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@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available.

There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense.Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag.The commander not murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake.The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players.The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.

Those are not the Destroyers from Ember Bay. Primordus can no longer create new Destroyers that also harbor the dead Elder Dragons' abilities, because Aurene restored the balance (so no more crossover abilities).

That doesn't seem to make sense either. Aurene had to eat the errant magic inside kralk, she didn't just cause it to no longer be there. She hasn't done the same to Jormag or Primordus. How did she take the power that we know Primordus, consumed? Did I miss something?

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available.

There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense.Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag.The commander
not
murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake.The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players.The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning.

And Crecia being Blood Imperator just like that.

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@wolfyrik.2017 said:

That doesn't seem to make sense either. Aurene had to eat the errant magic inside kralk, she didn't just cause it to no longer be there. She hasn't done the same to Jormag or Primordus. How did she take the power that we know Primordus, consumed? Did I miss something?

I think we can handwave this as a side effect of Taimi's machine being used to drain magic from both Primordus and Jormag back when Balthazar was after them to gain more power. The power drained first was likely the more unfamiliar/alien magics from the other dragons. As they've rebuilt their power, it's been THEIR power and not the stolen/borrowed power they had before.

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@Palador.2170 said:

@"wolfyrik.2017" said:

That doesn't seem to make sense either. Aurene had to eat the errant magic inside kralk, she didn't just cause it to no longer be there. She hasn't done the same to Jormag or Primordus. How did she take the power that we know Primordus, consumed? Did I miss something?

I think we can handwave this as a side effect of Taimi's machine being used to drain magic from both Primordus and Jormag back when Balthazar was after them to gain more power. The power drained first was likely the more unfamiliar/alien magics from the other dragons. As they've rebuilt their power, it's been THEIR power and not the stolen/borrowed power they had before.

If you talk to him in the Eye of the North Councillor Phlunt posits that "Primordus' slumber may have allowed it time to process the foreign magic - or alter itself to accommodate it. We don't really know at this point."

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@anninke.7469 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available.

There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense.Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag.The commander
not
murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake.The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players.The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning.

And Crecia being Blood Imperator just like that.

Well Bangar went AWOL, so Crecia took over, her title went from acting imperator to the actual imperator.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.

Those are not the Destroyers from Ember Bay. Primordus can no longer create new Destroyers that also harbor the dead Elder Dragons' abilities, because Aurene restored the balance (so no more crossover abilities).

This is true, these aren’t the Ember Bay and Draconis Mons destroyers, as most of that residual magic was from Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

That being said Phlunt advises that Primordus may have learned to use the dead dragons powers more efficiently while it was asleep from the events of Season 3.

“These destroyers seem to be free of Zhaitan's or Mordremoth's magic.An astute observation. Primordus' slumber may have allowed it time to process the foreign magic—or alter itself to accommodate it. We don't really know at this point.”

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@"wolfyrik.2017" said:That doesn't seem to make sense either. Aurene had to eat the errant magic inside kralk, she didn't just cause it to no longer be there. She hasn't done the same to Jormag or Primordus. How did she take the power that we know Primordus, consumed? Did I miss something?

To tell the truth, I have been asking myself the same question ever since I read that she had "restored balance" in one of the cutscenes or in some dialogue. That was after her ascension, I don't recall when exactly, sorry. I always assumed that, when she ascended, she somehow neutralized the foreign magic that she had gained access to through her grandfather when we stroke the final blow on him.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available.

There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense.Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag.The commander
not
murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake.The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players.The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning.

And Crecia being Blood Imperator just like that.

Well Bangar went AWOL, so Crecia took over, her title went from acting imperator to the actual imperator.

The problem (as I see it) is that it happened sneakily off-screen whith no official announcement, no ceremony, no explanation. And no one, including Bangar when she calls herself the imperator right in his face, has a word to say about it. With her camped in the Eye I hoped we would be able to at least ask her about it. But no, she only offers more blabbering about Ryland...

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@anninke.7469 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available.

There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense.Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag.The commander
not
murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake.The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players.The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning.

And Crecia being Blood Imperator just like that.

Well Bangar went AWOL, so Crecia took over, her title went from acting imperator to the actual imperator.

The problem (as I see it) is that it happened sneakily off-screen whith no official announcement, no ceremony, no explanation. And no one, including Bangar when she calls herself the imperator right in his face, has a word to say about it. With her camped in the Eye I hoped we would be able to at least ask her about it. But no, she only offers more blabbering about Ryland...

Rytlock has a line in the first story instance that said Crecia faced some opposition (off-screen) when claiming the title for herself, but that she dealt with the naysayers. Not sure what the exact quote is, but they do briefly address it early on in truce. We just don't hear the details, and we don't hear it from Crecia. Based on what we've seen in Truce, the devs likely do not have the time to give this plot thread the development it deserves.

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@anninke.7469 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available.

There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense.Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag.The commander
not
murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake.The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players.The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning.

And Crecia being Blood Imperator just like that.

Well Bangar went AWOL, so Crecia took over, her title went from acting imperator to the actual imperator.

The problem (as I see it) is that it happened sneakily off-screen whith no official announcement, no ceremony, no explanation. And no one, including Bangar when she calls herself the imperator right in his face, has a word to say about it. With her camped in the Eye I hoped we would be able to at least ask her about it. But no, she only offers more blabbering about Ryland...

My guess is because they were in the middle of a civil war, so it makes sense why it was so sudden and no ceremony. Just like if your boss just went AWOL and you were the second in command and got to take over due to chain of command.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available.

There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense.Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag.The commander
not
murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake.The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players.The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning.

And Crecia being Blood Imperator just like that.

Well Bangar went AWOL, so Crecia took over, her title went from acting imperator to the actual imperator.

The problem (as I see it) is that it happened sneakily off-screen whith no official announcement, no ceremony, no explanation. And no one, including Bangar when she calls herself the imperator right in his face, has a word to say about it. With her camped in the Eye I hoped we would be able to at least ask her about it. But no, she only offers more blabbering about Ryland...

My guess is because they were in the middle of a civil war, so it makes sense why it was so sudden and no ceremony. Just like if your boss just went AWOL and you were the second in command and got to take over due to chain of command.

But he's not on AWOL. He's being held as prisoner by our merry band of Dragonwatchers. That's like imprisoning a leader of a country and purposefully replacing said leader with someone on our side. Whatever may happen to him, even at his current position, he's still alive and should still be the Imperator of the Blood Legion. You may say "but he's now one of Jormag's minions!" Then what about us and Aurene? What will the Blood Legion feel about that? Isn't the reason for the Civil War in the first place is because of us? This only solidifies Imperator Ruinbringer's actions.

This storyline has gone bonkers. I just can't take it seriously anymore.

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@borgs.6103 said:

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available.

There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense.Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag.The commander
not
murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake.The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players.The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic.The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning.

And Crecia being Blood Imperator just like that.

Well Bangar went AWOL, so Crecia took over, her title went from acting imperator to the actual imperator.

The problem (as I see it) is that it happened sneakily off-screen whith no official announcement, no ceremony, no explanation. And no one, including Bangar when she calls herself the imperator right in his face, has a word to say about it. With her camped in the Eye I hoped we would be able to at least ask her about it. But no, she only offers more blabbering about Ryland...

My guess is because they were in the middle of a civil war, so it makes sense why it was so sudden and no ceremony. Just like if your boss just went AWOL and you were the second in command and got to take over due to chain of command.

But he's not on AWOL. He's being held as prisoner by our merry band of Dragonwatchers. That's like imprisoning a leader of a country and purposefully replacing said leader with someone on our side. Whatever may happen to him, even at his current position, he's still alive and should still be the Imperator of the Blood Legion. You may say
"but he's now one of Jormag's minions!"
Then what about us and Aurene? What will the Blood Legion feel about that? Isn't the reason for the Civil War in the first place is because of us? This only solidifies Imperator Ruinbringer's actions.

This storyline has gone bonkers. I just can't take it seriously anymore.

If the president of a country is replaced then they're no longer the president of that country. If that leader was a traitor then they sure as hell shouldn't keep the title of president.

Bangar didn't go AWOL. Bangar betrayed the Blood Legion when he left and formed the Dominion. When he abandoned the Blood Legion he lost any right to the title of Imperator and left a vacuum that Crecia filled. That was quite logical given that she was his second in command and didn't betray the legion.

I mean you surely don't think that he, a traitor that incited mass mutiny from the legions, formed a new nation and caused a civil war that devastated the legions, should remain in charge of the Blood Legion just because he was in charge of it once? That makes absolutely no sense.

I'm sure that most loyal Blood Legion charr (and quite a few Dominion members at this stage) would love his head on a pike over the death and destruction that he caused. They sure as hell don't want him back in charge.

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@Pifil.5193 said:If the president of a country is replaced then they're no longer the president of that country. If that leader was a traitor then they sure as hell shouldn't keep the title of president.

He's not replaced though... Only those with the bloodline of the first 4 of the Khan-Ur's children can be Imperators. He's not a traitor as well. He's the leader of the Blood Legion. How can you be a traitor to your own leadership?Bangar didn't go AWOL. Bangar betrayed the Blood Legion when he left and formed the Dominion. When he abandoned the Blood Legion he lost any right to the title of Imperator and left a vacuum that Crecia filled. That was quite logical given that she was his second in command and didn't betray the legion.

I mean you surely don't think that he, a traitor that incited mass mutiny from the legions, formed a new nation and caused a civil war that devastated the legions, should remain in charge of the Blood Legion just because he was in charge of it once? That makes absolutely no sense.

I'm sure that most loyal Blood Legion charr (and quite a few Dominion members at this stage) would love his head on a pike over the death and destruction that he caused. They sure as hell don't want him back in charge.Again - Crecia doesn't have the Khan-Ur bloodline, so she can't be an Imperator, unless she just suddenly is. And you can't betray if you're the top dog. Who are you betraying? Bangar may be an absolute monster as a leader, but he's still the leader. Blood Legion owes their loyalty to their Imperator. Charr Legions were at war with each other before, This is nothing new. If anything, the non-Blood Legion Charr that joined him are the traitors. Him creating the Dominion and a lot of Charr joining only proves that he's got the charisma to lead.

I'm with you with that it doesn't make sense Crecia suddenly becoming Imperator. It's like we just time-skipped some Charr politics and suddenly there's a non-Khan-Ur lineage Imperator and everyone's just fine with it. What a way to ruin an interesting lore tidbit for the Charr there.

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@borgs.6103 said:

@"Pifil.5193" said:If the president of a country is replaced then they're no longer the president of that country. If that leader was a traitor then they sure as hell shouldn't keep the title of president.

He's not replaced though... Only those with the bloodline of the first 4 of the Khan-Ur's children can be Imperators. He's not a traitor as well. He's the leader of the Blood Legion. How can you be a traitor to your own leadership?

I would say he was a traitor to the High Legions and to all charr. After all the Blood Legion is one of the High Legions Ash, Blood, Iron, (and Flame again now that they have been brought back into the fold) so I don't think they're a separate, soverign nation, just one part of the charr nation. He acted against all the charr when he decided to moff and wake Jormag.

Bangar didn't go AWOL. Bangar betrayed the Blood Legion when he left and formed the Dominion. When he abandoned the Blood Legion he lost any right to the title of Imperator and left a vacuum that Crecia filled. That was quite logical given that she was his second in command and
didn't
betray the legion.

I mean you surely don't think that he, a traitor that incited mass mutiny from the legions, formed a new nation and caused a civil war that devastated the legions, should remain in charge of the Blood Legion just because he was in charge of it once? That makes absolutely no sense.

I'm sure that most loyal Blood Legion charr (and quite a few Dominion members at this stage) would love his head on a pike over the death and destruction that he caused. They sure as hell don't want him back in charge.Again - Crecia doesn't have the Khan-Ur bloodline, so she can't be an Imperator, unless she just suddenly is. And you can't betray if you're the top dog. Who are you betraying? Bangar may be an absolute monster as a leader, but he's still the leader. Blood Legion owes their loyalty to their Imperator. Charr Legions were at war with each other before, This is nothing new. If anything, the non-Blood Legion Charr that joined him are the traitors. Him creating the Dominion and a lot of Charr joining only proves that he's got the charisma to lead.

No, he's been deposed, he's not the leader anymore, Crecia and presumably the other Blood Legion Tribunes stripped him of that. How that works in charr society I don't know, I'd imagine that in the past at least it's normally been quite brutal and quite quick but we don't have any information on that. I'm not familiar with charr politics but I know power vacuums will be filled quickly. However, the fact that Bangar is still alive definitely weakens any claim she has on the title of Blood Legion Imperator.

I don't know about Crecia's bloodline but apparently she is Blood Legion Imperator now so she might well be part of the Khan-Ur bloodline, I wonder how rare that actually is? I mean, in Europe at least the royal houses tended to intermarry a lot but there are still a lot of distant claimants to every crown in europe. The charr don't have noble houses in that way and nor do they mate for life so I wonder what percentage of charr have at least some Khan-Ur blood from sometime back in the past thousand years or so? It may be that you can't throw a rock in the Black Citadel without hitting at least one possible heir of the Khan-Ur.

I'm with you with that it doesn't make sense Crecia suddenly becoming Imperator. It's like we just time-skipped some Charr politics and suddenly there's a non-Khan-Ur lineage Imperator and everyone's just fine with it. What a way to ruin an interesting lore tidbit for the Charr there.

Yeah, I don't like how they do this kind of stuff just "off camera" but this kind of hand-waving, rush-job is all too common from ArenaNet.

It's also entirely possible that whoever made that decision had no idea of the need for an Imperator to have blood of the Khan-Ur but yeah, if she isn't of the bloodline of the Khan-Ur then she cannot possibly be the Khan-Ur so it's doubtful that she would be accepted as Imperator. I'm sure they'll conjure up a suitable birth certificate for her. ;)

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@borgs.6103 said:

@"Pifil.5193" said:If the president of a country is replaced then they're no longer the president of that country. If that leader was a traitor then they sure as hell shouldn't keep the title of president.

He's not replaced though... Only those with the bloodline of the first 4 of the Khan-Ur's children can be Imperators. He's not a traitor as well. He's the leader of the Blood Legion. How can you be a traitor to your own leadership?Bangar didn't go AWOL. Bangar betrayed the Blood Legion when he left and formed the Dominion. When he abandoned the Blood Legion he lost any right to the title of Imperator and left a vacuum that Crecia filled. That was quite logical given that she was his second in command and
didn't
betray the legion.

I mean you surely don't think that he, a traitor that incited mass mutiny from the legions, formed a new nation and caused a civil war that devastated the legions, should remain in charge of the Blood Legion just because he was in charge of it once? That makes absolutely no sense.

I'm sure that most loyal Blood Legion charr (and quite a few Dominion members at this stage) would love his head on a pike over the death and destruction that he caused. They sure as hell don't want him back in charge.Again - Crecia doesn't have the Khan-Ur bloodline, so she can't be an Imperator, unless she just suddenly is. And you can't betray if you're the top dog. Who are you betraying? Bangar may be an absolute monster as a leader, but he's still the leader. Blood Legion owes their loyalty to their Imperator. Charr Legions were at war with each other before, This is nothing new. If anything, the non-Blood Legion Charr that joined him are the traitors. Him creating the Dominion and a lot of Charr joining only proves that he's got the charisma to lead.

I'm with you with that it doesn't make sense Crecia suddenly becoming Imperator. It's like we just time-skipped some Charr politics and suddenly there's a non-Khan-Ur lineage Imperator and everyone's just fine with it. What a way to ruin an interesting lore tidbit for the Charr there.

Were do you get the information that only the bloodlines can be imperators?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Khan-Ur

Only his bloodline can be khan-ur it says nothing about the imperators.Just that the first imperators are his children nothing about a rule of it always having to be like that.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@"Pifil.5193" said:If the president of a country is replaced then they're no longer the president of that country. If that leader was a traitor then they sure as hell shouldn't keep the title of president.

He's not replaced though... Only those with the bloodline of the first 4 of the Khan-Ur's children can be Imperators. He's not a traitor as well. He's the leader of the Blood Legion. How can you be a traitor to your own leadership?Bangar didn't go AWOL. Bangar betrayed the Blood Legion when he left and formed the Dominion. When he abandoned the Blood Legion he lost any right to the title of Imperator and left a vacuum that Crecia filled. That was quite logical given that she was his second in command and
didn't
betray the legion.

I mean you surely don't think that he, a traitor that incited mass mutiny from the legions, formed a new nation and caused a civil war that devastated the legions, should remain in charge of the Blood Legion just because he was in charge of it once? That makes absolutely no sense.

I'm sure that most loyal Blood Legion charr (and quite a few Dominion members at this stage) would love his head on a pike over the death and destruction that he caused. They sure as hell don't want him back in charge.Again - Crecia doesn't have the Khan-Ur bloodline, so she can't be an Imperator, unless she just suddenly is. And you can't betray if you're the top dog. Who are you betraying? Bangar may be an absolute monster as a leader, but he's still the leader. Blood Legion owes their loyalty to their Imperator. Charr Legions were at war with each other before, This is nothing new. If anything, the non-Blood Legion Charr that joined him are the traitors. Him creating the Dominion and a lot of Charr joining only proves that he's got the charisma to lead.

I'm with you with that it doesn't make sense Crecia suddenly becoming Imperator. It's like we just time-skipped some Charr politics and suddenly there's a non-Khan-Ur lineage Imperator and everyone's just fine with it. What a way to ruin an interesting lore tidbit for the Charr there.

Were do you get the information that only the bloodlines can be imperators?

Only his bloodline can be khan-ur it says nothing about the imperators.Just that the first imperators are his children nothing about a rule of it always having to be like that.

The source was from here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ecology_of_the_Charr

"The primus warband of any legion carries the name of that legion—Ash, Blood, Iron and in the case of the Gold Legion, Flame. This singular legion is hereditary, but the leader must claim the name through blood challenge—a fight between descendants of the Khan-Ur for supremacy within the legion.

Occasionally, non-descendants of the Khan-Ur join the primus warband, taking the name of their leader as their own, as is Charr tradition. But the leader of the primus is always a descendant of the Khan-Ur, the foremost heir of the legion and their rightful inheritor of the crown of leadership among the Charr."

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