Why ppl say GW2 is dead? :|

[Gombie.3860]

Because it's cross server (megaserver) it would feel the same regardless of global player count due to scaling. And there is plenty of content for new players to get into. People just say it feels dead because players often drop the game after a while once they reach end-game.

[DKRathalos.9625]

@LilSpark.4567 said:Hello guys, i have a questions, i am new in the game, i play this game from 10 days and i play this game with the dlcs and my friends and other ppl tell me i waste time to play gw2 bcs is a dead game. Is that true?

Kind of declining hard because anet's latest release feels very disconnect to player. Dragon Response Mission didn't feel satisfied, PvP and WvW balance neglected.Other game start to release new stuffs (WoW with Shadowlands) or there is new game like Genshin Impact. Basically Anet lost touch with the community and don't know what to do with the game anymore so people start leaving to other game or revisit old game.

[Dreams.3128]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:lol. what number does the publisher look at, when granting that budget?...yeaThey look at trends within the game over years, and the current playerbase numbers.

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Actually, dungeons were very popular at the point they released Aetherpath. Sure, they were not being done by a majority of players, but enough players did them to make their further development worthwhile. It's just that Aetherpath was met with dislike. And Anet, instead of trying to reason why it was so, decided it meant all dungeon development should be cancelled.Again, popular among a relatively small group of people =/= successful, or actually popular. Stop trying to move goalposts. Also, Aetherpath was made using the common criticisms of the other dungeons to try to make them more popular. The fact that it failed is why they canned future dungeons. They already listened when making Aetherpath, the majority didn't care.They still had some hope people will go into raids. They simply wanted raids to succeed. But they never really tried to improve on raids at all, they just kept repeating the same stuff over and over again until they had to admit to themselves it wasn't working. And then they simply cancelled it.Except they very obviously did try to improve upon raids. Later raids made some changes to bosses and enemy encounter design to try to make them more palatable to the majority. The problem with raids is that the majority literally doesn't care about hard content like raids. The only way to make them more popular would be to water them down into Living World levels of difficulty, which defeats the point of raids in the first place.Content need not be run by a majority of the playerbase to be popular or worth developing further. Less than half the active players finish each LS story chapter. Does that mean LS should be cancelled, since majority is not even finishing it? Or should that rather mean devs should look into it and decide to improve things to get a better ratio next time around?Also, if you really want to go that way - the majority of GW2 players are no longer playing the game. According to your reasoning they should have cancelled this game even before HoT. Because a majority was no longer playing it.Content DOES need to be run by the majority to be worth developing for. If you are a game developer, and you ave a decision between putting more money toA. More living world content that the majority of your playerbase will playB. A raid maybe 15%-20% of the playerbase will playThe former will always win out since its a better investment of time and money. This is how games work in general. Hell, this is the cited reason in every MMO as to why the devs stopped doing X, Y, and Z, at some point. Also, thats a horrible argument. Devs use the active playerbase, not the number of people who bought the game.Repeating something over and over again without iterative attempts to fix the initial problems is not "successive attempts to make them more desirable". Also, the earlier strikes were doing quite fine. It's the Boneskinner that was a problem (and for more than one reason).Except there were changes made each time to try to make them more desirable. Also, its rather ironic you say earlier strikes were fine, when the whole point of strikes was that they were supposed prep people for raids, and early strikes were massively criticized by the raiders for being WAY too easy compared to raids. The whole point of the Boneskinner was that they had already thrown easier strikes at you, now its time for a harder one to bring it closer to raid difficulty. People complained because most people who play games don't want raid-like difficulty at all, which is why dungeons, fractals, and raids, all failed in the first place.You said "Its a sign that they stopping making things that weren't liked.". Dungeons were liked. They had to actively chase people away from them.Being liked by a small minority =/= being liked by the playerbase.That's not a failure. 15-20% is actually pretty good. In a MMORPG with a population of 1 mil that would be 150-200k players. That's some massive numbers. Numbers you'd really not want to lose.If you decided to abandon any part of the game as long as its popularity drops below 50%, you would end with nothing left. Lose 15% of your playerbase 4 times, and you're left with only 44% (a minority) of your original player number.You simply can't get the player counts for an AAA size MMORPG with very uniform playerbase that all plays only the same kind of content and all want the same things.That's actually really bad, and I've seen entire features stop getting development when even up to 1/3 of the playerbase used them, because that simply isn't enough.

You also make the blunder of equating people who play that kind of content with people who play the game ONLY for that kind of content. The majority of people who play things like dungeons, raids, strikes, etc. don't play the game simply for those things. And while they may be sad to see them go, they would still keep playing for the game's other content. You would only actually loose a very small % of that playerbase group because only a minority of the minority hinges their investment into a game based on one limited game type.

Problem is, the devs don't seem to know what the playerbase wants as well. They are just throwing stuff at the wall blindly, trying to find something that sticks. And, surprise surprise, the more they do it, the more new people decide to just not come in. Because, you know, they can see all the walls that are covered in kitten all over.Its ironic you say this when they very clearly do seem to know what the playerbase wants.

• They stopped making dungeons, raids, and to a lesser extent fractals and strikes, because the playerbase very clearly showed they didn't want them
• They kept making more living world/open world content because that is what most players wanted

Even when it comes to these Champions releases

• People have been asking for more LWS1 style content.
• But they also asked that it doesn't go away once over.
• They want bosses harder then normal open world bosses.
• But not near the difficulty of raid or strike mission bosses.
• They asked for older maps to get reused/new content added to them.
• But to not do so where its permanently alters the map like Tower of Nightmares did.
• They have also asked for something that actually feels like the dragons are attacking the world.
• But in a way that doesn't actually cause any permanent damage for the same reasons as the Tower of Nightmare situation I mentioned above.

And what did we get with Champions?

• LWS1 style content
• That doesn't go away once the story is over
• With bosses harder then normal open world bosses
• But not as hard as raid/strike bosses
• That uses older maps
• But doesn't change them permanently
• That involved the dragons actually attacking the world
• But in a way that doesn't actually cause any permanent damage to the world

The "unpopular" Champions Dragon Response Mission format is, quite literally, Anet doing everything people have been asking for on the forums for years. It is, quite literally, a bullet point "here is everything you've asked for" content format.

Funny how open world is the most popular, yet people ALL over the forums complain about open world. The problem is, is Anet bothering to listen to these forums because this is probably the most toxic thing I have witnessed in my years of mmos. If anything, Anet should be examining gameplay within the game itself because, let's be real, forum writers can never be unbiased without putting their much not needed opinion in. Facts is what matters, not opinion. Throwing numbers out means nothing without hard data. Saying FRACTALS or DUNGEONS was attracting a small percent of the population is a flat lie. That dungeon community was so big you never saw the same person twice. Never. In open world I see the same people over and over and over again. Stop being biased. And Anet needs to stop paying attention to people like this.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@LilSpark.4567 said:Hello guys, i have a questions, i am new in the game, i play this game from 10 days and i play this game with the dlcs and my friends and other ppl tell me i waste time to play gw2 bcs is a dead game. Is that true?

This is very often a blanket term used by veteran players who have played all the content to the point of nausea, or who have specific content wishes that have not been granted (although there are some cases where players have left in noticeable waves). More often than not, people who make these statements mean that the game seems to have nothing left to offer them and have not actually taken census on the general morale of the playerbase.

I am confident you will find hundreds, if not thousands of players to fight with in commander trains. You just need to use LFG to get where the action is. If you are not looking for large groups with LFG though, the world map will often only be lightly populated (which I think is a good thing to avoid making people who just want a quiet gaming session overwhelmed).

[StarPT.7431]

@LilSpark.4567 said:

@Tuco.2419 said:Coming from playing Everquest to GW2 and seeing the GW2 community talk about how the game is dying cracks me up.

For reference, Everquest has like, 4 or 5 developers working on it and put out a $35 expansion once a year that has about as much new content as a couple episodes in GW2.

The idea is that I'm new to the game and everyone tells me I'm playing a dead game..

I'm also a new player and just started to ignore people that say that, they are probably just salty about something I wont need to worry about in a near future and since I'm having a blast with this game, I'll stick with it.

[Jski.6180]

Reason ppl say this game is dead because anet takes forever to update there classes and why they do its often to "fix" the last update so the game meta never changes.

A kind of fake update as it where that a bot could do cheaper then anet paying ppl to do.

[Stormcrow.7513]

IDK with patches like this the game will become more dead :(

[keenedge.9675]

@LilSpark.4567 said:Thank you all for the answers! I was not expecting anything other than the fact that the game lives and will live a long time from now

Sad truth .. many many of the veteran players have done EVERYTHING. They don't play until fresh content is released. Then the maps are hopping for a couple of weeks.

[Astralporing.1957]

@StarPT.7431 said:I'm also a new player and just started to ignore people that say that, they are probably just salty about somethingLet's just say we have a better perspective about how the game is changing, and thus we can see the direction it is going. And it is... worrying.

For example, do you know that this game at some point had 4-5 million active players? And that the last time we've even heard any numbers we've been down to around 1 million actives (half of them f2p)? And that even this was a very long time ago, and since that time the numbers only went down?

At some point this game had enough devs to form multiple teams able to do different types of content in parallel. Now we're back to being able to do only one major project at a time.(hint: the recent slowdown in LS is due to them moving a lot of devs to expac team, and lack of game balance is because all balance devs are apparently also working on expac stuff).

This game prided itself on introducing new stuff and novel approaches to the content. What it also does is to abandon those approaches, leaving the whole game environment covered with strewn carcasses of past ideas they never bothered to support long-term.

And so on, and so on.

This game had so much good potential, and so bright a future... and all of this got wasted. Somehow, against all signs i still hope for this trend to change somehow, but it is really, really hard to not be cynical about it. Or not to realize those hopeful expectations will just end in (another) disappointment.

I wont need to worry about in a near future and since I'm having a blast with this game, I'll stick with it.Sure, you don't need to worry about near future. Just treat this game as a single-player one and you will be fine. If you are looking for an MMORPG though, those are more of a long-engagement games, so looking a bit further away than that is far more common in this genre.

[StarPT.7431]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@StarPT.7431 said:I'm also a new player and just started to ignore people that say that, they are probably just salty about somethingLet's just say we have a better perspective about how the game is changing, and thus we can see the direction it is going. And it is... worrying.

For example, do you know that this game at some point had 4-5 million active players? And that the last time we've even heard any numbers we've been down to around 1 million actives (half of them f2p)? And that even this was a very long time ago, and since that time the numbers only went down?

At some point this game had enough devs to form multiple teams able to do different types of content in parallel. Now we're back to being able to do only one major project at a time.(hint: the recent slowdown in LS is due to them moving a lot of devs to expac team, and lack of game balance is because all balance devs are apparently

also

working on expac stuff).

This game prided itself on introducing new stuff and novel approaches to the content. What it also does is to

abandon

those approaches, leaving the whole game environment covered with strewn carcasses of past ideas they never bothered to support long-term.

And so on, and so on.

This game had so much good potential, and so bright a future... and all of this got wasted. Somehow, against all signs i still hope for this trend to change somehow, but it is really, really hard to not be cynical about it. Or not to realize those hopeful expectations will just end in (another) disappointment.

I wont need to worry about in a near future and since I'm having a blast with this game, I'll stick with it.Sure, you don't need to worry about near future. Just treat this game as a single-player one and you will be fine. If you are looking for an MMORPG though, those are more of a long-engagement games, so looking a bit further away than that is far more common in this genre.

Gotta tell you that in terms of MMO I feel like a could have a long-engagement on this one that I haven't felt on others (BDO and ESO, for instance).Anyways, people have been complaining about the game dying for years as I can see from other threads and reddit posts and it still didn't die, so yhe..good for me xD

Also, I don't mean to be rude, but a lot of veterans love to shove their issues down new player's throats and that can discourage them from playing, contributing furthermore to killing the game.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:Content DOES need to be run by the majority to be worth developing for. If you are a game developer, and you ave a decision between putting more money to

No, the majority has absolutely nothing to do with it. Content needs to lead to invested players, that's the content worth developing for. Invested players are those that pay, free loaders that come online every month for 2 hours and then leave, do not pay anything. If you are a game developer you must develop the content that leads to more invested players -> more money, not the content that some kind of arbitrarily chosen "majority" plays. You have a very one sided view here, when the decision on what content to make is always a multi sided / complex one.

If content A was played by 90% of the population but content B was played by 10%, that doesn't make content A better. It all depends on how your numbers are given. Is the majority of that 90% players that logged, played it for 10 minutes, then quit? Meanwhile if that 10% is heavily invested players, they are more likely to lead to sales. 10 players playing every day for 8 hours every day are "worth" more than 10000 players that play 10 minutes every month. Lose on of the former and you will feel it, lose one of the latter and nobody would care.

[Lucio.4190]

I've actually never had any problem with a map being empty, except for when I actually should be asleep. Don't know if any game is crowded 24/7..? Five players taking on the Octovine could be a little difficult, but I think that's normal at 4 am.. on a workday?Sending a message to Map may start a fun conversation. Joining a Guild will also introduce you to other players.My opinion is that a game is not dead until you try to login and get a "This service has been taken offline".

I love the story and I love how the game allows you to play both solo and with friends. The Guild Wars community is also very helpful.Dead? Not even close.Lonely? Sometimes, but only at nights when I'm supposed to be asleep.Fun? Even when playing the chapter for the second and the third time. There's always a some achievement you missed or goal to strive for, if you challenge yourself.

[sitarskee.5738]

MMORPGs are slowly dying - true. GW2 is dying - false.

[Ajji.6031]

I love that this game basically lets me play solo for the majority of what I need. So I don't really notice whether there are other players or not.

Unfortunately, it still makes me team up for certain things like bounties for specialization collections. That's when I realize this game does feel dead. NO ONE ever replies or expresses interest. When I watch map chat for people to call out bounties, no one ever does. I keep an eye on LFG for bounty groups, I never see one forming. The only chance I have is to hope for a Daily Bounty on the map I need. Half the game population seems to show up then.

And yes, I am ranting. It's been a week since I tried to get a bounty for ONE specialization, let alone for all of my characters.

[scorekeeper.6524]

It’s not dead technically. But it is outdated and stagnant.

[Chyanne Waters.8719]

The reason people say any game is dead is they don't want you to play it, and maybe play theirs. New players are kinda lucky in GW2 they can get one expansion get the entire game minus the living story, but future living story episodes are free as long as you log in while active. I paid $100 for the core game, $100 for HoT, and $80 for PoF.With the next expansion coming up probably pay $80 for that too. I always get the ultra edition. I'm hoping that Anet will give it free to me and other players for our loyalty, but if not I will be ready.

[tiagotatico.6304]

@LilSpark.4567 said:Hello guys, i have a questions, i am new in the game, i play this game from 10 days and i play this game with the dlcs and my friends and other ppl tell me i waste time to play gw2 bcs is a dead game. Is that true?

It is not, recently i have been doing map completation and i saw a lot of players on low level zones, when you are going to mid level zones, 30-70 you wont see much people because you can pretty much up to 80 with dungeons and cooking after 30, dont let those people mislead you, guild wars 2 is one of the five or three more played mmorpg game, if you go to wow, FF14, ESO, you will se the same comment, in my experience, by playing for a year, i actually see the number os players incresease a lot, may be because of covid, but still this should tell something

[lare.5129]

@Chyanne Waters.8719 said:The reason people say any game is dead is they don't want you to play it, and maybe play theirs.yes, I in past few years use what that words to attract people from l2 to wow :)))) It was fun

As for me, when I can compare, answer is easy visible. GW2 currently best mmo game.

[uberkingkong.8041]

Game is over 7 years old, outdated. If you aint #1 you last. Even though its like #3 or #4, its last to everyone else. Last means dead.

This game the thing going well for it, is the mini games.Thats why I keep promoting racing, I like to do it, seems like its fading away, but its still there, still hope. Not gonna stop trying until we get Daily Automated Racing Tournaments. Yep, you betcha the reward for Monthly Automated Racing Tournament I envision is JUST LIKE PvP1st is 500 gold2nd is 400 goldIts got its racing currencyA nice improvement would be a racing finisher as in cross the line, do something cool like finishing a downed opponent.

I'm as excited for racing as some people are for other minigames like SAB.

[kharmin.7683]

1st is 500 gold? Yeah, I don't think that would ever happen.

Good luck.

[SAROMON.9158]

The game is far from dead. The community mostly consist of young (18+) and adult people. The community is one of a kind. I have never seen such a community in other MMORPG. The community is making this game such a great experience! This game will live for many more years!

[uberkingkong.8041]

@kharmin.7683 said:1st is 500 gold? Yeah, I don't think that would ever happen.

Good luck.

You think you can beat really good PvP'ers and you only got one shot a month at 500 gold?

What about really good racers, and you only got one shot a month at 500 gold?

The really good pvper just keeps on collecting, a really good roller beetle should do just the same.

It aint easy.

Some people end up ragequitting on races, just like PvP. It aint easy.

The best deserve a reward.

This game aint dead because of racing to me, just like Final Fantasy X. Its the best because Blitzball. Look what they did Final Fantasy X2, Blitzball is just watching computer now. You wonder why Final Fantasy isn't really a good singleplayer game anymore? they don't realize the minigames in Final Fantasy was what made it, not just the chocobo minigame, I liked their card game, and I really liked Blitzball.

RPG isn't all about PvP you know, the minigames are what makes some of the really good. Right now, Racing is whats going good for GW2, its just they don't give good rewards, its not competitive, You got 1st place? Same reward. The idea is GREAT, but they making it like PvP hotjoins now, its useless thing to do over and over, hence nobody even does it anymore...... BUT ITS REALLY FUN. Just don't do it because.... They aint reinforcing it.

So you damn right 500 gold just like PvP monthly AT 500 gold.People do that tournament if it wasnt worth it?AT PvP would be dead as Racing right now.

Just like Racing would be POPULAR yet MORE POPULAR than PvP if it was reinforced with PvP incentives, had a reward track and so on.

Racing, people would probably do it all night OVER WvW and PvP if it had a reward track. PvP and WvW would become ghost towns, just like how EoTM became a ghost town once it was not reinforced anymore.

EoTM very fun = 3+ PACKED servers ALWAYSPvP 8v8 hotjoins very fun = 30+ PACKED 8v8 hotjoins ALWAYS

They stripped rewards from it

GHOST TOWNS = EoTM and 8v8 hotjoinsWent from 30+ hotjoins FULL to GHOST TOWNWent from 3+ FULL WvW EoTM to GHOST TOWN

Racing? No difference, have to reinforce it.Just like they reinforce AT with 500 gold, 5 gold, etc.

Racing would trump both of em tbh

Just give racing a reward track, you'll see. with similar time to complete to PvP and WvWJust give racing AT, you'll see. with similar rewards to PvP

Thats why GW2 aint dead, they see game about to die, they bring in racing. They bring in SAB, they bring in something other games don't do.If it was just zones, spells, quests, levels. This game would been long dead to World of Warcraft by now.

PvP aint saving this game, nor is WvW. I don't come back because of those 2.If it still had hotjoin, yes. (You'd have to reinforce HOTJOINS to make it good again. As in rewards just as good as ranked (Ranked is fake competitve, people just play it because best reward not because of competition, only few are doing it for competition)WvW wise, ESO does it better, if I'm coming for WvW its ESO.

[BrotherBelial.3094]

The games main problem at this point, is it has a lot of "end game" maps. this leads to the illusion of the game being dead. the player base is spread out a lot. Add to that the "dead content" like dungeons, that got there rewards nerfed into the ground so people would play fractals over them. Basically if you're new to the game there's a lot of content you'll probably miss out on. Temple events in Orr, map meta events getting completed in the living world maps, HoT and PoF,(the vast majority fail now in my experience as there is never enough people to do them) also dungeons as I've already said.

[Xoilen.9043]

The game literally hit it's peak ALLTIME players May 2021, I know I'm late but the game is still FAR from dead.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

is there a forum achievement for necroing old threads? If there is one, pls give that achievement to me too... 😁 🥴