Add a Power Damage Modifier to Renegade

[Cougre.6543]

Currently Renegade is lacking in power-oriented benefits. Condi gets 25% bleed duration and damage, power gets the choice between 100 ferocity or 25% more damage on one skill. The top row adept and master traits are both severely lacking and not often utilized, surely it wouldn't hurt to add a 10% damage modifier to one of them?

[Shao.7236]

It's because Renegade is a multi-hit beast and it's defined even more by Brutal Momentum forcing users to play like a glass canon for consistent damage, Vindication itself adds up with it too.

Not to forget about the extra siphon hits and vulnerability, it all adds up really fast.

[ChillyKoti.1928]

Not to forget that Renegade is also supposed to be a Condition Damage spec, not a power one.It's just that people seems to play it as a power spec.

[Antycypator.9874]

Whole Devastation is for power damage, especialy Unsuspecting Strikes and Swift Termination. You can choose between Assassin's Presence (150 ferocity in combat) or Notoriety (more power from might).

[lare.5129]

@Cougre.6543 said:Currently Renegade is lacking in power-oriented benefits.it is OK. Power rene biuld is good and valid fro most content.

[Clownmug.8357]

@Edge.8724 said:Not to forget that Renegade is also supposed to be a Condition Damage spec, not a power one.It's just that people seems to play it as a power spec.

Nah, it's got to be hybrid spec. Otherwise there's no reason to have Kalla's Fervor boost ferocity, Brutal Momentum boost crit chance, and two grandmaster traits that provide might. Also the shortbow skills with conveniently high power coefficients...

[Virdo.1540]

hm.... herald has Forceful persistence.... and +1% dmg per boon...

and it still benchmarks for about 8k dps less than power renegade. Id say renegade doesnt need a buff, since its able to hit big hitboxes at hard as dragonhunters ,while having overpowered teambuffs

[Cougre.6543]

@Shao.7236 said:Not to forget about the extra siphon hits and vulnerability, it all adds up really fast.The siphons and vulnerability quickly diminish in value when multiple players and enemies are involved.@Virdo.1540 said:hm.... herald has Forceful persistence.... and +1% dmg per boon...

and it still benchmarks for about 8k dps less than power renegade.I don't think the herald build that was benchmarked uses Forceful Persistence, because you'd give up the 10 man facet trait for that. That trait also justifies the difference in damage, because renegade can't provide permanent 10 man protection, or boon duration that ignores the stat cap.Id say renegade doesnt need a buff, since its able to hit big hitboxes at hard as dragonhunters ,while having overpowered teambuffsOn the golem they appear pretty close, but in practice dragonhunter does not have to deal with with hitbox-dependent damage as much, or losing damage from cleaving targets at all. Having to interrupt your rotation due to mechanics, dodges, or phases also doesn't cause as many issues on dragonhunter, or losing a chunk of your crit chance.

[Infusion.7149]

This is all backwards, herald needs slightly more power damage in PVE on the actual utilities + True Nature skills. Renegade is everywhere in PVE due to alacrity (condi RR or diviner power renegade).

[Chaos.7614]

They're probably going to save it for the expansion in all honesty. Really hope that they recognize herald needs love in PvE as a support and renegade should just be relegated to condi and control.

[Icetea.3204]

@Clownmug.8357 said:Nah, it's got to be hybrid spec. Otherwise there's no reason to have Kalla's Fervor boost ferocity, Brutal Momentum boost crit chance, and two grandmaster traits that provide might. Also the shortbow skills with conveniently high power coefficients...

Well, the crit chance was nice when you had torment on crit.I don't know what you are on about with the might. Might is good for conditions too.One of the traits you are talking about provides increased condition damage and the other one makes one of you condi skills (which tbf also deals a very good amount of power damage) hit more often.

[Clownmug.8357]

@Icetea.3204 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Nah, it's got to be hybrid spec. Otherwise there's no reason to have Kalla's Fervor boost ferocity, Brutal Momentum boost crit chance, and two grandmaster traits that provide might. Also the shortbow skills with conveniently high power coefficients...

Well, the crit chance was nice when you had torment on crit.I don't know what you are on about with the might. Might is good for conditions too.One of the traits you are talking about provides increased condition damage and the other one makes one of you condi skills (which tbf also deals a very good amount of power damage) hit more often.

Thanks for reinforcing the idea that it's a hybrid spec. ;)

[Icetea.3204]

@"Clownmug.8357" said:Thanks for reinforcing the idea that it's a hybrid spec. ;)

If the bar for hybrid is "Doesn't suck as much as necro" then sure. It's a hybrid. Otherwise I wouldn't consider a tiny but of ferocity and some crit chance (which had use for the condi spec when it was released) a hybrid.

[Clownmug.8357]

@Icetea.3204 said:

@"Clownmug.8357" said:Thanks for reinforcing the idea that it's a hybrid spec. ;)

If the bar for hybrid is "Doesn't suck as much as necro" then sure. It's a hybrid. Otherwise I wouldn't consider a tiny but of ferocity and some crit chance (which had use for the condi spec when it was released) a hybrid.

So 150-250 ferocity and +33% crit chance is considered a tiny bit now?

[Icetea.3204]

@Clownmug.8357 said:So 150-250 ferocity and +33% crit chance is considered a tiny bit now?

Getting at max 250 ferocity in an entire traitline that really doesn't provide anything else for power doesn't mean it's a hybrid. It's weird. And frankly the crit chance doesn't matter for this. Like I said, when renegade was released revenant had torment on crit. So it did make sense to have crit chance in a condi traitline. Sharing OWP on Soulbeast doesn't make you a support class. Getting 250 ferocity on renegade doesn't make it a power or hybrid spec.

[Clownmug.8357]

@Icetea.3204 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:So 150-250 ferocity and +33% crit chance is considered a tiny bit now?

Getting at max 250 ferocity in an entire traitline that really doesn't provide anything else for power doesn't mean it's a hybrid. It's weird. And frankly the crit chance doesn't matter for this. Like I said, when renegade was released revenant had torment on crit. So it did make sense to have crit chance in a condi traitline. Sharing OWP on Soulbeast doesn't make you a support class. Getting 250 ferocity on renegade doesn't make it a power or hybrid spec.

Ok, so ferocity's just there for no reason then...

[Cougre.6543]

@"Icetea.3204" said:condiI feel that arguing over whether Renegade is a condi spec is pointless.Why should its current state dictate what changes can be made to it?Why must changes adhere to some sort of imagined "purity" when almost no build is "pure" anyway? Least of all condi builds, which tend to deal at least 30% of their damage directly regardless?You already have one trait in each tier dedicated to condi and boon support, what do you expect the top row to be?

[Icetea.3204]

@"Cougre.6543" said:I feel that arguing over whether Renegade is a condi spec is pointless.Why should its current state dictate what changes can be made to it?Why must changes adhere to some sort of imagined "purity" when almost no build is "pure" anyway? Least of all condi builds, which tend to deal at least 30% of their damage directly regardless?You already have one trait in each tier dedicated to condi and boon support, what do you expect the top row to be?

Oh I agree with you. I would like for revenant to have a good power build. I was mostly resposing to the guy that said that renegade is a hybrid between power and condi, which in my opinion is simply not true. Condi Renegade actually only deals about 17% of its total damage as power damage.In all honesty though, renegade should not become a power spec. I'd rather give that spot to herald. Renegade is already really good and world's better than herald. It really doesn't need to be a power spec.

[otto.5684]

@Edge.8724 said:Not to forget that Renegade is also supposed to be a Condition Damage spec, not a power one.It's just that people seems to play it as a power spec.

It does out Dps herald and core power builds. Make of that what you wish.

The OP request makes far more sense for herald.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Power renegade is already higher than herald/revenant + the condi build is one of the most broken DPS of the game + the alacrity build is near mandatory everywhere + you also have a viable healer build, and you ask for more ? :#

Renegade is already on top in pve.Herald (and core) deserves more love from Anet. Still interesting design to share boons and boon duration, but not viable enough, lack of offensive buff.

[Cougre.6543]

Comparing power herald and renegade DPS is missing the point. Herald has utility that renegade will never have, or other classes for that matter. A more fair comparison would be alacrity renegade, at which point its DPS is actually lower.

[otto.5684]

@Cougre.6543 said:Comparing power herald and renegade DPS is missing the point. Herald has utility that renegade will never have, or other classes for that matter. A more fair comparison would be alacrity renegade, at which point its DPS is actually lower.

What is that utility? It does not provide much might, while the renegade can provide 100% uptime on 25 stacks, with very little cost. Renegade can put similar protection. Fury does not matter much, since most classes are self sufficient on that, and would be applied by support in the group. Same for reg. and F1 should only be used for damage, and the boom duration does not matter much, since support will take care of that. And btw, max dps herald uses shiro and jails.

The support herald provides is at best at the same value as renegade. It is not needed, since support will cover that anyway. Herald is only used for personal sustainability and nothing else.

[Virdo.1540]

@Cougre.6543 said:Comparing power herald and renegade DPS is missing the point. Herald has utility that renegade will never have, or other classes for that matter. A more fair comparison would be alacrity renegade, at which point its DPS is actually lower.

• The heal&Elite from renegade only kept alive for 20% of the fight is insanely more utility alone than everything from the herald
• the damage from Alac power renegade is only about 10-13% lower than the herald ones, while having one of the strongest boons in the game .... for 10 people
• theres also the option to play condi alac, which has an way better damage than herald