Raids for not so good players

[Lilwil.6529]

Do you think there will be away for less talented players to experience the stories of the raids?

I've tried alot to get to experience the raid story, but I'm just not good enough to make it through one. I've been playing since GW1 and feel like I'm missing out on some key lore for the game just because i can't. The only way I've managed to experience the first raid was by paying gold to a player. I would not expert rewards for it (legendary armor) the Lore would be enough. I just want to play the story off them but at a difficulty level I can manage.

[vier.1327]

We have talked about this a lot. I also would like to have a solo mode with no reward, just for fun and the story.

But the truth is that Arenanet has abandoned raids as much as dungeons.

They thought something like this:

Raids = fun.

What really happened:

Gw2 player + raids = Elitism, META addiction and selling runs.

Arenanet does not like it, so no more raids.

I have tried raids, and are fun doing it with guild mates. You lose the hope for humanity in a few pug pulls.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@vier.1327 said:What really happened:

Gw2 player + raids = Elitism, META addiction and selling runs.

Arenanet does not like it, so no more raids.

That’s not why.

[Jilora.9524]

I'm sure someone has youtubed them if it's only for lore. They aren't going to go back and add difficulty settings for us lesser players

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

My hopes rest on the power-creep at the moment. If they continue this madness a little longer, we might be able to run a few raids with the same difficulty as we run dungeons at the moment. Without a dedicated raid-team, it is only a matter of time till the difficulty gets downgraded.

A story-mode without rewards would be great. Like the story-mode Dungeons, no badges. But without that above mentioned raid-team, it may not happen at all.

DRM look very promising. Content that can be done solo, in groups or in a public anonymous mode. Different rewards depending on the difficulty-selection, but easy story-access. I hope after Raids & Strikemissions, this one will prevail.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:My hopes rest on the power-creep at the moment. If they continue this madness a little longer, we might be able to run a few raids with the same difficulty as we run dungeons at the moment. Without a dedicated raid-team, it is only a matter of time till the difficulty gets downgraded.

A story-mode without rewards would be great. Like the story-mode Dungeons, no badges. But without that above mentioned raid-team, it may not happen at all.

DRM look very promising. Content that can be done solo, in groups or in a public anonymous mode. Different rewards depending on the difficulty-selection, but easy story-access. I hope after Raids & Strikemissions, this one will prevail. But looking at the LFG, they are already working on that. "Ensuring quality-standards" in DRM feels like sending the Ginyu Force to stop a toddler with a water-gun.

All this talk about power creep sounds convincing...

...until you realize that back in the day we could finish the burrows in AC P3 by casting a single skill at 0 might.

[mercury ranique.2170]

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:My hopes rest on the power-creep at the moment. If they continue this madness a little longer, we might be able to run a few raids with the same difficulty as we run dungeons at the moment. Without a dedicated raid-team, it is only a matter of time till the difficulty gets downgraded.

A story-mode without rewards would be great. Like the story-mode Dungeons, no badges. But without that above mentioned raid-team, it may not happen at all.

DRM look very promising. Content that can be done solo, in groups or in a public anonymous mode. Different rewards depending on the difficulty-selection, but easy story-access. I hope after Raids & Strikemissions, this one will prevail.

Story mode dungeons are very different as what the OP is aksing for. He wants to experience the story in the current Raids. Story mode dungeons tell a different story then the explorable path story tells.

I also would like to state that stories locked behind content and content locked behind story is a bad thing in general. So having other ways to experience the story would be very much welcome.

[Sobx.1758]

@Lilwil.6529 said:Do you think there will be away for less talented players to experience the stories of the raids?

Yes, you can do it at any given moment through the magic of youtube.

[vier.1327]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lilwil.6529 said:Do you think there will be away for less talented players to experience the stories of the raids?

Yes, you can do it at any given moment through the magic of youtube.

Or the magic of your credit card...

[Cyndercat.7615]

They are unlikely to commit any resources to a mode that most players would only experience once. You would need to find a way to make the content repayable to make it worthwhile. Particularly now when resources are stretched so thin they cant even produce living world content at the standard they used to.

Most of the story in raids is told through lore books anyway, which you don't need to fight any bosses for.

[WindBlade.8749]

Raids are fun because they are not braindead, so powercreep or nerf will be a no go,

Why not a story mode, opposed to what some people think, raids are not abbandonned like dungeons but just on an hold like close to every others contents of the game since it's a bit fanky in aenet theses days, they can't even put story anymore, (their editor ncsoft played a part in this sad situation).

[Teratus.2859]

Nah, i've argued quite a lot for something like this but I think the damage has already been done at this point.

Too many people have been turned off raiding and there just isn't enough regularly trying to get more casual groups together now.I've tried a good few times and never managed to be able to get more than 3 other people to join me at any given time.

I expect without Anet stepping in and making some kind of rewardless easy mode for those who just want the story side of it most players are not going to come back and give it another shot.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:For the love of god can we stop pushing this lie and beating a dead horse. This is so visibly disgusting now.

So far, your side has not come up with any serious explanation at all. We know they suddenly stopped with raids, not bothering to tell us. Then started with the development of Strike Missions, which were designed to introduce players into raids - knowing that there would be no further wings. Now they stopped with the Strike Missions, heading to DRM. There is obviously a drastic drop in difficulty, skill and coordination requirement with every step. Making the instanced content easier to access for players which a lesser focus on high performance gameplay. The current step even moved away from the group-requirement.

Now I am eager to listen to the truth, from a raider perspective. What is the true reason behind this development? Why did they stop with raids? Why did they stop with Strike Missions?

[kharmin.7683]

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:For the love of god can we stop pushing this lie and beating a dead horse. This is so visibly disgusting now.

So far, your side has not come up with any serious explanation at all. We know they suddenly stopped with raids, not bothering to tell us. Then started with the development of Strike Missions, which were designed to introduce players into raids - knowing that there would be no further wings. Now they stopped with the Strike Missions, heading to DRM. There is obviously a drastic drop in difficulty, skill and coordination requirement with every step. Making the instanced content easier to access for players which a lesser focus on high performance gameplay. The current step even moved away from the group-requirement.

Now I am eager to listen to the truth, from a raider perspective. What is the true reason behind this development? Why did they stop with raids? Why did they stop with Strike Missions?

Should start a new thread for that topic rather than hijack this one. ;)

[Turin.6921]

@"Lilwil.6529" said:Do you think there will be away for less talented players to experience the stories of the raids?

I've tried alot to get to experience the raid story, but I'm just not good enough to make it through one. I've been playing since GW1 and feel like I'm missing out on some key lore for the game just because i can't. The only way I've managed to experience the first raid was by paying gold to a player. I would not expert rewards for it (legendary armor) the Lore would be enough. I just want to play the story off them but at a difficulty level I can manage.

For just a simple kill the skill ceiling is incredibly low for most raid wings (unless you suffer from specific disability that does not allow you do play normally which then of course its a different situation). Also what do you mean you are not good enough to make it through one? There are 10 people in the squad. It not just a single person thing. You can get most kills with a surprising amount of low performance and mistakes. Just as long as you know what you expect from the encounter (so basically some home work). It does not really require any "talent"

Also you are not really missing out on anything. Raid stories are nice but fairly simple, and there is not that much of a story in them. The whole point is the boss fights and that is what makes the story feel grand. But the actual stories are just small spin offs. You can summarize them in 5 minutes. You can just watch a recap and you get the same effect.

That being said what makes you think you are not "talented" enough to finish a raid? It is just a matter of focus really and a bit of time investment.

[Fueki.4753]

People have been asking for easy and/or normal modes for raids for years now.

As far as I am aware, Arenanet hasn't even done as little as to acknowledge the existence of these wishes.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

raids for kids who can't read good.

anyone?

[Excursion.9752]

I don't see this happening. Your best bet is to go to youtube search GW2 Raid Lore and watch everything raid related that WoodenPotatoes has posted on the subject. To be honest you probably would get more out of that than actually playing through the wings yourself.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Lilwil.6529" said:Do you think there will be away for less talented players to experience the stories of the raids?

I've tried alot to get to experience the raid story, but I'm just not good enough to make it through one. I've been playing since GW1 and feel like I'm missing out on some key lore for the game just because i can't. The only way I've managed to experience the first raid was by paying gold to a player. I would not expert rewards for it (legendary armor) the Lore would be enough. I just want to play the story off them but at a difficulty level I can manage.

One night a friend of mine said "hey Mind, let's do a raid". We had 5 guildies of which I was the only one with any raid experience (I had a whopping 12 LI at the time).He and two of the other members of the guild showed up in their WvW gear and builds.Then we put up an LFG saying "We have no clue what we are doing....come raid with us".15 minutes later we had 10 people.30 mins after that we killed Cairn.

How much easier does it have to be?

[Linken.6345]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Lilwil.6529" said:Do you think there will be away for less talented players to experience the stories of the raids?

I've tried alot to get to experience the raid story, but I'm just not good enough to make it through one. I've been playing since GW1 and feel like I'm missing out on some key lore for the game just because i can't. The only way I've managed to experience the first raid was by paying gold to a player. I would not expert rewards for it (legendary armor) the Lore would be enough. I just want to play the story off them but at a difficulty level I can manage.

One night a friend of mine said "hey Mind, let's do a raid". We had 5 guildies of which I was the only one with any raid experience (I had a whopping 12 LI at the time).

He and two of the other members of the guild showed up in their WvW gear and builds.

Then we put up an LFG saying "We have no clue what we are doing....come raid with us".15 minutes later we had 10 people.30 mins after that we killed Cairn.

How much easier does it have to be?

Well according to some the 45 mins to get group together and kill is to much.30 second group form and 8mins kill might even be to long.

They seem to want it like world bosses on a timer and just show up wack it afew times and collect loot.

[Dante.1508]

@Lilwil.6529 said:Do you think there will be away for less talented players to experience the stories of the raids?

I've tried alot to get to experience the raid story, but I'm just not good enough to make it through one. I've been playing since GW1 and feel like I'm missing out on some key lore for the game just because i can't. The only way I've managed to experience the first raid was by paying gold to a player. I would not expert rewards for it (legendary armor) the Lore would be enough. I just want to play the story off them but at a difficulty level I can manage.

Its not really the dungeons its the players playing the dungeons that make it hard.. All these crazy ? requirements and elitist behaviour doesn't make for a fun system. I cannot see Anet changing it now.. Even strikes became toxic fests.

[lare.5129]

@Lilwil.6529 said:Do you think there will be away for less talented players to experience the stories of the raids?do raids ONLY whit yours guild. It solve any problems for less talented players.

@vier.1327 said:Arenanet does not like it, so no more raids.You have wrong info. I have info that we will get one more wing nearest time.

But the truth is that Arenanet has abandoned raids as much as dungeons.from last 6 weeks I kill one raid boss, and from last 6 weeks I complete aprox 80 dungeons .. Content works, profitable, fun and very good.

@"Dante.1508" said:All these crazy ? requirements and elitist behaviour doesn't make for a fun system.make you own squad or raid inside guild. Don't look from side. This is not problem.

I cannot see Anet changing it now.. Even strikes became toxic fests.strike toxic if boneskiner included, but if it 3 strikes run (shiver, twins, ..) it is chill and not toxic.So same "if boneskiner included" I prefer do ONLY whit guild.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:One night a friend of mine said "hey Mind, let's do a raid". We had 5 guildies of which I was the only one with any raid experience (I had a whopping 12 LI at the time).He and two of the other members of the guild showed up in their WvW gear and builds.Then we put up an LFG saying "We have no clue what we are doing....come raid with us".15 minutes later we had 10 people.30 mins after that we killed Cairn.

How much easier does it have to be?And it took my static 2 months of daily attempts to kill VG for the first time.Anecdotal evidence FTW.

Also, saw groups like that with Cairn a few times (although they generally don't say in LFG that they have no idea). It always ends the same - with the whole guild ending up dead in the first few minutes, and kill getting carried by the pugged help. Which may be willing to do so, but may be also way less forgiving.

Sure, you can get a kill this way, but notice how the availability of that option is completely out of your hands. And is definitely not something you can count on every boss (try doing Dhuum the same way you did Cairn, and you will see the problem).

[Cyninja.2954]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:One night a friend of mine said "hey Mind, let's do a raid". We had 5 guildies of which I was the only one with any raid experience (I had a whopping 12 LI at the time).

He and two of the other members of the guild showed up in their WvW gear and builds.

Then we put up an LFG saying "We have no clue what we are doing....come raid with us".15 minutes later we had 10 people.30 mins after that we killed Cairn.

How much easier does it have to be?And it took my static 2 months of daily attempts to kill VG for the first time.Anecdotal evidence FTW.

Also, saw groups like that with Cairn a few times (although they generally don't say in LFG that they have no idea). It always ends the same - with the whole guild ending up dead in the first few minutes, and kill getting carried by the pugged help. Which may be willing to do so, but may be also way less forgiving.

Sure, you can get a kill this way, but notice how the availability of that option is completely out of your hands. And is definitely not something you can count on

every

boss (try doing Dhuum the same way you did Cairn, and you will see the problem).

So your saying you did not have fun for 2 months playing together with others?

Just think about this for a minute, unrelated to how hard or easy content might be, you are essentially complaining about having an activity to do with your guild on a daily basis for 2 months (not really complaining but giving as example I guess).

Even IF raids are hard, wouldn't having that kind of group content be a good thing? You know for having people play the game long term?

[Fueki.4753]

@Cyninja.2954 said:Even IF raids are hard, wouldn't having that kind of group content be a good thing? You know for having people play the game long term?

What the point of spending 10% to 15% of your resources on content less than 1% of the player will ever attempt?Those resources would better be spent on content that more people might play.