Elementalist Staff weapon is trash tier buff it plz

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:Ele staff is actually one of the best designed and balanced weapons. Its just fallen very far behind after 8 years of power creep.

It's not powercreep....every MMO will evolve during its life cycle.....new modes, weapons, skills and utilities get introduced with time.....the original content the one present from the start, must be kept on par with the evolving game, failure to do so will result in content being the opposite of what you state.

-Increased mobility-Increased dmg and sustain-New boons

Isnt that the exact definition of power creep though?

[Zinzon.4081]

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It's not that ele's staff is bad, it's that the gameplay it offer isn't adapted to sPvP "needs" and "mentality". It's design would work well in a siege war where you can actually hide behind walls or a line of meat shields (WvW in a nutshell).

I'd say that one of the thing that hurt the most elementalist's weapons is that most are designed to facilitate a gameplay that rely on fields and finishers, yet field/finisher combo has long been left into the dust by efficient traits and utility skills.

And yet it takes 3/4 a sec to cast a skills and alot of them takes time before they do their damage. It makes the weapon really clunky or you must have a serious big brain to predict movement of person. One can use himself as bait but its far from being enough with the many dash/teleport/mobility meta.

[Liewec.2896]

they actually kept nerfing the damage, i did used to enjoy running a full glass zerker fire staff build, sneak up on constested nodes and nuke it.but for a long while every single patch came with nerfs to staff ele damage, and its just not worth running it anymore, it was already meme.squishiest thing in the game and i can get more damage out of my warrior.

i'm still holding hope that next expansion will let us focus on one element, like a true RPG mage, none of this stance dancing style of play,instead spec as a pyromancer and you get to hurl some serious nukes as a glass cannon.

[Emberheart.8426]

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It's not that ele's staff is bad, it's that the gameplay it offer isn't adapted to sPvP "needs" and "mentality". It's design would work well in a siege war where you can actually hide behind walls or a line of meat shields (WvW in a nutshell).

I'd say that one of the thing that hurt the most elementalist's weapons is that most are designed to facilitate a gameplay that rely on fields and finishers, yet field/finisher combo has long been left into the dust by efficient traits and utility skills.

The gameplay is theoretically adapted to AoE damage. However, even there it is almost useless. Take it to any open world fight or fractal or dragon response mission or whatever, and see reapers do 3x the damage with several times the survivability, especially since you will never hit anything before all the mobs die. Then you also have WvW, where it should be amazing, but is kind of niche instead because of how undertuned the weapon is. Overall it needs massive buffs in every game mode.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Swagg.9236 said:Don't drag staff elementalist down to the level of the average GW2 PvPer. The fact that a player can miss an attack on ele staff is evidence that it has a skill ceiling at all. It's quite rare in this game.

I assume you are answering to this comment:

@"Zinzon.4081" said:Also auto misses all the time despite de animation clearly hitting them. It just says "miss" as long as they move even in constant direction...

A projectile missing even though it shouldn't is not a skill issue. It's most likely a desynch somewhere between the clients and the server, as you often clearly aim the right way, see your projectile tracking the right way, only to go poof at the end. No it's not blocked/dodged/sidestepped, it just misses for no evident reason. I'm pretty sure the server knows why, but I only know what my client tells me, and my client just showed me that I clearly connected that shot. So far the only fix I've found is to either fire these skills point blank, or play something else that does not heavily depend on projectiles... as RNG can literally make you lose a necro vs deadeye duel as the thief.The laggier the server, the worse this problem is btw.

[Quadox.7834]

wasnt staff ele kind of meta for a while back in the time of pirate rune parrot

[Jekkt.6045]

@Quadox.7834 said:wasnt staff ele kind of meta for a while back in the time of pirate rune parrot

it wasn't really meta as d/d was just better overall, but it had the ability to decap a node and was probably slightly better in teamfights because of aoe damage and water fields. there was only one person really playing celestial staff ele.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It's not that ele's staff is bad, it's that the gameplay it offer isn't adapted to sPvP "needs" and "mentality". It's design would work well in a siege war where you can actually hide behind walls or a line of meat shields (WvW in a nutshell).

I'd say that one of the thing that hurt the most elementalist's weapons is that most are designed to facilitate a gameplay that rely on fields and finishers, yet field/finisher combo has long been left into the dust by efficient traits and utility skills.

I don't know what game you are playing xD. Fields are often used by experienced players to fill gaps e.g smoke fields for stealth(super usefull in WvW) , fire field gives might and so on . True a lot skills and traits are more efficient but fields aren't useless. For ele they even buffed the fire field in the last big change this also nerfed the might generation of the ele a lot in the same patch (the trait under it).

The problem with ele is besides the non existence of balance between the different ele builds is Arena.NET forgot what the purpose of the Ele was basically Ele is a bunker cracker. ELe is not a bunker builds or should be. It has only a static field as an unblockable attack . When other bunker with their skills the ele should builds up might so when the bunker skills runs out the ele can kill the enemy in 2-3 hits. This is still possible with great effort as Tempest but then again the weapon skills are a bit slow(horn)

The problem with staff it it is slow too and Arena.NET removed the option as a condi weapon by removing the burns from the fire field skill, What is slow is the meteorshower it has also a bit too high CD when you do a rota consistently.

Also from a PvE perspective the staff became unplayable on where it would be good( sirens reef and maybe even the new 100 cm because of range) because meteorshower roots you if the player could run around while casting having burns on it would open a condi builds on PvE and PvP side

[Megametzler.5729]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It's not that ele's staff is bad, it's that the gameplay it offer isn't adapted to sPvP "needs" and "mentality". It's design would work well in a siege war where you can actually hide behind walls or a line of meat shields (WvW in a nutshell).

I'd say that one of the thing that hurt the most elementalist's weapons is that most are designed to facilitate a gameplay that rely on fields and finishers, yet field/finisher combo has long been left into the dust by efficient traits and utility skills.

I don't know what game you are playing xD. Fields are often used by experienced players to fill gaps e.g smoke fields for stealth(super usefull in WvW) , fire field gives might and so on . True a lot skills and traits are more efficient but fields aren't useless. For ele they even buffed the fire field in the last big change this also nerfed the might generation of the ele a lot in the same patch (the trait under it).

(...)

Fields and combos in general used to be much more important though in the core game. They were never buffed following the powercreep so many fields are barely useful anymore. Who cares about 3 might with a blast finisher in a fire field these days? Who cares about one stack of vulnerability for a projectile through a lightning field?

Some of these effects should be buffed. Not all of them of course! But some are kinda poor, and that takes complexity out of the game.

[Jekkt.6045]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It's not that ele's staff is bad, it's that the gameplay it offer isn't adapted to sPvP "needs" and "mentality". It's design would work well in a siege war where you can actually hide behind walls or a line of meat shields (WvW in a nutshell).

I'd say that one of the thing that hurt the most elementalist's weapons is that most are designed to facilitate a gameplay that rely on fields and finishers, yet field/finisher combo has long been left into the dust by efficient traits and utility skills.

I don't know what game you are playing xD. Fields are often used by experienced players to fill gaps e.g smoke fields for stealth(super usefull in WvW) , fire field gives might and so on . True a lot skills and traits are more efficient but fields aren't useless. For ele they even buffed the fire field in the last big change this also nerfed the might generation of the ele a lot in the same patch (the trait under it).

(...)

Fields and combos in general used to be much more important though in the core game. They were never buffed following the powercreep so many fields are barely useful anymore. Who cares about 3 might with a blast finisher in a fire field these days? Who cares about one stack of vulnerability for a projectile through a lightning field?

Some of these effects should be buffed. Not all of them of course! But some are kinda poor, and that takes complexity out of the game.

i think the other way is better. might stacking for example these days is quite passive and you're not actively stacking it but rather it happens just by doing what you're doing.. holo heat, ranger axe auto, scrapper stability etc. builds in the past actively tried to stack might (most of the time via fire auras and fire fields) and designed their rotation in a way to achieve that. if anything, fields should not be buffed, but might stacking on other builds (the ones that don't have access to the required fields/blasts/leaps) should be changed in a way that requires more "active" ways to stack said buffs.

[Megametzler.5729]

@Jekkt.6045 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It's not that ele's staff is bad, it's that the gameplay it offer isn't adapted to sPvP "needs" and "mentality". It's design would work well in a siege war where you can actually hide behind walls or a line of meat shields (WvW in a nutshell).

I'd say that one of the thing that hurt the most elementalist's weapons is that most are designed to facilitate a gameplay that rely on fields and finishers, yet field/finisher combo has long been left into the dust by efficient traits and utility skills.

I don't know what game you are playing xD. Fields are often used by experienced players to fill gaps e.g smoke fields for stealth(super usefull in WvW) , fire field gives might and so on . True a lot skills and traits are more efficient but fields aren't useless. For ele they even buffed the fire field in the last big change this also nerfed the might generation of the ele a lot in the same patch (the trait under it).

(...)

Fields and combos in general used to be much more important though in the core game. They were never buffed following the powercreep so many fields are barely useful anymore. Who cares about 3 might with a blast finisher in a fire field these days? Who cares about one stack of vulnerability for a projectile through a lightning field?

Some of these effects should be buffed. Not all of them of course! But some are kinda poor, and that takes complexity out of the game.

i think the other way is better. might stacking for example these days is quite passive and you're not actively stacking it but rather it happens just by doing what you're doing.. holo heat, ranger axe auto, scrapper stability etc. builds in the past actively tried to stack might (most of the time via fire auras and fire fields) and designed their rotation in a way to achieve that. if anything, fields should not be buffed, but might stacking on other builds (the ones that don't have access to the required fields/blasts/leaps) should be changed in a way that requires more "actice" ways to stack said buffs.

Totally agree. I should've said adjusted. :smile: Reducing powercreep is a major task still.

[Vancho.8750]

The Ele staff is Heavy Long Range AoE weapon, but it requires positioning or support, that is why it works in WvW inside groups but it is bad in spvp, since some classes have multiple instant teleports and can single out the ele even if it has good position and the ele has to go in full defensive so it stops its pressure. Also Staff ele is teamfight build and it contest a niche that necro fills way better. I'm not sure how can they make staff good for conquest without breaking ele in WvW and even getting some unexpected builds for spvp that become good for every spot ala holo. For example necro is fine as right now, cause of its main mechanic that requires resource, life force is gained by hitting multiple people and if necro is forced in 1v1 it goes into a survival timer since it can't fill its bar, so it can't sit in prolonged side node fights. Ele on another hand relies on just cooldowns, so ele doesn't get 'tired' and it will be equally strong in all positions.

[Swagg.9236]

Here, take this thread from a pre-pandemic age: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98348/staff-elementalists-non-existent-place-in-post-patch-pvp#latest

[Qori.9671]

I wish they had kept the kinda theme the weapon had going for it , like #5 is usually a big AOE effect , before launch in videos you could see the staff ele casting a spell that had chunning earths graphic , shockwave would be a whole lot nicer if it was a ground target AOE immob. Gust would be a whole lot better if it just radiated out of your and knocked back people. Unsteady ground used to actually make a wall that didn't just pop up and knock people down , it was a wall that sat there for a min so people couldn't get at you and you could kite and los around it ( think it was changed to that stupid cripple speed bump version it was before what it is now because groups of ele in WvW could block tunnels off and keep the other zerg locked in the tunnel ). It just needs more ways to make up for the slow weapon that it is. If someone decides they want you dead there is not a whole lot stopping them anymore with that weapon. It used to get by when passive defense procs were on shorter cd somewhat. Every class has gap closers that are on insanely shorter CD than anything ele has defense wise , and melee attacks always hit harder than a ranged attack so ... dead ele. It doesn't even have a reason for them not to just charge at you and kill you. Has anyone ever worried about saving a dodge for a staff ele's burst... no. It needs more baked in defense or it needs something like air #2 to be very fast casting close range and hit like a truck to give someone pause before just saying .. oh theres a staff ele , and charging into you giving zero kittens because they know you can't hurt them.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Qori.9671" said:I wish they had kept the kinda theme the weapon had going for it , like #5 is usually a big AOE effect , before launch in videos you could see the staff ele casting a spell that had chunning earths graphic , shockwave would be a whole lot nicer if it was a ground target AOE immob. Gust would be a whole lot better if it just radiated out of your and knocked back people. Unsteady ground used to actually make a wall that didn't just pop up and knock people down , it was a wall that sat there for a min so people couldn't get at you and you could kite and los around it ( think it was changed to that stupid cripple speed bump version it was before what it is now because groups of ele in WvW could block tunnels off and keep the other zerg locked in the tunnel ). It just needs more ways to make up for the slow weapon that it is. If someone decides they want you dead there is not a whole lot stopping them anymore with that weapon. It used to get by when passive defense procs were on shorter cd somewhat. Every class has gap closers that are on insanely shorter CD than anything ele has defense wise , and melee attacks always hit harder than a ranged attack so ... dead ele. It doesn't even have a reason for them not to just charge at you and kill you. Has anyone ever worried about saving a dodge for a staff ele's burst... no. It needs more baked in defense or it needs something like air #2 to be very fast casting close range and hit like a truck to give someone pause before just saying .. oh theres a staff ele , and charging into you giving zero kittens because they know you can't hurt them.

We've been there...done that....

The class used to do damage...they then nerfed the heck out of it as people were crying too much......what you guys are doing it's all pointless, even when ele get a competitive dmg build, it quickly get demolished with nerfs anyway..

[Qori.9671]

" The class used to do damage...they then nerfed the heck out of it as people were crying too much......what you guys are doing it's all pointless, even when ele get a competitive dmg build, it quickly get demolished with nerfs anyway.."

LOL yeah I miss tornado meteor , actually felt like an elite

[Lucentfir.7430]

No, it's just that everything needs to be brought down to staff's power level, because it's a balanced weapon :]

[Qori.9671]

WAS a balanced weapon. needs to have it's nerfs reverted and then bring stuff to it's level

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Lucentfir.7430 said:No, it's just that everything needs to be brought down to staff's power level, because it's a balanced weapon :]

If stuff has to be bought down to Ele staff power level, then staff is not balanced

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Kuma.1503" said:It's a shame, because staff ele is the closest you get to a true "Mage" archetype in Gw2. It's just not worth using in any game mode except WvW... which is tough luck for me because my computer cannot handle zerg blobs, and even if it could zerging isn't fun for me personally.

It's just ...elementalist was a DPS oriented mage class in GW1, that's what every player who invested in ele wanted to play , I am guaranted that ele players want to play a ranged elemental caster like the one below :

Nobody asked for this ridiculous healbot playstyle...nobody

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"Arheundel.6451" said:It's just ...elementalist was a DPS oriented mage class in GW1, that's what every player who invested in ele wanted to play , I am guaranted that ele players want to play a ranged elemental caster like the one below :

Nobody asked for this ridiculous healbot playstyle...nobody

How did you know I wanted to play ranged elemental caster and not some healbot? :VI don't really think that staff on ele will become ever viable or usable at all because of stupid powercreep that gave too much broken stuff on too many classes, making eles skills pretty much worthless and ignorable for most of the time.Any kind of hard cc can simply be ignored or bypassed thanks to increased access to stability/low cd stunbreaks, any kind of damaging field can be ignored because of very low damage or very long wait time to be applied, any kind of immobilize or chill are simply bad can be ignored one way or another(resistance, walk away), any kind of healing field that could be used to blast/leap will be overwritten by some random aoe field that is created passively by ur teammate, autoattacks that just fly into space 'cause why not and so on...

[Lucentfir.7430]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Lucentfir.7430 said:No, it's just that everything needs to be brought down to staff's power level, because it's a balanced weapon :]

If stuff has to be bought down to Ele staff power level, then staff is not balanced

But that's current day Gw2 forum balancing logic though! If something is underperforming then it's clearly because everything else is bloated and does way too much . We need large blanket nerfs on all weapon skills so they're on par/as powerful as staff :relaxed:

[Stand The Wall.6987]

autos need projectile speed buff, all # 2 skills need dmg buff, meteor shower needs to not be random. seriously don't understand why people defend this skill. meteor shower is a big reason why staff ele is garbage. you can't really stand in it on point and rely on it doing enough pressure to keep people off you while you whittle them with autos.

[Qori.9671]

Meteor used to be more worth it. It dropped more meteors , they hit harder , they didn't have a target cap and the skill didn't have the red AoE ring that all other AoEs have so it made it harder to just step out of it and wait. They need to revert those changes to it. This stupid MM necro build that is so annoying when there is 2 of them + a mirage and ranger with pet used to at least be put in check when you had a staff ele on your team . they would just delete all the AI crap on a point. I cast meteor last night on 2 necros at mid , basically free cast on them meteor WITH arcane power ( which sucks too because of nerfs , one metoer basically eats the whole damn effect now ) The only mobs that died were the little trash necro minions , all their utility ones were still standing. Totally unacceptable to have a skill that roots you to the floor with a big "come kill me now target on your head" not even be able to kill lousy AI mobs standing directly in the middle of it. The only time meteor might have been considered unbalance was when you could pop tornado after it had cast and make the meteors all hit for 10k , but honestly that was when tornado had like a 3 min recast and that was basically as close to an elite ability that we had back then.