What do you think of the new Living World: Champions? (spoilers inside) - [Merged]

[Jilora.9524]

Anet you need to ninja patch speed up that t1-t5 counter. Either you greatly overestimated how many would play this content or failed to realize we can't farm these tokens. We are limited per day not like the fractal rush where we could grind all day if we wanted. Either that or players are hoarding these like a dragon instead of trading them in

[voltaicbore.8012]

As the old saying goes: "you get what you pay for." LW is free of charge to us playing actively, but for the first time I feel we literally got what we paid for - nothing of value. As OP said, I came into this with very low expectations, and ANet somehow found a way to get even lower.

All of that is, however.... oddly okay for me at this stage. While Champions thus far did make me question (for the first time ever) whether or not I'd buy an xpac, just a bit of objective thinking reassured me that EoD will likely be of much higher quality than Saga in general, and Champions in particular. I'll still buy it early, if there is any benefit for doing so.

The one thing that would give me long-term concerns about the quality of the game is if we found out that IBS was initially planned with a more coherent story, but due to lack of confidence/staffing changes/whatever began to take all the ridiculous turns it has so far. To me, I would feel much more reassured that IBS was always intended to turn out this way (start with norn, then totally ignore them and go to charr, add in charr family drama, then... Primordus... because Primordus). Even if I think it's garbage, at least it was pre-planned, and it would just be a case of me not happening to like something. If it either (1) wasn't even planned out this far, or (2) turned into this frankenstein mess because ANet couldn't stick to and execute a vision, then I would have serious concerns about ANet's structural ability to deliver story and gameplay.

[SteveMND.1754]

Honestly, I still have no idea what I'm doing in this chapter. As best I can tell, it's just doing the daily. I _think _buying the new crystals are advancing the counter, but I can't tell (and even then, it seems like half the time the counter in the top-right mission list isn't even displaying for me). And when I ask Lokka how I can assist, it just opens the daily missions tab with no further explanation. Seriously, is that all? I mean, there's a "Rallying the Crystal Bloom" achievement, and when I left-click on it to find out what I need to do in order to progress that, it's literally blank. I mean, I'm at 2/5 for it, so I guess I did something, but I have no idea how or why. I haven't fully finished the "Marshalling the Crystal Bloom" daily achievement yet, so I don't think that would be it.

Little to no explanation; not even a highlight on the Eye of the North map to let you know who your unnamed 'ally' you needed to meet up there was. In time, I eventually figured it was Lokka because more PCs seemed to be around her than anyone else, but I still have no idea if I'm missing other stuff.

I'm not impressed.

[Little Leota.5849]

I don't understand why ArenaNet gets an idea in their heads and then insists we play it and like it. What if I don't enjoy strike missions? Too bad! You have to do them if you want to continue the story. What story??? There was no story. Ryland blah blah blah, Ryland blah blah, blah blah blah. Ugh. I am extremely disappointed in this episode, especially after Drizzlewood. Drizzlewood had good story that moved along, and then a fun replayable meta thereafter. Not so this piece of junk. I'm really disappointed in you, ArenaNet.

[AliamRationem.5172]

It doesn't seem like there's much "story" to it and the chosen delivery method is terrible as replayable content. You really want us to do these things daily when it forces us to waste most of the time doing boring events and killing trash mobs in between segments of listening to the same NPC dialogue? Then you cap it off with boring, uninspired bosses?

I guess my question is why is this better than an actual story episode with a new map? For me, every episode of Icebrood Saga has been worse than the previous! Your old delivery method of a single map with an actual story episode was better than the experimentation you've done with 1 map per 2 episodes (Drizzlewood was an AWFUL idea with that ridiculously long meta because of this choice!). This Saga hasn't been good since the prologue with Grothmar Valley (which was a good story episode with a cool map that has the kind of personality I expect from you guys!).

All I can say is that EoD better be good because Icebrood Saga is a big fail for me so far and this latest episode has me barely wanting to play.

Edit: Honorable mention to Bjora part 1, actually. That Raven Sanctum stuff was pretty cool and I didn't get annoyed with the story until Bjora 2 dropped.

[RIN.1659]

my take on all of this this story line has been great blended well from scarlet threw HOT and POF we lost great NPC's some Shed tears now we come to the end the last few chapters and one wild fight but chapter one so far is lacking not a fan of time gates hence why i do not craft this chapter to me was placed in front of a sand blaster filled with Dimond Dust to give it luster but was left to long and is now looks like a dull pit filled mirror that can never be fixed nice way to end a epic storyhope the last few chapters do not lack the luster and if this is how game play in the new Xpack will be then i wont be sadly i have played GW from the start some 15 years and 30'000 hours invested hope i dont need to find some thing new

[hugo.4705]

Before starting, yes, I know some posts have been made about it to whatever discuss theories, debating about the stranges dialogues or future possible plots...But I usual, since there isn't any feedback thread anymore; I'm gonna make one for that one, like I did for many other episodes.For once, I'm gonna treat it by instances. There isn't a lot of them so.. and it's pretty fast.

Will be M O R E - S H A R P - A N G R Y than my post about missions. Cause I want to pass a message. So I say it directly here:I'm indicating by (+) or (-) near the story step if it's good or not.3 (+), 4 (-). But really, II and III is the biggest issue to me. (Primordius rising, Rata Sum)

THIS POST IS MADE FOR GW2 DEVS, WRITERS, MAP DESIGNER, ANET, and not theorycrafters players. You can reply if you want of course, of give your opinion; but know it isn't directed to the playerbase, but ofc you can reply.

By advance, sorry for the eye burning caps. And yes, caps = angry. Not shouting. (Btw at the very end there is congratulations to MUSIC COMPOSERS/ENGINEERS, ARTISTS) And I pray you to read until the end before debating. THIS IS CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK, don't close yourself like a shell and ignore anything in the following:

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I. Primordius Rising (EOTN) (+)

It starts in EoTN, Rytlock and Braham start talking about clearing the last of dominons, and seeking for answers regarding the earthquakes. Then Jormag speaks through bangar, to tell that Aurene have to reach her potential and end Primordius. But Aurene answer it's not its role, that the balance can still be maintained. After that, Taimi, which already have answer to anything like usual ask us to join her in Rata Sum.

Not really anything to say about that first instance, it's a logical suite to the previous events. And jormag saying primordius will lay waste is just crap to convince us. Like "reaching your potential" is the crap to convince Aurene. Jormag just want to kill primordius and play with us. Let's see the second instance...

SO YAHOO. POSITIVE POINTS HERE.

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II. Primordius Rising (RS) (-)

Here i need to quote the whole discussion on the main plaza, I put on side the dialogue of Gorrik waiting for a delivery on the docks which one sounded interesting (will speak about it later).

Rytlock: "Tell me I'm not seeing Frost Legion."Gorrik: "Apparently the Arcane Council invited them. And Ryland."Rytlock: "WHAT?"Me: "You could've led with that Gorrik."Councillor Ludo: "Ah, the pact commander. Welcome. I presume you've come to hear Taimi's findings as well?"Me: "You have any idea who you've let in here? What's he's done?Councillor Ludo: "Ryland Steelcatcher, champion of Jormag. He commands the ice dragon forces." /PONDERRytlock: "We've been looking everywhere for you."Councillor Vark: "Rata Sum is no charr battlefield. What's done is done, Commander" /CHEER HE HAS A BRAIN, TELL RYLAND TO GO AWAYCouncillor Ludo: "The Arcane Council deals in the present and in the future. Jormag is awake--" /DOUBTBraham: "Yeah, because of him."Councillor Ludo: "Which means primordius will not be far behind"Councillor Vark: "Facing a common enemy, alliance is logical. I'd would think the Pact commander would recognize the vallue of this arrangement." /FACEPALMMe: "You would think."Ryland steelcatcher: "The asura have studied have studied Primordius for ages. Foolish not to seek their knowledge. And Jormag's no fool." /FACEPALM THROW HIM IN JAIL ALREADY!Rytlock Brimstone: "Sure, as Elder Dragons go, Jormag's pretty reasonable." /LAUGH*The rest will be cut, because it go even deeper in stupidity.

There is so so so much wrong there, like, what the writers seen or thought before doing that episode, but their minds were not here. Don't they have consulted the previous established facts? Are they even forgotten even the most basic things?Positive points are that Braham and Rytlock have a brain compared to others. Dunno if happening in open world is a pro... (players staying on the npcs...)

1-THERE ISN'T ANY COUNCILLOR CALLED VARK. THE CLOSEST NAME IS YAHK AND HE IS THE REPRESENTANT OF INQUEST, AND THEREFORE WEAR A RED-BLACK-WHITE ARMOR AND NOT PINKISH CRYSTALS WITH YELLOW. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Council

2-ARCANE EYE DON'T DEAL WITH THE PRESENT AND FUTURE AND TRY BY ANY MEAN TO HIDE TO CITIZENS EXISTENCE OF DRAGONS AND THEIR MINIONS, THERE IS NO SENSE IN LETTING ANY DRAGON CORRUPTED CHARACTER OR MINIONS IN THE CITY. THEY EVEN TRIED TO SUPRESS PROFESSOR GORR

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rakt_and_Ruin"Zojja: You won't get away with this. We'll tell the world. We'll distribute Gorr's research. We'll—""Councillor Flax: You'll make a lot of shrill noise, as always. And as always, no one will listen or care. You're wasting the Council's time. This audience is over."

3-IT ISN'T THE ASURA WHICH HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT PRIMORDIUS, BUT THE INQUEST, THE OLDEST ORGANIZATION THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED WHEN THE ASURA WAS CHASED FROM THEIR UNDERGROUND HOMES BY PRIMORDIUS. ONLY THEM HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE, AND YES, INQUEST ALREADY EXISTED IN RATA NOVAN SOCIETY SO THE HIDDEN RATA NOVUS LAB IS SURELY FROM INQUEST BEFORE THEY LIKED PUTTING EVERYTHING IN RED

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inquest -> Gave a destroyer specimen to dredge. Studied zhaithan, mordry, and primordy "Sbubble too", jormag in the crucible. Studied kralky in rata primus. Successfully harnessed in golem their essences; created devices to control them, discovering a new mean of communication with kralkatorrik hive mine ability. Technically they could create an army of minions only for them, right now. No need to ask anyone to defend themselves.

4-GORRIK SHOULD HAVE ASSASSINS ON ITS BACK. NO DEFECTORS ARE ALLOWED -Wiki again

"The Inquest runs a very tight ship—once an asura joins it, they are expected to be members for life. The organization believes that everything their members learn is proprietary knowledge, and the Inquest thus have the right to reach into the members' brain and take it out, if they so choose.[5]The Inquest has taken extreme steps to punish or reclaim those who try to defect from the organization. The agents are especially tough on those who try to get out if those people have valuable or incriminating information which the Inquest wants to keep to themselves."

5-IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT PRIMORDIUS DATA WILL BE GIVEN TO JORMAG, BECAUSE OF POINT 3, EVEN KILLED, NO INFOS IS RETRIEVED FROM THEM, SURELY SENT TO A BIG TOP SECRET HIDDEN DATA CENTER. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Charge. No data available, self destruction protocol if breach.

6-AN ALLIANCE ISN'T LOGICAL, ESPECIALLY WITH A CHARACTER WHO CAUSED GENOCIDE OF CHARRS. ALSO THE ASURA FEELS SO MUCH SUPERIOR THAT THEY WOULD STAY AND FIGHT ALONE INSTEAD OF SEEKING FOR AN ALLIANCE AND EVENTUALLY DIE ALONE. ESPECIALLY ABOUT ALL THE EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE: EXTERMINATOR, PHALANKS, BALLISTAS, CENTURIONS, SUITS, LASER CANNONS, FORCE FIELDS, PROXIMITY SENSORS, RATA NOVANS GOLEMS. NO REASONS THE ARCANE COUNCIL CHANGED FROM THEIR ANCESTORS HOLDING THE LINE AND SEEING NO THREATS AND BEING PASSIVE.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/That_Old_College_Try"Their Arcane Council assumed it was simply a matter of time before the destroyers were annihilated by asuran skill and acumen. It was hubris that caused the downfall of their underground civilization; thousands of years to build, but only a handful of moments to vanish in the wake of the Elder Dragon's power. "

7-THE ARCANE COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE OUTSIDE OF THEIR ROOM, WITHOUT PROTECTION?!!! THEY HAVE NORMALLY 9 GOLEMS, 2 PEACEMAKER OFFICIERS TO GUARD THEM. WELL APART YAHK, A GUY WITH A BRAIN THAT A PERSONNAL GOLEM AND 2 INQUEST PERSONNAL GUARDS. AND WELL, PHLUNT SECRETARY GOLEM. RYLAND COULD LITERALLY DO A SWITFT DAGGER MOVE AND CUT ALL THEIR THROATS IN A SECOND. ILLOGICAL, AGAIN. BECAUSE NOTHING HERE. NOT EVEN GUARDS.

**8-THE NON CONSISTENT STORY. IT HAS BEEN SAID AND RE SAID THAT KILLING DRAGONS IS BAD AND NOW EVERYONE IS YIPEE LET'S KILL THEM ALL, ALL HAIL JORMAG, ALL KILL PRIMORDIUS... WHAT A MESS.

Will return to that point later in the next instance. And well, no additionnal dialogue, no talk options, feel rushed and very bad story/dialogues.

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III. Primordius Rising (RS, GORR LAB) (-)

It starts with taimi, openly giving informations whereas JORMAG is literally behind her.... and see through it's minions eyes... even the spots of where to go... /BIG FACEPALMAs expected, destroyers attacks; and the three councillors do nothing, standing up, not attacking. Better having put a squad of peacemakers.The instance without any npcs to guard the entrances of taimi speech room. Again... since gorr incident it would have been expected that space to be a kind of Arcan Eye headquarters ? cause frankly; the map has a poi "Arcane eye department" but there is nothing to be found here. Better swapping now the POI "Arcane eye dpt" and "Advanced Metamystics lab".

Again, no additionnal dialogue, no talk options... even if it's a rush, we could hear about opinions about what just happened... the instance is so empty of allies...

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IV. Primordius Rising (RS, PORT AUTHORITY) (-)

So we arrive and see essentially cadavers of asura. Only one big golem fighting. And somehow, frost legions soldier whereas we slaughtered them in jormag rising, and after braham and rytlock continued to kill dominions... LOLRytlock: "The hell are you doing?"Ryland: "Don't need your permission. Clean this up!"So basically they are in conquered land? What more BS will happens? Thanks for showing asura as incompetents and not able to defend themselves will remember that.The inquest in the dock storage room somehow disapeared... WHUT. I mean, WHUT?!

Look at this, really just so empty again, and just foes no allies even here!!! (NO, ICEBROOD AREN'T ALLIES)Only positive point, rytlock has a brain.

And sadly, STILL NO TALK OPTIONS OR ADDITIONNAL DIALOGUES....And me thanking Ryland foe having my back.... REALLY DARN IT, I BETTER HAVE STAYED IN MY DIVINITY REACH INN INSTEAD OF THAT WHOLE THING.At least, rytlock and braham are still sane and consistent, still pointing wth are ryland and jormag forces here. And Taimi... well she officialy lost her mind and the council too.Councillors still doing nothing watching us fight.

Just no living allies, feel like a very cheap version, only dead everywhere.... Here is a little screen, edited by my cares, for a better version of that instance:(Before having InQuESt AreN'T aLlieS ToO!, we have already gorrik... we had R3D-RCR... seeing gorrik would motivate any inquest around to fight with us. (without speaking of YAHK))

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V. Tidings and Misgivings (EOTN) (+)

Aurene just concluding that jormag wants to kill primordius. And us thinking what would happens after jormag kills it... I tell you, Jormag will kill us if we kill primordius. Both have to be killed, and we should already suppress Ryland an dismantle its soldiers, recover braham bow and kill jojormag. Then only, since no more whispering, we kill or not primordius. It cannot be allowed to play along jormag and letting it corrupts everyone when arriving and whispers through every map. We just anhilated drizzlewood and destroyed the machines and they are already back... what have rytlock and braham cleared? It is pointing already known facts... why since jormag rising we are just sitting, instead of killing ryland....

Okay story step, but well don't see the point. BUT HEY, SECOND POSITIVE POINT!

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VI. Defending Tyria (+)

Well, the missions remind me an heart quest of core tyria, with an escort with a final boss that is kinda a world boss (well, less stunning) I can't really criticize, and the main cons, is the mechanics like not having gold (full) rewards in public. But I liked them. So, POSITIVE POINT.

VII. Calm in the storm. (-)

Phlunt dialogue in eye of the north is more than disturbing."Your research may end up giving Jormag an advantage." -> Your critique is both obvious and Unnecessary. EXCUSE ME WHAT?!! PHLUNT YOU ARE HERE OR NOT?!!!FOR A OLD GRUMPY DUDE THAT KEEP EVERYTHING FOR ITSELF AND WANT TO ATTRIBUTE MERIT ABOUT ANYTHING, YOU ARE SAYING TO BE OK WITH GIVING INFOS THO THE FIRST DRAGON MINION YOU MET?! W H A T? SKRITTSHIT! IT IS THE ONE THAT THINK A LOT AND HE IS LIKE OKAY? O_O WAKE UP WRITERS.

-Like many other asura, he is arrogant beyond his worth and thinks highly of himself. He sees himself, and his research, above all others though has recently begun to see potential in Taimi.WIKI. For ETERNALY ALCHEMY SAKE, WAKE THE FRICK UP. HE - CONSIDERS - ITSELF - ABOVE - A L L - O T H E R S he don't care at all about dragons, he is an ambassador for others races, not for dragons minions.

"These destroyers seems to be free of Zhaithan's or Mordremoth's magic." -> An astute observation. Primordius slumber may have allowed it time to process the foreign magic__or alter itself to accomodate it. We don't really know at this point.AND I DON'T FRICKING KNOW TOO! WHAT THAT CRAP EXCUSES YOU'VE PUT?!!! N O - I T - C A N ' T - A D D A P T - TO - SUPPORT - IT. DO I HAVE TO REMIND YOUR WRITERS ABOUT https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Subject_Alpha, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Simulacrum_of_Subject_Beta, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kudu%27s_Monster, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vine-Touched_Destroyer, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rotting_Destroyer. IT JUST FEEL LIKE A LINE ADDED LAST MINUTE BECAUSE YOU FORGOT ABOUT THOSE, REALLY YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!!

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VIII: The future?? ( + / - )Welp, not gonna lie, but I'm totally against going toward the path of Jormag is life, Jormag is love, kill primordius and get frozen. Really, Aurene, just brain wash the asura, taimi, braham, phlunt, the arcan council and let's restart with good base and returning slaughtering jormag servants.

Now food for thought... Here what I expect to see:

Attack on Rata Sum. Breachmaker alarm around the whole cube, lava rose from the depths to fill the useless golem mines which now have the purpose of bringing destroyers in the core of the city. Golemic divisions are deployed all around. Peacemakers starts making barricades and all forcefields gates are activated. Goal? Primordius want to erase any data of itself in the city and reducing asura forces.

Will this scene happens, or are the artists way far more talented than story and events coders again? Rata Novus story instance also had a beautiful loading screen, and it was a disapointment. But most importantly, will those thin golems appear? REALLY FOR ETERNAL ALCHEMY SAKE, IT HAS BEEN 8 YEARS, CAN'T NEW GOLEMS TYPE BE ADDED? Mark III if you want... sadly I think that scene will not happens and that why I made the scene just above that one.

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TLDR: NOT ENOUGH NPCS AND ADDITIONNAL DIALOGUES THROUGH "Talk" option to npcs. THE INSTANCES ARE SO INCREDIBLY EMPTY.... WOW W-O-W and the story have been written by a skritt in a rush. If it can't help you, here is my triangle thingy and the points you haven't respected:

Story= Well there is a story. Primordius is awake. It causes havocs all around tyria. And we need to act about that.Quests= We have things to do, listening to Taimi speech, going in Rata Sum, saving peoples in different maps through the dragon response missions.Events=There is events: mostly eliminating destroyers, but also saving citizens in missions or investigating origin of the destroyers.Meta= There isn't any by event chains, nor world bosses... so NOPE. No feel of real progression toward a clear goal after all the story steps.Factions= Half are missing. No skritts nor nightmare court around skrittbourgh in brisban mission. No Centaurs nor pirates in gandarran mission. No rata novan golems nor inquest in metrica mission. Inquest isn't here in Rata sum mission whereas they are present in the port of rata sum outside of the story instance... so NOPE.Environmenets= As said before, factions are missing. The environment is okay/rich for missions globally. Apart the BIG NEGATIVE FACT THERE ISN'T ANY VIGIL/WHISPERS/PRIORY FORCES FIGHTING. Also, the story instances are too empty. And so, NOPE.Achievement= The missions are boring quite rapidly and not rewarding, even the bosses strikes award more rewards (Kodans, fraenir... ). Also no feels of achievment after completing the story, having useless npcs behind not fighting and dead bodies all around the story instance don't help with that. No impressive fights or mechanics too....

Word of the end. Anyway, If no efforts gonna be made; I will be leaving during chapter 2 of champions. And this is frankly the worst story release I ever seen. Is the expansion driving away so much of the team at a point nothing is left to make the living world story instances? For I, and i don't know about others players, be more than happy to give advice about how to make a good story instance involving asura or primordius or inquest or dragon minions. REALLY, BECAUSE IT SEEMS YOU NEED ADVICES. AT A POINT THAT NOW? EVEN ORGANIZING A CONTEST FOR THE NEXT STORY STEP OR MAP WOULD WORTH IT.

For the pros now: I'm gonna make a huge clapping, and cheerful congratulations to music composers and graphic artists. Really, you do an awesoe job: Very liveful and amazing musics and loading screen arts or concept art in general. And I'm sad that your arts/themes don't really reflect on the gameplays and mechanics.

So that may be my very last episode feedback. And I let you maybe, learn of that fiasco and make yourselves better. Praise the eternal Alchemy.I think, that destroying Rata Sum may help reconsider the area and using the useless valleys around. But I like the cube too...I just hope that after that attack, asura will realise that their city isn't well defended and will use the valley around to create lighting cannons operating platforms, warehouses, more houses outside of the cube and paths.

And I let everyone with that final "Art/drawing" I made. And will return doing fan - writings or theories. I will post another post, I don't really know when, where I will give a rate to every map existing currently. It just take time because I'm applying the things I evoked in my other post with the "MAP TRIANGLE".As usual, just a reminding, you can find all my main ideas and projects under that post, in my signature. Shiny clickable links in red. (BTW there is an expansion concept treating of primordius and asura, just saying.) Here, some ideas for new destroyers or golems.

[Randulf.7614]

There is a feedback thread that's been up since Tuesdayhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118477/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-living-world-champions-spoilers-inside#latest

I think the problems are stemming from multiple sources

• the expansion is clearly the new priority and IBS has been changed, abandoned or whatever. There is evidence a lot of this was already planned out from early dev comments, but it seemd to have been squeezed down a lot to get to what we are presented with. Living World has always been more demanding than it needed to be and I don't think they've ever been comfortable with any method of presenting it. And now we have a Season which is a bit of a mess.
• I don't think anything on the forums guides the dev process for Living World. I'm not even sure how much they read of our feedbck given that Reddit and Discord are more popular hang outs. Whether the feedback there is any different I couldn't say
• The team who gave GW2 life and vision has either changed or has gone. This is a new vision for the game and often are repeating lessons which failed the first time round in LS1 or are trying to get through IBS so they make their own stamp with EoD and beyond.

It's difficult to fully judge this Champions release since we aren't seeing all of it and there's a lot more to come. The early start is just somewhat dull, not well thought out in terms of how parties form and lacking in guidance and communication about how this all works. Many have said it before, but the devs need to stop shying away from their community. MMO's work when devs and communities are in at least some harmony. Not everyone, but certainly in greater accord than we see here. If the devs tell us how the CHapter works in a bit more detail and explain how/when the next delivery will come, it will remove a lot of problems.

I like the story so far (unusually given most LS story stuff is very poor) and the dialogue at least hangs together well enough for what they are presenting. There's some issues in the lack of acknolwedging that Dragons aren't supposed to be killed off, but there's some good stuff in there as well. I was abjectively against a truce with Jormag because it flies against what we already have been fed for the last year, but actually they did an OK job of presenting both sides of the argument for it. It's clearly going to end badly and to be honest I think most players have got used to the Commander having an 'idiot cap' on all the time anyway

To make this chapter work without a full reworking it needs (imo)

• An understanding on these things rotate in/out and how the tiering system is working. ie communication from the devs
• lfg in parties needs fixing (it'll prob happen next week)
• Better and more simplified rewards
• Better scaling or further nerfs. They take too long for too little incentive. They lack the fun and cool mechcanics of Forging Steel which is how these should be presented if they want longer instances.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Randulf.7614 said:the expansion is clearly the new priority and IBS has been changed, abandoned or whatever.

That has been my assessment of the situation as well.

While I am thrilled about a new expansions, as I prefer them by far to LW seasons, I was still looking forward to a fantastic snow and ice adventure season, a hope that was fueled by the Bjora Marches and their promising contents. Now I just want to be done with the IBS, to be honest, as I don't see it working out as possibly intended (I mean, breaking the snow and ice theme by re-introducing Primordus isn't my definition of a great Norn/Charr saga). :/

[Peachblow.2637]

Good points. To throw my two cents in with a quick post, this is the first story that I strongly detest. I haven't been thrilled by some of the episodes in the past, but at least I felt there was some re-playable value towards them and wouldn't particularly mind doing them again. This "chapter" in particular had overly repetitive and tedious tasks (specifically with the defense missions), incredibly frustrating with the amount of knockdowns/knock-backs/and other CC abilities, and overly time-consuming if you're trying to do this on your own. Yes, this is an MMO, but I prefer to do story at my own pace and leave the MMO aspect to practically everything else. I can't foresee this being overly playable in the distant future when nobody is doing this story step any longer (take a look at Living Story season 1 feedback... did we not learn?).

Just my two cents, of course, but this episode really missed it for me and was the first chapter that I logged out really early for a new patch/release day.

[Peachblow.2637]

I'll copy/paste what I had in a different thread as it seems this one is more viewed:

To throw my two cents in with a quick post, this is the first story that I strongly detest. I haven't been thrilled by some of the episodes in the past, but at least I felt there was some re-playable value towards them and wouldn't particularly mind doing them again. This "chapter" in particular had overly repetitive and tedious tasks (specifically with the defense missions), incredibly frustrating with the amount of knockdowns/knock-backs/and other CC abilities, and overly time-consuming if you're trying to do this on your own. Yes, this is an MMO, but I prefer to do story at my own pace and leave the MMO aspect to practically everything else. I can't foresee this being overly playable in the distant future when nobody is doing this story step any longer (take a look at Living Story season 1 feedback... did we not learn?).

Just my two cents, of course, but this episode really missed it for me and was the first chapter that I logged out really early for a new patch/release day.

[Pifil.5193]

@"Ashantara.8731" said:(I mean, breaking the snow and ice theme by re-introducing Primordus isn't my definition of a great Norn/Charr saga). :/

Well, ain't that the truth. They may still turn it back into a Norn/Charr saga but this whole "oh no the world must untie-I mean unite-because the threats are threatening again!" turn isn't inspiring a lot of confidence.

[Poormany.4507]

Pros:Revisiting old locations was nice and didn't feel forced.

Concept of Response Missions seems like a good idea to let players choose to play solo or with other players.

Strike mission allies being helpful in combat, even taking out veteran enemies by themselves, felt natural.

Voice acting for the chapter was very well done (still haven't replayed Drizzlewood yet).

Braham was not whiny and one of the only few characters who considered the long-term effects of allying with Jormag.

Cons:Bosses were too much of HP sponges and felt like they were just made like this to extend playtime, despite it being very boring.

Everyone accepting Ryland with little reservations seemed really unbelievable. I would have expected him to be attacked on sight by most of these characters, much less them openly chatting with him and battling alongside him (even as a single, easily unnecessary ally in the Brisban mission).

Much of the characters' dialogue and drama seemed unbelievable and forced. Taimi's argument seemed laughable for her to be making, and doubtful that she would so easily dismiss the long-term consequences of allying with Jormag entirely. Would have been much more reasonable for Phlunt or one of the other traditionalist Arcane Council Members. Unless Jormag's directly messing with all of these characters' minds, which doesn't seem to be the case, this just seems like forced drama just for the sake of having it.

[ragnarock.4592]

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:It doesn't seem like there's much "story" to it and the chosen delivery method is terrible as replayable content. You really want us to do these things daily when it forces us to waste most of the time doing boring events and killing trash mobs in between segments of listening to the same NPC dialogue? Then you cap it off with boring, uninspired bosses?

I guess my question is why is this better than an actual story episode with a new map? For me, every episode of Icebrood Saga has been worse than the previous! Your old delivery method of a single map with an actual story episode was better than the experimentation you've done with 1 map per 2 episodes (Drizzlewood was an AWFUL idea with that ridiculously long meta because of this choice!). This Saga hasn't been good since the prologue with Grothmar Valley (which was a good story episode with a cool map that has the kind of personality I expect from you guys!).

All I can say is that EoD better be good because Icebrood Saga is a big fail for me so far and this latest episode has me barely wanting to play.

Edit: Honorable mention to Bjora part 1, actually. That Raven Sanctum stuff was pretty cool and I didn't get annoyed with the story until Bjora 2 dropped.

To me the problem to Drizzlewood is the meta, but the idea is not bad and i dont have problem to 1 big map to 2 episode. but this new chapter dont have work any map in season 3/4 o ice saga have more work in the events than the three instance of the new chapter

And the idea of use instance map in tyria i think is a good idea but the problem is the execution. Use instance allows they to better manage the events and their difficulty. Unfortunately we saw that there was no work

[AliamRationem.5172]

@ragnarock.4592 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:It doesn't seem like there's much "story" to it and the chosen delivery method is terrible as replayable content. You really want us to do these things daily when it forces us to waste most of the time doing boring events and killing trash mobs in between segments of listening to the same NPC dialogue? Then you cap it off with boring, uninspired bosses?

I guess my question is why is this better than an actual story episode with a new map? For me, every episode of Icebrood Saga has been worse than the previous! Your old delivery method of a single map with an actual story episode was better than the experimentation you've done with 1 map per 2 episodes (Drizzlewood was an AWFUL idea with that ridiculously long meta because of this choice!). This Saga hasn't been good since the prologue with Grothmar Valley (which was a good story episode with a cool map that has the kind of personality I expect from you guys!).

All I can say is that EoD better be good because Icebrood Saga is a big fail for me so far and this latest episode has me barely wanting to play.

Edit: Honorable mention to Bjora part 1, actually. That Raven Sanctum stuff was pretty cool and I didn't get annoyed with the story until Bjora 2 dropped.

To me the problem to Drizzlewood is the meta, but the idea is not bad and i dont have problem to 1 big map to 2 episode. but this new chapter dont have work any map in season 3/4 o ice saga have more work in the events than the three instance of the new chapter

And the idea of use instance map in tyria i think is a good idea but the problem is the execution. Use instance allows they to better manage the events and their difficulty. Unfortunately we saw that there was no work

Agreed. Low effort. I understand that they pulled all the resources they could for the expansion, but that never would have been necessary if they had started on that right away like they should have.

Just one more way what could be a great game is continually mismanaged. Disappointing.

[Ashen.2907]

Giving crafting materials and/or recipes as rewards is like giving your wife a vacuum cleaner as a gift in my opinion.

[Tyson.5160]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:the expansion is clearly the new priority and IBS has been changed, abandoned or whatever.

That has been my assessment of the situation as well.

While I am thrilled about a new expansions, as I prefer them

by far

to LW seasons, I was still looking forward to a fantastic snow and ice adventure season, a hope that was fueled by the Bjora Marches and their promising contents. Now I just want to be done with the IBS, to be honest, as I don't see it working out as possibly intended (I mean, breaking the snow and ice theme by re-introducing Primordus isn't my definition of a great Norn/Charr saga). :/

Didn’t everyone expect this though, with Primordus being Jormag’s weakness, as well as the Icebrood Saga logo being blue and red, as if it’s a continuation of the story started in Season 3?

[zealex.9410]

I thought it was on character for the Asura to seek aid (if they needed it) from someone like Jormag. I mean hey players have speculated that for years jormag is the counter to primordus and it would be logical to conclude asure have done so as well.

This is the asure afterall we ar talking about, they experiemented and tortured sentient species in the past for their research, their morality at the very least should make this development not an asspull imo.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Tyson.5160 said:Didn’t everyone expect this though, with Primordus being Jormag’s weakness, as well as the Icebrood Saga logo being blue and red, as if it’s a continuation of the story started in Season 3?

No, apparently not everyone. ;) At least not in the way it's done.

Anyway, I'll leave my final judgment for when the three-parter finale is over. Perhaps they'll surprise me positively after all.

[Tyson.5160]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Didn’t everyone expect this though, with Primordus being Jormag’s weakness, as well as the Icebrood Saga logo being blue and red, as if it’s a continuation of the story started in Season 3?

No, apparently not everyone. ;) At least not in the way it's done.

Anyway, I'll leave my final judgment for when the three-parter finale is over. Perhaps they'll surprise me positively after all.

Same. I like to leave at least one character behind to play the full season from front to back, as I did for Season 3 and Season 4, to see how fluid the story is, when played in direct sequence without the 2-3 month gaps. For the most part it plays better when you are able to play the episodes back to back. I suspect the same will be true for this saga.

[Fueki.4753]

@Tyson.5160 said:Same. I like to leave at least one character behind to play the full season from front to back, as I did for Season 3 and Season 4, to see how fluid the story is, when played in direct sequence without the 2-3 month gaps. For the most part it plays better when you are able to play the episodes back to back. I suspect the same will be true for this saga.Have fun playing twelve or more DRMs back to back then.I definitely would not enjoy that.For me, three of them after another was almost too much already.

[Psientist.6437]

Actually it's Primordus not Primordius.Kids these days and their unearned swagger.

There will be 7? more DRMs, we may get more story than most other episode. We could also see a lot of repetitive dialogue.

Same as any other Elder Dragon, knowing Jormag's domains only provides limited protection from the domain. Unlike the domain of Crystal, mortals don't see Persuasion coming. There are undoubtedly ways to harden against Persuasion but the domain and Jormag should not be taken lightly. We all hear our own voice in our head. In Tyria, that voice could be Jormag. That isn't a minor power.

You can't defend the case that Asurans could confidently take on Primordus with a quote claiming Asuran hubris lead to their previous defeat. The role of Asuran expertise in magi-tech can not be ignored. Their culture and cultural projects would somewhat harden Asurans against Pursuasion. However, it would be realistic if their hubris left them vulnerable to Pursuasion. Jormag just needs to sow doubt about the need for balance and plant false confidence in Asuran's ability to manage loss of balance.

The story makes sense if you take Jormag's and the domain of Persuasion's power seriously. The writers are trying to do something fairly difficult and so far I think they are successful. We will need time adjust to the new pacing. The pacing promises the potential for more total content. Hopefully, new mechanics emerge from the pacing and DRMs. I would love to see a spectrum of upgrades that overlap instanced DRMs and the open world. Give individuals a range of upgrades for DRMS, make those upgrades available to public DRMs. Translate those upgrades into upgrades in open world areas where the DRMs occur. I just got worked up thinking about a zone designed just for this.

[Tyson.5160]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Same. I like to leave at least one character behind to play the full season from front to back, as I did for Season 3 and Season 4, to see how fluid the story is, when played in direct sequence without the 2-3 month gaps. For the most part it plays better when you are able to play the episodes back to back. I suspect the same will be true for this saga.Have fun playing twelve or more DRMs back to back then.I definitely would

not

enjoy that.For me, three of them after another was almost too much already.

Depends on how these new masteries assist with making the content easier or not.

[Blude.6812]

Bottom line for me, this LW episode has me seriously considering not buying the next expansion expansion or buying gems for the very 1st time since starting with GW 1. The next LW additions will speak volumes. Hopefully the team gets the message and that they are putting the game as risk with their current direction.

[Josiah.2967]

Stike Missions are terrible. Either raid up or kill the atrocious content that only a select amount of people enjoy. It is to boring for top tier players and not open enough for casuals. The content should die. I feel bored doing it for the rewards alone on the one set difficulty that does not do it for my hardcore side and is just out of reach for most casual friends.

This content is the Strike Mission version of fractals. It also needs to die.

This content makes two thing blantantly obvious. We need a LFG que system for instanced content. That lets us prefill as mich as the group as we have in our party or squad.

It also shows the need for multipe versions of content to cater to all audiences. If people enjoy harder content, they will play it.Titles, achievements, amd greator currency rewards is all thats needed to justify harder content.