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The Death of Thief


darren.1064

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Highlie.7641" said:Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

thief is one of the best +1 classes, it moves to +1 faster then anything else. they drop on you from stealth, so opener has no counter-play, they cant overextend since its thief and they never die. Yes, others can do more damage then thief, but thief +1 better then them since damage is NOT everything, also. Thief is very good for teamfights, blasting smoke field against team without stealth alone can be a GG for the enemy team, lights out.

So what's more important in a +1 than damage in a PvP system that's designed for u to do damage and kill people on an opposing team? Because maybe I should reroll to that build instead.

Being able to quickly arrive from somewhere to said +1, being able to instantly jump onto the person that you gank, and being able to do it from stealth so that they dont know you are coming. If damage was the only thing that mattered in ganking you would see meme 1shot berserkers doing the ganking but you dont. You have thief cuz1 its the fastest2 it never dies3 it attacks from stealth and has so much of it that you cant tell where thief is unless you are on comms, and even then...

Remember when there were other "meme 1shot gankers" like: Berserker, GS Mesmer, Shiro Rev, and Soulbeast off the top of my head? Pepperidge Farm remembers. and 2 of those builds could sustain stealth. And if we want to delve into some PvP history, they were all very much troublesome and impervious to dying because their damage was so so high. Now did I have a problem with them? Nope. Should they come back? Maybe. But if they come back then you'll remember that thief wasn't even the best +1 class, it's simply just a few seconds faster with lesser damage.

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Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

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@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

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@Frodox.1283 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

you dont understand what +1 means. It means to outnumber your enemy by 1 player, you join 3v3 to make it 4v3 or you join side node 1v1 to make it a 2v1.difference in 1v1 and 1v2 is so massive that no matter how low the damage is, at the very least you get a decap out of it, at best you get a kill, full cap and a bleed to take out oponent for ~30s, all the while you zoom back mid in 15s

EDITI read through the rest of your post.Im low rank rn since I have been off for several months, and you can legit win a game just by running between nodes like a monkey.low ranked players leave nodes and dont look back. Heck it, since I play power mirage RN I just had a game where I did 700k dmg, went 20 kills 1 death and almost lots, if I was a thief I would make 5/0 and handily win just by capping/decapping and taking out pressured targets.

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@Frodox.1283 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 offensive traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3
offensive
traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

Ok dagger\pistol

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3
offensive
traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

Agree, where these 5k should come from ? From a perfect condition backstep w/o any evade left, condi proc sigill and crit ? ... for sure these 5k arnt our super dooper 210crit AA's ...

We r just in the meta bc of our mobility ... reach the +1 a bit faster than the real killers like rene/rev which is for sure an advantage in p2+ and mat or other tourneys but for the rest of the playerbase 95% it is garbage ?

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@Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3
offensive
traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

Agree, where these 5k should come from ? From a perfect condition backstep w/o any evade left, condi proc sigill and crit ? ... for sure these 5k arnt our super dooper 210crit AA's ...

We r just in the meta bc of our mobility ... reach the +1 a bit faster than the real killers like rene/rev which is for sure an advantage in p2+ and mat or other tourneys but for the rest of the playerbase 95% it is garbage ?

I get them daily. Anything a thief does hits between 4.5k and 5.5k, with perma blind and perma stealth on d\p, or perma evade if the thief feels original and runs something else

Backstab? 4.5k from stealth, no ini cost too so it's free, good luck dodging it and even if you do, there's another one coming so who caresShadowshot? 4.5k + unblockable blind + range tooCloak and dagger? 4.5k and stealth, sometimes damage is even higher, once I got hit for 8k and I'm still struggling to understand how tf dat happened. It doesn't have range but as any skill you can steal into it so it's finePistol whip? Stun + evade + got hit for 6.8k after patch. Nobody runs it anymore, IDK why and I don't really care either, but the damage is thereLarcenous strike? 5k, unblockable [EDIT: 5k is BS, it's actually 3k]. Yeah, range pretty poor and sadly, it's not like sword has an immobilize + 900 range teleport that ignores LOSCluster bomb? That one's more random, anything from 2.5k to 4.5k depending on how the RNG god blesses you.

Once any of that connects it's just a spam fiesta of heartseeker, which again, hits for at least 4k when used under the right conditions. And that's assuming the thief in question isn't even running condi, which brings a whole lot of different issues, -'cause the damage is still there-, but at least it can't chase\stealth as much so at least there's some room for some semblance of counterplay, 'cause in every other scenario the only way to deal with a thief is just to tank until the guy eventually gets bored and find something else to do. If you can't kill anyone despite having large access to unblockables, blinds, stealths, plenty of dodges, immunity to any kind of movement impeding conditions and what not it's kinda your fault 'cause the tools are there.

All in all, everything a thief does hits 4k+, except autoattacks, you wanted grenade kit too? Can't really understand how all of these thieves can come up with all of that BS about being weak and underpowered, at this point it's either trolling or a serious fat fingers issue.

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Thief is not good in solo queue. That's not a breaking news. I don't know how it is at lower divisions as my lowest placement ever was gold3, and at that part of the ladder bunker players are too good to lose a 1v1 at a sidenode against a thief and there is enough cleave at mid to push you into defense, but the overal tactical understanding is still too low that the group can play around the strengths of a thief. So you end up completely useless in at least every second match and only as useful as any other class in the rest of the matches, which is overall not enough to climb higher.

In duo queue thief has always been great. In tournaments it was viable 80% of the game's life span. The more glassy the meta the more usefull thief is.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3
offensive
traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

Ok dagger\pistol

Yes, thats the standard build. Thats the one does less than 5k damage on its backstab with 3 offensive traitlines.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3
offensive
traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

Agree, where these 5k should come from ? From a perfect condition backstep w/o any evade left, condi proc sigill and crit ? ... for sure these 5k arnt our super dooper 210crit AA's ...

We r just in the meta bc of our mobility ... reach the +1 a bit faster than the real killers like rene/rev which is for sure an advantage in p2+ and mat or other tourneys but for the rest of the playerbase 95% it is garbage ?

I get them daily. Anything a thief does hits between 4.5k and 5.5k, with perma blind and perma stealth on d\p, or perma evade if the thief feels original and runs something else

Backstab? 4.5k from stealth, no ini cost too so it's free, good luck dodging it and even if you do, there's another one coming so who caresShadowshot? 4.5k + unblockable blind + range tooCloak and dagger? 4.5k and stealth, sometimes damage is even higher, once I got hit for 8k and I'm still struggling to understand how tf dat happened. It doesn't have range but as any skill you can steal into it so it's finePistol whip? Stun + evade + got hit for 6.8k after patch. Nobody runs it anymore, IDK why and I don't really care either, but the damage is thereLarcenous strike? 5k, unblockable. Yeah, range pretty poor and sadly, it's not like sword has an immobilize + 900 range teleport that ignores LOSCluster bomb? That one's more random, anything from 2.5k to 4.5k depending on how the RNG god blesses you.

... how exactly do you think shadowshot, Larcenous Strike and CnD do the same amount of damage as backstab when they have at least 33% lower scaling, and often more than that? You realise the problem with your argument, right? In reality, they do around 3k, sometimes 2k.

Once any of that connects it's just a spam fiesta of heartseeker, which again, hits for at least 4k when used under the right conditions. And that's assuming the thief in question isn't even running condi, which brings a whole lot of different issues, -'cause the damage is still there-, but at least it can't chase\stealth as much so at least there's some room for some semblance of counterplay, 'cause in every other scenario the only way to deal with a thief is just to tank until the guy eventually gets bored and find something else to do. If you can't kill anyone despite having large access to unblockables, blinds, stealths, plenty of dodges, immunity to any kind of movement impeding conditions and what not it's kinda your fault 'cause the tools are there.

It hits for 4k if the enemy is really low. And condi thief isnt good, so Im not sure why youre bringing it up. And no, the tools arent there. Thief cant kill anyone in a 1v1, and its not supposed to.

All in all, everything a thief does hits 4k+, except autoattacks, you wanted grenade kit too? Can't really understand how all of these thieves can come up with all of that BS about being weak and underpowered, at this point it's either trolling or a serious fat fingers issue.

Yeah except as you point out yourself (though only indirectly), only backstab does. Barely. Against squishy enemies.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

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@darren.1064 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

[iNSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"]

Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-.

I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

[iNSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"]

Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-.

I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

This is such bs, anyone can go into the mists and run cs,trickery and dd or da, trickery and dd with a dp build and go invis/steal bs and see the damage on the heavy golem is 3-4k somthing. Most thief players no their avg dps of most builds they use. If uve got certain boons, enemie meets certain criteria ie health threshold for traits like executioner and such and hit glassy targets sometimes u can get upwards of 8k crits on backstab especially if running core da,cs, and trickery along with zerker but that is far from the norm though. A normal dd build with trickery and cs/da hits for anywhere between 2k-4k with 5k-6k if certain criteria are met. People on these forums need to stop inflating their damage numbers to fit their agenda especially when trying to state them as the avg.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

[iNSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"]

Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-.

I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

This is such bs, anyone can go into the mists and run cs,trickery and dd or da, trickery and dd with a dp build and go invis/steal bs and see the damage on the heavy golem is 3-4k somthing. Most thief players no their avg dps of most builds they use. If uve got certain boons, enemie meets certain criteria ie health threshold for traits like executioner and such and hit glassy targets sometimes u can get upwards of 8k crits on backstab especially if running core da,cs, and trickery along with zerker but that is far from the norm though. A normal dd build with trickery and cs/da hits for anywhere between 2k-4k with 5k-6k if certain criteria are met. People on these forums need to stop inflating their damage numbers to fit their agenda especially when trying to state them as the avg.

Did you know, light armor target takes 37,55% more damage then heavy golem? now you know.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Frodox.1283 said:Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :(

The absolute state of this class I stg

I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

[iNSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"]

Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-.

I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

This is such bs, anyone can go into the mists and run cs,trickery and dd or da, trickery and dd with a dp build and go invis/steal bs and see the damage on the heavy golem is 3-4k somthing. Most thief players no their avg dps of most builds they use. If uve got certain boons, enemie meets certain criteria ie health threshold for traits like executioner and such and hit glassy targets sometimes u can get upwards of 8k crits on backstab especially if running core da,cs, and trickery along with zerker but that is far from the norm though. A normal dd build with trickery and cs/da hits for anywhere between 2k-4k with 5k-6k if certain criteria are met. People on these forums need to stop inflating their damage numbers to fit their agenda especially when trying to state them as the avg.

Did you know, light armor target takes 37,55% more damage then heavy golem? now you know.

I mentioned glassy targets, as they should take more damage as a light armor or glassy build, also some lights can sustain through healing and barriers aka ele. Lower their burst more and u want them to hit heavy's for 1.5k while hitting glass for 3.5k cuz that be real viable burst right their for a rogue like.

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The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

It's all so utterly silly.Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

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@Yasai.3549 said:The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

It's all so utterly silly.Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

Yeah they do as they should because it's only because of arguements regarding thief that some made up rule that high mobility means low bursts which is the opposite of what u see with any rogue archetype in every mmo etc which is low hp/armor, low sustained damage but high mobility and burst through teleports and other mean and usually if not always resort to those movements and gimmicks as a means to sustain itself ie stealth and ports etc. Nighblade in eso= stealth and teleportation, rogue in wow= stealth and teleportation, bdo ninja= stealth teleportation all with a high burst hit and run type playstyle and gw2 is and shouldn't be any different. That said just like the rogue like being similar in every mmo they also recieve the same complaints in every forum, except wow as it seems everyone has just except led the perma stealth gank playstyle of rogue and mostly complain when its cc or burst is to high like the beginning of pre patch where subs burst was bit overturned.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

It's all so utterly silly.Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

Yeah they do as they should because it's only because of arguements regarding thief that some made up rule that high mobility means low bursts which is the opposite of what u see with any rogue archetype in every mmo etc which is low hp/armor, low sustained damage but high mobility and burst through teleports and other mean and usually if not always resort to those movements and gimmicks as a means to sustain itself ie stealth and ports etc. Nighblade in eso= stealth and teleportation, rogue in wow= stealth and teleportation, bdo ninja= stealth teleportation all with a high burst hit and run type playstyle and gw2 is and shouldn't be any different. That said just like the rogue like being similar in every mmo they also recieve the same complaints in every forum, except wow as it seems everyone has just except led the perma stealth gank playstyle of rogue and mostly complain when its cc or burst is to high like the beginning of pre patch where subs burst was bit overturned.

It should be high risk (lower substain) high reward (higher burst) not low risk (high substain due to stealth, evade) and low reward (noodle dmg) and lost point bc impossible to duell any class in this game on point compared to low risk bunkers ?

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@Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

It's all so utterly silly.Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

Yeah they do as they should because it's only because of arguements regarding thief that some made up rule that high mobility means low bursts which is the opposite of what u see with any rogue archetype in every mmo etc which is low hp/armor, low sustained damage but high mobility and burst through teleports and other mean and usually if not always resort to those movements and gimmicks as a means to sustain itself ie stealth and ports etc. Nighblade in eso= stealth and teleportation, rogue in wow= stealth and teleportation, bdo ninja= stealth teleportation all with a high burst hit and run type playstyle and gw2 is and shouldn't be any different. That said just like the rogue like being similar in every mmo they also recieve the same complaints in every forum, except wow as it seems everyone has just except led the perma stealth gank playstyle of rogue and mostly complain when its cc or burst is to high like the beginning of pre patch where subs burst was bit overturned.

It should be high risk (lower substain) high reward (higher burst) not low risk (high substain due to stealth, evade) and low reward (noodle dmg) and lost point bc impossible to duell any class in this game on point compared to low risk bunkers ?

@Yasai.3549 said:The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

It's all so utterly silly.Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

Yeah they do as they should because it's only because of arguements regarding thief that some made up rule that high mobility means low bursts which is the opposite of what u see with any rogue archetype in every mmo etc which is low hp/armor, low sustained damage but high mobility and burst through teleports and other mean and usually if not always resort to those movements and gimmicks as a means to sustain itself ie stealth and ports etc. Nighblade in eso= stealth and teleportation, rogue in wow= stealth and teleportation, bdo ninja= stealth teleportation all with a high burst hit and run type playstyle and gw2 is and shouldn't be any different. That said just like the rogue like being similar in every mmo they also recieve the same complaints in every forum, except wow as it seems everyone has just except led the perma stealth gank playstyle of rogue and mostly complain when its cc or burst is to high like the beginning of pre patch where subs burst was bit overturned.

It should be high risk (lower substain) high reward (higher burst) not low risk (high substain due to stealth, evade) and low reward (noodle dmg) and lost point bc impossible to duell any class in this game on point compared to low risk bunkers ?

The fact ur using active means as ur way of sustain such as evades and stealth which most time requires stacking skills which also uses the thief's global resourse is perfectly fine along with low hp/armor but high burst and low sustained damage. U can't have even a high burst class having no way to sustain itself as thst would be horrible design but instead should have to depend on evades, stealth and teleportation while non burst classes should have blocks and barriers and other means to sustain itself while in the fight allowing them to apply their damage consistently throughout the fight, that with the added hp/armor are the upside to soposed less burst but in gw2 these classes have often times high mobility and burst as well and has been this way in gw2 so long its accepted and normalized and is one reason why the balance in this game is so horribly bad.

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@Yasai.3549 said:Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?It probably isn't the initiative system why Thieves are weak.

I believe the problem actually is Thief's runaway disengage potential.Thief can have far too much access to Stealth and mobility.In my opinion, that's were Thief should get nerfed in exchange for having more damage.

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@Yasai.3549 said:The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

It's all so utterly silly.Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

my idea for thief was that they would have skills with cooldowns as anyone else, but once per cooldown they would be able to bypass the cooldown and pay it in initiative instead. inc ini pool to like 100, have 5 ini reg/s. and skills cost ~40-60 ini depending on impact.that was thief has to know what their skills actually do instead of using only 2-3, maybe it would take some effort to play the class, also also. This would fix the stealth blast spamming, 6s while in combat, 12s out of combat if you switch between sets. Actually balanced.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:

I believe the problem actually is Thief's runaway disengage potential.Thief can have far too much access to Stealth and mobility.In my opinion, that's were Thief should get nerfed in exchange for having more damage.

The only reason they are able to do this is because of ini system.With no cooldown to gate, they can Blackpowder + Heartseeker as many times as they want until resource runs out.

As a "tradeoff" (heh using Anet's favourite term), their skills have become weak over the years because they have been systematically "tweaked" to accommodate the fact they have no cooldowns gating proper resource management and as such can function at a much higher capacity than any other Profession (at least on the damage front)

So we end up with a no cooldown profession with alot of very mundane "basic" abilities.Alot of Thief skills are literally Press X get X in nature.

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