Core Engi build

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

So I used to run engi a lot in vanilla, specifically a celestial bomb kit build. I don't have much interest in scrapper or holo so would prefer to run either a celestial core build or something similar to the comeback king build from metabattle; https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Comeback_King_Engie_Core_Spec.

Is this a decent build still? What do you guys run for core engi and why?

[Darrack.4069]

I don't have much experience of Condi builds but i mained an Engi since release and recently returned to the game.I used to run riffle and turrets as most did but for a change i did the scrapper spec.

Core is good and still holds a lot of decent skills and whilst i fully back anyone wanting to play how they want i cant recommend Scrapper enough.You can still play core (i hated the hammer to start with) and use riffle/pistol etc but Scrapper is like CoreV2, it gives you so much more on top, more survivability (barriers), some decent speed buffs and a 'get out of jail free card' with sneak gyro.

I hate Holo - its not my style but for someone who loved Core, scrapper is just the icing on the cake.

Again not trying yo change your mind but you can still have the core 'feel' with extra's.

Be Safe

[Shroud.2307]

I use this.

You can drop Grenade Kit and replace it with Elixir B, then swap out Grenadier for Short Fuse. Or you can use Elixir C or what ever really, but I find B to be the best choice for the Boons it grants.

It's extremely durable, has very good sustained Condition cleanse, good resustain, good damage and high burst potential. It has very low mobility, it is very weak to pre-combat burst or when Protection is not active, it struggles with high Condition pressure and is hard countered by pretty much any Necro build.

I've been using that build for quite some time and have had a lot of success with it. I made it a while back but only recently started using Grenade Kit and have found it to be the missing piece to the puzzle because it adds the extra bit of damage I needed for the build to have proper killing power.

Anyway if you give it a try, let me know.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:hard countered by pretty much any Necro build.Any build relying on boons is hard countered by necros but then again if you dont take elixir c to counter the condi bomb and elixir x (well moa) to counter shroud you are also gimping yourself vs necros so there's that.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Awesome, thanks for the replies. I made the build I mentioned earlier with a trailblazer/rabid mix and it works pretty nicely with rocket boots to kite. I will try out scrapper (I guess I'll drop tools, as sneak gyro and hammer leaps should cover the mobility from rocket boots) and SpellOfIniquity's build next :)

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:hard countered by pretty much any Necro build.Any build relying on boons is hard countered by necros but then again if you dont take elixir c to counter the condi bomb and elixir x (well moa) to counter shroud you are also gimping yourself vs necros so there's that.

The build I was testing had AED and the cleanse from the supply crate toolbelt skill, that plus a cleansing sigil seemed like enough cleanse vs a sustain soulbeast and a condi druid last night (seperate fights). The issue I had was I'm not used to using CC to lock down the opponent anymore, so I could get him to half health then had to kite out and heal which gave him opportunity to recover. I don't want to give up rocket boots for C (thief main, I like the mobility) but I will see how it goes.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:so I could get him to half health then had to kite out and heal which gave him opportunity to recover.Yep, that's where elixir X can win the fight, heh. But it really depends on the skill of the enemy at that point though and how well their build counters yours. I've met condi druids where no amount of my condi work and they eventually sustain me down due to their fast and constant application from shortbow. It's often a slugfest to the death and whoever gets the first +1 win.

Here's the last clips I made on my tools/alchemy/firearms based core engie. Just random though, no theme (and you can see what I describe above happen in a 1v3 where I can kill 2 of them but not the condi mesmer).

[EUmad.7645]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:so I could get him to half health then had to kite out and heal which gave him opportunity to recover.Yep, that's where elixir X can win the fight, heh. But it really depends on the skill of the enemy at that point though and how well their build counters yours. I've met condi druids where no amount of my condi work and they eventually sustain me down due to their fast and constant application from shortbow. It's often a slugfest to the death and whoever gets the first +1 win.

Here's the last clips I made on my tools/alchemy/firearms based core engie. Just random though, no theme (and you can see what I describe above happen in a 1v3 where I can kill 2 of them but not the condi mesmer).

Don't u miss a bit of damage ? I play something similar but against for examples ele is really hard ( i win only if i am luck with elixir X or sometime moa )

[Dawdler.8521]

@EUmad.7645 said:Don't u miss a bit of damage ? I play something similar but against for examples ele is really hard ( i win only if i am luck with elixir X or sometime moa )Because many eles run anti-range and anti-condi its the type of build that can hardcounter - fairly unsurprisingly - a ranged condi build. Core lf regen necros are also very difficult targets due to them healing on your condi. But obviously a dire/trailblazer build is gonna be sustain, not dps.

[Shroud.2307]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:hard countered by pretty much any Necro build.Any build relying on boons is hard countered by necros but then again if you dont take elixir c to counter the condi bomb and elixir x (well moa) to counter shroud you are also gimping yourself vs necros so there's that.

I have 4 variants to the build I shared and still play with one of them also using Toolkit and X (that I've linked below). Because your build is Condition it is more viable than mine as Power, but both have very low sustained damage and only a moderate burst. Half the fights you take will be determined by whether or not you land Moa which is why I reserve the Toolkit + X version for groups and trolling.I feel you are gimping yourself by relying on a singular skill to secure 50%> of the fights you take.

Let's just say both of our builds are mediocre but have their strengths and call it even, lol.It took a long time before I found and settled on another core Engi build after the February patch. I tried a lot of different things and I'm 110% confident that the one I'm using with mostly Elixirs is versatile enough to win most fights, whether it's by sheer attrition or by punishing aggression. I also have multiple variants of the same build for different purposes;

Version 2- roaming + team fight capable, higher burst, similar sustained damage. Version 3- weak roamer/good for zerg surfing, high sustained damage but risky, worse cleanse.* Version 4- weak roamer/weak team fighter, good for memeing + hard sniping people in groups, good for general trolling.

Please don't take offense to any of this though because I also enjoy playing highly custom builds, I just want them to be strong enough to "compete", meaning the build can either stalemate or win against meta builds even if it's an uphill battle. Having tried something near identical to what you use, I don't feel it quite fits that criteria because it is too reliant on 2 skills, Blowtorch and Moa, to win most of its fights.With that said, it can also completely delete people if you do land Moa, and it can do so to pretty much anything you encounter if you do it properly.

[EUmad.7645]

Because many eles run anti-range and anti-condi its the type of build that can hardcounter - fairly unsurprisingly - a ranged condi build. Core lf regen necros are also very difficult targets due to them healing on your condi. But obviously a dire/trailblazer build is gonna be sustain, not dps.

I use rabid

[Dawdler.8521]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I feel you are gimping yourself by relying on a singular skill to secure 50%> of the fights you take.Lol it is nowhere near that percentage. The clips I posted obviously have some bias for moments I found fun.

Much of the time I use moa just because I can, not because I need. Even then for every fight I use moa there is 10+ where I dont.

Besides, its no difference from other skills. Are warriors gimping themselves using rampage? Are rangers gimping themselves using entagle? Are heralds gimping themselves using chaotic release? Are guardians gimping themselves using renewed focus? Etc and so on.

[Shroud.2307]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I feel you are gimping yourself by relying on a singular skill to secure 50%> of the fights you take.Lol it is nowhere near that percentage. The clips I posted obviously have

some bias

for moments I found fun.

Much of the time I use moa just because I

can

, not because I need. Even then for every fight I use moa there is 10+ where I dont.

Besides, its no difference from other skills. Are warriors gimping themselves using rampage? Are rangers gimping themselves using entagle? Are heralds gimping themselves using chaotic release? Are guardians gimping themselves using renewed focus? Etc and so on.

I entirely disagree with that logic and I'm not going to write a paragraph about it to be dismissed when I already gave a valid reason.

But again, if you enjoy it that's great. Judging by the video I'm assuming the quality of players you face isn't very high, so it makes sense that you have more success than what I say.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I feel you are gimping yourself by relying on a singular skill to secure 50%> of the fights you take.Lol it is nowhere near that percentage. The clips I posted obviously have

some bias

for moments I found fun.

Much of the time I use moa just because I

can

, not because I need. Even then for every fight I use moa there is 10+ where I dont.

Besides, its no difference from other skills. Are warriors gimping themselves using rampage? Are rangers gimping themselves using entagle? Are heralds gimping themselves using chaotic release? Are guardians gimping themselves using renewed focus? Etc and so on.

I entirely disagree with that logic and I'm not going to write a paragraph about it to be dismissed when I already gave a valid reason.

But again, if you enjoy it that's great. Judging by the video I'm assuming the quality of players you face isn't very high, so it makes sense that you have more success than what I say.Ah the standard reply of "well you're not fighting very good enemies" on the basis of watching 0.01% of a couple months playtime.

I couldnt tell, because I rarely meet enemies that repeatedly kill me by pure skill. Most that do are carried by their class and rely heavily on being one trick ponies. Weird that.

But hey if you think moa stands apart as the main reason fights are won, thats an admittance its working. Ha!

[schloumou.3982]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Ah the standard reply of "well you're not fighting very good enemies" on the basis of watching 0.01% of a couple months playtime.

Thing is, there is truth to it, that lies in the build itself. Condi engi has a to low application rate of threatening condis to be a viable dueler/roamer. Every decent player just hardcounters it by running cleansing sigil and pressure/cc you agressive.

I couldnt tell, because I rarely meet enemies that repeatedly kill me by pure skill. Most that do are carried by their class and rely heavily on being one trick ponies. Weird that.

This is basically the problem I described above. When the build is to easily countered, you have to consider that maybe you are the one trick pony, that relies to much on people not cleansing/avoiding pistol 4.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"schloumou.3982" said:Thing is, there is truth to it, that lies in the build itself. Condi engi has a to low application rate of threatening condis to be a viable dueler/roamer. Every decent player just hardcounters it by running cleansing sigil and pressure/cc you agressive.Yet I still do fine against meta roamers for some reason. Can I beat all players I meet? No, that would be ridiculous regardless of any skill or build they are purported to have.

Videos can be amusing things. I remember this one time when someone posted a roaming video of a warrior that thundered in with arcing slice 1v4 and downed 3 (this was pre power nerf), the epitome of skill is teh deeps of course. It was cut right on him killing them. Without really looking closer at the video, I posted another where my group met a warrior that did arcing slice and downed 3 in our 4 man group but then he failed to kill me 1v1 and he eventually died so I noted that it was only OP if people was foolish enough to stack.

Now that was damn funny when I realized what just happened.

Sustain is all a condi build is about - even when you're fighting people that make it feel like paper. I dont consider 1v1 to be the ultimate be all end all ability for a roamer. I run engineer due to the wide range of tools I get to accomplish my task. Builds I cannot kill generally cant kill me either and for the builds that do kill me I often know that I can do better and kill them, not that they are so skilled I cant or run a specific build. But as I dont seek out 1v1, I rarely capture them. I do have a repeat one vs a power holo that made trailblazers feel like paper (and I make tons of mistakes against). Or a soulbeast that tried to "pressure" me:

But hey if you think it's hardmode to play core engie, I'll take it. Main it every day for hours on end baby.

[Shroud.2307]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"schloumou.3982" said:Yet I still do fine against meta roamers for some reason. Can I beat all players I meet? No, that would be ridiculous regardless of any skill or build they are purported to have.

The point he and I are both making is that you are saying not taking Moa is a handicap when what it actually is is a gimmick. Like Gunflame Berserkers with Arms + Signets, it has potential to one shot but is otherwise very easily shut down because it has poor defenses. Most fights will not be in its favor whether team fight or 1v1. Same idea with core Engi and Moa. It isn't flexible.

You're better off taking Supply Crate because it will give you; a Smoke field for Stealth, a Cleanse (x3) on drop, a Water field on drop, it will stun your target(s), and F5 is a huge Cleanse.Elixir X gives you some mobility/CC which is usually reserved for running away/kiting, and Moa to meme people.

I feel like you misunderstand me, or maybe I misunderstand the tone of your responses, but I'm not saying "don't play it" or that I don't believe you can beat people with it. I'm just saying Moa isn't as good as you're saying it is and that really isn't an opinion.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I'm just saying Moa isn't as good as you're saying it is and that really isn't an opinion.And I'm saying that supply drop isnt as good as you're saying and thats not really an opinion either. Oh I've fought engies when they where using supply drop against me too. Its been utterly useless for them every single time because I just walk away - I literally ignore the turrets. Meanwhile, a tornado can knock people around like ragdolls allowing my group to pump in damage and get downs (cleanse may be common, multiple stunbreaks arent), while a berserker give me the hp and stab to stomp (and leap + stuns to set up for blowtorch). Both are for offensive and defense use, not just kiting or running away. Thats a ridicculous statement.

Also if you do use it kite/run away... mobility is a roamers mantra. Turrets are, unsurprisingly, not.

[Shroud.2307]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I'm just saying Moa isn't as good as you're saying it is and that really isn't an opinion.And I'm saying that supply drop isnt as good as you're saying and thats not really an opinion either. Oh I've fought engies when they where using supply drop against me too. Its been utterly useless for them every single time because I just walk away - I literally ignore the turrets. Meanwhile, a tornado can knock people around like ragdolls allowing my group to pump in damage and get downs (cleanse may be common, multiple stunbreaks arent), while a berserker give me the hp and stab to stomp (and leap + stuns to set up for blowtorch). Both are for offensive and defense use, not just kiting or running away. Thats a ridicculous statement.

Also if you

do

use it kite/run away... mobility is a roamers mantra. Turrets are, unsurprisingly, not.

And this is why I said I didn't want to write a paragraph for it to be dismissed.