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Warrior is Terrible still


gmmg.9210

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In PVPWarrior right now has 2 settings, dps and paper thin or toothless and support. No middle ground.

In PVEWarrior only viable role is DPS. Other classes can stack might just the same and bring other benefits as well.Banners are ridiculously pointless you are talking of a 200 stat boost for the party. and that is if they benefit from both.

Warrior right now sucks however you look at it.

Amor does not mean anything in this game, this is the least "warriory" warrior i have ever played in an RPG/MMO.

A warrior's defining characteristic in most if not all RPGs is that they can take damage, it should not be optional, there should not be a build that you are unable to soak damage, the builds for warrior should define what else the warrior is able to do.

The way an elementalist can facecheck everything you can throw at it and still outlast and burn down the warrior, is the ultimate disconnect between what both these classes are supposed to be.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior is not even bad, it's just other things are still untouched or not touched enough. quit living in pre-nerf days, nobody likes to get hit with a lvl 1 burst skill on a 6s cd that chunks 11k+ out of your health pool. That was broken, still is broken. Nerf the other kitten that's still OP, then warrior will climb back to where it needs to be without touching it at all. Ez.

I mostly agree with this. I don't really think we need to buff Warrior, but rather nerf a few over-performing specs.

you still don't get it after 9 months of saying "nerf a few over performing specs"?

most builds already hard nerfed multiple times, and meta shifted multiple times, warrior is now the support healer with 0 possible damage potential.power warrior is just completely trash,kalla renegade destroys power warholo still out performs power war in team play even after multiple hard nerfscore ranger still beats war side node, even tho it's non-existence in meta.condi core thief destroys power warmost gimmick condi build destroys power warflamethrower scrapper destroys power war

power war right now is literally bad in top end and bad in low end, only good at wrecking out-skilled noobs.

"most builds" yet the ones who are currently consistently on the top have -gasp- not been touched still.you still don't get it after screaming "BUFF BUFF BUFF" for 40 years huh... lel

It might feel good to think nerfing OP'ed builds are the answer ... but your warrior will still be trash ... #schadenfreude

put this this way ... Warrior isn't terrible because those other classes have OPed builds. #justsayin

That's actually exactly why warrior is "terrible". Buff warrior anymore and it'll start going right back to pre-february nerf numbers.Just fyi - lvl 1 bursts on spellbreaker still hit pretty high numbers, anywhere from 6k+it's proven spellbreakers can be tanky still, even after the nerfs. look at healbreaker.warrior in general can also be pretty tanky if they take defense, a trait line focusing on enduring damage, rather than strength, a trait line focusing on DOING damage.serker can still shred away HP, at the cost of losing defense. which is fine.

justsayin

That makes no sense ... for exactly the reason in the post you quoted. Warrior isn't trash because other classes are massively OP. It's not out of the question it's intentional they are hard to play. Again, that kind of thinking assumes that Anet's goal is to make all the classes equivalent in performance in competitive environments. Nothing in this game should give you that impression.

To assume that I assume Anet's goal is to make anything equivalent, given the way they've handled balance in the past and how long they neglect to address the things that are still untouched/overperforming only proves your own ignorance.Btw, Warrior is not hard to play. Matter of fact, even per Anet themselves, Warrior is the most direct and simple profession in the game, purposely by design.Try to make more sense, the sense that you seem to think you have with your empty responses.

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Given their history and track record, i honestly doubt they really aim at some semblance of class balance.

Its a design choice, i may not like it, but to assume after seeing the current state of warrior and the track record of elementalist, mesmer and necromancer that they really actually want classes to be somewhat on par, i feel is exceedingly optimistic.

There is a clear class tier, we might not agree with the decision for it to be there, but the track record speaks for itself.

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Warrior is not even bad, it's just other things are still untouched or not touched enough. quit living in pre-nerf days, nobody likes to get hit with a lvl 1 burst skill on a 6s cd that chunks 11k+ out of your health pool. That was broken, still is broken. Nerf the other kitten that's still OP, then warrior will climb back to where it needs to be without touching it at all. Ez.

I mostly agree with this. I don't really think we need to buff Warrior, but rather nerf a few over-performing specs.

you still don't get it after 9 months of saying "nerf a few over performing specs"?

most builds already hard nerfed multiple times, and meta shifted multiple times, warrior is now the support healer with 0 possible damage potential.power warrior is just completely trash,kalla renegade destroys power warholo still out performs power war in team play even after multiple hard nerfscore ranger still beats war side node, even tho it's non-existence in meta.condi core thief destroys power warmost gimmick condi build destroys power warflamethrower scrapper destroys power war

power war right now is literally bad in top end and bad in low end, only good at wrecking out-skilled noobs.

"most builds" yet the ones who are currently consistently on the top have -gasp- not been touched still.you still don't get it after screaming "BUFF BUFF BUFF" for 40 years huh... lel

It might feel good to think nerfing OP'ed builds are the answer ... but your warrior will still be trash ... #schadenfreude

put this this way ... Warrior isn't terrible because those other classes have OPed builds. #justsayin

That's actually exactly why warrior is "terrible". Buff warrior anymore and it'll start going right back to pre-february nerf numbers.Just fyi - lvl 1 bursts on spellbreaker still hit pretty high numbers, anywhere from 6k+it's proven spellbreakers can be tanky still, even after the nerfs. look at healbreaker.warrior in general can also be pretty tanky if they take defense, a trait line focusing on enduring damage, rather than strength, a trait line focusing on DOING damage.serker can still shred away HP, at the cost of losing defense. which is fine.

justsayin

That makes no sense ... for exactly the reason in the post you quoted. Warrior isn't trash because other classes are massively OP. It's not out of the question it's intentional they are hard to play. Again, that kind of thinking assumes that Anet's goal is to make all the classes equivalent in performance in competitive environments. Nothing in this game should give you that impression.

To assume that I assume Anet's goal is to make anything equivalent, given the way they've handled balance in the past and how long they neglect to address the things that are still untouched/overperforming only proves your own ignorance.

Good ... then my ignorance about what you believe is an admission by you that the idea Anet nerf all the other OPed classes because of balancing to equivalent performance levels to the benefit of warriors is completely unlikely and impractical ... not to mention doesn't solve whatever problem warriors have in PVP. Let's not turn the 'warriors have problems in PVP' thread into a 'nerf all the OPed stuff so warrior is easier to play' thread.

It's not easy to accept but Anet's balance is thematic and even when they attempt to balance 'by the numbers' ... it's generally unsatisfactory. So the likeliness of the 'nerf all the OPed stuff' approach will benefit warriors is not real. If it's intended, their isn't an argument to change it. Interestingly, if there is NO intention, there is also no argument to change it.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:It is more of 'Warrior is a good example of balance right now' and if that is the case then the nerfs that other classes would need for that to be true are more than I think those mains could handle without their psyche cracking.

Right .. in theory, nerfing everyone to equivalent performance levels would alleviate the delta ... and we know how likely it is that happens as well. I mean, the game isn't even built around this concept of equivalent performance ... so for someone to suggest that's the answer to warrior PVP issues means they aren't paying attention to how Anet changes the game.

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@Apolo.5942 said:

In PVEWarrior only viable role is DPS. Other classes can stack might just the same and bring other benefits as well.Banners are ridiculously pointless you are talking of a 200 stat boost for the party. and that is if they benefit from both.

I totally agree with you here, warrior need quite massive overhaul.Warrior PvE just banner bot, because banner is something extra like spotter etc2. It's not even 1 but taking 2 utility spots as well. Also other class got some F2-3-4. Warrior at best only F1 (Core+Berserker) and F1-F2 (spellbreaker)Remember when Banner broken and disabled? suddenly none wants warrior in raid.

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Warrior's banners will be always "relevant" for people because 400 stats is "really" important for game. The thing why everyone want banners is because it's written on SC, metabattle, etc.. To be clear they do like 5% of damage.. For raids ? Ok, for lots of bosses you stay 100% of time in banner's radius but for fractals ? It's joke... Waste 2 slots for 5% damage up.

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@"Morokey.8534" said:Warrior's banners will be always "relevant" for people because 400 stats is "really" important for game. The thing why everyone want banners is because it's written on SC, metabattle, etc.. To be clear they do like 5% of damage.. For raids ? Ok, for lots of bosses you stay 100% of time in banner's radius but for fractals ? It's joke... Waste 2 slots for 5% damage up.

Banners are wasted in FotM. Bosses there melt fast regardless of whether you have banners or not.

I think they should just combine Banner of Discipline with Strength (new Banner of Offense)and Tactics with Defense (new Banner of Defense) at this point. That way you just need to carry one banner and feel like you can bring other skills to the table.

You could have a bar like TTL - Banner of Offense - FGJ - SiO - Battle Standard and go Strength/Disc/Tactics with banners and shouts traited.

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@"Krysard.1364" said:Support warr is one of the best builds for PvP, and I'm playing core axe (which is a lot of fun) just fine in top 250. Granted it's not holo, granted warr needs some love in terms of build diversity, but it is not a bad PvP class

the topic isn't about warrior being "bad" but being anti-funnobody said banner war is bad in pve, nor support war is bad for pvp nor support war is bad for wvw.but how anti fun all the builds are.warrior already has the least active skills, taking 2 banner literally make the most boring spec in the entire world, and the entire dps comes from 6 weapon skill.and support war is only good, for full counter spam making warrior unkillable, the best healer is the one who lives, thus heal the most for it live the longest, tho full counter daze spam is literally one of the most anti-fun in the game, for the player and the enemy

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@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@"Apolo.5942" said:

In PVEWarrior only viable role is DPS. Other classes can stack might just the same and bring other benefits as well.Banners are ridiculously pointless you are talking of a 200 stat boost for the party. and that is if they benefit from both.

I totally agree with you here, warrior need quite massive overhaul.Warrior PvE just banner bot, because banner is something extra like spotter etc2. It's not even 1 but taking 2 utility spots as well. Also other class got some F2-3-4. Warrior at best only F1 (Core+Berserker) and F1-F2 (spellbreaker)

How can you write that you "totally agree with him" and then write the opposite of what he said? :expressionless:

Remember when Banner broken and disabled? suddenly none wants warrior in raid.

Yeah, I remember and that's a lie. I was playing both as a warrior and with warriors in squads when the banners were disabled, nobody seemed to kick them out for the class they're playing when they just joined for a dps spot.

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@felix.2386 said:

@"Krysard.1364" said:Support warr is one of the best builds for PvP, and I'm playing core axe (which is a lot of fun) just fine in top 250. Granted it's not holo, granted warr needs some love in terms of build diversity, but it is not a bad PvP class

the topic isn't about warrior being "bad" but being anti-funnobody said banner war is bad in pve, nor support war is bad for pvp nor support war is bad for wvw.but how anti fun all the builds are.warrior already has the least active skills, taking 2 banner literally make the most boring spec in the entire world, and the entire dps comes from 6 weapon skill.and support war is only good, for full counter spam making warrior unkillable, the best healer is the one who lives, thus heal the most for it live the longest, tho full counter daze spam is literally one of the most anti-fun in the game, for the player and the enemy

aaactually the thread is about the "warrior being terrible" and "the worst class in pvp", which is far from claiming "it's anti-fun".And number of keys available to press isn't an absolute metric by which you judge a class "being fun". If it is, then just pick a class with most keystrokes available and have fun with that, that's always such a weird complaint for me.

But yeah, for me it would be better if warrior's leading role was more.. warrior-ish.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Krysard.1364" said:Support warr is one of the best builds for PvP, and I'm playing core axe (which is a lot of fun) just fine in top 250. Granted it's not holo, granted warr needs some love in terms of build diversity, but it is not a bad PvP class

the topic isn't about warrior being "bad" but being anti-funnobody said banner war is bad in pve, nor support war is bad for pvp nor support war is bad for wvw.but how anti fun all the builds are.warrior already has the least active skills, taking 2 banner literally make the most boring spec in the entire world, and the entire dps comes from 6 weapon skill.and support war is only good, for full counter spam making warrior unkillable, the best healer is the one who lives, thus heal the most for it live the longest, tho full counter daze spam is literally one of the most anti-fun in the game, for the player and the enemy

aaactually the thread is about the "warrior being terrible" and "the worst class in pvp", which is far from claiming "it's anti-fun".And number of keys available to press isn't an absolute metric by which you judge a class "being fun". If it is, then just pick a class with most keystrokes available and have fun with that, that's always such a weird complaint for me.

But yeah, for me it would be better if warrior's leading role was more.. warrior-ish.

aaaactually the topic is about the "warrior being terrible" for the class meta builds are "anti-fun".because warrior's meta builds are no where trash.

that having banners = anti funfull counter spam = anti funforced support = anti fun

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@felix.2386 said:

@"Krysard.1364" said:Support warr is one of the best builds for PvP, and I'm playing core axe (which is a lot of fun) just fine in top 250. Granted it's not holo, granted warr needs some love in terms of build diversity, but it is not a bad PvP class

the topic isn't about warrior being "bad" but being anti-funnobody said banner war is bad in pve, nor support war is bad for pvp nor support war is bad for wvw.but how anti fun all the builds are.warrior already has the least active skills, taking 2 banner literally make the most boring spec in the entire world, and the entire dps comes from 6 weapon skill.and support war is only good, for full counter spam making warrior unkillable, the best healer is the one who lives, thus heal the most for it live the longest, tho full counter daze spam is literally one of the most anti-fun in the game, for the player and the enemy

aaactually the thread is about the "warrior being terrible" and "the worst class in pvp", which is far from claiming "it's anti-fun".And number of keys available to press isn't an absolute metric by which you judge a class "being fun". If it is, then just pick a class with most keystrokes available and have fun with that, that's always such a weird complaint for me.

But yeah, for me it would be better if warrior's leading role was more.. warrior-ish.

aaaactually the topic is about the "warrior being terrible" for the class meta builds are "anti-fun".because warrior's meta builds are no where trash.

that having banners = anti funfull counter spam = anti funforced support = anti fun

I meaaan reread the thread starting from the first post (actually, rereading the title +first post itself will be enough) and you'll notice that wasn't its purpose or the claim OP made, so your answer about "topic not being about warrior being bad, just antifun!" is just false and made up by you -intentionally or not.Krysard responded to OP/thread itself, so your claim that the thread isn't about that for the sake of just dismissing the whole answer that's literally talking about opening statements seems pretty out of place. If you think the thread was about "warrior being antifun" then it's because you've repurposed it in your own mind.

Also repeating because you completely avoided it in your answer: if you measure "fun" by number of available key presses then change the class to the one with the most of them and you won't have anything to complain about.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"artharon.9276" said:It's the beauty of making this class your main. It slowly turns you into warriors in real life.

i don't want to suffer in real life xD

"Life is pain"

Princess Bride reference, but I will accept Berserk.

Also, Guts is GOAT warrior.

Guts spec for EoD!!!!! Give him greataxe dunno, and he cuts enemies in half!!!

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@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@"artharon.9276" said:It's the beauty of making this class your main. It slowly turns you into warriors in real life.

i don't want to suffer in real life xD

"Life is pain"

Princess Bride reference, but I will accept Berserk.

Also, Guts is GOAT warrior.

Guts spec for EoD!!!!! Give him greataxe dunno, and he cuts enemies in half!!!Well we already have Berserker it just doesn't feel like it much.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@"artharon.9276" said:It's the beauty of making this class your main. It slowly turns you into warriors in real life.

i don't want to suffer in real life xD

"Life is pain"

Princess Bride reference, but I will accept Berserk.

Also, Guts is GOAT warrior.

Guts spec for EoD!!!!! Give him greataxe dunno, and he cuts enemies in half!!!Well we already have Berserker it just doesn't feel like it much.

Need 50% damage reduction in Berserk Mode not -300 toughness glares in Necro alt. Need to refresh quickness and superspeed on Primal Burst hits and upon killing a foe (inside or outside of berserk mode) glares even harder in Reaper quickness pulses.

Shoot, killing something should extend Berserk Mode by 5s... glares even harder in Necro alt*

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"artharon.9276" said:It's the beauty of making this class your main. It slowly turns you into warriors in real life.

i don't want to suffer in real life xD

"Life is pain"

Princess Bride reference, but I will accept Berserk.

Also, Guts is GOAT warrior.

Guts spec for EoD!!!!! Give him greataxe dunno, and he cuts enemies in half!!!Well we already have Berserker it just doesn't feel like it much.

Need 50% damage reduction in Berserk Mode not -300 toughness
glares in Necro alt
. Need to refresh quickness and superspeed on Primal Burst hits and upon killing a foe (inside or outside of berserk mode)
glares even harder in Reaper quickness pulses
.

Shoot, killing something should extend Berserk Mode by 5s...
glares even harder in Necro alt*Better look at Holo the thing is running the full HoT Berserker build in one traitline + it can be mister magic and disappear + invuln.Quickness is not an issue for zerker it doesn't need it that much, they put the quickness in to band aid it since their slow juggernaut thing didn't pan out cause they kept nerfing the damage, log in and run it without the trait and notice that with quickness it is running at the same speed as everything else, also there is added counterplay with that corrupt the quickness and the casts become forever Executioner becomes almost 3 second cast. Don't ask for quickness, it generally comes with hard damage nerfs that is why Reaper is not really benching well in PVE.Berserker doesn't need more damage it lacks condition management, Health management, and has general mobility issues.The -300 toughness doesn't make a lick of sense, who ever redesigned it wasn't thinking at all, it doesn't even fit role play man, in PVP you have to constantly kite but also melee which doesn't work, the role play of berserker is going inside the place with most danger and the design should promote you to go for that gameplay.Slap some supperspeed somewhere like holo, some condi and HP management to be able to play slugfests with all the piss AoE around, gain barrier on something like spectral armor.I wrote some suggestions in a thread if you want to add something they might read it and in about a year they might implement some stuff.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@"artharon.9276" said:It's the beauty of making this class your main. It slowly turns you into warriors in real life.

i don't want to suffer in real life xD

"Life is pain"

Princess Bride reference, but I will accept Berserk.

Also, Guts is GOAT warrior.

Guts spec for EoD!!!!! Give him greataxe dunno, and he cuts enemies in half!!!Well we already have Berserker it just doesn't feel like it much.

Need 50% damage reduction in Berserk Mode not -300 toughness
glares in Necro alt
. Need to refresh quickness and superspeed on Primal Burst hits and upon killing a foe (inside or outside of berserk mode)
glares even harder in Reaper quickness pulses
.

Shoot, killing something should extend Berserk Mode by 5s...
glares even harder in Necro alt*Better look at Holo the thing is running the full HoT Berserker build in one traitline + it can be mister magic and disappear + invuln.Quickness is not an issue for zerker it doesn't need it that much, they put the quickness in to band aid it since their slow juggernaut thing didn't pan out cause they kept nerfing the damage, log in and run it without the trait and notice that with quickness it is running at the same speed as everything else, also there is added counterplay with that corrupt the quickness and the casts become forever Executioner becomes almost 3 second cast. Don't ask for quickness, it generally comes with hard damage nerfs that is why Reaper is not really benching well in PVE.Berserker doesn't need more damage it lacks condition management, Health management, and has general mobility issues.The -300 toughness doesn't make a lick of sense, who ever redesigned it wasn't thinking at all, it doesn't even fit role play man, in PVP you have to constantly kite but also melee which doesn't work, the role play of berserker is going inside the place with most danger and the design should promote you to go for that gameplay.Slap some supperspeed somewhere like holo, some condi and HP management to be able to play slugfests with all the kitten AoE around, gain barrier on something like spectral armor.I wrote some suggestions in a thread if you want to add something they might read it and in about a year they might implement some stuff.

other than picking the entire 3rd traitline for berserker, which is not only a major dmg loss but also a very squishy sustain, pairing it up with defense for adrenal health and rousing resilience and maybe strenght for the 'improved' mmr, this type of heals get overhwelmed by enemy dmg. Not to mention how rage utility skills are pretty useless. in any case, you got a link on that thread of yours? im interested!

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@Vancho.8750 said:

@"artharon.9276" said:It's the beauty of making this class your main. It slowly turns you into warriors in real life.

i don't want to suffer in real life xD

"Life is pain"

Princess Bride reference, but I will accept Berserk.

Also, Guts is GOAT warrior.

Guts spec for EoD!!!!! Give him greataxe dunno, and he cuts enemies in half!!!Well we already have Berserker it just doesn't feel like it much.

Need 50% damage reduction in Berserk Mode not -300 toughness
glares in Necro alt
. Need to refresh quickness and superspeed on Primal Burst hits and upon killing a foe (inside or outside of berserk mode)
glares even harder in Reaper quickness pulses
.

Shoot, killing something should extend Berserk Mode by 5s...
glares even harder in Necro alt*Better look at Holo the thing is running the full HoT Berserker build in one traitline + it can be mister magic and disappear + invuln.Quickness is not an issue for zerker it doesn't need it that much, they put the quickness in to band aid it since their slow juggernaut thing didn't pan out cause they kept nerfing the damage, log in and run it without the trait and notice that with quickness it is running at the same speed as everything else, also there is added counterplay with that corrupt the quickness and the casts become forever Executioner becomes almost 3 second cast. Don't ask for quickness, it generally comes with hard damage nerfs that is why Reaper is not really benching well in PVE.Reapers hard carry FotM groups on their own. Outside of Raids Reapers are in a very good spot across the game modes.My statement was more to the fact we get locked into the Mode for 20-30s but only get the quickness and superspeed for a small duration in the beginning. Having a way to refresh it, not pulse it would be healthy, particularly since it would still have counterplay.

Berserker doesn't need more damage it lacks condition management, Health management, and has general mobility issues.The refresh on superspeed would help the mobility, the removal of the toughness penalty would mitigate the health management. The spec does over torch which has condi removal on it (lol), but in general that is outsourced to core utilities and core trait lines anyway.The -300 toughness doesn't make a lick of sense, who ever redesigned it wasn't thinking at all, it doesn't even fit role play man, in PVP you have to constantly kite but also melee which doesn't work, the role play of berserker is going inside the place with most danger and the design should promote you to go for that gameplay.Agreed. The lose of core F1s was enough of a drawback. Remove the penalty. Make the superspeed refresh on Primal Burst and kills.Slap some supperspeed somewhere like holo, some condi and HP management to be able to play slugfests with all the kitten AoE around, gain barrier on something like spectral armor.See my statements on refreshing the quickness and superspeed. The toughness penalty removal would help the HP management. There IS a trait that increases heling received in the trait line, but no one ever takes it. Perhaps it should be buffed. Ditto kinda on condi management, its there, just not used.I wrote some suggestions in a thread if you want to add something they might read it and in about a year they might implement some stuff.

I believe it is my thread :wink:
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