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The Icebrood Saga: Champions - [Merged]


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@otto.5684 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Just because a balance patch doesn't touch on what one might think is important doesn't mean that a balance patch was not released.

There were no PvE changes last patch. We are about 4 months since the last patch for PvE. Is the balance team on 6 month vacation?

No. It's a similar case again. Just because they aren't doing what you want doesn't mean they aren't doing anything at all.

It's very likely the case they are working on elite specs and there's no point needlessly accruing technical debt for the sake of change.

There's also potential to see a patch with changes that "don't make sense"/"dart board" before the expansion like we did with both HoT and PoF, but once it's out everything makes a lot more sense.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Just because a balance patch doesn't touch on what one might think is important doesn't mean that a balance patch was not released.

There were no PvE changes last patch. We are about 4 months since the last patch for PvE. Is the balance team on 6 month vacation?

No. It's a similar case again. Just because they aren't doing what you want doesn't mean they aren't doing anything at all.

It's very likely the case they are working on elite specs and there's no point needlessly accruing technical debt for the sake of change.

There's also potential to see a patch with changes that "don't make sense"/"dart board" before the expansion like we did with both HoT and PoF, but once it's out everything makes a lot more sense.

This is assuming that the balance is currently perfect, which it is not. It is not bad, but assuming there does need to be changes is flat out false.

A balance Patch every 3 month is now demanding? And of course Anet does not have to do what I( or any other player want. But I also do not have have to buy gems for money or buy the expansion. It is a give and take relationship. Since PoF release, I decided l that beside expansion base price, Anet does not deserve my money, because their level of effort to maintain the game and produce high quality content is mediocre.

Of course this is an opinion, and opinions will vary. But it is not a far stretch to say that satisfaction in Anet performance has dropped in the last 2 years, across the player base. It is not abysmal, but also not good. Just... mediocre.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"archmagus.7249" said:They've put out a road map for all the way out to mid-summer for content. They haven't even mentioned a balance patch, and we're well over due for one, with the last one being July 7th (
).

Because there isn't one, and wont be anything new till the expansion. PvP and WvW are in maintenance mode, they dont care about us and want this game to be single-player open world PvE content with the occasional world boss. Note that the word "Soloable" is in the road-map quite a bit.

Its said once in that text blurb.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-icebrood-saga-champions/

Each chapter of The Icebrood Saga: Champions introduces new Dragon Response Missions, which can be tackled solo or in a group of up to five players.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"archmagus.7249" said:They've put out a road map for all the way out to mid-summer for content. They haven't even mentioned a balance patch, and we're well over due for one, with the last one being July 7th (
).

Because there isn't one, and wont be anything new till the expansion. PvP and WvW are in maintenance mode, they dont care about us and want this game to be single-player open world PvE content with the occasional world boss. Note that the word "Soloable" is in the road-map quite a bit.

And somehow it's been like this for 5 years and people still play it.

Oh wait, because there are a bunch of changes over the years.

Of course open/living world content is going to be soloable, if you try to take that as an indicator the game is dying or that they are catering to certain people, no. Just more of the same.

The game is dying, lol. But I mean sure objectivity is objectivity; Deed in my eyes and a meme of a game unworthy of its success because it "tried" to be different and then returned to the mold in which it came. But then I mean... some of the games like fallout 76 have technically succeeded… so perhaps its an issue of taste, preference and the acceptance of mediocre games that has led us to where the gaming industry can be as lazy as it is.

All of the changes, you reference? What the ones at HoT? Since then it hasn't changed besides the warclaw.... and well that got nerfed into oblivion. Maps are abandoned, no one plays an MMO to play single player when TONS of single player story driven games exist that put this one to shame. But Different strokes for different folks I Guess~

No one plays? No one? Wonder what all those other players I see each day in any map I visit are doing here.

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I will not hit on stuff that has been mentioned over and over already. Instead let us take a look on the other things ...

The Icebrood Saga‘s conclusion will be felt throughout Tyria—even across the seas.

Across the seas means Elona? The gateway south of Fields of Ruin is still shut and may not be used ever at all. So Elona is still only reachable across the seas. This sounds a little unlikely, because the LW is normally tied to a special territory. During LW3 and LW4 we did not set a foot back into the Heart of Maguuma at all. So why change this in Icebrood Saga: Champions (IBSC)? The Ring of Fire is also across the sea, but I doubt they would link active LW story to an old and abandoned story-chapter of a former living world season.

Replayable Dragon Response Missions

Dragon minion incursions have thrown once-peaceful lands into chaos, and there’s no predicting where the next attack will erupt.

Each chapter of The Icebrood Saga: Champions introduces new Dragon Response Missions, which can be tackled solo or in a group of up to five players. In these encounters, you’ll head to invasion points to shore up defenses and protect the area from rampaging dragon minions. Work together with allied reinforcements to neutralize powerful dragon champions—the ultimate threat at the heart of the assaults.

"there is no predicting where the next attack will erupt"/doubtIf it is a 'random' event like the portal-invasions of Scarlet and Joko, there will be a timer-schedule in no time. Random spawn-times are a fun concept, but in this game, there always is a rule and a schedule. I would even go further and assume a prediction-device as we had it for the Ley Anomaly, either accessible via NPC interaction or Gemstore (similar to the Worldboss portal device).

If that content is instanced, what "can be tackled solo or in a group of up to five players" implies, they may be accessible via EoTN. If that is the case, they may have to rework the interface of the Scrying Pool. Or they use another NPC, probably an Asura Gate which operates similar to the Fractal Portal in Lion's Arch (just without a lobby).

Befriending Allied Factions

Tyria is full of people with different loyalties and priorities, but everyone is at risk from an enemy driven only by destruction. When dragon minion attacks multiply, you’ll find more envoys making their way to the Eye of the North.

During global faction mobilization events, players can pitch in to train, rally, and build trust with factions both familiar and unlikely. You’ll be rewarded for your efforts, and your allies will begin randomly appearing in Dragon Response Missions to lend their special strengths to the fight.

"global faction mobilization events"Sounds like the open-world events we know from other Living World. We might figure out a schedule for those as well. I wonder how they intend to realize "your allies will begin randomly appearing in Dragon Response Missions." Maybe we get a global-progression system, similar to the community-events. One progress bar/step for each faction. Once the community filled it, that faction will appear in certain Dragon Response Missions (suitable to the region) as allies.

Another option would be to make them account-bound, which would be a bit weird to make. If a character in your party has a full affection bar to a certain faction, they will spawn one additional member of that faction into the zone. But this would be a mess, buggy and probably even cause crashes. I hope this will not be the case.

Achievements, Masteries, and Rewards

As you play The Icebrood Saga: Champions, unlock the Dragon Slayer Mastery track to boost your abilities in Dragon Response Missions and purchase weapon recipes and more from friendly faction vendors. Complete achievements and collections to earn valuable materials, Mastery points, and unique rewards.

Dragon Slayer Mastery = Dragon response Missions and purchase recipes from faction vendors.This goes towards the "lore" masteries we know from HoT? Improving the affection/trust, granting access to special vendors. Maybe we can also unlock special features/attacks/buffs during the instanced encounters in the instances via the Mastery.

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@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Across the seas means Elona? The gateway south of Fields of Ruin is still shut and may not be used ever at all. So Elona is still only reachable across the seas. This sounds a little unlikely, because the LW is normally tied to a special territory. During LW3 and LW4 we did not set a foot back into the Heart of Maguuma at all. So why change this in Icebrood Saga: Champions (IBSC)? The Ring of Fire is also across the sea, but I doubt they would link active LW story to an old and abandoned story-chapter of a former living world season.No, it means Cantha, since that is where we are going after Icebrood Saga is over. Elona is not across the sea, its connected by land.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@"archmagus.7249" said:They've put out a road map for all the way out to mid-summer for content. They haven't even mentioned a balance patch, and we're well over due for one, with the last one being July 7th (
).

Because there isn't one, and wont be anything new till the expansion. PvP and WvW are in maintenance mode, they dont care about us and want this game to be single-player open world PvE content with the occasional world boss. Note that the word "Soloable" is in the road-map quite a bit.

And somehow it's been like this for 5 years and people still play it.

Oh wait, because there are a bunch of changes over the years.

Of course open/living world content is going to be soloable, if you try to take that as an indicator the game is dying or that they are catering to certain people, no. Just more of the same.

The game is dying, lol. But I mean sure objectivity is objectivity; Deed in my eyes and a meme of a game unworthy of its success because it "tried" to be different and then returned to the mold in which it came. But then I mean... some of the games like fallout 76 have technically succeeded… so perhaps its an issue of taste, preference and the acceptance of mediocre games that has led us to where the gaming industry can be as lazy as it is.

All of the changes, you reference? What the ones at HoT? Since then it hasn't changed besides the warclaw.... and well that got nerfed into oblivion. Maps are abandoned, no one plays an MMO to play single player when TONS of single player story driven games exist that put this one to shame. But Different strokes for different folks I Guess~

No one plays? No one? Wonder what all those other players I see each day in any map I visit are doing here.

We're all actually bots who have broken our programming and are running amok!

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I've said it once and I'll say it again there is no known logical correlation between creating Strike Missions and them magically creating motivation to try Raids. That's like saying "because I tried this new coffee this morning I might decide to call my parents today...." A better use of resources would have been to make the Raids tierd diffulty like fractals: T1 "the famed storymode", Tier2 "Storymode+", Tier3 "Normal raid difficulty", Tier4 "challenge mode." HOW and WHY this has been prevented is beyond me but makes sense since they still don't have a Game Director since Mike Z left a year ago with no announcement or replacement.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"NotTooFoolish.7412" said:No raids, no strikes...

I hope they are split up for a good reason. Let's see what we'll get...Strikes have never been mentioned in the roadmaps.

Might be the case, never been focused on strikes so much... they just don't serve their intended purpose (bringing people to raids). They are a bit of extra loot, so I do them from time to time. You know what does bring people to raids? Training guilds sharing their experience (not the ones starting static groups from 50+ Dhuum kp).

We could use another raid wing though, we are starting to run out of content to play... there's always a grind towards legendaries or some cool infusions, that's not challenging and fun. Bringing different difficulty levels to choose from, might bring more ppl to raids than Strikes ever could (it's like adding a new pve map, hoping that more ppl start playing wvw... yes I'm referring to the newest addition, they are nothing alike). Not sure if tiered system could work here like it does for fractals (there the rewards are similar, some items are just a bit more rare on lower tiers), but e.g. story instance and regular one with CM available similar to Dungeon could help a bit.

Besides not all raid encounters are "Largos wrecking a whole party with one hit" or "Dhuum throwing you to the other side of the room if you stand at an awkward angle"... There are some pretty easy ones to start with...

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@"NotTooFoolish.7412" said:(it's like adding a new pve map, hoping that more ppl start playing wvw... yes I'm referring to the newest addition, they are nothing alike).

I have no idea if the intention behind the south map of Drizzlewood Coast was to attract players to wvw, but I do think that it did succeed in bringing a few of the enjoyable dynamics from wvw to pve, at least to some extent.

Separate from that, one of the things I liked about south Drizzlewood was that there were a lot of NPCs that were similar to players in their abilities (type of attacks/skills not level of ability). I think it would be great if more NPCs were more like player characters, and with improved AI rather than just having more HP, stronger attacks, and more complicated mechanics. If the "elite" npcs switched to other attacks when their seige weapon gets destroyed, if they try to run away when they are losing, stuff like that. In some cases even just raising the frequency of their skill uses would make them more challenging, many of them only attack every few seconds. I suspect that to a great extent you could adjust the level of the npc purely with their speed. I read somewhere on the forums that when HoT first launched it had more intelligent enemies, but they had to scale them down because they were "too difficult" for many players. If that's true it's a shame they can't put them back in somewhere that won't interfere with players who just want to complete the story or get their hero points.

I didn't enjoy the north side of the Drizzlewood map as much, it seemed like just mindless zerging. I wish the meta in the south would continue to some extent while north was going on.

Besides not all raid encounters are "Largos wrecking a whole party with one hit" or "Dhuum throwing you to the other side of the room if you stand at an awkward angle"... There are some pretty easy ones to start with...

Is there a list somewhere that ranks the raids in approximate order of difficulty?

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@blp.3489 said:I have no idea if the intention behind the south map of Drizzlewood Coast was to attract players to wvw, but I do think that it did succeed in bringing a few of the enjoyable dynamics from wvw to pve, at least to some extent.

Don't get me wrong. I like the map bringing something a bit different to PvE. It's also good in keeping people doing meta for a bit longer -> best rewards at the end of each of the 2 parts. Once ppl get stuck in that chain they usually finish the map =)

@blp.3489 said:Is there a list somewhere that ranks the raids in approximate order of difficulty?

Ppl shared some lists in the old forums. I'd say the following should be fine for beginners: Escort, MO, Cairn, Samarog, Gorseval, VG. Those have quite simple mechanics and shouldn't be much of an issue when ran with pugs. That would be W1-W4.

From the new wings (W5-W7) CA, Adina, River and Statues would be the easiest. I wouldn't recommend them as a start point...

Some of the bosses need very specific roles to be filled ;)

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@"blp.3489" said:Is there a list somewhere that ranks the raids in approximate order of difficulty?Quite a lot, i believe. The problem is that they all are different. And i'm not talking about small differences there - while a few of the bosses can be relatively safely placed on one or the other edge of the chart (Specifically i doubt there's a lot of disagreement about Dhuum, Cairn and Mursat Overseeer), everything else is highly subjective, and the relative "difficulty level" can significantly vary from group to group depending on stuff like experience, team setup, overall skill, and personal strengths/weaknesses.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"blp.3489" said:Is there a list somewhere that ranks the raids in approximate order of difficulty?Quite a lot, i believe. The problem is that they all are different. And i'm not talking about small differences there - while a few of the bosses can be relatively safely placed on one or the other edge of the chart (Specifically i doubt there's a lot of disagreement about Dhuum, Cairn and Mursat Overseeer), everything else is highly subjective, and the relative "difficulty level" can significantly vary from group to group depending on stuff like experience, team setup, overall skill, and personal strengths/weaknesses.

I wish they were only 5 people instead of 10. 10 can be difficult to get cohesion in a group, and also to get people to stay. This is one thing that makes me interested in the 5 man missions.

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It is written on the roadmap. BUT please don't forget to keep updating the super adventure box. Really, would really enjoy at least a zone or two this year, even if the world isn't complete. Also think to bring back keto's lab and the genie story arc, it hadn't been available since 2014.

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Also there is a thing that bother me A LOT: Rata novus has been explored in HoT, one of the island commander against the mouth of mordremoth was a rata novan golem and were major allies having a line with their names. Draconis Mons have them to secure vaults, but no point for them staying here: even several of them have been kidnapped and brought to invariant enclave in sandswept after the inquest stole any artifact or data from zinn vault.But the most important thing, the research lab of rata novus was referencing researchs about destroyers, even having samples in vials. That research lab have been visited by ALL the councilors of rata sum even Phlunt. But SOMEHOW no news since. I mean nobody bringing back to rata sum datas and those lost technologies? Why no rata novan golems walking around rata sum? No fluorite data crystals brought back? THIS IS A BIG STORY PLOT HOLE, obvious especially now, after you decided to bring back Primordius. When I see those "veterran classic golems" in eye of the north but not in rata sum: EXPLAIN, cause mechanist ninn with them and he was in rata sum.Councillors know about the data and bringing golems in rata sum for examination? After all this time, no way they haven't discovered taimi lab (big dragon face drawn on the door) nor that the monitors of the main room speaking of destroyers (they are even showing a destroyer scheme with their texture). Even the worst skritt would figure by looking at the ceilling that there is another room in the back of the main one. Last record i think is PoF where you hear phlunt if you try to call in the lab. And more recently, you can see the rata novans golems helping during awakened invasions: Do they spawn from nowhere? Really?

PS / EDIT: In the second part, there is a shot in Arcan council with Taimi - Gorrik - Phlunt - Zudo.And it tickle me, Yahk, surely know that Gorrik is a defector for the Inquest, they have recording. And so I kinda expect a clash between councillor Yahk and Gorrik, or even a death sentence mence or punishments. Seeing that in personnal story, they menaced the commander (the snaff savant) of blowing up the whole lab to recover an artifact...

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ok ok ok here's my only question. Is that all for this chapter? Totally cool if it is, but it feels like something should come after the bonus event. I'm mostly just confused because the trailer made it seem that we would at least have the Crystal Bloom AND the Ebon Vanguard this chapter, and there's an achievement for buying Ebon Vanguard support boxes. I don't know if that means that content is for the next update and just slipped through the cracks, or if that's part of this update but coming later.

I'm genuinely happy with the content already, it's really really good! i just am a little bit confused because I thought something else was coming after the countdown but it doesn't look like that's the case.

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