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Champions Chapter 1: Truce thoughts/observations


Sajuuk Khar.1509

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@Yasai.3549 said:

Everytime I feel like, hey maybe we are making progress with Braham as a character, and that his growth arc is happening, he regresses back into a baby.

Anet. Stop this. Braham doesn't have to express his opinions about everything by whining like a child. He's no longer one.Takes like 4 different parties to tell Braham to focus on the threat at hand for him to kitten about Jormag for 2 steps of the quest and HE BACK AT IT.

I share his reaction though, I too really distrust Jormag, like, really.

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It may be because I've been a Norn main for my entire time as a GW2 player, but I'm on Braham's side too. Taimi was 1000% out of line to lecture him the way she did in the Metrica province and I wish I could have taken his side. We just watched Jormag nearly destroy the Charr, AND the Norn have been chased from their ancestral homeland by him the same as Primordus chased out the Asura. Just because the places we fled too still have some snow doesn't make it magically better, and it was insulting for Taimi to say so.

This whole "Alliance" with the Frost Legion is also not sitting right with me. Ryland has committed horrible crimes against me and mine. Jormag definitely has. And now we got the whole "for the greater good we have to cooperate" stuff, and I dont like it. It's not a good story beat. I'm just as dead whether the dragon who killed me wielded ice or fire. One of the reasons I quit WoW is because I got tired of being told to play nice with the Horde as they burned down the major cities of my faction one by one. If the next chapter dont let us fight Jormag again and make Taimi eat a HUGE slice of humble pie for negging Braham about this, I might have to take another break from the game.

TLDR: Braham was right, the lore for this chapter is shaky at best, I'm disappointed.

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@"Pax.3548" said:

I share his reaction though, I too really distrust Jormag, like, really.

Except it doesn't excuse his terrible behavior. (or terrible writing)

Maybe it's just me but it was pissing me to the high heavens when yu fight the final boss of the Metrica Instance and he freaking chirps in randomly about "I don't like this alliance"

Hello? Focus on big destroyer FIRST ?

Taimi was literally just arguing back to Braham so he would zip it and focus on the fight THE ENTIRE TIME.Like gosh, Taimi is insufferable but Braham whining the entire way from the gate to the Destroyer boss was straight up the worst filler dialouge no one had to write.

And then the instance ends with "huh, idk man, I can like, tremor sense Destroyers"

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I suspect that Jormag is using the chaos caused by her twin brother Primordius to persuade people to her side.

It is a opportunity that has put many people in a vulnerable position since this is the first time two Elder dragons are on a rampage.

With Primordius being the more pure chaos destruction type, this has made people scared because he is more muhahaha destroy everything while Jormag is giving people the feeling of comfort due to her offers and words of "reason".

In the end, I don't trust Jormag because it has been made it quite clear from past history with Jormag's actions that she is all about offering things to make people feel they should become corrupted by her willingly to feel comfort, wanted, and protected. This situation with Primordius is just the perfect opportunity for her to get more people into trusting and accepting her corruption.

However, this situation is also a bad sign that we may see former allies become corrupted by Jormag and maybe worse they become our enemies if the moment when we have to fight Jormag happens. Especially Taimi since she is far more obsessed with defeating Primordius and currently has a strong belief Jormag can be a reasonable Elder Dragon due to all the promises she has been giving the Asura.

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@Pax.3548 said:

Everytime I feel like, hey maybe we are making progress with Braham as a character, and that his growth arc is happening, he regresses back into a baby.

Anet. Stop this. Braham doesn't have to express his opinions about everything by whining like a child. He's no longer one.Takes like 4 different parties to tell Braham to focus on the threat at hand for him to kitten about Jormag for 2 steps of the quest and HE BACK AT IT.

I share his reaction though, I too really distrust Jormag, like, really.

Lowkey when Jormag and Waaaaaaaaham were talking I was like YES a spirits of the wild lore moment and then!!!!! Nothing. We have been WAITING for this moment. You enslave my spirits of the wild, ambush us and you don't like OUR attitude?!

._.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

Everytime I feel like, hey maybe we are making progress with Braham as a character, and that his growth arc is happening, he regresses back into a baby.

Anet. Stop this. Braham doesn't have to express his opinions about everything by whining like a child. He's no longer one.Takes like 4 different parties to tell Braham to focus on the threat at hand for him to kitten about Jormag for 2 steps of the quest and HE BACK AT IT.

Don't worry. He'll probably be...fired. Hahaha!

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@"HotDelirium.7984" said:

Lowkey when Jormag and Waaaaaaaaham were talking I was like YES a spirits of the wild lore moment and then!!!!! Nothing. We have been WAITING for this moment. You enslave my spirits of the wild, ambush us and you don't like OUR attitude?!

._.

Man the writing for this entire season is disappointing.Whoever is responsible for writing dialougues need to be fired.

80% of the Commander's interaction with every plot important character aside from people we know we can trust is "Hehehehe yu know so little"So er, yu guys gonna tell us?

Also, Jormag.For someone who is all about deception and persuasion, they are awfully bad at it.Their shtick is to persuade and seduce and plant ideas, but they way they are written for the entire season is like :"ehehehehe listen to me, my plan good, uh er what's my proof and goal or any bait to lure us in? Er..... secrets ehehehehe. Also Aurene, ehehehehe babby dragon, yu know so little."

Oh how far Gw2 writing has devolved.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@"HotDelirium.7984" said:

Lowkey when Jormag and Waaaaaaaaham were talking I was like YES a spirits of the wild lore moment and then!!!!! Nothing. We have been WAITING for this moment. You enslave my spirits of the wild, ambush us and you don't like OUR attitude?!

._.

Man the writing for this entire season is disappointing.Whoever is responsible for writing dialougues need to be fired.

80% of the Commander's interaction with every plot important character aside from people we know we can trust is "Hehehehe yu know so little"So er, yu guys gonna tell us?

Also, Jormag.For someone who is all about deception and persuasion, they are awfully bad at it.Their shtick is to persuade and seduce and plant ideas, but they way they are written for the entire season is like :"ehehehehe listen to me, my plan good, uh er what's my proof and goal or any bait to lure us in? Er..... secrets ehehehehe. Also Aurene, ehehehehe babby dragon, yu know so little."

Oh how far Gw2 writing has devolved.

This could have been a shinning moment about building mental resilience. Give us even a few whole community juicy votes like: do you believe Jormag or fight against her? Give that power to the players- ALLOW us to literally be influenced by Jormag...or not. Kinda meta but this game needs big moments like this. Since we defeated Drakkar the whispers are no more? K but the intention is still there isn't it? (or not who knows right?) and now Primordus is here and were just supposed to ignore Jormag. Nah fam. Its a red herring and our Commander is being toopid again. Even Joko was like ":/ really... you're being dumb killing Elder Dragons..."

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@"HotDelirium.7984" said:Nah fam. Its a red herring and our Commander is being toopid again. Even Joko was like ":/ really... you're being dumb killing Elder Dragons..."

Our entire existence since PoF began was people telling us where to go, and what to fight.I guess we really are stupid.

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@Pax.3548 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:

Everytime I feel like, hey maybe we are making progress with Braham as a character, and that his growth arc is happening, he regresses back into a baby.

Anet. Stop this. Braham doesn't have to express his opinions about everything by whining like a child. He's no longer one.Takes like 4 different parties to tell Braham to focus on the threat at hand for him to kitten about Jormag for 2 steps of the quest and HE BACK AT IT.

I share his reaction though, I too really distrust Jormag, like, really.

I mostly agree with Braham, too.Taimi actively sharing data/findings with Ryland and Jormag with the intention to kill Primordus is a bad idea. I do understand the Arcane Council crafting an alliance due to research just like how the inquest are tolerated and represented in the council. But Taimi should know better.

The one thing I disagree with Braham is about calling Jormag a liar. And that disagreement is only due to one of Tom Abernathy tweets (Edit: source ) some time ago where he stated that Jormag doesn‘t lie (which our character obviously doesn‘t know).

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Braham is entirely correct and the Asura are being stupid.

Also I really hope they don't get rid of the whole balance thing. Kind of takes away the oomph from killing Balthazar and given how stupid that story already was, making it even MORE pointless is just going to be another gut punch to the God narrative.

It needs to be cleared up pretty quickly or people need to at least QUESTION what will happen if they kill Primordus given the knowledge of what will happen to Tyria if too many Elder Dragons die.

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@"Genesis.8572" said:This entire season has killed a LOT of my enthusiasm for this game. The map mechanics are not particularly fun, a lot of repetitive grind, and neither has the lore direction been particularly great.

for me the error started when taking the Gods out of the scene in POF with this weird "we prefer to run away" thing. Elder Dragons is by far a very uniteresting villains.

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I wonder if them bringing up the Pale Tree again is a red herring. Or she, like the other dragon champions, is about to have a larger role to play.

  • Do any of Zhaitan's champion still live as unchained?
  • Is Kuunavang supposed to be a DSS champion?

We may be in a position where the 6 all have active champions and armies (even if they themselves are not alive).Unchained vs SylvariBubbles vs AurenePrimordus vs Jormag

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@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:So the allies we got in this release are

  • Crystal Bloom: Primary
  • Seraph and Watchknights in Brisban
  • Asura and Golems in Metrica
  • Norn shamans in Gendarran

The allies are randomized. I got Crystal Bloom in Brisban and Metrica, rather than seraph or asura. I had also gotten both Seraph and norn in Gendarran. This being out of 2 Gendarran runs, and 1 Metrica/Brisban runs.

Other notes

  • Jhavi is still leading the Vigil, since Laranthir hasn't returned from the Grove.
  • We got confirmation that the Pale Tree is better, but still healing from the attack by Mordremoth.
  • The Asuran Counsel has accepted Jormag/Ryland's help.
  • Braham has gained some ability to feel where the larger destroyers are going.
  • Braham and Taimi have a fight over allying with Jormag.
  • Aurene isn't taking an active role in the fighting, and The Commander wishes she would.
  • Jormag says the "balance" is made up, and not real.
  • The group leading the war effort consists of Logan, Crecia, Phlunt, Sigast, and a sylvari whose name i forgot right now

Also bulletpoint notes of worth:

  • Destroyers are unaffected by water.
  • Primordus is theorized to have become capable of filtering Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic better, resulting in stronger but pure-fire destroyers.
  • Seismic activities have gotten deeper than ever before.
  • Aife is that sylvari btw.

@Yasai.3549 said:Everytime I feel like, hey maybe we are making progress with Braham as a character, and that his growth arc is happening, he regresses back into a baby.

Anet. Stop this. Braham doesn't have to express his opinions about everything by whining like a child. He's no longer one.Takes like 4 different parties to tell Braham to focus on the threat at hand for him to kitten about Jormag for 2 steps of the quest and HE BACK AT IT.

How has Braham regressed by being far more realistic and sensible about Jormag's actions and plans than Taimi? Or being worried that there is a prophecy told by his personal deity-like figure telling him point blank "either you succeed or you will die".

Braham is acting very realistic and mature for his position. Jormag IS the threat at hand.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"Pax.3548" said:

I share his reaction though, I too really distrust Jormag, like, really.

Except it doesn't excuse his terrible behavior. (or terrible writing)

Maybe it's just me but it was pissing me to the high heavens when yu fight the final boss of the Metrica Instance and he freaking chirps in randomly about "I don't like this alliance"

Hello? Focus on big destroyer
FIRST
?

Taimi was literally just arguing back to Braham so he would zip it and focus on the fight THE ENTIRE TIME.Like gosh, Taimi is insufferable but Braham whining the entire way from the gate to the Destroyer boss was straight up the worst filler dialouge no one had to write.

And then the instance ends with "huh, idk man, I can like, tremor sense Destroyers"

People can argue while fighting. This is actually how 80% of video game dialogue occurs.

And Braham isn't whining. He's literally saying "hey, you know that trusting the Elder Dragon of persuasion, who's 150 years of history is literally tricking people into wanting to work with it before corrupting them, is a very bad idea, RIGHT!?" And responding to comments of "but my racial history" with "but my racial and personal history too!"

Taimi is the one being childish and unreasonable here. And I suspect that Jormag may have been a bit... persuasive to cause that. The Arcane Council - I can see them agreeing without any need of whispers. But Taimi? She should be smarter than that.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:I wonder if them bringing up the Pale Tree again is a red herring.

It's most likely because people keep complaining we never hear anything about the Pale Tree, so this was about the only way they could squeeze some info in

That is possible. We did have Ryland say only he, Caithe, and the Commander were champions. And even the wiki doesn't acknowledge the Pale Tree as technically being one. Maybe that storyline will just die out.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Also bulletpoint notes of worth:

  • Destroyers are unaffected by water.
  • Primordus is theorized to have become capable of filtering Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic better, resulting in stronger but pure-fire destroyers.

Not sure if this is just to balance the encounters. But none of the destroyers are immune to fire.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:I wonder if them bringing up the Pale Tree again is a red herring.

It's most likely because people keep complaining we never hear anything about the Pale Tree, so this was about the only way they could squeeze some info in

That is possible. We did have Ryland say only he, Caithe, and the Commander were champions. And even the wiki doesn't acknowledge the Pale Tree as technically being one. Maybe that storyline will just die out.

I gotta nitpick here but the Pale Tree isn't like Ryland, Caithe, and the Commander because her relationship to Mordremoth is largely characterized by being a sapling of Mordremoth. Ryland, Caithe, and the Commander are champions of their respective elder dragon but were not born of the elder dragon in any way and instead were willingly adopted as champions.

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@"Jack Swiftclaw.9076" said:Roland and Caithe: this interaction brought up the idea of Champions. What it means means for us and them to be a Champion of a dragon. I think they these interactions we are seeing that the dragon that has a mortal champion is more powerful. I don't think we are done yet understanding who we are to Aurene.

This brings up something that I've wondered for a while...why did Aurene give Caithe her power and not us? It doesn't make sense considering the deep bond we have. Unless she couldn't or wouldn't for a reason. Considering she can see into the future, it's possible that she foresaw something that could only be done if we were not given her powers directly like Caithe.

Well, that, or...the Commander is already the champion of the EDs "mother", which leads to a theory that Tyria itself is an ED. Though that theory could hold water as to why "the balance" doesn't exist. It may just be that too much energy going off would wake "mother" and just lead to destruction from her moving around, leading to the EDs mere existence being to regulate the magical energy so she doesn't wake up. Which would also explain why the Human Gods left, it would be something that would make their mere presence there a serious threat to everything that exists on Tyria.

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@DaFishBob.6518 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:I wonder if them bringing up the Pale Tree again is a red herring.

It's most likely because people keep complaining we never hear anything about the Pale Tree, so this was about the only way they could squeeze some info in

That is possible. We did have Ryland say only he, Caithe, and the Commander were champions. And even the wiki doesn't acknowledge the Pale Tree as technically being one. Maybe that storyline will just die out.

I gotta nitpick here but the Pale Tree isn't like Ryland, Caithe, and the Commander because her relationship to Mordremoth is largely characterized by being a sapling of Mordremoth. Ryland, Caithe, and the Commander are champions of their respective elder dragon but were not born of the elder dragon in any way and instead were willingly adopted as champions.

Well, it depends on how you're defining champion.

Ryland, Caithe, and the Commander are unique to dragon champions ins that they have free will and are bonded, which makes them "champions" but not "dragon champions" as we've known. Meanwhile Glint and the Pale Tree are dragon champions, and they were cleansed after corruption, rather than simply bonded.

It's an annoying thing caused by ANet using the same word to mean many things.

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@RyuDragnier.9476 said:

@"Jack Swiftclaw.9076" said:Roland and Caithe: this interaction brought up the idea of Champions. What it means means for us and them to be a Champion of a dragon. I think they these interactions we are seeing that the dragon that has a mortal champion is more powerful. I don't think we are done yet understanding who we are to Aurene.

This brings up something that I've wondered for a while...why did Aurene give Caithe her power and not us? It doesn't make sense considering the deep bond we have. Unless she couldn't or wouldn't for a reason. Considering she can see into the future, it's possible that she foresaw something that could only be done if we were not given her powers directly like Caithe.

Well, that, or...the Commander is already the champion of the EDs "mother", which leads to a theory that Tyria itself is an ED. Though that theory could hold water as to why "the balance" doesn't exist. It may just be that too much energy going off would wake "mother" and just lead to destruction from her moving around, leading to the EDs mere existence being to regulate the magical energy so she doesn't wake up. Which would also explain why the Human Gods left, it would be something that would make their mere presence there a serious threat to everything that exists on Tyria.

We are getting Aurene's Champion powers in the Mastery abilities being from Crystal Champion Mastery and the newly added Dragon Slayer Mastery

Though a different form of Champion abilites since these powers do not alter our appearance.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Jack Swiftclaw.9076" said:Roland and Caithe: this interaction brought up the idea of Champions. What it means means for us and them to be a Champion of a dragon. I think they these interactions we are seeing that the dragon that has a mortal champion is more powerful. I don't think we are done yet understanding who we are to Aurene.

This brings up something that I've wondered for a while...why did Aurene give Caithe her power and not us? It doesn't make sense considering the deep bond we have. Unless she couldn't or wouldn't for a reason. Considering she can see into the future, it's possible that she foresaw something that could only be done if we were not given her powers directly like Caithe.

Well, that, or...the Commander is already the champion of the EDs "mother", which leads to a theory that Tyria itself is an ED. Though that theory could hold water as to why "the balance" doesn't exist. It may just be that too much energy going off would wake "mother" and just lead to destruction from her moving around, leading to the EDs mere existence being to regulate the magical energy so she doesn't wake up. Which would also explain why the Human Gods left, it would be something that would make their mere presence there a serious threat to everything that exists on Tyria.

We are getting Aurene's Champion powers in the Mastery abilities being from Crystal Champion Mastery and the newly added Dragon Slayer Mastery

Though a different form of Champion abilites since these powers do not alter our appearance.I knew I was forgetting something. "Mother" still makes my mind race to possibilities to what it could be, and I have a tendency to jump to plausible yet easily shut down theories because I always forget a detail or two.
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