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Boon strip needs to be improved across the classes.


Lily.1935

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As the post Suggests. We need more boon removal in the format. This is something that is usually held almost exclusively by necromancer as it is nearly impossible not to run at least a little boon strip. But this isn't something that should be exclusive to them. They shouldn't only be the boon stripper in the game and Spellbreaker is a start but there are a lot of classes that should be strong at boon strip but are quite weak at it.

Engineer, Mesmer, Revenant and Thief all should have much stronger boon removal.

Although I'd also add that the boon strip at the end of the Mesmer sword auto should be removed and put on their skill 3 to keep with consistency as this removed the boon control roll from raids entirely.

Perhaps some might think this is part of necromancer's identity, but I disagree that strong boon strip should be their identity as boons are extremely important across all classes.

But let's discuss.

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@lare.5129 said:

Engineer, Mesmer, Revenant and Thief all should have much stronger boon removal.? why? mesmer and rev ok, But thief ? thief have booostrip? if no - no one care probably :)

All the Classes I mentioned do have boon strip. The issue is these options aren't usually as desired in comparison to some other traits and skills.

Why should they have more? Boon removal is necessary as a stop gap to prevent Boons from getting out of hand. And boons are far out of hand.

Mesmer should be as good as necromancer at boon removal. They are not.

Thief needs a bit more. They have it on a trait that effects steal.

Revenant has some on Mallyx and I believe a trait that specifically targets stability unless I'm mistaken.

Engineer has it on Mine and no where else even though they used to have more.

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@Lily.1935 said:All the Classes I mentioned do have boon strip.okThe issue is these options aren't usually as desired in comparison to some other traits and skills.why it should be same for them? Classess a diferent and we like it. Or we want one class whit different skins?

Why should they have more? Boon removal is necessary as a stop gap to prevent Boons from getting out of hand. And boons are far out of hand.it ok, so depend from situation some classes shoudl be choosesn

Mesmer should be as good as necromancer at boon removal. They are not.who say? not me.

Thief needs a bit more. They have it on a trait that effects steal.nice that thief have this bonus, but I still not see reason ask more because someone can better

Revenant has some on Mallyx and I believe a trait that specifically targets stability unless I'm mistaken.it not trait. it legend what u should choose before start

Engineer has it on Mine and no where else even though they used to have more.nice.Same - I still not see reason ask more because someone can better

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@lare.5129 said:

@Lily.1935 said:All the Classes I mentioned do have boon strip.okThe issue is these options aren't usually as desired in comparison to some other traits and skills.why it should be same for them? Classess a diferent and we like it. Or we want one class whit different skins?

Why should they have more? Boon removal is necessary as a stop gap to prevent Boons from getting out of hand. And boons are far out of hand.it ok, so depend from situation some classes shoudl be choosesn

Mesmer should be as good as necromancer at boon removal. They are not.who say? not me.

Thief needs a bit more. They have it on a trait that effects steal.nice that thief have this bonus, but I still not see reason ask more because someone can better

Revenant has some on Mallyx and I believe a trait that specifically targets stability unless I'm mistaken.it not trait. it legend what u should choose before start

Engineer has it on Mine and no where else even though they used to have more.nice.Same - I still not see reason ask more because someone can better

The Burden of being the Stop gap to self buffing classes shouldn't fall squarely on the shoulders of a single class. This leads to a lot of bad feelings and a call to nerf when it ultimately harms the overall format and further. It hyper focuses balance on a symptom of a problem as opposed to the main problem.

Either You weaken boon application substantially in PvP and WvW or you can offer more and stronger counter play. One method is a major feel bad for players the other opens new possibilities.

Mesmer Was the as good at enchantment removal as necromancer in Guild wars 1. It is as much a part of their identity as it is for necromancer. Yet it has been neglected. Mesmer is supposed to be a control class. Which they are but they don't preform as such as well as they should anymore.

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@"Lily.1935" said:The Burden of being the Stop gap to self buffing classes shouldn't fall squarely on the shoulders of a single class.by that logic everyone should have avatar and spirits? who no evryone spam alacrity??

This leads to a lot of bad feelings and a call to nerf when it ultimately harms the overall format and further.nice words, but about they? what? where?

It hyper focuses balance on a symptom of a problem as opposed to the main problem.necro is not support all party alacrity .. is this problem?

Either You weaken boon application substantially in PvP and WvW or you can offer more and stronger counter play. One method is a major feel bad for players the other opens new possibilities.why we should be happy for "weaken boon application substantially" ?? It opposite cut game and make it "linear".

Mesmer Was the as good at enchantment removal as necromancer in Guild wars 1.yes, and in tetris game I make record in my class. Can we also add this to boon strip equation?

Mesmer is supposed to be a control class.it not supposed. If someone think and hope it is not that is was supposed.

Which they are but they don't preform as such as well as they should anymore.they should not. How say of greatest football player after lose game: "your expectations are your problems"

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@lare.5129 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:The Burden of being the Stop gap to self buffing classes shouldn't fall squarely on the shoulders of a single class.by that logic everyone should have avatar and spirits? who no evryone spam alacrity??

This leads to a lot of bad feelings and a call to nerf when it ultimately harms the overall format and further.nice words, but about they? what? where?

It hyper focuses balance on a symptom of a problem as opposed to the main problem.necro is not support all party alacrity .. is this problem?

Either You weaken boon application substantially in PvP and WvW or you can offer more and stronger counter play. One method is a major feel bad for players the other opens new possibilities.why we should be happy for "weaken boon application substantially" ?? It opposite cut game and make it "linear".

Mesmer Was the as good at enchantment removal as necromancer in Guild wars 1.yes, and in tetris game I make record in my class. Can we also add this to boon strip equation?

Mesmer is supposed to be a control class.it not supposed. If someone think and hope it is not that is was supposed.

Which they are but they don't preform as such as well as they should anymore.they should not. How say of greatest football player after lose game: "your expectations are your problems"

Actually, the rules for Basketball specifically were changed to prevent a specific type of player from rising to dominance again. The 3 point line.

And mesmer was more control focused in GW2 early on in its life and much into HoT. It was rolled back a lot especially after PoF which is a mistake imo.

But I'm not going to keep trying to convince you as you don't want to be convinced. So, good luck with whatever it is you do. I'm going to keep posting on issues arena net will figure out 5 years later.

That last bit is a joke rooted in truth but still a joke.

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@Lily.1935 said:Actually, the rules for Basketball specifically were changed to prevent a specific type of player from rising to dominance again. The 3 point line.this is basketball problems. :)

And mesmer was more control focused in GW2 early on in its life and much into HoT. It was rolled back a lot especially after PoF which is a mistake imo.not after PoF. After one of re balances and chrono rework. It is was mistake? No . It is critical ? NO. Absolutely no. It is not good for some, but it was not mistake, it was valid step to trigger changes and push mesmer from many meta patries and top class.And no matter is this be same by skill, or not. there is only one maintream line, and only one valid variant and no matter that other setup is 99.999 or 100.0099 of first meta.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@Lily.1935 said:All the Classes I mentioned do have boon strip.okThe issue is these options aren't usually as desired in comparison to some other traits and skills.why it should be same for them? Classess a diferent and we like it. Or we want one class whit different skins?

Why should they have more? Boon removal is necessary as a stop gap to prevent Boons from getting out of hand. And boons are far out of hand.it ok, so depend from situation some classes shoudl be choosesn

Mesmer should be as good as necromancer at boon removal. They are not.who say? not me.

Thief needs a bit more. They have it on a trait that effects steal.nice that thief have this bonus, but I still not see reason ask more because someone can better

Revenant has some on Mallyx and I believe a trait that specifically targets stability unless I'm mistaken.it not trait. it legend what u should choose before start

Engineer has it on Mine and no where else even though they used to have more.nice.Same - I still not see reason ask more because someone can better

The Burden of being the Stop gap to self buffing classes shouldn't fall squarely on the shoulders of a single class.
This leads to
a lot of bad feelings and
a call to nerf when it ultimately harms the overall format and further.
It hyper focuses balance on a symptom of a problem as opposed to the main problem.

Where, when, by whom exactly?

Either You weaken boon application substantially in PvP and WvW or you can offer more and stronger counter play. One method is a major feel bad for players the other opens new possibilities.

If the devs want boons to be a significant part of the game (and not sure why they shouldn't be, to a certain degree which will always be subjective) then I don't see why you'd suddenly need much more counterplay to consistently dismiss them in every possible situation. You talk about it "hyper focusing balance on a symptom of a problem as opposed to the main problem" because the boonstrip is somewhat limited and then try to counter boon spam with a boon strip spam. This is not a solution, this is basically piling up more of what you don't want in the game.

Overally nah, I don't think we need more boon strip spammed from "every" class in the game in every possible scenario.

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I am still hoping that we are getting an elite spec focused on alchemy for the engineer in the future. This could potentially be an opportunity to improve engineer's boon hate.

As you mentioned, engineer used to have another option to remove boons except the mine: acidic elixirs. It made all thrown elixirs deal some (very tiny) power damage and remove a boon from all enemies hit.In general, Anet removed alot of our aggressive usages of alchemy when it comes to thematic. Acid coating, acidic elixirs, deadly mixture, etc.

A new elite spec that uses many different aggressive fumes and acids to apply conditions on enemies and remove boons from them seems like a good option.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

They managed to give it to warrior so I guess they can very well give it to any profession.

Otherwise, I do agree with Lan Deathrider, before thinking of giving boon hate on every profession, ANet should probably first fix the difference of "impact" boon hate have between sPvP/WvW and PvE. I would say that the necromancer suffer more from this "difference of impact" than from ANet using him as their main mean to restrain boons in sPvP/WvW.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

They managed to give it to warrior so I guess they can very well give it to any profession.

Otherwise, I do agree with Lan Deathrider, before thinking of giving boon hate on every profession, ANet should probably first fix the difference of "impact" boon hate have between sPvP/WvW and PvE. I would say that the necromancer suffer more from this "difference of impact" than from ANet using him as their main mean to restrain boons in sPvP/WvW.

If this job is handed out via more e-specs, which entirely valid to do, I hope that at least the new PvE content is boon heavy on the mob side so that it matters there. From a PvP/WvW perspective I would hope it is related to the relevant profession mechanic and not accompanied by conversion to conditions or increased damage per boon removed.

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Mesmer and thief have fantastic boon rip options. The amount of available boon strip is fine. The viability of builds that utilize it is another question. Necro identity isnt ripping boons; it is corrupting them. If sword dagger did a bit more damage on thief it would become a viable alternative for them

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@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:I hope that at least the new PvE content is boon heavy on the mob side so that it matters there.

The issue in PvE is less a matter of number of boons than the fact that mobs don't "need" them and encounter design (a Big lump of HP attacked by a horde of players) leave room only for "the best boon ripper" (which is mesmer for the simple fact that he got boon rip on sword AA).

Objectively, having boon heavy mobs on the new PvE content won't even begin to fix the issue since in the end you'll make use of the mesmer and if one isn't enough you'll just take a second instead of relying on other professions.

Furthermore, If ANet generalize boon hate through e-specs, you'll end up having more competition over the boons that the poor lump of HP generate. And this might end up being an issue since ANet tend to make e-spec that carry "boon hate" effect being dependant on actually doing some boon hate in order to work at 100% (For example, spellbreaker make use of it's boon hate to build attacker insight while scourge actually need boon to corrupt for it's punishments to apply torment and cripple).

In my opinion, the necessary step to fix boon hate in PvE is to make boon hate effects interact with defiant foes (not just the breakbar). I'm not asking for boon hate to remove defiance but at least to proc associated effect when they encounter the mechanism, without the need of superficial boons that the single mesmer with it's sword AA can remove faster than anyone.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

Never said every class.

OK ... my mistake ... still, boon strip doesn't need to be given to the classes that don't currently have it ... for the same reason.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

They managed to give it to warrior so I guess they can very well give it to any profession.

Otherwise, I do agree with Lan Deathrider, before thinking of giving boon hate on every profession, ANet should probably first fix the difference of "impact" boon hate have between sPvP/WvW and PvE. I would say that the necromancer suffer more from this "difference of impact" than from ANet using him as their main mean to restrain boons in sPvP/WvW.

Agreed, if the theme supports it, they can dole it out to whatever classes they want. Still, what I said is correct ... every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. I mean ... you're a reasonable person from what I can tell ... clearly you don't think giving out more boon strip is a good idea ... and likely for reasons similar to what I posted. Do we somehow think we don't want meaningful choices when we choose a class? I think we do ... and giving many classes the same access to similar tools degrades meaningful choices.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

Never said every class.

OK ... my mistake ... still, boon strip doesn't need to be given to the classes that don't currently have it ... for the same reason.

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

They managed to give it to warrior so I guess they can very well give it to any profession.

Otherwise, I do agree with Lan Deathrider, before thinking of giving boon hate on every profession, ANet should probably first fix the difference of "impact" boon hate have between sPvP/WvW and PvE. I would say that the necromancer suffer more from this "difference of impact" than from ANet using him as their main mean to restrain boons in sPvP/WvW.

Agreed, if the theme supports it, they can dole it out to whatever classes they want. Still, what I said is correct ... every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. I mean ... you're a reasonable person from what I can tell ... clearly you don't think giving out more boon strip is a good idea ... and likely for reasons similar to what I posted. Do we somehow think we don't want meaningful choices when we choose a class? I think we do ... and giving many classes the same access to similar tools degrades meaningful choices.

Every class I mentioned has boon strip.

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@Kodama.6453 said:I am still hoping that we are getting an elite spec focused on alchemy for the engineer in the future. This could potentially be an opportunity to improve engineer's boon hate.

As you mentioned, engineer used to have another option to remove boons except the mine: acidic elixirs. It made all thrown elixirs deal some (very tiny) power damage and remove a boon from all enemies hit.In general, Anet removed alot of our aggressive usages of alchemy when it comes to thematic. Acid coating, acidic elixirs, deadly mixture, etc.

A new elite spec that uses many different aggressive fumes and acids to apply conditions on enemies and remove boons from them seems like a good option.

I'd add boon strip to some current Elixirs. Such as the Elixir gun on Fumigate. Possible on Mortor Kit too. Just as a baseline.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

Never said every class.

OK ... my mistake ... still, boon strip doesn't need to be given to the classes that don't currently have it ... for the same reason.

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

They managed to give it to warrior so I guess they can very well give it to any profession.

Otherwise, I do agree with Lan Deathrider, before thinking of giving boon hate on every profession, ANet should probably first fix the difference of "impact" boon hate have between sPvP/WvW and PvE. I would say that the necromancer suffer more from this "difference of impact" than from ANet using him as their main mean to restrain boons in sPvP/WvW.

Agreed, if the theme supports it, they can dole it out to whatever classes they want. Still, what I said is correct ... every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. I mean ... you're a reasonable person from what I can tell ... clearly you don't think giving out more boon strip is a good idea ... and likely for reasons similar to what I posted. Do we somehow think we don't want meaningful choices when we choose a class? I think we do ... and giving many classes the same access to similar tools degrades meaningful choices.

Every class I mentioned has boon strip.

Perhaps I wasn't clear so it's worth elaborating.

The classes that have it thematically support boon stripping and those that don't ... don't. I think with that we agree.

The 'amount' that a class can strip is ALSO thematically determined. You state you don't feel it should be 'exclusive' to necros (even though you acknowledge others classes have different amounts), then go to propose those other classes should have more ... without reasoning other than "necros identity" ... that's pretty weird because the theme of a class isn't determined based on the theme of another ... but let's continue anyways.

So let me flip this around to you: Understanding that boon stripping is based on THEME for the classes ... what is your reason you believe the other classes should have more other than "it shouldn't be their (necro's) defining identity"? You do realize that giving other classes more doesn't STOP boon stripping from being a significant part of necro's identity right?

Let's make it simpler ... what is it about the theme of the other classes that make you feel they are lacking a certain amount of boon strip? and what is the correct amount based on that theme (determined by Anet mind you).

and just for the record to be more clear; I'm not a proponent of the idea without some relevant discussion about some valid reason for it to happen. At the moment, it should be clear I absolutely hate the idea of interesting and meaningful skills/effects being passed around to more classes to degrade what it means to have choice in classes because of effects/skills they have access to.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

Never said every class.

OK ... my mistake ... still, boon strip doesn't need to be given to the classes that don't currently have it ... for the same reason.

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

They managed to give it to warrior so I guess they can very well give it to any profession.

Otherwise, I do agree with Lan Deathrider, before thinking of giving boon hate on every profession, ANet should probably first fix the difference of "impact" boon hate have between sPvP/WvW and PvE. I would say that the necromancer suffer more from this "difference of impact" than from ANet using him as their main mean to restrain boons in sPvP/WvW.

Agreed, if the theme supports it, they can dole it out to whatever classes they want. Still, what I said is correct ... every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. I mean ... you're a reasonable person from what I can tell ... clearly you don't think giving out more boon strip is a good idea ... and likely for reasons similar to what I posted. Do we somehow think we don't want meaningful choices when we choose a class? I think we do ... and giving many classes the same access to similar tools degrades meaningful choices.

Every class I mentioned has boon strip.

Perhaps I wasn't clear so it's worth elaborating.

The classes that have it thematically support boon stripping and those that don't ... don't. I think with that we agree.

The 'amount' that a class can strip is ALSO thematically determined. You state you don't feel it should be 'exclusive' to necros (even though you acknowledge others classes have different amounts), then go to propose those other classes should have more ... without reasoning other than "necros identity" ... that's pretty weird because the theme of a class isn't determined based on the theme of another ... but let's continue anyways.

So let me flip this around to you: Understanding that boon stripping is based on THEME for the classes ... what is your reason you believe the other classes should have more other than "it shouldn't be their (necro's) defining identity"? You do realize that giving other classes more doesn't STOP boon stripping from being a significant part of necro's identity right?

Let's make it simpler ... what is it about the theme of the other classes that make you feel they are lacking a certain amount of boon strip? and what is the correct amount based on that theme (determined by Anet mind you).

and just for the record to be more clear; I'm not a proponent of the idea without some relevant discussion about some
valid
reason for it to happen. At the moment, it should be clear I absolutely hate the idea of interesting and meaningful skills/effects being passed around to more classes to degrade what it means to have choice in classes because of effects/skills they have access to.

I mentioned exclusively of a specific role. Not the ability to perform a task. I talked about in the past a type of class I called a foil. A foil is designed to keep popular strategies in check. The necromancer has always played this role to lesser or greater success and traditional other classes have as well such as mesmer. Boon strip is a vital too to the foil's kit and my philosophy is that a meta is unhealthy without having a number of foils in the format proportional to the number of builds. There should always be less than the total number of builds but it shouldn't be as low as it is now and as limited to one class as it is now.

Foils can be a feel bad to play against but they are vital to the health of a format. And if more foils exist players except it more as a part of the game and ultimately engage more with the format. If it's just one or 2 classes that act in this role they players fail to understand the importance of these classes and they get large amounts of community backlash to the detriment of the format. Of course a foil can never be the top build. But when a foil is strong enough and it's the only one it becomes a necessity on a team which skews people's perspective. If it's not strong enough its entirely forgotten and the top builds just run rampant unchecked creating a more stale format. Neither case is ideal. So the best solution is to increase the number of foils available to the play to diversify class representation.

You can think of a foil like a Heel in wrestling. The Moriarty to the Sherlock Holmes. But with a diverse cast of characters like in GW2 having just one is an issue.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

Never said every class.

OK ... my mistake ... still, boon strip doesn't need to be given to the classes that don't currently have it ... for the same reason.

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

They managed to give it to warrior so I guess they can very well give it to any profession.

Otherwise, I do agree with Lan Deathrider, before thinking of giving boon hate on every profession, ANet should probably first fix the difference of "impact" boon hate have between sPvP/WvW and PvE. I would say that the necromancer suffer more from this "difference of impact" than from ANet using him as their main mean to restrain boons in sPvP/WvW.

Agreed, if the theme supports it, they can dole it out to whatever classes they want. Still, what I said is correct ... every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. I mean ... you're a reasonable person from what I can tell ... clearly you don't think giving out more boon strip is a good idea ... and likely for reasons similar to what I posted. Do we somehow think we don't want meaningful choices when we choose a class? I think we do ... and giving many classes the same access to similar tools degrades meaningful choices.

Every class I mentioned has boon strip.

Perhaps I wasn't clear so it's worth elaborating.

The classes that have it thematically support boon stripping and those that don't ... don't. I think with that we agree.

The 'amount' that a class can strip is ALSO thematically determined. You state you don't feel it should be 'exclusive' to necros (even though you acknowledge others classes have different amounts), then go to propose those other classes should have more ... without reasoning other than "necros identity" ... that's pretty weird because the theme of a class isn't determined based on the theme of another ... but let's continue anyways.

So let me flip this around to you: Understanding that boon stripping is based on THEME for the classes ... what is your reason you believe the other classes should have more other than "it shouldn't be their (necro's) defining identity"? You do realize that giving other classes more doesn't STOP boon stripping from being a significant part of necro's identity right?

Let's make it simpler ... what is it about the theme of the other classes that make you feel they are lacking a certain amount of boon strip? and what is the correct amount based on that theme (determined by Anet mind you).

and just for the record to be more clear; I'm not a proponent of the idea without some relevant discussion about some
valid
reason for it to happen. At the moment, it should be clear I absolutely hate the idea of interesting and meaningful skills/effects being passed around to more classes to degrade what it means to have choice in classes because of effects/skills they have access to.

I mentioned exclusively of a specific role. Not the ability to perform a task. I talked about in the past a type of class I called a foil. A foil is designed to keep popular strategies in check. The necromancer has always played this role to lesser or greater success and traditional other classes have as well such as mesmer. Boon strip is a vital too to the foil's kit and my philosophy is that a meta is unhealthy without having a number of foils in the format proportional to the number of builds. There should always be less than the total number of builds but it shouldn't be as low as it is now and as limited to one class as it is now.

OK ... that's your philosophy .. but it doesn't answer my question. What is it about the themes of the 'have not' boon strippers that makes you think they aren't at some correct amount of boon stripping capability ... whatever that level is? it's CERTAINLY not that necros excel at it.

. But with a diverse cast of characters like in GW2 having just one is an issue.

Well, it's not an issue ... because success in this game generally has nothing to do with boon stripping; the lack of a specific skills/effects has never been a barrier to completing content and being successful. It would be more correct to say you think it's inappropriate we don't have more boon strip capability for the classes that have some access to it ... but it's a big stretch to say that's a game issue.

I'm going to put this out there ... I would be very upset as one of these 'have not' boon stripper classes if my classes' bandwidth for skills/effects was wasted on a increase in boon strip ability for PVE .. it's been pretty clear in this game you don't get something for nothing. I can see where there is a case for this being desirable for PVP ... but the question remains what the correct amount is there. Really, I could see a point to this idea is needed IF there was more mechanics where the effect was needed to be successful. That's just not the case.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

Never said every class.

OK ... my mistake ... still, boon strip doesn't need to be given to the classes that don't currently have it ... for the same reason.

@Obtena.7952 said:Every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. We need to support the idea that choices in this game are meaningful, not degrade them with giving all classes full access to a ever widening pool of skills.

They managed to give it to warrior so I guess they can very well give it to any profession.

Otherwise, I do agree with Lan Deathrider, before thinking of giving boon hate on every profession, ANet should probably first fix the difference of "impact" boon hate have between sPvP/WvW and PvE. I would say that the necromancer suffer more from this "difference of impact" than from ANet using him as their main mean to restrain boons in sPvP/WvW.

Agreed, if the theme supports it, they can dole it out to whatever classes they want. Still, what I said is correct ... every class having a boon strip is not thematically supported. I mean ... you're a reasonable person from what I can tell ... clearly you don't think giving out more boon strip is a good idea ... and likely for reasons similar to what I posted. Do we somehow think we don't want meaningful choices when we choose a class? I think we do ... and giving many classes the same access to similar tools degrades meaningful choices.

Every class I mentioned has boon strip.

Perhaps I wasn't clear so it's worth elaborating.

The classes that have it thematically support boon stripping and those that don't ... don't. I think with that we agree.

The 'amount' that a class can strip is ALSO thematically determined. You state you don't feel it should be 'exclusive' to necros (even though you acknowledge others classes have different amounts), then go to propose those other classes should have more ... without reasoning other than "necros identity" ... that's pretty weird because the theme of a class isn't determined based on the theme of another ... but let's continue anyways.

So let me flip this around to you: Understanding that boon stripping is based on THEME for the classes ... what is your reason you believe the other classes should have more other than "it shouldn't be their (necro's) defining identity"? You do realize that giving other classes more doesn't STOP boon stripping from being a significant part of necro's identity right?

Let's make it simpler ... what is it about the theme of the other classes that make you feel they are lacking a certain amount of boon strip? and what is the correct amount based on that theme (determined by Anet mind you).

and just for the record to be more clear; I'm not a proponent of the idea without some relevant discussion about some
valid
reason for it to happen. At the moment, it should be clear I absolutely hate the idea of interesting and meaningful skills/effects being passed around to more classes to degrade what it means to have choice in classes because of effects/skills they have access to.

I mentioned exclusively of a specific role. Not the ability to perform a task. I talked about in the past a type of class I called a foil. A foil is designed to keep popular strategies in check. The necromancer has always played this role to lesser or greater success and traditional other classes have as well such as mesmer. Boon strip is a vital too to the foil's kit and my philosophy is that a meta is unhealthy without having a number of foils in the format proportional to the number of builds. There should always be less than the total number of builds but it shouldn't be as low as it is now and as limited to one class as it is now.

OK ... that's your philosophy .. but it doesn't answer my question. What is it about the themes of the 'have not' boon strippers that makes you think they aren't at some correct amount of boon stripping capability ... whatever that level is? it's CERTAINLY not that necros excel at it.

. But with a diverse cast of characters like in GW2 having just one is an issue.

Well, it's not an issue ... because success in this game generally has nothing to do with boon stripping; the lack of a specific skills/effects has never been a barrier to completing content and being successful. It would be more correct to say you think it's inappropriate we don't have more boon strip capability for the classes that have some access to it ... but it's a big stretch to say that's a
game issue
.

I'm going to put this out there ... I would be
very upset
as one of these 'have not' boon stripper classes if my classes' bandwidth for skills/effects was
wasted
on a increase in boon strip ability for PVE .. it's been pretty clear in this game you don't get something for nothing. I can see where there is a case for this being desirable for PVP ... but the question remains what the correct amount is there. Really, I could see a point to this idea is needed IF there was more mechanics where the effect was needed to be successful. That's just not the case.

There are plenty of skills that could see an improvement. On Mesmer as well. Such as Null Field and arcane thievery. Fumigate with the elixir gun could use some boon removal and these changes wouldn't harm existing builds. There are plenty of underwhelming skills that could use some improvement and plenty of traits as well. It doesn't even need to be any boon removal but specific boon targeting. Like throw Mines could break protection and Stab or something along those lines.

Boon stripping is just one aspect of a Foil's tool kit. And it's a heavily neglected one. It's an aspect of counter play though and in the GW2 landscape it's an important one. Boons are some of the most powerful things you can do in GW2 and I don't think everyone should have corruption like necromancer does but a few extra boon strips wouldn't hurt.

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