primordus to survive and for him to (against all odds) finish off Jormag... mainly because I don't see us dealing with Jormag all over again after we already went through IBS. This really depends on how the upcoming episode 5 chapters play out, of course - whether the introduction of Primordus is used mainly as a means to explore the story of Jormag more (and hence won't touch upon Primordus related story threads too much; mainly thinking of the Depths and asuran history here), or whether he will instead become the main focus of the story from now on.

I'd say it more depends on whether they intend to put Jormag through the redemption plot or not. If not, then Jormag will undoubtably die this season. But I do think there is a realm for Jormag to be redeemed and/or permanently put to sleep, thus no longer being a threat for the future.

The disintegration of reality/Tyria has been hinted at since Season 2 (introduction of the All), Heart of Thorns (e.g. Mordremoth's comments on oblivion) and confirmed as a threat in Season 3. Path of Fire further explored this possible future in a variety of trailers and in-game visions - so I could definitely see ANet making this threat to the fundamental structure of Tyria one of the major plot points in End of Dragons.

I feel like we would have seen hints of such in the concept art if the expansion was going to have a world-ending-is-imminent scenario.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The disintegration of reality/Tyria has been hinted at since Season 2 (introduction of the All), Heart of Thorns (e.g. Mordremoth's comments on oblivion) and confirmed as a threat in Season 3. Path of Fire further explored this possible future in a variety of trailers and in-game visions - so I could definitely see ANet making this threat to the fundamental structure of Tyria one of the major plot points in End of Dragons.

I feel like we would have seen hints of such in the concept art if the expansion was going to have a world-ending-is-imminent scenario.

Colourful floating bubbles in Echovald Forest seem very doomsday to me, personally! :#

On a more serious note, yeah, you might be right. But as it stands, we haven't really seen much of the current Cantha so far, as the teaser might have shown historical scenes and other pieces of concept art have been rare (and the aforementioned floating bubbles in one of these paintings did look very out-of-place, so who knows, maybe they are related to this - similar to how Kralkatorrik's rift shenanigans integrated pieces of other places and times into Jahai, maybe a part of the ocean somehow manifested within the Echovald Forest or something... or it's just visions-related VFX).If an oblivion-plot does happen, it might also just be more visible in some of the later maps because they happen later on in the timeline, when things start degrading more and more, and aren't necessarily present within all expansion maps.

But like I said, I looooove me some floaty kitten, so this is just me hoping for more of floating stuff in case they do end the current saga with an ED dying. Other storylines seem just as plausible, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

The path to ascension, which involves divine fire, was an important part of the plot.That had absolutely nothing to do with Path of Fire's plot. Divine fire was never mentioned, and Ascension was only relevant to a single meta that had nothing to do with the Forged or Balthazar.

Ascension involves traveling into Elona to seek communion with the gods. I'm not saying this was another Arcana Obscura, but I do consider it a nod to the pilgrimage and what it represented.

Two examples would exactly be "seldom" when we have nearly a hundred releases now."Wrench in the Works," "Snapping Steel", "Be My Guest," "Forging Steel" etc. There is room to be witty.

I will not be surprised if End of Dragons refers to both actual death and the end of the cycle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I dunno, bringing Kuunavang and some other, unknown dragon at a point when replacements are needed feels like a decent hint.Did we get actual confirmation that the other voice in the EoD trailer was a dragon?

I don't believe so, but the two voices are referred to as "ancient voices" on the official EoDs expansion page. A dragon seems most likely, but it could be something else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Svennis.3852" said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I dunno, bringing Kuunavang and some other, unknown dragon at a point when replacements are needed feels like a decent hint.Did we get actual confirmation that the other voice in the EoD trailer was a dragon?

I don't believe so, but the two voices are referred to as "ancient voices" on the official EoDs expansion page. A dragon seems most likely, but it could be something else.

Well one voice is Kuunavang, as the other voice, names her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Tyson.5160 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I dunno, bringing Kuunavang and some other, unknown dragon at a point when replacements are needed feels like a decent hint.Did we get actual confirmation that the other voice in the EoD trailer was a dragon?

I don't believe so, but the two voices are referred to as "ancient voices" on the official EoDs expansion page. A dragon seems most likely, but it could be something else.

Well one voice is Kuunavang, as the other voice, names her.

I bring this up in reference to the non-Kuunavang voice. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A thought occurred to me: What if Jormag and Primordus are single-minded, perhaps a hive mind? That might mean that Bangar is referring to them both when he warns Aurene that "they're playing" her, "like a fiddle". The two dragons are secretly working together in a "good cop, bad cop" routine.

Another thing comes to mind. There are various kinds of twins. If my theory that Jormag is Kralkatorrik's mother is correct, that would mean Jormag and Primordus are fraternal twins. Alternatively, they could be identical twins, but that doesn't make much sense, as Jormag's and Primordus's models are too dissimilar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Stephen.6312" said:A thought occurred to me: What if Jormag and Primordus are single-minded, perhaps a hive mind? That might mean that Bangar is referring to them both when he warns Aurene that "they're playing" her, "like a fiddle". The two dragons are secretly working together in a "good cop, bad cop" routine.

Could be interesting - but "they" refers to Jormag, who doesn't really have a gender and thus is referred to with they/them pronouns.

https://deconforming.com/they-them-pronouns/https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbinary-theyhttps://www.grammarly.com/blog/use-the-singular-they/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@mezuzel.4987 said:

@"Stephen.6312" said:A thought occurred to me: What if Jormag and Primordus are single-minded, perhaps a hive mind? That might mean that Bangar is referring to them both when he warns Aurene that "they're playing" her, "like a fiddle". The two dragons are secretly working together in a "good cop, bad cop" routine.

Could be interesting - but "they" refers to Jormag, who doesn't really have a gender and thus is referred to with they/them pronouns.

Maybe. It depends on what Jormag means when it says that Primordus is it's "twin". If it is metaphorical, then Jormag may be an "it"; if it is familial, however, Jormag has a gender (note: I am using an archaic form of this word) denoted by the function of it's genitalia.

Jormag refers to Prim as a "he", calls Aurene a "little sister". Kralkatorrik called to his "mother". I suggest that the current story arc is as much about exploring the Elder Dragon family as it is anything else.

Moreover, Tom Abernathy's comment was about the sexuality with which Jormag identifies, not the biological function of it's genitalia. Tom's comment should be taken with a grain of salt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Stephen.6312 said:

@Stephen.6312 said:A thought occurred to me: What if Jormag and Primordus are single-minded, perhaps a hive mind? That might mean that Bangar is referring to them both when he warns Aurene that "they're playing" her, "like a fiddle". The two dragons are secretly working together in a "good cop, bad cop" routine.

Could be interesting - but "they" refers to Jormag, who doesn't really have a gender and thus is referred to with they/them pronouns.

Maybe. It depends on what Jormag means when it says that Primordus is it's "twin". If it is metaphorical, then Jormag may be an "it"; if it is familial, however, Jormag has a gender (note: I am using an archaic form of this word) denoted by the function of it's genitalia.

Jormag refers to Prim as a "he", calls Aurene a "little sister". Kralkatorrik called to his "mother". I suggest that the current story arc is as much about exploring the Elder Dragon family as it is anything else.

Moreover, Tom Abernathy's comment was about the sexuality with which Jormag
identifies
, not the biological function of it's genitalia. Tom's comment should be taken with a grain of salt.

There is is much wrong with this comment. Least of which is that these are magical creatures that most likely reproduce asexually.

"Mother" meant about as much to Kralkatorrik as it does to the Sylvari greeting the Pale Tree. The nature of corruption makes talking about "biological function" inherently flawed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

There is is much wrong with this comment.

That's a vit harsh, Daniel.

Least of which is that these are magical creatures that most likely reproduce asexually.

We know that Aurene hatched from an egg. We know that some of the Elder Dragons are male (Kralkatorrik, Primordus, presumably Jormag) and - if you subscribe to the idea that Aurene is an Elder Dragon - and others are female. We now have enough info to infer one of two possibilities: dragons reproduce asexually, such that their reproductive abilities aren't tied to either sex; or, they are sexually dimorphic. We don't have enough information to rule sexual dimorphism out.

"Mother" meant about as much to Kralkatorrik as it does to the Sylvari greeting the Pale Tree.

If you were to encounter Kralk's "mother", who do you think it would be? The Pale Tree? You'd tell me that it was more likely to be another dragon.

The nature of corruption makes talking about "biological function" inherently flawed.

You'll need to explain yourself a bit more there. I see no reason why biological paradigms are incompatible with the lore of Guild Wars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:Ascension involves traveling into Elona to seek communion with the gods. I'm not saying this was another Arcana Obscura, but I do consider it a nod to the pilgrimage and what it represented.That's a bit of a stretch. Path of Fire was very, very much Nightfall 2.0 in the same way that The Force Awakens was A New Hope 2.0. Plus, Ascension didn't really involve "communion with the gods", just the gods' attention (and this is apparently put to debate in GW2 as possibly being a human misconception, like the origin of magic).

Two examples would exactly be "seldom" when we have nearly a hundred releases now."Wrench in the Works," "Snapping Steel", "Be My Guest," "Forging Steel" etc. There is room to be witty.Those are not release names. Those are story step names.
HUGE
difference

I will not be surprised if End of Dragons refers to both actual death and the end of the cycle.Technically that's still one thing, since the death of Elder Dragons means changing the cycle - though "end of the cycle" would contradict the promotional phrase attached to End of Dragons: "The cycle is reborn".

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I dunno, bringing Kuunavang and some other, unknown dragon at a point when replacements are needed feels like a decent hint.Did we get actual confirmation that the other voice in the EoD trailer was a dragon?Not outright, but the dialogue at least tells us the voice isn't a mortal, and an associate of Kuunavang.

Very high chance it's a dragon.

@"Stephen.6312" said:A thought occurred to me: What if Jormag and Primordus are single-minded, perhaps a hive mind? That might mean that Bangar is referring to them both when he warns Aurene that "they're playing" her, "like a fiddle". The two dragons are secretly working together in a "good cop, bad cop" routine.I think Bangar hates Jormag enough at this point to spoil any plans if he had knowledge of such.

@"Stephen.6312" said:Maybe. It depends on what Jormag means when it says that Primordus is it's "twin". If it is metaphorical, then Jormag may be an "it"; if it is familial, however, Jormag has a gender (note: I am using an archaic form of this word) denoted by the function of it's genitalia.

Jormag refers to Prim as a "he", calls Aurene a "little sister". Kralkatorrik called to his "mother". I suggest that the current story arc is as much about exploring the Elder Dragon family as it is anything else.

Moreover, Tom Abernathy's comment was about the sexuality with which Jormag identifies, not the biological function of it's genitalia. Tom's comment should be taken with a grain of salt.

ANet (specifically, Ree Soesbee - one of the two narrative directors of ANet, making her of the highest lore figure at ANet, at the time) had long ago established that Elder Dragons without gender in 2010. In other words, it's been long established that, biologically speaking, ALL Elder Dragons - even Kralkatorrik, Glint, Vlast, and Aurene - are technically an "it". This is why the wiki had gone through lengths to ensure the Elder Dragons are referred to with "it" pronouns, unless otherwise used in-game.

This is likely why we hear nothing about Glint's mother, or Vlast/Aurene's father. Elder Dragons - and high dragons - by all indication so far reproduced in a non-standard asexual method - without need of partners.

You may also note: Risen do not refer to Zhaitan with a gender at any time. Instead of using a pronoun, they use "the dragon" or "my master". And neither do Mordrem Guard for Mordremoth - where pronouns would be expected, they use "the jungle dragon". (If there is a pronoun use for them by risen/mordrem, it's likely a small slip - I even checked just now to verify and no major moment has dragon minions using a pronoun for them).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:ANet (specifically, Ree Soesbee - one of the two narrative directors of ANet, making her of the highest lore figure at ANet, at the time) had long ago established that Elder Dragons without gender in 2010. In other words, it's been long established that, biologically speaking, ALL Elder Dragons - even Kralkatorrik, Glint, Vlast, and Aurene - are technically an "it".

As I have stated before, Konig, I believe that you have an over-reliance on out-of-game sources to help you comprehend in-game "facts".

This is why the wiki had gone through lengths to ensure the Elder Dragons are referred to with "it" pronouns, unless otherwise used in-game.

The wiki isn't the fulcrum we would have it be. Anyone reading this response should remember that contributors to the wiki are doing their best to provide "facts" in a manner of which all wiki editors approve. This is a good thing. However, it doesn't mean that the wiki's use of the term "it", when referring to Elder Dragons, is still accurate. As of 2012 it might have been accurate within the context of the early story. At that time, an everyday Tyrian might'nt have thought of an Elder Dragon as anything more than an it. However, Aurene has penetrated aspects of the Elder Dragons' inner circle, revealing that, indeed, the Elder Dragons might have reproductive organs. Hence, the wiki may be outdated and due for revision at the conclusion of the IBS.

This is likely why we hear nothing about Glint's mother, or Vlast/Aurene's father. Elder Dragons - and high dragons - by all indication so far reproduced in a non-standard asexual method - without need of partners.

We don't know that. We do not have enough information to make such definitive statements. Until we learn more about the reproductive methods of Elder Dragons we simply cannot rule out the possibility that they are sexually dimorphic.

You may also note: Risen do not refer to Zhaitan with a gender at any time. Instead of using a pronoun, they use "the dragon" or "my master". And neither do Mordrem Guard for Mordremoth - where pronouns would be expected, they use "the jungle dragon". (If there is a pronoun use for them by risen/mordrem, it's likely a small slip - I even checked just now to verify and no major moment has dragon minions using a pronoun for them).

Thank you for pointing this out. Did it ever occur to you, Konig, that the nature of Elder Dragon reproduction, including the biological gender of each Elder, might've been something that the dragons didn't want mortals to know about? Perhaps for fear that mortals would use the knowledge of these things against the Elders?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said: Though I only see the later happening if they forego the whole need to have multiple replacements for the Elder Dragons (which is what will upset me).

I see you bring this up a lot, Konig, but I still feel like they can make Aurene the sole Elder Dragon. If she circulates and shares magic rather than hoard it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Plagiarised.2865 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said: Though I only see the later happening if they forego the whole need to have multiple replacements for the Elder Dragons (which is what will upset me).

I see you bring this up a lot, Konig, but I still feel like they can make Aurene the sole Elder Dragon. If she circulates and shares magic rather than hoard it?

That'd be some pretty bad and lazy writing if Anet went that route.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Plagiarised.2865 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: Though I only see the later happening if they forego the whole need to have multiple replacements for the Elder Dragons (which is what will upset me).

I see you bring this up a lot, Konig, but I still feel like they can make Aurene the sole Elder Dragon. If she circulates and shares magic rather than hoard it?

They could I suppose but it would go against a lot of what's already been established.

1.) Kralk went more and more mad the more magic he absorbed that wasn't natural to him. Aurene may be "special" but is she special enough to hold all of that? Say we kill off every elder dragon but her, that's Balthazar plus 5 other elder dragons magic she would be holding onto. Even if she somehow was able to "purify" it and give some off to the lesser races that's A LOT of magic she's giving away to the lesser races that they may not even be able to handle themselves without going insane.2.) The domains that she's absorbed and her tie to the all. Can an elder dragon survive being connected to all 6 domains? Because it's not like she can pass off her connection to those domains to the lesser races.

I think long term if she remained at her current level, she would probably be fine for eons. But I'd imagine the death of just one more elder dragon may be the tipping point to lead her down the same path as the others, thus why we go to Cantha. One thing that bothers me is that they haven't really dealt with the current potential candidates for replacements, like the Pale Tree. While I think this is mostly because of Arenanet keeping the plot moving in one-direction, if we wanted to toss out speculation on in-game character motives... is Aurene not pursuing that because she feels she's fine handling things the way they are? Or have the effects of the magic already taken toll and she's secretly not desiring to find replacements because the torment has begun and she's wanting to hoard as much as she can?

If you look at the latest Bangar dialogue Jormag calls Aurene out on not interfering with Jormag and Primordus and leaving it to the mortals because there was "nothing to gain." Personally, I found this strange because before she ascended she would have likely jumped at the chance to defend the commander and others from a potential elder dragon threat. At least in my opinion. You could argue that there was nothing to gain because she knew killing them would create an imbalance, but her next line was pretty much "So you kill him then." Which shows that the death of them is obviously not a concern to Aurene. She just didn't want to get involved herself, and I have to wonder what the motive for that is.

I do like the theory that someone tossed out implying that Jormag and Primordus are working together though. To me that makes sense because they're each other's weakness. They fought in the past and it seemed like it resulted in a pretty bloody battle. Who knows what shape Primordus was in after that. Was Jormag the only one injured or was Primordus injured as well? Leading them both to realize that they're better off in an alliance than as enemies?

If all the others die and they are able to take over Tyria, they could potentially share Tyria in cycles as originally intended knowing that they have no equals. This goes against the torment and insanity bit but up until Primordus and Jormag we haven't really seen two elder dragons warring with one another. Potentially hundreds of thousands of years and they've seemingly been content finding their own corner of the world. What's so different now?

And with presumably all of the remaining dragons having access to mist travel now, why are seemingly none of the remaining as interested in consuming the mists as Kralk was?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More on the topic of Aurene, the only way I can see her being the sole carrier of that magic is if she's able to rapidly produce scions and can gift those domains and that magic to those scions. Perhaps that's her plan in the long run. And again, that could be either be torment causing her to want to have complete control over those domains and that magic or just be instinctive and presumably protective, believing that HER children are the only ones capable of doing what needs to be done.

And to be honest, she does look like she's roosting in a nest in Eye of the North. Probably reading more into it than I should, but it could be another reason why she's less interested in getting directly involved in the war between Jormag and Primordus. I know it's early and she just ascended, and we don't really know anything about dragon reproduction, but it wouldn't surprise me to have a reveal that she's popped out a few eggs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would prefer Aurene being the One over resolving everything with dragon sex.

The trope of the 'Chosen Special One' is common enough to be cliche and the studio does love easy to tell cliches. If they do go this route, it can't be hidden for much longer. I think the trope could work as fake out. Aurene learns she can replace all of the Elder Dragons but must sacrifice ever being awake or possibly her mind. Being Aurene, she thinks her mind is worth the price and works to make it happen. The Commander goes off to find an alternative and it is this alternative that works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think many people agree that Aurene solving all our problems would be a huge cop-out from the threads/lore building the writers themselves established. Even if the narrative team has drastically changed, I don’t see why they wouldn’t honor the story that came before them. I’ll be disappointed if they retcon the need for multiple beings to hold up the All, unless we actually manage to modify it somehow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bast.7253 said:More on the topic of Aurene, the only way I can see her being the sole carrier of that magic is if she's able to rapidly produce scions and can gift those domains and that magic to those scions. Perhaps that's her plan in the long run. And again, that could be either be torment causing her to want to have complete control over those domains and that magic or just be instinctive and presumably protective, believing that HER children are the only ones capable of doing what needs to be done.

And to be honest, she does look like she's roosting in a nest in Eye of the North. Probably reading more into it than I should, but it could be another reason why she's less interested in getting directly involved in the war between Jormag and Primordus. I know it's early and she just ascended, and we don't really know anything about dragon reproduction, but it wouldn't surprise me to have a reveal that she's popped out a few eggs.

I had this idea too and I’m wondering if this what happened eons ago with perhaps one Proto Elder Dragon, who gave birth to the other Elder Dragons we know now with separate domains.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Stephen.6312 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:ANet
(specifically, Ree Soesbee - one of the two narrative directors of ANet, making her of the highest lore figure at ANet, at the time)
had long ago established that Elder Dragons without gender in 2010. In other words, it's been long established that, biologically speaking,
ALL
Elder Dragons - even Kralkatorrik, Glint, Vlast, and Aurene - are technically an "it".

As I have stated before, Konig, I believe that you have an over-reliance on out-of-game sources to help you comprehend in-game "facts".See:
.

And for the matter, you have an over-reliance on ignoring established facts and denying the very writers' statements to avoid debunking your reaching fanon.

This is a good thing. However, it doesn't mean that the wiki's use of the term "it", when referring to Elder Dragons, is still accurate.If it isn't, it's because the Elder Dragon associates with a pronoun, not because they have identifiable genitals.

However, Aurene has penetrated aspects of the Elder Dragons' inner circle, revealing that, indeed, the Elder Dragons might have reproductive organs.There is no such revelation from Aurene becoming an Elder Dragon, and we've known since 2005 that a dragon can have children, so the fact that there are family ties does not change this.

This is likely why we hear nothing about Glint's mother, or Vlast/Aurene's father. Elder Dragons - and high dragons -
by all indication so far reproduced
in a non-standard asexual method -
without need of partners
.We don't know that. We do not have enough information to make such definitive statements. Until we learn more about the reproductive methods of Elder Dragons we simply cannot rule out the possibility that they are sexually dimorphic.The very lack of evidence, despite going over the topic of dragon family over the past two years, is pretty strong evidence of lacking in this case.

Thank you for pointing this out. Did it ever occur to you, Konig, that the nature of Elder Dragon reproduction, including the biological gender of each Elder, might've been something that the dragons didn't want mortals to know about? Perhaps for fear that mortals would use the knowledge of these things against the Elders?Why would the Elder Dragons, who view mortals as nothing greater than ants worth ignoring, or food, care what the mortals do or do not know about how they have children?You give the Elder Dragons too much credit, because it's been firmly established that the Elder Dragons are
uncaring
for mortals, mortal views, and mortal desires. Besides which, if "Elder Dragons can have children" is a fatal flaw to all Elder Dragons, then Glint, the Forgotten, and/or the Exalted would have spread that knowledge by now.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: Though I only see the later happening if they forego the whole need to have multiple replacements for the Elder Dragons (which is what will upset me).

I see you bring this up a lot, Konig, but I still feel like they can make Aurene the sole Elder Dragon. If she circulates and shares magic rather than hoard it?Not without denouncing the entire purpose of Season 3, Path of Fire, and Season 4. Where it is
repeatedly
stated that the issue isn't the balance of magic. It's the balance of The All. That four Elder Dragons are needed
despite
the remaining three Elder Dragons consuming even more magic - and that the act of an Elder Dragon consuming too much magic, in fact, unbalances The All.

If the matter was simply "too much magic", then Balthazar killing Primordus of Kralkatorrik and absorbing either of their magic would be no issue.If the matter was simply "too much magic", then killing Kralkatorrik in the Mists, even with Aurene there to absorb his magic, to reduce some magic from the system, would be no issue.

But both were world ending scenarios if they occurred.

Taimi: (big breath) Look, we've discovered that eliminating dragons isn't the best thing for the environment...Taimi: But what else were we going to do? Keep them alive and just let 'em eat us?Taimi: So we destroy them and deal with the fallout, but... But what if we can't deal with the consequences anymore?

Sadizi: But when two Elder Dragons were unexpectedly eliminated from the cycle at one time, we believe it created a void.Sadizi: A void that caused the system to break down and the collapse to begin.

Pact Commander: Kralkatorrik's even stronger and more dangerous than ever.Taimi: Oh boy. That could seriously accelerate the Elder Dragon imbalance. I should run some worst-case hypotheticals right away.

Aurene: Now we must ride...scion and champion. Flush Kralkatorrik...from the Mists.Taimi: Right! If he dies in the Mists, that's it. His magic is gone. And so is Tyria.

Ergo, while "too much magic" is an issue, it isn't the issue. The issue is the "Elder Dragon [im]balance."

@Psientist.6437 said:I would prefer Aurene being the One over resolving everything with dragon sex.Wouldn't really need that since all evidence suggests they reproduce asexually.

Plus, we have two fairly likely replacements (Pale Tree and Kuunavang). And if Jormag goes redemption arc, that would give us the mandatory minimum four living Elder Dragons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...