Too much sustain in PvP

Jekkt.6045 · December 5, 2020

@Apolo.5942 said:
@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Apolo.5942 said:
@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@Apolo.5942 said:
@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@"paShadoWn.5723" said:Meta builds are only working in Plat+. Below, you can play whatever.A friendly reminder: high-ranked elitists should not ruin the game for the remaining majority by successfully requesting patches that benefit only them.

Friendly reminder: They balance the game around people who actually know how to play it. Not around people who are misusing their characters and mad because they don't get to just be plat+. Balancing around bad players is never a good thing.

For all the good its done for the game, and the several stages of pvp when it was essentially dead, may be they should balance around the average player instead.If anything there is too little sustain in pvp.

The explosive meta was the brainchild of a few streamers that no longer play the game and it nearly killed pvp.

This is not DOTA or League of Legends, you should simply not be able to down someone with a few keystrokes.

I don't see myself ever getting behind the idea of balancing a competitive pvp system around non-competitive players.

Why not, balancing around the standard instead of the over performer is the norm in most aspects of life.

Retirement age is set around the average age expectancy.The army zeroes its sight around the average infantry engagement distance, not extreme long shooting.Your minim passing grade is based on the minimum acceptable knowledge requirements to perform.Speed limits are set around average response times for the environment.Most sports court sizes are completely arbitrary and not based on physical performance.Most combat sports have arbitrary weight classes instead being all put into heavy weight.

then we will have kitten like akali from league of legends where good player can beat any other player on the planet with 100% success rate, where if you see akali and know she is good you can not ever hope to win, but hey. average akali stumbles and dies so its balanced. who cares that good joe has 90% winrate in 1500 games, when average jonny has 50% winrate. its balanced that way

So, your gripe is those good players end up with a much higher win rate than the players they're better than? Nah. Pass. Next?

no, my gripe is that the character balanced around " average " end up with absolutely no counterplay. to the point where 2 best players in the world facing eachother will know for sure that the one piloting akali will always win since she is so overtuned for people that know how to use it. This is why she was sitting at 48% winrate for plebeians where at pro play actually competent players could 1v2/1v3 other competent players. THIS is my gripe, im fine with good player smacking bad players, its as it should be.but when a good player grabs OP class/build/prof and other good player doesnt stand a chance there is a problem

Seems like a misunderstanding to me. You both agree on the very same thing. I do, too.

Balancing around the average joes is the best way to anger your veteran players, and make them consider leaving the game for good. As a side note, that's why I think challenge motes are an effective approach to PvE - it doesn't underline either party. PvP's a different beast, though.

Really?, lets say the worst happens and at the very top end of performance you only have a handful of viable builds that can exploit extreme skill, while at the average joe level you get extreme diversity.

How is this any worse than it is today with only a handful of viable builds at all levels? MMR DOES EXISTS and it is there for a reason.

you're misunderstanding something.

to simplify:build skill cap is irrelevant for the top level, because being at the top requires you to be among the best by definition. skill cap is only relevant for everything below top level.

this is all theoretical, so take it with a grain of salt:

if we assume the best players in the game play their build at 100% efficiency, it won't matter if it's the hardest or the easiest build in the game.

the problem is average performance (gold and low plat). let's say build a and build b are equally strong at the top level but build a is really easy and build b really hard. build a will likely outperform everything else and build b will probably be complete trash tier at average levels of performance.

that's the tricky part. you can either leave both as they are, because both are equally strong when played to their maximum capability, or you can try to make build a harder while keeping it as strong by increasing the skill ceiling and build b easier by increasing the skill floor.

obviously it's not as simple as i describe it here. often times hard builds are more flexible than easy builds. but the gist of it is the same: easy builds and hard builds can be equally strong at the top level.

now back to your question. what happens if only a handful of builds are viable at top level (i'll leave the stuff about extreme skill away because it's not relevant). either the top builds need to be nerfed or other builds need to be buffed (without making them broken at lower levels).

Leonidrex.5649 · December 5, 2020

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Apolo.5942 said:
@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@Apolo.5942 said:
@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
@"paShadoWn.5723" said:Meta builds are only working in Plat+. Below, you can play whatever.A friendly reminder: high-ranked elitists should not ruin the game for the remaining majority by successfully requesting patches that benefit only them.