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Anet i hope theres a gameplan after EoD.


zealex.9410

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Its Self-evident that EoD as a concept only came to exist early on after Ibs was set up as a more ambitious lw season. Based on the announcement trailer bits and story bits that where introduced and now seemingly dropped in light of EoD comming 2021 its clear that the original scope and goals of ibs has changed sagnificantly (likely shrinking in scope).

I dont make this to tell you oh you should have done this or that, i just want to stress that really, the champions release started on the weak side (even for ibs release standards which have been smaller but faster to produce traditionally). The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

I Hope you take the time leading up to and after EoD and decide what the model for gw2 releases should be and stick to it. MMOs have traditionally had smaller lw releases inbetween expansions which happen on a schedule, others just had expacs that happen on a schedule and others just had smaller releases that happen often.

Whatever you pick stay with it and optimise it so the administration of new content doesnt suffer outside of problems that you cant control (covid) and the game can finaly stabilise again and grow as it should.

I would personally go with the safe model of having expacs with lw inbetween, others might have other opinions, but please, dont just decide on the fly what to do, instead pick a course of action and stick with it.

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@zealex.9410 said:The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

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@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@zealex.9410 said:The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

I just dont see for who the game is refreshing rn and who has really benefited from the way the game has progressed post pof. Most parts of the game see minimal to no changes and additions, when it class to class gameplay the last thing you think its thats refreshing.

They have innovated in the past while following a proven format, some of the best things about the game came from expansions (masteries, mounts) THE MMO thing to do and stuff like titles or achievements never required the game not have an update plan for content.

Hell one of the most set in stone mmos, ff14 has introduce big qol to the gerne with its visual options when it comes go clutter and combat in general. Wow has followed the format for years but that didnt stop them from doing things like the Mage tower in legion or Torghast in shadowlands.

Refreshing features and innovative changes dont require you to re-invent the wheel.

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@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@zealex.9410 said:The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

All this would be true if A-Net would ba a charity or something.In reality they are a very professional entertainment corporation and people who spend money on them have a right to expect that.

If we apply word by word what you wrote to a dentist or car mechanic, people would laugh at us.

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That's not really right at all, you can't really compare a game company to a dentist or mechanic. Anet's doing things differently than other companies. It's not like you NEED to follow a formula for games to work, just look at games like Undertale. It keeps track of stuff you do, altering their files as you play. Not with updates, but with the actions you take, such as killing Toriel and resetting because you felt guilty. And the game makes it KNOWN it kept track of that.

Just because ANet isn't doing one tried and true method for their LWs other than "Each episode is free if you play during it's launch" doesn't mean they don't have a plan. Sure, it might be weaker than others comparatively, but they're going to shake it up regardless. They've stated they are planning on doing more after EoD, and that EoD was not called EoD to mark the end of the game. If the DLC launches well and continues growth in the game, then it does. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. They could potentially change the way you think about combat and fighting with EoD, for better or worse. They're going to try different stuff no matter what.

On another note, people had really high expectations for this episode. It's understandable to feel it's weak. But, in my opinion, they gave really all that was advertised. Sure, they made the trailer look like your standard "AMAZING EPIC 10/10 PERFECT GAMEPLAY WITH ALL THESE CRAZY MOMENTS", but to say that should make the expectation higher than the trailer made it seem is wrong. Every game company paints their game, or new mode, or whatever, in a grandiose spotlight. Anet's finally started doing that with their advertising, because it just wasn't working for them otherwise. We got Dragon Response missions. We can gain more support with allies. We all thought it'd be a progress based thing like masteries, but honestly, I don't think that would be better than the global progress. It makes you feel more like a part of Dragon's Watch than singular commanders running around. We get a few new skins because they've been doing that. We'll be getting the Dwarves and other factions soon.

And hopefully, ANet finds a way to tie in this PvE factions/allies type stuff with PvP or WvW style factions stuff. Maybe EoD releases a factions type mode, and as a guild you can decide which faction to take support from, either getting different NPCs or boons to assist you during the fight.

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@zealex.9410 said:

Hell one of the most set in stone mmos, ff14 has introduce big qol to the gerne with its visual options when it comes go clutter and combat in general. Wow has followed the format for years but that didnt stop them from doing things like the Mage tower in legion or Torghast in shadowlands.Cannot compare GW2 to FF14 or WoW. They are entirely different business models.

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@Kurrilino.2706 said:

@zealex.9410 said:The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

All this would be true if A-Net would ba a charity or something.In reality they are a very professional entertainment corporation and people who spend money on them have a right to expect that.

If we apply word by word what you wrote to a dentist or car mechanic, people would laugh at us.

No, I would not mind applying this to a car mechanic or a dentist, if it means you get more then what you could get on any streetcorner, but more experimental. It is a choice you make to not go to the average joe, but to a game that operates with a more of a sandbox type of release system.

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@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@zealex.9410 said:The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

All that Chaos theory though, as we've seen usually delivers mixed results. Doing things on the back of a whim isn't always the most organized of professional business models. I do wonder if you were to give us a vote if we would pick the path more commonly treaded if it meant subscriptions, trinity gameplay, but also meant 25 more fractals, 10 more raid wings, 30 more legendaries, ongoing dungeons and 5 more expansions meaning 5 more elites per profession by now and nobody needing to be fired in 2019. I confess the latter seems appealing...

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@HotDelirium.7984 said:

@zealex.9410 said:The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

All that Chaos theory though, as we've seen usually delivers mixed results. Doing things on the back of a whim isn't always the most organized of professional business models. I do wonder if you were to give us a vote if we would pick the path more commonly treaded if it meant subscriptions, trinity gameplay, but also meant 25 more fractals, 10 more raid wings, 30 more legendaries, ongoing dungeons and 5 more expansions meaning 5 more elites per profession by now and nobody needing to be fired in 2019. I confess the latter seems appealing...

But then GW2 would be very similar to every other MMO on the market. If that's what people want, then they should simply pony up their sub fees on those games and play them. Personally, I would quit GW2 if it moved to a sub model and I know a lot of others who would as well. Even if it meant a content stream that you suggest.

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But then GW2 would be very similar to every other MMO on the market. If that's what people want, then they should simply pony up their sub fees on those games and play them. Personally, I would quit GW2 if it moved to a sub model and I know a lot of others who would as well. Even if it meant a content stream that you suggest.

More money usually means more opportunity. This is complete speculation of course but lets say we gazed into the future and with a sub meant alliances happened and I guess most of the wish lists people have been aching for for the past couple of years. It might have been worth it.

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@HotDelirium.7984 said:

But then GW2 would be very similar to every other MMO on the market. If that's what people want, then they should simply pony up their sub fees on those games and play them. Personally, I would quit GW2 if it moved to a sub model and I know a lot of others who would as well. Even if it meant a content stream that you suggest.

More money usually means more opportunity. This is complete speculation of course but lets say we gazed into the future and with a sub meant alliances happened and I guess most of the wish lists people have been aching for for the past couple of years. It might have been worth it.

Perhaps for those invested in the alliances concept. Most opinions that I recall on the forums here when sub fees are suggested are opposed to them. Granted, the forums is not a fair representation of the entire player base. /shrug

EDIT: also, sub fees for GW2 would run counter to the original concept of F2P that Anet instilled from the start, IIRC

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I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

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@"sitarskee.5738" said:I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

I remmeber them giving "roadmaps". Like how soon GW2 would be released. It was later and the outcry was huge. When they left the 4 weekly schedule in season 1. The outcry was huge. The reason they do not give us this kind of info is that too many think it means they are entitled to it and things explode very nasty if it isn't met

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@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@"sitarskee.5738" said:I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

I remmeber them giving "roadmaps". Like how soon GW2 would be released. It was later and the outcry was huge. When they left the 4 weekly schedule in season 1. The outcry was huge. The reason they do not give us this kind of info is that too many think it means they are entitled to it and things explode very nasty if it isn't met

Yeah, that's understandable. That's why it would be better for them to just state what exactly they are working on and an estimate date of release for example "We're working on a new raid and we would like to have it released by the end of March". I liked the last roadmap they presented.

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@kharmin.7683 said:And when the new raid doesn't hit in March, then what?

Sorry. Rhetorical question.

I don't know if you realize but it's not just GW2 community that has a bunch of crybabies so I doubt devs get affected by their flaming etc. when they don't get what they want on a certain date. You kinda make it look like it's only GW2 problem while it's pretty much everywhere.

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@sitarskee.5738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:And when the new raid doesn't hit in March, then what?

Sorry. Rhetorical question.

I don't know if you realize but it's not just GW2 community that has a bunch of crybabies so I doubt devs get affected by their flaming etc. when they don't get what they want on a certain date. You kinda make it look like it's only GW2 problem while it's pretty much everywhere.

The point here is that one should not look at other games. But just to comment on the GW2 community. Yes, my experience is that there is a lot of commotion once such a date is not reached while it was promised. Even when it isn't promised at all, but doesn't arrive when one expects it, the reaction can be very flammatory. Just look at the most recent release. It was expected earlier in november. The lack of it resulted in very pitty comments

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@"sitarskee.5738" said:I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

Do you honstly believe the gap between lw and expac content is so small that its unreasonable to expect more?

I had set my expectations thst this would be a smaller release but you have to keep in mind that this didnt meant the udpate came out faster, it came mout a month and a half later than normal.

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@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:And when the new raid doesn't hit in March, then what?

Sorry. Rhetorical question.

I don't know if you realize but it's not just GW2 community that has a bunch of crybabies so I doubt devs get affected by their flaming etc. when they don't get what they want on a certain date. You kinda make it look like it's only GW2 problem while it's pretty much everywhere.

The point here is that one should not look at other games. But just to comment on the GW2 community. Yes, my experience is that there is a lot of commotion once such a date is not reached while it was promised. Even when it isn't promised at all, but doesn't arrive when one expects it, the reaction can be very flammatory. Just look at the most recent release. It was expected earlier in november. The lack of it resulted in very pitty comments

Looking to other games is how you improve your game. The easiest example of this is to simply look at Anthem, that game viewed talking or taking notes from other games in the genre as taboo and it flopped because of it.

Its one of the biggest differences between 1.0 and 2.0, they now practically model their mockups based on what the competition does.

The goal isnt to reinvent the wheel its to take existing concept and see where you can improve upon them (mounts speak to that more than anything).

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@"lokh.2695" said:We can count ourselves lucky if there is a plan beyond the next three months. By plan I mean an actual direction and an idea of what will and what will not be inplemented by said time, not the PR-speak that are """""roadmaps""""".

If the best we can have 8 years in is a plan 3 months into the future then we have a serious problem on our hands.

Deep vision and realistic scopes is what leads to success and growth.

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@mercury ranique.2170 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

I feel like there needs to be some correction here.

"It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system."

WoW literally did both of those things before GW2 did. WoW released their Achievements system in 2008, which also enabled more and more titles to be earned. There were also several MMOs, still with fairly large worlds to spend a lot of time in, that were F2P (Maplestory, Ragnarok Online, Perfect World) or that didn't require a Subscription. They weren't massively popular, but they still existed and some were very P2W, but then there were others that just didn't have the pull other brands had.

But guess what? ANet might have been "innovative" to some extent and challenged the status quo with GW2, but 8 years later two of the most successful MMOs still use subscriptions and they both maintain better player retention and a larger active playerbase than GW2 does.

You can like GW2, that is entirely fine and I won't challenge you on that because it suits your tastes, but I feel there needs to be at least some recognition that their "approach" has flaws. Flaws, mind you, that resulted in 143 employees being let go all at once, the game director Mike Z leaving and there still being no acknowledgement of it, and Mike O having completely left with other veteran ANet devs to form another company. Granted devs moving on or leaving to other companies are a norm in the industry, but these things are something else.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

I feel like there needs to be some correction here.

"It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system."

WoW literally did both of those things before GW2 did. WoW released their Achievements system in 2008, which also enabled more and more titles to be earned. There were also several MMOs, still with fairly large worlds to spend a lot of time in, that were F2P (Maplestory, Ragnarok Online, Perfect World) or that didn't require a Subscription. They weren't
massively
popular, but they still existed and some were very P2W, but then there were others that just didn't have the pull other brands had.

But guess what? ANet might have been "innovative" to some extent and challenged the status quo with GW2, but 8 years later two of the most successful MMOs still use subscriptions and they both maintain better player retention and a larger active playerbase than GW2 does.

You can like GW2, that is entirely fine and I won't challenge you on that because it suits your tastes, but I feel there needs to be at least
some
recognition that their "approach" has flaws. Flaws, mind you, that resulted in 143 employees being let go all at once, the game director Mike Z leaving and there still being no acknowledgement of it, and Mike O having completely left with other veteran ANet devs to form another company. Granted devs moving on or leaving to other companies are a norm in the industry, but
these things
are something else.

Ok, you have just proven my point and want GW2 to be just like WoW. Make sure to get your facts right. Arenanet released a title system in gw1 factions in 2006. As it offered a way to fill the gap between releases it attacked players from other games in such a way that blizzard hasted to add a similar system to WoW.It is ok to like WoW and I understand it suits your tasting..... wait, just read your own post again with the knowledge that you did not successfully corrected me, but made a fool of yourself by proving the exact point why it is good arenanet does not follow in blizzards footsteps. More likely the other way around.

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"sitarskee.5738" said:I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

Do you honstly believe the gap between lw and expac content is so small that its unreasonable to expect more?

I had set my expectations thst this would be a smaller release but you have to keep in mind that this didnt meant the udpate came out faster, it came mout a month and a half later than normal.

I didn't say that gap between lw and expac is small, you got my point wrong. What I meant by saying that is that they said they would bring expansion level content with IBS episodes due to no plans on having an expansion but then they announced an expansion and since then the quality of content has dropped. They just don't plan on bringing "expansion level content" in IBS anymore since there is an actual expansion on the way.

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