Can we get Gaile Gray back please?

[kharmin.7683]

@Astralporing.1957 said:--snip --I'm not arguing that things have been poorly managed in this regard. I'm only trying to point out why Anet might not want to say anything to the forum at all anymore. Hindsight is 20/20.

If they came out and said, Sorry Alliances is tabled until further notice, then I believe a lot of people would still kitten and moan about it. They simply cannot win for offering more or no communication at this point. Given that, I believe Anet has chosen no communication, lest something be said that some group of posters would then glam on and attack them with.

[Astralporing.1957]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:--snip --I'm not arguing that things have been poorly managed in this regard. I'm only trying to point out why Anet might not want to say anything to the forum at all anymore.

Oh, i know that is why they do so. I just point out that's not a good approach to take.

If they came out and said, Sorry Alliances is tabled until further notice, then I believe a lot of people would still kitten and moan about it.Some would, some wouldn't. There would be less complains and more trust compared to how it is now.

They simply cannot win for offering more or no communication at this point.See above - i would consider this at least a partial win. Instead, they decided to lose by default.

Given that, I believe Anet has chosen no communication, lest something be said that some group of posters would then glam on and attack them with.That's about as reasonable as deciding to

do

nothing, because no matter what they might do, there will be some players that won't like it.

[Linken.6345]

@Raizel.1839 said:No thanks, I still remember the screenshot of one of her posts toward a player, it was extremely toxic.

Screenshots can be faked tho.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Raizel.1839 said:No thanks, I still remember the screenshot of one of her posts toward a player, it was extremely toxic.

There is more to what had happened..'there are more than meet the eyes' and I will not discuss it the forum neither. All I can say is, 'when you play with fire be prepared to get burned'

In the end, she is a human being just as we are and feel as we are

As an Advocate against Toxicity, her action was justifed

[Ashen.2907]

If there is an actual issue, a bug for example, impacting my ability to play the game then I would like updates to keep me informed of progress in addressing the matter. Otherwise I don't really need the producer of a product I am using to be constantly hyping, updating, spamming me about the product. When the expansion gets closer to release I will examine what it is advertised to contain and make the decision to buy, or not, at that time. If Anet mention that they are working on a feature but have no set ETA then I will ignore the matter until it arrives.

No other producer that I buy from is expected to constantly reach out to me about the product or be considered to not care about their customers or product.

[Obtena.7952]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Solanum.6983" said:I wish they'd hire a community manager, Other games have teams of people dedicated to this but even just one person to answer FAQs on here, reddit or social media would be a huge help. Set up a staff discord channel for the community manager to relay questions and answers.

I'm not asking for total transparency on their workflow but for example a simple yes/no if the Legendary armory is planned before End of dragons or if there's going to be a balance patch before the end of the year would be a big step in right direction.

Again, they have been burned by this community in the past for soft-announcing something like this and when it doesn't come through they've been called a bunch of liars. We only have ourselves to blame.

"We" are not a hive mind. I am not responsible for the posts of others nor are they for mine. Lumping the entire community together like this makes no sense.

ArenaNet are professionals, they know that, certainly a professional community manager would know it.

I think the problem has always been less to do with them announcing something and it not coming out and more to do with them announcing something and then going silent on the matter.

If they kept up the communication on these subjects there would be far fewer posts born out of frustration on these forums.Ok, fine. "We". I edited that for you. I thought that it was apparent in the intent, but no one can assume anything anymore. I hope that the edit is clear enough now. Let me know if I need to be more specific and I'll see what I can do.

Yet my point remains the same. Just because a few people in that community are kittens that isn't a good enough reason to not talk to the rest of that community.No, but I understand why they wouldn't.Also, you continue to lay the blame at the feet of a section of the community and that's wrong. ArenaNet must share in that blame too. They set up expectations at the start when they posted their plans. Then they went silent and failed to manage those expectations by continuing to talk with and update the community when their plans changed.Did you miss my post directly above yours?

@kharmin.7683 said:That's kind of my point. Alliances should never have been announced until it was much closer to actual deployment. People want more communication from Anet, but what are they going to tell us? Anything they say is often considered a "promise" that something will be done, and then when it isn't they're raked over the coals for it.

Yes, I did miss that post, the two posts were made 14 minutes apart but it's not like it's all that relevant to what I said.

I said they share the blame for the poor relationship with the vitriolic of the community because they mismanaged the expectations and went silent. You say that they should announce features much closer to actual deployment.

I will give you that ... Anet thought they were going to be different and talk to their players more ... they should have realized how much work was involved with this in the first place as well as understanding how players would take things they say as SOME level of commitment to the game.

Really, there is no 'toe in' the pool here ... Anet should have either dived and stayed IN DEEP or stayed dry. If it were my choice, I would just avoid forum communications all together at this point if I was them. Game updates notifications and patches ... and that's about all.

[Pifil.5193]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Solanum.6983" said:I wish they'd hire a community manager, Other games have teams of people dedicated to this but even just one person to answer FAQs on here, reddit or social media would be a huge help. Set up a staff discord channel for the community manager to relay questions and answers.

I'm not asking for total transparency on their workflow but for example a simple yes/no if the Legendary armory is planned before End of dragons or if there's going to be a balance patch before the end of the year would be a big step in right direction.

Again, they have been burned by this community in the past for soft-announcing something like this and when it doesn't come through they've been called a bunch of liars. We only have ourselves to blame.

"We" are not a hive mind. I am not responsible for the posts of others nor are they for mine. Lumping the entire community together like this makes no sense.

ArenaNet are professionals, they know that, certainly a professional community manager would know it.

I think the problem has always been less to do with them announcing something and it not coming out and more to do with them announcing something and then going silent on the matter.

If they kept up the communication on these subjects there would be far fewer posts born out of frustration on these forums.Ok, fine. "We". I edited that for you. I thought that it was apparent in the intent, but no one can assume anything anymore. I hope that the edit is clear enough now. Let me know if I need to be more specific and I'll see what I can do.

Yet my point remains the same. Just because a few people in that community are kittens that isn't a good enough reason to not talk to the rest of that community.No, but I understand why they wouldn't.Also, you continue to lay the blame at the feet of a section of the community and that's wrong. ArenaNet must share in that blame too. They set up expectations at the start when they posted their plans. Then they went silent and failed to manage those expectations by continuing to talk with and update the community when their plans changed.Did you miss my post directly above yours?

@kharmin.7683 said:That's kind of my point. Alliances should never have been announced until it was much closer to actual deployment. People want more communication from Anet, but what are they going to tell us? Anything they say is often considered a "promise" that something will be done, and then when it isn't they're raked over the coals for it.

Yes, I did miss that post, the two posts were made 14 minutes apart but it's not like it's all that relevant to what I said.

I said they share the blame for the poor relationship with the vitriolic of the community because they mismanaged the expectations and went silent. You say that they should announce features much closer to actual deployment.

I will give you that ... Anet thought they were going to be different and talk to their players more ... they should have realized how much work was involved with this in the first place as well as understanding how players would take things they say as SOME level of commitment to the game.

Really, there is no 'toe in' the pool here ... Anet should have either dived and stayed IN DEEP or stayed dry. If it were my choice, I would just avoid forum communications all together at this point if I was them. Game updates notifications and patches ... and that's about all.

I think you've hit the nail right on the head there. They should have either committed to frank and frequent communication or else stayed quiet about their plans until they were ready to drop.

I personally would prefer if they did the former but if they can't consistently do it then it makes much more sense to do the latter.

Given the last few months I think that, once again, they have decided to avoid the forums. Realistically, a quarterly roadmap is about the best we can expect.

[Yggranya.5201]

Still don't see what communications is going to achieve since they aren't allowed to actually give out any information, if they even have any information. Some empty talk and emptier promises from someone who isn't even a part of any kind of development team means less than nothing. Still, people get WAY too into games and their favourite games community. Crazy is what it is.

[Jwake.7013]

Imagine a game having a community manager... and listening to them.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I think the overall reduction of communication and involvement of ArenaNet employees with the forums is the main reason for the increase of an overall atmosphere of toxicity here at the forums. The community wants to get heard. Players want to communicate their concerns, ideas and suggestions to the ArenaNet team, but hardly ever get a reply. This leads to frustrations. Nothing against moderation, I understand that we need to keep the forum tidy but when the chance is greater to get a warning by an anonymous forum moderator than to get your voice heard, then this does not leave forum contributors with a positive feeling. Players have for example asked for years for the status of the WvW alliance system that was announced years ago. And asked for years if GW2 could get native DX11, DX12 and/or Vulkan support. Why isn't there anyone at ArenaNet to address these questions?

While overall, I think that the GW2 community is still quite friendly and helpful and in love with the game. Even when there is a lot left to wish for. But when the community feels that they are heard, that the many ideas, suggestions, complaints are noticed by ArenaNet by getting replies, then I think toxicity will largely go away here.

Of course, we as community also need to do our part. Do we really need ten threads about the question if GW2 is dying or not? But more than 50% of the threads are directly or indirectly addressed at ArenaNet. And while I understand not every one of them can get a reply, more involvement would be the key to a better atmosphere here.

This concern is directed towards ArenaNet and I hope to get a reply.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

This concern is directed towards ArenaNet and I hope to get a reply.

said in very sweet Siri voice

The mail box of the user you are trying to reach is full.

Goodbye.

[Stormcrow.7513]

I remember when gw2 was in beta and I saw Gaile in-game. It blew me away because I was a GW1 veteran. I decided to send her an in game email with some advice regarding a feature in-game which i can't even remember To my surprise she emailed back and thanked me for the input and the gift(i sent her a flower). Unreal. I still have the in-game mail to this day and it will NEVER be deleted.

Saw her again many years later in-game and mentioned how cool the message was from years ago and how everyone loved her. She responded again in a very gracious way.

[ugrakarma.9416]

nothing against her, she did an excellent job within her scope.but the role of community manager is quite useless these days.I prefer the way it is today, less talkative, more content. since the team reform, the number of resolved QOL changes has increased dramatically.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:The community wants to get heard. Players want to communicate their concerns, ideas and suggestions to the ArenaNet team, but hardly ever get a reply.No.The part of the community that gets upset about "lack of communication" is a small number of players that believe they are somehow entitled to a seat at the developers table because they buy 10 bucks worth of gems a month.Players can and do voice their concerns, ideas and suggestions to Anet all they want via this forum and reddit.What these players are actually upset about is the lack of an Arenanet employee saying "Great idea, we are going to add this into the next patch"What they don't want to hear is the reality of why so many of the concerns, ideas or suggestions made are absolute garbage made by self-interested players with zero understanding of the challenges and limitations of game development.

Do you want actual dev feedback in the PvP forums that says "You are confusing bad balance with your own low skill cap" on the 9.5/10 posts where this is the case?Do you think the community would respond well to an Anet employee in whatever current "HoT is too hard" thread is going saying "The actual way to mitigate your problems is by playing better"?Do you think that post a few months ago by a forum regular that said Elite Specs should be modelled after comic book superheroes should have seen a developer response?And what if a dev popped into one of the usual whines about Legendary Armory and said "The reason this system is taking a while is because we are tying it to an optional cosmetic loadout system that will operate in conjuction with Equipment Templates and will be monetized in a similar fashion" ?

The desire for Increased Developer Communication is little more than a small segment of this community attempting to wag the dog.

[kharmin.7683]

She left voluntarily. What could Anet possibly and reasonably offer that would cause her to reconsider and come back?

[Ashantara.8731]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:The part of the community that gets upset about "lack of communication" is a small number of players that believe they are somehow entitled to a seat at the developers table because they buy 10 bucks worth of gems a month.

Wow.

Sure, it is impertinent to want to know the utmost basics on what is happening in the game, having to guess the developer's intentions and plans (like the latest story release, mastery and community event). What an insolence on our part! Even when it was more than 10 bucks. ;)

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Same as @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493", my experiences with her were not very good. But I will not stomp on her work, she did a good job. Every human has their own edges and preferences. You cannot be friends with everyone on the planet.

I do miss one certain point however. Before she left, she created and started to fill the

Guild Wars 2 and Forum Policies

. This was probably one of the most annoying, tedious and also dangerous tasks on the forums. I totally understand that no one dared to continue this section. But if it was completed, it would have saved us (and them) a lot of trouble. It is not useless, the topics she managed to write are a huge help.

A staff-member I really miss is Mr. Cleary. He engaged in the difficult and heated discussions, listened to our problems and answered the most important questions.

Is not everything covered in

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/the-forums-code-of-conduct/

Guild Wars 2 Official Forums: Code of Conduct (“Forums Code of Conduct”)?

I, too, miss Chris Cleary, Chris Whiteside and Michael Henninger...among others.

Sorry, I deactivated the notifications a while ago and noticed this one a bit too late. But as the topic was necro-bumped again, I can answer this now.

The Forums Code of Conduct are the forum-rules. They are not really game-related and solve none of the conflicts and problems we run into while playing. The "Guild Wars 2 and Forum Policies" mentioned by me contain the words "Forum Policies." But if you open the link, you get to a small list of unique topics explaining game-related (not forum related) problems and issues. I did not name that section, but in my opinion the word "Forum" in that name is confusing.

The topics Mrs. Gray already cleared:

• RMT
• Dual and Multiboxing
• Buying and Selling Runs
• Macros and Macro Use
• Unattended Gameplay
• Third Party Programs
• Looking For Group Tool

If the section was completed or at least continued after Mrs. Gray left ANet, the list could have a couple of other controversial topics cleared which are heavily discussed over and over:

• ArcDPS: We do have Mr. Cleary's quotes scattered on these boards, Reddit and the old forums. There is no official summary of the situation, just a ton of puzzle-pieces. In addition Mr. Cleary is no longer part of ANet, so it would be questionable if his quotes are still valid. They could have added an article about this in the Third Party Programs thread or create a separate one. Those topics just pop up over and over, because there is nothing we can rely on. Just two sides smashing their heads against each others.
• Black Market trading: There is no official statement about this. The fact that this secret sub-community uses Mystic Coins, a designed rare crafting material, as phantom-currency to trade stuff off the market is delicate enough. The topics pop up frequently.
• Exploit Abuse: When a player finds an exploit that can be used to make profit, they claim ownership of that exploit. They make videos, offer teachings in LFG for gold, spread the exploits to a wide audience of players. This is the current situation for several years now. Technically it is exploit abuse, which is equal to cheating. There is no official statement, so parts of the community assume "if it was not fixed yet, I am free to use it whenever I want."
• Target Blocking: Which occurs on the forums once every month at least. Those players who enjoy dropping boxes of Fun and other objects at locations with NPCs, for the purpose of just annoying other players. Is it allowed? Is it legal? We do not know. If it was not prohibited officially, with a warning about certain sanctions if you get caught bloody-handed, this would be less of a problem.
• Wintrading... ect.

You get the idea. If those important topics were addressed separately in that sub-section of the forums, there was a lot less meaning to interpret. We could focus on the more important topics instead of engaging in the same repetitive discussions over and over - which lead to no result at all.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You can find Gaile Gray's stance on 'Boxes of Fun' and other items dropped in these or the archived forums.ArcDPS and other 3rd-party programs are covered in the Knowledge Base.It's Grey Market Trading, and I believe she, or another Dev posted about that, as well.Exploits are covered in the Knowledge Base.

Regardless and unfortunately, few peruse the 'Libraries' or the sub-forum, 'Guild Wars 2 and Forum Policies'.Though, any of the Devs could add posts/thread, as some have to the Libraries.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

• ArcDPS: We do have Mr. Cleary's quotes scattered on these boards, Reddit and the old forums. There is no official summary of the situation, just a ton of puzzle-pieces. In addition Mr. Cleary is no longer part of ANet, so it would be questionable if his quotes are still valid. They could have added an article about this in the Third Party Programs thread or create a separate one. Those topics just pop up over and over, because there is nothing we can rely on. Just two sides smashing their heads against each others.Actually, we can rely on past statements, and delta is in constant communication with Anet still, so there's no change to this. The threads appear because some people want dps meters to not be allowed, and refuse to believe it's otherwise.

• Black Market trading: There is no official statement about this. The fact that this secret sub-community uses Mystic Coins, a designed rare crafting material, as phantom-currency to trade stuff off the market is delicate enough. The topics pop up frequently.What you speak of is just off-TP trading. Nothing black about it. It's completely legit. It just receives no protection normal TP has, so even if you get scammed, you can at best try to have the scammer actioned, but won't get your stuff back.

Black market is anything where real cash is involved, and it's also a clear case - it's not allowed.

The stuff that is in gray (unclarified) area are only very specific cases of favour trading between GW1 and GW2. Ther are people that, for example, sell/buy titles/minis etc in gw1 in exchange for gold (or other favours) in gw2 (for the hall of monuments achieves). Technically it probably should not be allowed (as gw1 and gw2 are considered to be separate games, even if both are under Anet), but Anet used to close their eyes on this, and never clarified the situation (even though it has been asked about more than once)

• Exploit Abuse: When a player finds an exploit that can be used to make profit, they claim ownership of that exploit. They make videos, offer teachings in LFG for gold, spread the exploits to a wide audience of players. This is the current situation for several years now. Technically it is exploit abuse, which is equal to cheating. There is no official statement, so parts of the community assume "if it was not fixed yet, I am free to use it whenever I want."In the past, people have been banned for exploit abuse. The fact that Anet is far less willing to do so nowadays does not mean the official policy has changed. It just became somewhat less effective.

• Target Blocking: Which occurs on the forums once every month at least. Those players who enjoy dropping boxes of Fun and other objects at locations with NPCs, for the purpose of just annoying other players. Is it allowed? Is it legal? We do not know. If it was not prohibited officially, with a warning about certain sanctions if you get caught bloody-handed, this would be less of a problem.That's the one point from that list that has really never been addressed in any form.

• WintradingIs a match manipulation, so, strictly forbidden. Again, Anet not being very effective at dealing with such cases does not change the official policy.

[Zushada.6108]

I won't deny, I appreciated her input and perspective a lot. And yes, I do miss her. Change stinks and I have accepted it but one of the key things I have missed is the actual, formal feedback threads for the LW episodes. How the mods filter through all these threads post release is beyond me. However, like I said, times change and we must all keep moving on and encouraging more thoughtful interaction from the Anet team. I'd rather see them here than on Reddit all the time.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Zushada.6108 said:I won't deny, I appreciated her input and perspective a lot.

I miss her kind demeanour and patience with us. :) And I miss the fact that we would get answers a lot sooner whenever she received a heads-up on an issue.

When she returned to GW after she had left before GW2 was even released, I was really happy to see her again. Oh well...

[DzT.8127]

I thought it was a item ingame when I read it, not a person, lol.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

No thanks. I'd rather not be told I'm creating a "negative atmosphere" by saying if I don't like something about the game, and then be told to keep my negative opinion to myself.