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Immobilize


Tashigi.3159

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@"Delita Silverburg.8632" said:Skills should not be deleted from the game just because we can't handle them properly with every build. This is like asking for rock to beat both paper and scissors. There should always be something that beats something that beats something in a circle of some kind. Obviously with 18 unique elite specs to play there will be some overlap, but it's up to you as the player to find what you're comfortable with and play that to the best of your ability and accept the rest of the results.

The absurd and senseless part starts when professions consequently become weaker and weaker with the removal of that and the other tool available to them, once a profession loses "its teeth" , you will see players coming on the forum and rightfully ask for nerfs on other professions and that's when the same individuals who wanted the stuff they couldn't deal with removed , will come and tell you....to deal with the stuff instead than having it removed.

Wanna an example ?

-"Of course not. 9 out of 10 noobs learned how to avoid getting lich'd in the meantime"To which I can say:-Of course not. 9 out of 10 noobs learned how to avoid getting rooted in the meantime"

-"Unblockable marks means nothing to to the majority of classes and builds in the game only the most useful against warriors, guardians, and some times revs."To which I can say:-"Immobilize means nothing to to the majority of classes and builds in the game only the most useful against anybody with no awareness and build crafting ability"

Food for thought...

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@Tashigi.3159 said:Can we please just remove this from the game? Or at least address how unbalanced it is when used on classes that rely on dodge to remove the kitten condi or the fact that it can be re-applied almost immediately after removing? Or put it higher on priority for condi cleanse.Just do something about it 'cause unless you're playing a specific build/class to counter it, there is 0 fun had fighting against people who build around immobilize.

We can remove immobilize....after that we have to remove Chill from the game, it's highly disruptive on classes that rely on maneuverability to stay alive or the fact that it can be re-applied almost immediately after removing? Or put it higher on priority for condi cleanse. Just do something about it 'cause unless you're playing a specific build/class to counter it, there is 0 fun had fighting against people who build around chill

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:Immobilize + Cover condis is the single most infuriating thing in this game (to me). If I see a ranger on the enemy team, I will swap to escape runes 100% of the time so I don't get cheesed by Entangle from stealth or an immobilize from the pet.

Entangling Roots are also buggy and some weapons flat out cannot hit them. Condi necro gets destroyed by roots because staff can't hit them (autos miss. marks dont trigger), and scepter takes ages to kill them.

I wouldn't mind immobilize so much if skills that utilized it had better telegraphs, but instead it tends to either proc from traits, or it gets slapped on skills with tells far too light for how powerful the condition is.

Are we talking about the same condi core fear cancer spam that can send condis back?

this is the worst. im a main necro my self.. and im saying condi necro and its fear must be nerfed !omg.. this endless fear .. and the fear does sooooo much damage !

The fear chain is certainly in the same ballpark of annoyance of immobilize chain

and the fear does damage like burning with that stupid trait hahah..Enlighten me!

We are talking about the 500 dps, the terror trait does while the target is feared? This means 2k damage in 20 seconds, right? You say that is broken for a master trait, right?

Is this some kind of "I don't know kitten about what kills me, but blame whatever" here?

A few questions for everyonehow many traits do you need to make fear do 2k damage (the answer is 2 from 2 different lines)how many traits do you need to make entangle do good damage (a single 1 that says bleeding is more dangerous +33% damage)

For fear to do roughly 1k per second (you might even need a few might stacks) you need fairly high condition damage something between 900-1300 if im not mistakenThe thing is most fears only last 1s at their base duration. The only long fear is the core shroud fear and that one now has a cast time meaning its strong but you can react to it and it cant come out while cc'ed.

It takes 1 trait to make the fears do damage (in curses)IT takes a 2nd trait to extend fear duration by 50% turning 1s fears into 1.5s fears and the core shroud 2s fear into a 3s fear. (this trait has already been nerfed from100% duration down to 50% duration this year and had its life force gain nerfed from 15% to 7%)

The only reason cmc is ok with fear doing damage is because it effectively takes a commitment to 2 whole traitlines to make it work.Thats a lot of investment for damage on fairly high cooldown skills. Just about any condi necro biuld has 3 fears at most in its kit so you are looking between 3k for the base shroud fear, 2k for the staff 5, and another 2k to 2.2k for spectral ring assuming you only hit the ring once and assuming all these fears run the full duration without being broken. Thats about 7 to 7.5 k damage over 7 to 7.5 seconds in which you had to break stun or condi clear. In comparison it wont take condi thieff or burn guardian or even a condi weaver to erase that much of your hp with their burst setups right... so really i fail to understand how people cry over fear. In truth if you ate that many full duration fears you probably did something wrong.

Just saying ?

It takes 1 trait to apply immobilize on druidIt takes a hit after a stun/daze/immobilize to apply that immobilize

There is no real reason why Fear as it stands is fine and everything instead is wrong....no reason ofc outside the bias of those using Fear

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@"Shao.7236" said:Don't remove it, make the pulsing less aggressive.

Every second is too often for anyone that clears it just to get caught in the radius again because there's no window of escape at all.

That goes basically for every CC/snare combo in this game....if one goes..all of them should suffer the same fate , it's way more agonizing to be feared/chilled in a loop that being...immobilized which I can clear with simple countermoves like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Sprint

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Movement control isn't fun in any game. It wasn't fun in GW1 either, but at least there, taking something like movement control generally implied a huge opportunity cost due to the way that builds were constricted in their skill choices. In GW2, you get oppressive amounts of movement control FOR FREE either by having it just randomly baked into your weapons because "lolflavor" or even passively because you took a trait which is entirely independent from weapon or skill choice. It's pretty disgusting.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Don't remove it, make the pulsing less aggressive.

Every second is too often for anyone that clears it just to get caught in the radius again because there's no window of escape at all.

That goes basically for every CC/snare combo in this game....if one goes..all of them should suffer the same fate , it's way more agonizing to be feared/chilled in a loop that being...immobilized which I can clear with simple countermoves like

That's why it needs to change and be proper because it's not exactly problematic to have that skill, numbers are the problem.

There's still a chance to get immobilized anyway before/after doing it. Revenant has that problem with Aggressive Agility also and it's annoying. Making the skill pulse every 2 seconds for 2 seconds of Immobilize would alleviated the problem of spam by leaving room for skills to work.

With CC's there's an actual chance to evade after stunbreaking, here you have more RNG than a chance to do so.

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In Core, Entangle being a 1-5 second Immob as an elite was certainly balanced. However now that there are many more sources of Binding Roots that Immob being 1-5 seconds is without a doubt overtuned. As a result of there being Jacaranda, Entangle, Ancient Seeds, and Natural Convergence, the max duration needs to go down.A 3 second Immob on all of these all make them still very strong, plenty strong enough to use and try to play around but will limit the times where you can be Immobed for up to 10s at a time.

A small increase to their recharges(5s to ancient seeds/f2?) could also be justified so it feels less annoying to play against the constant brief immobilize, even if you can get out of it relatively regularly.

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I don't know if it's a bug or what but today while I was playing Ranked with my Dragonhunter I got immobilize(roots) from a druid, I used my F2(Remove immob condi) andit didn't work, and I got killed because of this perma immobilize.......Can Devs nerf a bit these roots with a lot of cooldowns or maybe let the entangle be the only skill with roots...

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@metallaro.7964 said:I don't know if it's a bug or what but today while I was playing Ranked with my Dragonhunter I got immobilize(roots) from a druid, I used my F2(Remove immob condi) andit didn't work, and I got killed because of this perma immobilize.......

It's not a bug.The roots are pulsing Immobilize.You most like cleansed one instance of it, but the next one almost instantly pulsed onto you.

Can Devs nerf a bit these roots with a lot of cooldowns or maybe let the entangle be the only skill with roots...Arenanet should keep the Elite skill as it is and drastically nerf all other ranger applications of Immobilize instead (or completely remove them).

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@Tashigi.3159 said:Can we please just remove this from the game? Or at least address how unbalanced it is when used on classes that rely on dodge to remove the kitten condi or the fact that it can be re-applied almost immediately after removing? Or put it higher on priority for condi cleanse.Just do something about it 'cause unless you're playing a specific build/class to counter it, there is 0 fun had fighting against people who build around immobilize.

I think that it would be better to simply tweak immobilisation. Every profession has something that not only defines it, but also draws exasperated calls for nerfs from disaffected players. Immobilisation is one of the primary ways that a ranger controls the battlefield and defines itself. When you go after a class-defining thing, you need to tread carefully.

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@Stephen.6312 said:

@Tashigi.3159 said:Can we please just remove this from the game? Or at least address how unbalanced it is when used on classes that rely on dodge to remove the kitten condi or the fact that it can be re-applied almost immediately after removing? Or put it higher on priority for condi cleanse.Just do something about it 'cause unless you're playing a specific build/class to counter it, there is 0 fun had fighting against people who build around immobilize.

I think that it would be better to simply tweak immobilisation. Every profession has something that not only defines it, but also draws exasperated calls for nerfs from disaffected players. Immobilisation is one of the primary ways that a ranger controls the battlefield and defines itself. When you go after a class-defining thing, you need to tread carefully.

Last I checked, the class defining thing for Ranger is the pet mechanics, not immobilize.

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@Tashigi.3159 said:Or at least address how unbalanced it is when used on classes that rely on dodge to remove the kitten condi or the fact that it can be re-applied almost immediately after removing? Or put it higher on priority for condi cleanse.Just do something about it 'cause unless you're playing a specific build/class to counter it, there is 0 fun had fighting against people who build around immobilize.

It's not fun for me to play vs flamethrower core engi, skill-mash mesmers, torch-spouting berserks, sic'em soulbeasts, trapper dh, deadeyes, flame weavers, reapers. Let's add these to the list. If it's not fun to play against these, they should really be removed, it doesn't matter if the teams are not composed of 5v5 immob-druids, they should be removed cause that one guy is not fun to play against.

Also because newbie players waste their skills to cleanse it. It's not like the solution would be for them to learn not to, like everyone else did during their progression, it's the skill.

If you rely on dodge to remove the condi, then you're not packing enough condi cleanse to fight that class. I am also relying on dodge to remove burning, but I don't want guardians to be removed from the game because they reapply it after dodge. That would be nuts.

Also, you know that moving from that spot prevents the reapplication of the roots, right? Somehow, all of these people I keep finding in PvP seem to have no problem leaving my roots...of course, there is always that guy...

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Show me a top 50 game where Pulsing Immob locks a target in place for the entire duration, or even 60% of the duration. Thanks.

LE: I agree it might be a problem for new players that don't understand the mechanic yet so they don't yet know how to avoid it, but it can't be for anyone else. Also, I am not playing a druid or even using immobilize in my build, just to make that clear. I just don't find it an issue.

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@WolfHeart.1256 said:Show me a top 50 game where Pulsing Immob locks a target in place for the entire duration, or even 60% of the duration. Thanks.

The top end is not the only part of the PvP playerbase.In fact, it's not even a big part of it.Therefore, the top end shouldn't be taken as a measurement for changes that could benefit a significantly bigger part of the playerbase.

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@WolfHeart.1256 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Last I checked, the class defining thing for Ranger is the pet mechanics, not immobilize.

That's like saying a Guardian's mechanic is to guard not to deal damage or burn.

What in the world are you talking about? Guardians class defining things are virtues, and for Ranger it's pet mechanics. Immobilize isn't Ranger exclusive or class defining.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Fueki.4753 said:The top end is not the only part of the PvP playerbase.In fact, it's not even a big part of it.Therefore, the top end shouldn't be taken as a measurement for changes that could benefit a significantly bigger part of the playerbase.

The point I was making was that, if you judge Immobilize from the perspective of the people that don't know how to evade it to begin with, your logic for having the skill removed or changed is flawed. If my opponent uses Entangle and I use a cleanse without any follow-up action and expect it not to be re-applied, the problem is not with the skill. This was the idea.

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:What in the world are you talking about? Guardians class defining things are virtues, and for Ranger it's pet mechanics. Immobilize isn't Ranger exclusive or class defining.

I never said Immobilize is Ranger exclusive or class defining, what I said was that pet mechanics isn't class defining. Have you tried killing someone in PvP with nothing but your pet? Try and have a duel with a friend where you use no weapon skills and let the pet do all the work, when you would be able to kill your opponent, then it would be class-defining. Otherwise, it's just a mechanic that's unique to a class, not class-defining. I am hoping you understand the difference - I am not trying to be rude, but pets are so clunky. I won't even touch on the fact that, necro minions (just one example) are largely similar to ranger having a pet, so it's not even that unique of a concept for other classes. Most pets can barely keep up with hitting a moving target - if you think these define a ranger, I guess you haven't been playing one for very long.

Same thing applies to guardian, virtues is the mechanic that is unique to guardians, not what defines them.

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Imagine ppl complaining about builds like decap druid. The only way to have any offensive value as druid is with immob and either knockback/condi. To take this druid cements the fact that their build has terrible sustain and if they want more sustain like from nature magic than their build will only be good enough to decap nodes and almost never “win” the 1v1 by getting the node.Even then there is such a thing as damage, teleports, stability and condi cleanse all of which is a build brings a nice amount a decap build can be totally forced out of relevance- I mean plz it’s a 1v1 spec(though it has alittle support) that I can demolish as a thief or a rev and then just rotate and do actually useful stuff

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