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Great changes, but far too little - where is the Herald nerf?


GuriGashi.5617

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First thing - none of ArenaNets changes were unjustified and they all hit on the spot, but they still forgot some issues

1 - The much demanded Reaper and Lich Form Nerf

2 - Heralds will now harrass people with abnormal damage coupled with a restart button in Glint Heal and insane mobility

3 - Removing Trapper Runes which get exploited by DH's while offering options by buffing Power Damage - once they drop in 5 seconds, no one will run full glasscanon variants ever again - and maybe a rework of Firebrand

4 - Small Weaver Damage Buff that would put the spec back on the spotlight

5 - Mesmer Sustain Buff - with the nerfs to Thieves/Engi Nades and some more sustainability Mesmer could be back in the game

6 - Small Warrior Damage Buff - since they lost alot of it when CC‘s were nerfed

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@"snoow.1694" said:First thing - none of ArenaNets changes were unjustified and hit on the spot, but they still forgot some issues

1 - The much demanded Reaper and Lich Form Nerf

2 - Heralds will now harrass people with abnormal damage coupled with a restart button in Glint Heal and insane mobility

3 - Removing Trapper Runes against DH's while offering options by buffing Power Damage - once they drop in 5 seconds, no one will ever run it again - and maybe a rework of Firebrand

4 - Small Weaver Damage Buff that would put the spec back to the spotlight

5 - Mesmer Sustain Buff - with the nerfs to Thieves and Holo Nades and some more sustainability Mesmer could be back in the game

And what kind of stuff changed you would like to see?

  1. I can understand Lich Form Nerfs, but what kind of nerfs to Reaper? It's melee oriented spec most of the time and fragile if focused, no real blocks/invulns like others, Life Force generation isn't great either or rather good on long cd, only good damage if specced specifically for it, like it should be I guess?
  2. I'm not defending Heralds, but where does the source of this damage comes? Easy might generation? High flat possible damage from skills? Which aspect of Herald/Revenant is responsible for that? I'm seriously curious for reason why it's so broken. I wouldn't really call it "insane mobility class" either, because it's only mostly for engaging, if no target around, it's the slightly higher mobility than Guardian/Necro, comparable to maybe to FA Ele with Superspeed at most.
  3. Removing Trapper Runes? Ye, but apply that removal for WvW as well. DH damage is fine, I would even say it need nerfs on traps. Firebrand like many other elite speces need a complete redesign from scratch, too much of everything in 1 class.
  4. Same like Firebrand, needs for complete redesign. Damage buff won't fix it's poor design that is all over the place with it's kit.
  5. Maybe after you get rid of all this clutter on screen that Mesmers are capable of creating, ye they can get few buffs, otherwise no. Chronomancer and Mirage need also complete redesign.
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@snoow.1694 said:First thing - none of ArenaNets changes were unjustified and hit on the spot, but they still forgot some issues

1 - The much demanded Reaper and Lich Form Nerf

2 - Heralds will now harrass people with abnormal damage coupled with a restart button in Glint Heal and insane mobility

3 - Removing Trapper Runes against DH's while offering options by buffing Power Damage - once they drop in 5 seconds, no one will ever run it again - and maybe a rework of Firebrand

4 - Small Weaver Damage Buff that would put the spec back to the spotlight

5 - Mesmer Sustain Buff - with the nerfs to Thieves and Holo Nades and some more sustainability Mesmer could be back in the game

I think reaper is fine, lich form dunno, it's definitely a problem in v3s and v2s, but who cares about those game modes anyways

Herald is probably ok, even if i hate this class with some passion when i remember how many times i thought i was safe and they double port and killed me

Trapper runes prolly need an icd to shave off some of the survivability stealth provides. And honestly, those trapper builds are annoying to play against, but most of them not necessarily op

Weaver is in a weird spot, maybe you can see some play from lightning rod ans Fresh Air again with all those rounds of thief nerfs

I think mesmers will be ok after one more round of nerfs across the board. I played chrono for a bit and the level of possibilities you have with split time is kinda insane and would require some time to master it to compete in high level, so you won't see many mesmers out there. I don't want any easy to play mesmer builds, they get out of control very quickly

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@Shao.7236 said:I can't see how those complains make much sense. Even Trapper Runes deserve to stay and have an ICD instead because the ease of access is the broken aspect, not the effect.

Well I would even agree with that. I just think high damage should also be met with small sustain and I say that as a Guardian main. If someone can drop 10 stacks burn on you they should also drop faster and the other way around. ICD sounds great to me

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1- Arguable but I'm all for elite transformations being removed from sPvP.2- I doubt a nerf is needed.3- Trapper runes have been a problem child since release, I wouldn't be against a rework. This runeset already led ranger's and thief's traps to be nerfed, it might be time to admit that the runeset 6th line was the issue.4- I doubt weaver really need a damage buff.5- The mesmer do not "need" a sustain buff, else mesmers would build for sustain (hint: inspiration traitline). What mesmer need the most is mechanical QoL.

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honestly... i sort of dont understand people saying reaper need nerf... if im fair.. reaper already sort of struggle to find its place in the current metaand it require support to even be able to do anything.. burst classes normally target reaper right away and the reaper is just free food before it build up life force .it has 0 block or frame rate .. no evades and out of shroud low mobility .. life force regen is now meh?it has very low condi clean.. really damage is only thing that reaper has and even for that he has to work and build up life force take that and reaper is gone.lich form? go ahead nerf it but i think its fairly bad and easily countered skill already i dont even use it i prefer chilled to the bone elite..simply because both tempest/mesmer / warrior/ and who does have projectile reflect and then you are dead if you attack.. lich form last 10 seconds andreally thief will stealth/warrior will block/tempest/mester will reflect it.. and others will walk way .. dont try face tank it and you will be fine..

herald? you really want to nerf rev further? power herald is only a +1 and frankly thief still does that better.. herald might have abit of burst but after its burst it has nothing much to continue do damage.. mobility? only to engage as it require target and at a very very high cost..it cant even get away from you after he oes his burst that isnt even easy to land .. if you survive.. all herald does now days are searching for low HP playesa dna try finish them off .. they cant team fight and they cant 1v1 .. sorry but i think herald is fine.. very balanced in my opinion !

i agree with the rest.. DH need a nerf that burn is sick and trapper rune stealth is just too much..weaver infact ele in general core/weaver / temest as damage classes need a buff !mesmers .. i agree i would love to see mesmer not mirage back in pvp.. they are just not good enough right nowwarrior.. sad days for warrior.. really.. Anet started a diraction on feb update promised to finish and never got back at it..left classes like warrior with all their utility skills " physical skills' doing 0 damageand tons of werapon skills also doing no damage.

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@snoow.1694 said:First thing - none of ArenaNets changes were unjustified and they all hit on the spot, but they still forgot some issues

1 - The much demanded Reaper and Lich Form Nerf

2 - Heralds will now harrass people with abnormal damage coupled with a restart button in Glint Heal and insane mobility

3 - Removing Trapper Runes which get exploited by DH's while offering options by buffing Power Damage - once they drop in 5 seconds, no one will run full glasscanon variants ever again - and maybe a rework of Firebrand

4 - Small Weaver Damage Buff that would put the spec back on the spotlight

5 - Mesmer Sustain Buff - with the nerfs to Thieves/Engi Nades and some more sustainability Mesmer could be back in the game

6 - Small Warrior Damage Buff - since they lost alot of it when CC‘s were nerfed

Also I don’t think reapers that op, like I said before herald not that bad, what’s that about no glass specs becuz of dh- the condi build is fairly glassy and the power variant is full glass for sure, weaver had enough damage, Mesmer is fine now and war damage is fine...

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@snoow.1694 said:

@Shao.7236 said:I can't see how those complains make much sense. Even Trapper Runes deserve to stay and have an ICD instead because the ease of access is the broken aspect, not the effect.

Well I would even agree with that. I just think high damage should also be met with small sustain and I say that as a Guardian main. If someone can drop 10 stacks burn on you they should also drop faster and the other way around. ICD sounds great to me

Trapper DH already does drop fast, just not to melee. Pressure them from range after F3 is gone and avoid F1 pull and they're quite literally helpless.

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@snoow.1694 said:First thing - none of ArenaNets changes were unjustified and they all hit on the spot, but they still forgot some issues

1 - The much demanded Reaper and Lich Form Nerf

2 - Heralds will now harrass people with abnormal damage coupled with a restart button in Glint Heal and insane mobility

3 - Removing Trapper Runes which get exploited by DH's while offering options by buffing Power Damage - once they drop in 5 seconds, no one will run full glasscanon variants ever again - and maybe a rework of Firebrand

4 - Small Weaver Damage Buff that would put the spec back on the spotlight

5 - Mesmer Sustain Buff - with the nerfs to Thieves/Engi Nades and some more sustainability Mesmer could be back in the game

6 - Small Warrior Damage Buff - since they lost alot of it when CC‘s were nerfed

From all your points, i wont agree with number five. Since last patch i have seen power mesmers (Chronos in this case) with great surviability (less damage overall in game does that) winning 1v2 in side nodes and sometimes middle. With all the visual cluster as a bonus for you.

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:1- Arguable but I'm all for elite transformations being removed from sPvP.2- I doubt a nerf is needed.3- Trapper runes have been a problem child since release, I wouldn't be against a rework. This runeset already led ranger's and thief's traps to be nerfed, it might be time to admit that the runeset 6th line was the issue.4- I doubt weaver really need a damage buff.5- The mesmer do not "need" a sustain buff, else mesmers would build for sustain (hint: inspiration traitline). What mesmer need the most is mechanical QoL.

mesmer needs something, I can get sustain but I deal 0 dmg, or I can deal dmg and only way to recover life is 6k heal once in a red moon.balance wise that is fine IF everyone else does it too exept its not the case cuz hurr durr holo/rev

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Yes, let's delete one of the most high skill builds in existence because a heal that you can largely negate by just not attacking them requires too much skill to counter play.

that would be counterplay if the skill didnt activate instantly

If they're in dragon stance, you know it's coming. If they're channeling Facet of Light, it's coming soon. Just stop attacking and they will only get a small tick of healing and the rest of the 3 sec buff is wasted.

That's much more counter play than a guardian or engi that will instantly go invincible with no way to tell ahead of time

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herald has as condi garbage damage, in power almost no sustain, no stunbreaks, extremely easy to counter. Even its might & protection generation feels like sh...could maybe even need a little buff / tweak in energy usage (its ridiculous)

... and reaper&core necro both need an shroud+lich nerf

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@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Yes, let's delete one of the most high skill builds in existence because a heal that you can largely negate by just not attacking them requires too much skill to counter play.

that would be counterplay if the skill didnt activate instantly

If they're in dragon stance, you know it's coming. If they're channeling Facet of Light, it's coming soon. Just stop attacking and they will only get a small tick of healing and the rest of the 3 sec buff is wasted.

That's much more counter play than a guardian or engi that will instantly go invincible with no way to tell ahead of time

ah yes the, its coming somewhere withing 10s, just do nothing 5Head, just never attack rev in dragon stance 5Head

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Yes, let's delete one of the most high skill builds in existence because a heal that you can largely negate by just not attacking them requires too much skill to counter play.

that would be counterplay if the skill didnt activate instantly

If they're in dragon stance, you know it's coming. If they're channeling Facet of Light, it's coming soon. Just stop attacking and they will only get a small tick of healing and the rest of the 3 sec buff is wasted.

That's much more counter play than a guardian or engi that will instantly go invincible with no way to tell ahead of time

ah yes the, its coming somewhere withing 10s, just do nothing 5Head, just never attack rev in dragon stance 5Head

This isn't rocket science. You see dragon stance, then you know it could be coming somewhere in there and just be ready to stop attacking when it happens. No different than counter-playing an ele and adapting your play based on on what element they're in except it's even simpler. You just stop attacking and then wipe the floor with the rev that is still at low health with no sustain left. You can attack and fight like normal when they're in dragon. You just stop when that heal icon shows up under their name. Not complicated.

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@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Yes, let's delete one of the most high skill builds in existence because a heal that you can largely negate by just not attacking them requires too much skill to counter play.

that would be counterplay if the skill didnt activate instantly

If they're in dragon stance, you know it's coming. If they're channeling Facet of Light, it's coming soon. Just stop attacking and they will only get a small tick of healing and the rest of the 3 sec buff is wasted.

That's much more counter play than a guardian or engi that will instantly go invincible with no way to tell ahead of time

ah yes the, its coming somewhere withing 10s, just do nothing 5Head, just never attack rev in dragon stance 5Head

This isn't rocket science. You see dragon stance, then you know it could be coming somewhere in there and just be ready to stop attacking when it happens. No different than counter-playing an ele and adapting your play based on on what element they're in except it's even simpler. You just stop attacking and then wipe the floor with the rev that is still at low health with no sustain left. You can attack and fight like normal when they're in dragon. You just stop when that heal icon shows up under their name. Not complicated.

dude its instant lol

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Yes, let's delete one of the most high skill builds in existence because a heal that you can largely negate by just not attacking them requires too much skill to counter play.

that would be counterplay if the skill didnt activate instantly

If they're in dragon stance, you know it's coming. If they're channeling Facet of Light, it's coming soon. Just stop attacking and they will only get a small tick of healing and the rest of the 3 sec buff is wasted.

That's much more counter play than a guardian or engi that will instantly go invincible with no way to tell ahead of time

ah yes the, its coming somewhere withing 10s, just do nothing 5Head, just never attack rev in dragon stance 5Head

This isn't rocket science. You see dragon stance, then you know it could be coming somewhere in there and just be ready to stop attacking when it happens. No different than counter-playing an ele and adapting your play based on on what element they're in except it's even simpler. You just stop attacking and then wipe the floor with the rev that is still at low health with no sustain left. You can attack and fight like normal when they're in dragon. You just stop when that heal icon shows up under their name. Not complicated.

dude its instant lol

Yes. I know. I addressed that. Hit them once and it's no big deal since it's a small packet of healing per hit. Other professions will get a nice meaty heal by pressing their heal, but the herald heal is small unless you keep attacking them when the buff is up.

Again. Not complicated.

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I don't think IL is broken If I had to nerf it, I would target the abuse cases:

  1. Make it so that Infuse Light does not heal damage from conditions that were applied before it became active. It does heal damage from conditions applied after it becomes active.

Not sure how one would code this in though, or if it's possible. If this ends up making them too condi weak, you can increase the condis cleansed by Renewing wave.

Alternate solution: Buff Expertise. I won't delve into why it should be added back in this comment, but longer lasting conditions means that a herald who uses IL to heal off of condis will still have to worry about the conditions ticking away on him after it ends. Herald has poor cleanse so cleansing them all will be a challenge for them.

  1. IL heals damage from lingering AoEs (Wells, symbols, traps, ect) at 33% effectiveness. Basically if it sits on the ground and isn't a part of your character, it heals for less.

Reducing Herald's ability to just heal to full off of ambient damage in a teamfight.

However, I would also:

  1. Infuse Light converts 150% of strike damage taken to healing.

If you're being a brainlet and you keep mashing into Infuse light you will be punished. If the Herald is using it intelegently to heal off of an enemy's burst skill, he will be rewarded more.

In summary, lessening the reward from more mindless applications of the skill. Increasing the reward from more skilled usage of the skill.

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Shao.7236 said:I can't see how those complains make much sense. Even Trapper Runes deserve to stay and have an ICD instead because the ease of access is the broken aspect, not the effect.

Well I would even agree with that. I just think high damage should also be met with small sustain and I say that as a Guardian main. If someone can drop 10 stacks burn on you they should also drop faster and the other way around. ICD sounds great to me

Trapper DH already does drop fast, just not to melee. Pressure them from range after F3 is gone and avoid F1 pull and they're quite literally helpless.

You fortot to say that once they use thier f1 they los 80% of thier damage

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@"Kuma.1503" said:I don't think IL is broken If I had to nerf it, I would target the abuse cases:

  1. Make it so that Infuse Light does not heal damage from conditions that were applied before it became active. It does heal damage from conditions applied after it becomes active.

Not sure how one would code this in though, or if it's possible. If this ends up making them too condi weak, you can increase the condis cleansed by Renewing wave.

Alternate solution: Buff Expertise. I won't delve into why it should be added back in this comment, but longer lasting conditions means that a herald who uses IL to heal off of condis will still have to worry about the conditions ticking away on him after it ends. Herald has poor cleanse so cleansing them all will be a challenge for them.

  1. IL heals damage from lingering AoEs (Wells, symbols, traps, ect) at 33% effectiveness. Basically if it sits on the ground and isn't a part of your character, it heals for less.

Reducing Herald's ability to just heal to full off of ambient damage in a teamfight.

However, I would also:

  1. Infuse Light converts 150% of strike damage taken to healing.

If you're being a brainlet and you keep mashing into Infuse light you will be punished. If the Herald is using it intelegently to heal off of an enemy's burst skill, he will be rewarded more.

In summary, lessening the reward from more mindless applications of the skill. Increasing the reward from more skilled usage of the skill.

Or increase self healing by 50% and make it last 2 seconds since this skill is pretty much a better Endure Pain, but in the current state can be used quite without much thought put through.

I would request to reduce Gaze of Darkness cooldown back to 20 seconds and let the reveal apply without the need of stealth if they do so.

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@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Yes, let's delete one of the most high skill builds in existence because a heal that you can largely negate by just not attacking them requires too much skill to counter play.

that would be counterplay if the skill didnt activate instantly

If they're in dragon stance, you know it's coming. If they're channeling Facet of Light, it's coming soon. Just stop attacking and they will only get a small tick of healing and the rest of the 3 sec buff is wasted.

That's much more counter play than a guardian or engi that will instantly go invincible with no way to tell ahead of time

ah yes the, its coming somewhere withing 10s, just do nothing 5Head, just never attack rev in dragon stance 5Head

This isn't rocket science. You see dragon stance, then you know it could be coming somewhere in there and just be ready to stop attacking when it happens. No different than counter-playing an ele and adapting your play based on on what element they're in except it's even simpler. You just stop attacking and then wipe the floor with the rev that is still at low health with no sustain left. You can attack and fight like normal when they're in dragon. You just stop when that heal icon shows up under their name. Not complicated.

dude its instant lol

Yes. I know. I addressed that. Hit them once and it's no big deal since it's a small packet of healing per hit. Other professions will get a nice meaty heal by pressing their heal, but the herald heal is small unless you keep attacking them when the buff is up.

Again. Not complicated.

if you throw 8k dmg skill into herald and he reacts with heal, its over 10k healing already, coupled with 3s of damage immunity, there is no time to react.you dont stop attacking, its on revenant to fuck the skill up

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