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World Restructuring Update 2


Raymond Lukes.6305

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@"jqjazz.4097" said:so nothing new actually changing in wvw yet again :( Raymond Lukes.6305 said "we have made some really good and exciting progress, we are still a ways out from the launch of World Restructuring and Alliances." meaning if we wait as long as we have since the very 1st announcement wvw will be pretty much a dead zone and gw3 maybe on the horizon! oh happy days for us wvw'ers, wrap it in a xmas box and put it under the tree for 2020

2021**

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

Well, it does. Also,

Alliances When!?

cYaJ7RI.png

This made my day ?The intro to WP's latest video may make your day again:

That is some funny young cat right there....,

?

Funny young cat indeed! I can’t wait to share this to my new WvW friends who wonder why I giggle at the meme that is our game mode ?

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@K THEN.5162 said:1 more day until the 2 year anniversary of this lost-cause of a promise! Looking forward to another year of WvW content being ugly, overpriced mount skins for the boring and overpowered warclaw!!

Actually, it’s 2 months until The
3 year
anniversary.

This thread was the second update on it.

For 4 years we have been lied to. It started with Colin (kitten hype master), it continued with Mike O'B (kitten kitten) and now, they don't even give us a name to direct our loathing at.

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Ya know...they could have done some PVE inside WvW "mode" i.e. Tyria travels to the mists to wage war with different realities...or gods...or monsters....or whatever cosmic mists entity you could imagine (fractured observatory anyone?) but we get one dev (harding hard no doubt) to try to satisfy anything and everything. Feelsbadman. I wish Anet would commit more resources to this mode.

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@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@K THEN.5162 said:1 more day until the 2 year anniversary of this lost-cause of a promise! Looking forward to another year of WvW content being ugly, overpriced mount skins for the boring and overpowered warclaw!!

Actually, it’s 2 months until The
3 year
anniversary.

This thread was the second update on it.

For 4 years we have been lied to. It started with Colin (kitten hype master), it continued with Mike O'B (kitten kitten) and now, they don't even give us a name to direct our loathing at.It's sadly 5 years or more. If you read the first qoute by Colin he says that they have been working on a major overhaul for over a year. The Megaservers released in april 2014 while the first experiments for WvW with EotM released in september 2014. Colin back then in interviews mentioned how the back-end team that made Megaservers would be kept intact to keep working on things, implicating that more work could be done for the beta stuff put into WvW or just iterative work in general. As we know today, little to nothing has been done with EotM since september 2014 and it just sits there even though there are plenty of things that could be done with the back-end of it or with what they learnt from developing it.

I've mentioned it in other threads but I think the saddest part of the issues that plague WvW is that they could be addressed with existing tech and that so much more could be done with just smart application of design to avoid needs for larger tech additions and drawing further upon the tech that's here now.

  • Outnumbered to fix scoring and adapt to a multi-overflow system
  • Megaserver flows to fix queues (already exists in EotM?)
  • Possibly streamline old server WvW to not have borders and just overflows on a map carousel
  • EotM with a better map to have a grand three-way mode without servers
  • OS with a better map (same map as EotM) to have a persistant grand three-way using the invulnurable walls tech to create guild-owned structure permanence and ultimately get a grand strategy mode akin to what exists in EVE, WoT or New World. The tech exists, it's just a db entry to get it.
  • Using the guild-owned structure permanence and simple structure/wall layout changes to let players control access and run GvG events inside owned structures (even now the SM throne room is as good or better than any existing Arena option).

There are so many creative things that could be done with what they already have that they could reinvent all the peripheral modes in the mode.

Most of this should not require heavy programming efforts, however, with spaghetti code you never know. In theory though, most of this is simple implementation such as changing database values or reskinning maps (which SCW once claimed was difficult in GW2, but everything is relative).

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@Diku.2546 said:

Wishful thinking...I'd like to see an ANet version of a Road Map for WvW.
  • There used to be roadmaps, they just never followed them.
  • There still are roadmaps, WvW just isn't on them.
  • WvW probably isn't on them because they can't follow them and listing WvW would just keep highlighting that in a ridiculous way.
  • If they are to have roadmaps for WvW they need to have the resources to be able to follow roadmaps.
  • That doesn't exist and that is the problem whether we have roadmaps or not.


We both still seem to care about WvW. Glad we share this same dream.

Hmmm...I seem to have a different opinion about ANet's Road Map for WvW.

There never was a Road Map for WvW.

We only got a partially thought out "Step(s)" as it relates to the game mode.

Instead what we got was something called [ Alliances ]...

Which is the equivalent to Step 2 in the below context of where this game mode
should be heading
into the future...but isn't...imho

I understand that it's not an easy task to create a Road Map, but would you agree that a Road Map should take WvW from its "Current State" to where we want it to be in the future?

Wondering out loud & not asking anybody in particular...

Why can't we have a simple post detailing these "Steps" of a Road Map for WvW?

A simple post that takes WvW from its "Current State"...

To where we want WvW to be in the future?

These "Steps" should fundamentally be linked to each other & proceed in a natural progression of events.

Example Road Map for WvW:

Step 1 - REBOOT WvW - Remove World Linking & Implement Changes to WvWStep 2 - REDESIGN WvW - Re-Purpose Server Guesting for WvG & encourage Healthy CompetitionStep 3 - NEW GAME MODE & VISION - Establish a better Road Map & Vision with World vs GlobesStep 4 - WvG MATCH-UP - Globe Raiding of Green & Blue - Weekly Picked by PlayersStep 5 - EOTM LOBBY - Mist Raiding, WvG Recruitment & Craft-Merchant VendorsStep 6 - WvG TOURNAMENTS - Using New Match-Up Mechanics based on a Globe Raiding ModelStep 7 - WvG OVERVIEW - Welcome to World vs Globes

Full context of example Road Map for WvW:

There never was any Real Road Map for WvW.

What has been presented so far to this community & discussed in great detail & continues to be

A Series of Disconnected "Steps"

That do not fit into a larger Vision on where WvW is headed into its future.

It's dissapointing to watch a game mode that has the potential to evolve into an Annual eSport SuperBowl like event...that could be supported by lucrative corporate sponsors...continue to crumble & errode away due to poor decisions that could be avoided if we had a Real Road Map properly guiding it into its future...imho

A Road Map should beSimple and is beautifulWhen it's understood

Haiku - 5/7/5

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Quick Kick - "Anything worth doing is worth planning" - A G.I. Joe PSA

just to bump this post up one more time! this so much!!!!!!

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Transitioning to this SystemThis system is going to take time to make. As mentioned in the WvW FAQ, part of the reason we did World Linking was because it utilized a lot of existing tech and did not require a considerable amount of time. This allowed us to address the growing population issue quickly, while also being able to address other WvW issues. This new system is going to take considerably more time to make. We do not have a release date, but this is going to require several months of work and it will share resources with any other WvW changes that we work on.

Is it several months yet? :3

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It seems likely that the next announcement of alliances will be when they give us actual information about the next expansion. They will announce "alliance battles" as a feature. Then you will find out that what they mean by "alliance battles" isn't 3 way wvw with new alliances, but a 2 way alliance battle that is Kurzick vs Luxon, servers will no longer matter, and that 3 way wvw will be no more.

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@Super Hayes.6890 said:

@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:Hey everyone,I would like to give you all a quick update about world restructuring. It has been a few months since our last update, and we are happy to let you know that progress has been good. We have overcome a few major snags and bugs and this has put a few of our big goals in sight.

What am I working on?

I am primarily working on World Restructuring with some of my time supporting the live game. These additional tasks include improvements for some live systems, addressing bugs and a bit of internal support for the team. I have worked on some QoL tasks such as removing participation decay outside of WvW. I hope that we soon will be able to announce some of the other things we have been working on. As I have discussed before, we are working on a live game, and so there are always a lot of moving parts.

What has been happening with World Restructuring?

We spent some time since the July update working on breaking down the remaining backend tasks. I have been focusing on getting those things done. Presently, many of the pieces are working on their own, though some things are still outstanding. Once I have all the parts I will begin the work of stitching it all together. I want to stress that while there has been a lot of work done, and we have made some really good and exciting progress, we are still a ways out from the launch of World Restructuring and Alliances.

One of the elements that currently is functional on the backend is the concept of WvW guilds and players being able to select a WvW guild. We test this using debug commands because none of the UI is in place, but the communication layers are there as well as the storage aspects of that data. This provides us with some of the data necessary for grouping people onto teams in the matchmaker.

Speaking of the matchmaker, I have completed a very basic implementation of a matchmaker that will churn through a huge list of players grouped by WvW guild and then place them on teams while keeping team sizes even. There is still a lot to do with this to get it to something that handles all the cases we want, but the early work and numbers look very promising.

We are taking a pragmatic approach to building and testing various parts of World Restructuring. We are already testing some of these systems in isolation using live data and the live environment. Using this method, we have already identified bugs and race conditions that would have been difficult to track down and fix with the whole system in place.

There has not been a ton of work on the player front end. We continue to focus on getting the core architecture solid so we can build the frontend on a working foundation. Once work is underway and we have something more tangible on the frontend, we can start discussing how we want to show off the new shinies to everyone.

F.A.Q.

What World Restructuring update would be complete without an FAQ section?

Is there an update on the Alliance (World Restructuring) system?
Yes, here it is! ;)

Can NA and EU players join the same Alliance and play WvW together?
No. The NA and EU still will be split and have their own teams. While it technically will be possible for a guild or alliance to have members in both NA and EU, the system places those players on teams in their own datacenter.

Will I need to buy an Expansion to get into an alliance?
No.

What about non-WvW groups that use their shard to influence map instance selection outside of WvW?
These players will be unaffected by this change. The system that chooses map instances does not consider shard.

How does the alliance system fix anything if people still will be able to transfer?
Currently, the plan is to change where we allow people to transfer, and to be more responsive to transfer restrictions for teams that are overpopulated. Some of the details of how this will work are in the original post about World Restructuring.

Will time zone imbalance still be an issue
It is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it.

Are only WvW play hours, not all play hours, considered in the population calculation?
Yes, we only use play hours in WvW when doing the population calculations.

How Many Alliances can be on a team?
There is not a clear answer here other than “however many there need to be.” The focus is on getting the population balanced and not specifically on limiting the number of alliances per team.

Are you planning to update the API?
Yes. There will need to be some updates to the API to support the new system. Beyond that, I do not have details.

Is repping a guild the same as selecting it as my WvW guild?
No, repping is independent from selecting your WvW guild. You
still
will be able to rep whatever guild you like in WvW without changing the world the system places you on.

What is next? What comes after World Restructuring?
Whoa now! We should not get ahead of ourselves. World Restructuring is only one of the irons we have in the fire so we are talking about things post World Restructuring. These are things we are not ready or able to discuss yet but we’ll update you when we have more things to relay.

We would appreciate a simple yes or no on alliances still being developed.

Dude hasn't commented on anything since March 2019, I doubt he's still here.

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