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Will there be little to no waypoints in EoD?


Smoosh.2718

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@Timbersword.9014 said:Go ahead and slap down a ton of waypoints. I'll continue to not use them except to move between land masses should no land route between Tyrie or Elona to Cantha exist. Still miffed I have to TP to Elona...I'm also not interested in punishing players with travel time. Death itself is enough of a punishment. I don't get this need to further hurt someone's play experience because they failed. It's not a competition.

You dont have to you can use the airship in lions arch or use spearmarshals plea if you done the griffon quest.

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In GW1's Eye of the North, there were asura gates underneath Kamadan and Kaineng Centre.I wouldn't be surprised if we saw asura in Cantha. Perhaps some asura from one of the underground cities made it to Cantha sometime around the death of the Great Destroyer?There are also the Dredge Tunnels underground too, but I think that would be less likely for asura to travel through.

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:Now the only thing you have actually accomplished is force people to spend more time doing the things they don't want just to get to the things they do want.

Exactly, as I said players need to be punished, doing something they do not want to do achieves this.

There is punishment and there is annoyance.

Me dying in Path of Exile and losing all the exp I gained in a week is punishing.

Me dying in GW2 and having to spend extra long time to get back due to shitty WPs placement is an annoyance. If it was actually meant to be punishing then it needs to do something more meaningful.

Then there is the fact that waypoints are used a lot more often for other things besides ressing. Now you are punishing people for simply trying to play the game.

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@"Khisanth.2948" said:If it was actually meant to be punishing then it needs to do something more meaningful.

I would be happy if they had some more meaningful way of punishing death.

One of the reasons I enjoy GW2 as much as I do is because dying isn't punitive. Coming from WoW, I love that dying in GW2 just feels like an "oops" instead of a failure with a 1000G repair bill.

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:Now the only thing you have actually accomplished is force people to spend more time doing the things they don't want just to get to the things they do want.

Exactly, as I said players need to be punished, doing something they do not want to do achieves this.

i say we hire some crackheads to burn their houses. that'll teach them to try and play properly. give them a workover with a baseball bat too.effin losers, how DARE they....

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Thought about this a bit myself too.

Mounts being a thing has already lead to reduced waypoints being added to new content so I expect something similar for Cantha.

Maybe we won't get Waypoints.. maybe there will be something else that from a lore perspective is different but mechanically will function the same.In Siren's Landing we had Shrines that you could teleport to just like waypoints (minus the fee) but you couldn't use them unless you were on that specific map.Anet could also maybe do a throwback to Gw1 and have certain outpost locations serve as fast travel points but have it so that we don't teleport to them but travel to those locations offscreen.. mechanically the same but lorewise, different.

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@Smoosh.2718 said:

@"AgentMoore.9453" said:Interesting point. By the third expansion, they may expect most players to have mounts to make up for reduced WPs, but I suspect they'll have to include them in some form for those who don't. Rather than Asuratech, you might instead see magical teleporters a bit like the god shrines in Siren's Landing (in addition to ley gliding and other mobility options).

HoT gave us gliding and mushrooms, PoF gave us mounts, Drizzlewood gave us parachute dropping. What EoD gives us in terms of movement remains to be seen, but it's gonna be present in some form, guaranteed.

Why on earth would people skip Stories? If you dont have a mount by the time you hit EoD thats the players fault, skipping story is bad, its not a surprise why some new players are clueless on what the story is all about, since they all went to PoF first before HoT.The story and it's presentation in this game rarely moves in quality beyond "above average". It is frequently uninspired, derivative and told in an unengaging manner. There's zero challenge and as such it becomes an exponentially worse experience when done with other people. It constantly jumps the shark with it's narrative beats and more often that not does a tremendous disservice to the lore and worldbuilding around it.There are dozens of perfectly valid reasons why players would want to skip the story.Its frequently just not fun.You can get as judgey as you like calling players who feel this way "clueless" but it doesnt make them wrong.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:Why should games even punish players?Once upon a time, they were meant to fill leisure time and help people relax.They ought not to add another layer of stress and frustration on top of what one's job already does.Once upon a time? Like actually losing progress on your toon in Everquest? Or the system in City of Heroes which penalized your future XP gain rate for a limited time? or World of Warcraft's extreme time sink of travel to and from your corpse?Maybe you are thinking about "the good old days" of GW1 when your entire instance reset when your entire party died.This game's zero sum penalty for death is not some wistful tribute to the simpler days of yore....it's a near unique pandering cop out that ultimately doesnt do the game any favors.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:Once upon a time? Like actually losing progress on your toon in Everquest?There's a reason why these old games had lower populations, you know.But yeah, the original MUDs/MMORPGs were not leisure games. They aimed mostly at a narrow niche of players we would consider today as ultra-hardcore.

World of Warcraft's extreme time sink of travel to and from your corpse?At the time WoW was introduced, that was actually considered to be an improvement to what was happening before. While it is now often thought out as a hardcore game, and a lot of its success is nowadays attached to it, the real truth is the exact opposite. The success of WoW is partly because it was the first MMORPG aimed at a more casual audience. Well, more casual compared to its predecessors anyway.Because, it turned out, that yes, most players did prefer leisure to challenge.

@mindcircus.1506 said:This game's zero sum penalty for death is not some wistful tribute to the simpler days of yore....True. The "simpler days of yore" aimed at a completely different (and much, much smaller) playerbase. Any attempt to return to it would probably kill most current games outright.

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@Khisanth.2948 said:Turning waypoints into actual in world objects instead of leaving them as purely game mechanics was a mistake in game design. Now every WP needs an explanation for > its existence.

This. They absolutely should have remained a mechanic that was ignored by lore. When you allow yourself to think to much about it waypoints break more than a few points of lore, and in one or two cases the Lore permanently breaks a waypoint (see the Fort Concordia waypoint, which appears on the map but hasn't function in at least five years, probably more).

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Timbersword.9014 said:Go ahead and slap down a ton of waypoints. I'll continue to not use them except to move between land masses should no land route between Tyrie or Elona to Cantha exist. Still miffed I have to TP to Elona...I'm also not interested in punishing players with travel time. Death itself is enough of a punishment. I don't get this need to further hurt someone's play experience because they failed. It's not a competition.

You dont have to you can use the airship in lions arch or use spearmarshals plea if you done the griffon quest.

Eh... the point is I want to walk to Elona, not fast travel. Lore wise, there IS a route, Ebonhold has just blocked it off because of the brand.

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@Timbersword.9014 said:

@Timbersword.9014 said:Go ahead and slap down a ton of waypoints. I'll continue to not use them except to move between land masses should no land route between Tyrie or Elona to Cantha exist. Still miffed I have to TP to Elona...I'm also not interested in punishing players with travel time. Death itself is enough of a punishment. I don't get this need to further hurt someone's play experience because they failed. It's not a competition.

You dont have to you can use the airship in lions arch or use spearmarshals plea if you done the griffon quest.

Eh... the point is I want to walk to Elona, not fast travel. Lore wise, there IS a route, Ebonhold has just blocked it off because of the brand.

I honestly cant understand why they never opened that route up... or why the story didn't start there.

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We arrive in Cantha and some Asura coming with us open an Embassy - first waypoint.

We get to a point in the story - about 20 minutes of gameplay in, similar to where Path of Fire gave the raptor - and they link their waypoint to a local network built by the Canthans - second waypoint, and as we travel Canthan waypoints we now pass open up to us.

We get a side story about some Asuran who's insulted that humans were able to independently replicate this technology without even seeing their version first, and who insists the human version must be flawed and won't work right - ending when he uses a waypoint and... is not heard from again.

3 chapters into the post expansion Living Story - we find that Asura somewhere on the top of a mountain and figure out whatever must have happened...

It could then be a recurring expansion theme that Asurans are 'shocked' humans could do 'all the things they have done here' and keep insisting they must have a pack of their own Asurans locked away in a lab somewhere... which... we never find... because it doesn't exist... and human Canthans repeatedly stating things like "clearly humanity unbothered by you lesser non-humans can achieve great things, the Emperor should extend his gracious hand to the rest of Tyria and remove you shell-less kappas from there as well..."

  • However... "somewhere" in northern Cantha, deep under the ruins of some ancient part of Keaning... will be a mini-dungeon. In this dungeon is a lab that until some recent event broke the wall sat empty for thousands of years... and in that lab are the ruins of some ancient waypoint like device, and an image on a metal plate of a map... that looks suspiciously like Earth...
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@TheGrimm.5624 said:There needs to be some form of fast travel. Players should not have to spend have their playtime just getting to where they are looking to game for that night.

You, and many others may want fast travel but I don't. Been in this franchise for 15 years, and some of us can see how waypoints dilute the experience of actually meeting other people and having meaningful expierences.

You know what they call games with waypoints like this? A Theme park MMO. Going from one carnival ride to the next.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:There needs to be some form of fast travel. Players should not have to spend have their playtime just getting to where they are looking to game for that night.

You, and many others may want fast travel but I don't. Been in this franchise for 15 years, and some of us can see how waypoints dilute the experience of actually meeting other people and having meaningful expierences.

You know what they call games with waypoints like this? A Theme park MMO. Going from one carnival ride to the next.

The option ought to be available, though. If a player wants to zip across the map using waypoints or mounts, then they should have that option. If a player prefers to not use those items, then that player should have that option. Let's not get back on the topic of forcing interactions again.

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@kharmin.7683 said:The option ought to be available, though. If a player wants to zip across the map using waypoints or mounts, then they should have that option. If a player prefers to not use those items, then that player should have that option. Let's not get back on the topic of forcing interactions again.

Except, giving an option that is the most optimal way to do something, is like giving a fisherman the option to learn a strategy to catch 20 fish a day, or the option to learn a strategy to catch a thousand fish a day. Clearly it's less optimal to play a game without waypoints, so people will chose the most optimal path if given the option because it's optimal, even logical way to play a game...

But just because something is logical and optimal, does not mean it's not bad and unhealthy for the game...Think about how metagames are bad for the community...having the most optimal choices of builds to play the game kills off all the other off-meta builds even if they are even remotely less optimal...would you say that's healthy? Or do you think that elitist raiding mentality is healthy...Encouraging the use of waypoints is like supporting that mentality.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:There needs to be some form of fast travel. Players should not have to spend have their playtime just getting to where they are looking to game for that night.

You, and many others may want fast travel but I don't. Been in this franchise for 15 years, and some of us can see how waypoints dilute the experience of actually meeting other people and having meaningful expierences.

You know what they call games with waypoints like this? A Theme park MMO. Going from one carnival ride to the next.

Yeah , I doubt us going across the map on my raptor to get to an event will result in me talking to others on their raptors.Just for fun take mounts out of the equation and go walk thru lake doric or bloodstone fen and the aggro radius of white mantle or for even more great gaming exp go to pof and cut thru jacaranda or ibogas. Just walk thru them and see how fun this would make the game constanly aggroes and pulled and knocked down on the way to events.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:The option ought to be available, though. If a player wants to zip across the map using waypoints or mounts, then they should have that option. If a player prefers to not use those items, then that player should have that option. Let's not get back on the topic of forcing interactions again.

Except, giving an option that is the most optimal way to do something, is like giving a fisherman the option to learn a strategy to catch 20 fish a day, or the option to learn a strategy to catch a thousand fish a day.What about the option for someone who pays the fisherman to catch the fish?

Clearly it's less optimal to play a game without waypoints, so people will chose the most optimal path if given the option because it's optimal, even logical way to play a game...Clearly? There aren't MMOs out there without waypoints or similar methods for rapid travel? You, yourself, probably wouldn't use waypoints based on your previous thread. Does that mean that you would actively choose a less optimal path?

But just because something is logical and optimal, does not mean it's not bad and unhealthy for the game...Think about how metagames are bad for the community...having the most optimal choices of builds to play the game kills off all the other off-meta builds even if they are even remotely less optimal...would you say that's healthy?I'm not sure what it is you're getting at here. Meta does not equal unhealthy. I've been playing GW2 for over 7 years (and GW1 for a few before) and have never used a meta build. I enjoy playing just fine. Other players who choose to follow meta builds or not do not impact my playing GW2 at all.

Or do you think that elitist raiding mentality is healthy...Encouraging the use of waypoints is like supporting that mentality.Oh, so now I see what you're trying to get at. This is not even something that can be remotely compared.

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One option could be made that waypoints are installed as the story gets progressed, so you see them being installed, but are only unlocked after each part of the story is done. This would bring the question of, should this be account bound or character? I can see too many complaints about how unfriendly it would be to alts if you had to do the story on all, so making them only unlock once you have done the story would be better. At least then we have some lore as to how the hell they got there.

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@Smoosh.2718 said:One option could be made that waypoints are installed as the story gets progressed, so you see them being installed, but are only unlocked after each part of the story is done. This would bring the question of, should this be account bound or character? I can see too many complaints about how unfriendly it would be to alts if you had to do the story on all, so making them only unlock once you have done the story would be better. At least then we have some lore as to how the hell they got there.

I would prefer them to NOT be locked behind story content. There are players who do not want to play out the entire story.

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