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Why no monetization of LW episodes?


Anchoku.8142

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@DoomNexus.5324 said:Also.. More money doesn't hurt, at least I don't think NCSoft would complain if Anet had more profit.. So even IF they made enough from the gem shop there is still nothing wrong that they want to get paid for actual content they developed.

Would that actually lead to more profits, or would it just drive players away, who might buy something in the future?I can't see how they would get more profits, when players, who occasionally buy things from the Gem Store, start to leave the game becausebetween-expansions content is no longer free.After all, free content between expansions is one of the stronger points for GW2.

I certainly wouldn't want to pay for Living World of the abysmal scale that Season 5 (and especially Episode 5) delivers.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@DoomNexus.5324 said:Also.. More money doesn't hurt, at least I don't think NCSoft would complain if Anet had more profit.. So even IF they made enough from the gem shop there is still nothing wrong that they want to get paid for actual content they developed.

Would that actually lead to more profits, or would it just drive players away, who might buy something in the future?I can't see how they would get more profits, when players, who occasionally buy things from the Gem Store, start to leave the game becausebetween-expansions content is no longer free.After all, free content between expansions is one of the stronger points for GW2.

I certainly wouldn't want to pay for Living World of the abysmal scale that Season 5 (and especially Episode 5) delivers.

Exactly, that's my point. It would either get paid by the people who are actually interested or wouldn't make enough money so Anet has to switch their content delivery.. Or just fuck all and continue and let people pay for stuff they don't want.Also I don't think it's one of the stronger points for GW2.. The content we get is almost all the time pretty abysmal, short lived and the only positive side of any Living Story (for me anyway) was some good farmable maps. Ditching the (mediocre at best) story would also speed up the development cycle.

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@Randulf.7614 said:But the lay offs were not known to be connected to gw2s finances, they were connected to what appeared to be unviable side projects

The problem with saying this might have prevented lay offs is that funding a game like gw2 - which isn’t a major AAA title - with compulsory paid dlc and expacs and micro transactions is that you squeeze your population too far and reduce it likely to levels which could have risked those lay offs coming earlier.

I’m not always a critical fan of LS, but I’m confident in believing it would have been a disaster to charge fully for it. They took a chance with free LS for loyal players and it paid off massively

Clearly the gw2 finances didnt allow them to expand their studio and list of games not to say that gw2 itself is in a pretty low point overall.

Other mmos have managed to find big success with charging for content because alot of ppl would rather fund the content outright and not buy or gamble on cosmetics for that.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@DoomNexus.5324 said:Also.. More money doesn't hurt, at least I don't think NCSoft would complain if Anet had more profit.. So even IF they made enough from the gem shop there is still nothing wrong that they want to get paid for actual content they developed.

Would that actually lead to more profits, or would it just drive players away, who might buy something in the future?I can't see how they would get more profits, when players, who occasionally buy things from the Gem Store, start to leave the game becausebetween-expansions content is no longer free.After all, free content between expansions is one of the stronger points for GW2.

I certainly wouldn't want to pay for Living World of the abysmal scale that Season 5 (and especially Episode 5) delivers.

It works for other mmos so certainly if theres good content that worth paying for theres a playerbase thats willing to buy that. (just look at the ppl that were asking for an expansion for years since pof even after ibs was announced.

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@"DoomNexus.5324" said:I'm wondering since LS1.. I HATE that my payments indirectly (or directly) support Anet making Living Stories. I'm not interested in the chapters at all and the only reason I may buy some would be if the map had an enjoyable farm.Also, why would you not monetize actual content?! By that logic they'd have to give away expansions for free as well imho.I mean.. if they earn enough money from the gem store then why lock bigger content updates behind paywalls and exclude the "poorer players" on the important stuff? And if they don't earn enough money then why give away dlc-like content updates for free?.. Pretty inconsistent if you ask me but on the other hand Anet has always been inconsistent af so nothing new I guess...

Look at ESO for example, they pump out WAY more content without flooding their cash shop as much and I'm preeetty confident it's because they monetize their dlcs and Anet doesn't.Also.. More money doesn't hurt, at least I don't think NCSoft would complain if Anet had more profit.. So even IF they made enough from the gem shop there is still nothing wrong that they want to get paid for actual content they developed.. That would be as if McDonalds gave away burgers and drinks for free but sell a bag and straw for 10 and 15€.Players who don't own Living Stories also don't miss out on anything important anyway imo. Even having them for open world farming is not that important, it's just nice to have an alternative to Silverwastes (Because who the kitten cares about the story anyway, it's boring af..)

Would highly appreciate a reasonable price tag on living story episodes ngl.

But I think the reason why they don't monetize the LS episodes is because they know exactly that it's not worth a lot and by forcing every player to own them, fanbois can defend Anet by saying "we get free content updates regularly, why do you complain?!".

There are many games that do not monetize the core gameplay - free-to-play games have been a thing for a while now. By removing the barrier to entry, the potential is there to increase the number of active players, who may then make discretionary purchases that they wouldn't make if they weren't playing. Some go P2W to make money, others don't. But for GW2 there'll be something similar going on: it's better for ANet's bottom line to get a lot of players into each new episode than a smaller number who are paying for each release.

I'd bet it's somewhat related to the ESO thing, in that their episodes aren't really worth buying every 2-3 months, whereas the ESO ones are - sort of. ESO's release cadence means if you're interested in story content but not dungeons, you only get two updates you might be interested in per year. It means you don't have to pay for content that frequently, but it also comes at a high risk of dropping out of the game entirely - I certainly did, given I'm not interested in their Skyrim chapters and I've been finding their "expansions" disappointingly small in geographical scale lately.

GW2 gets a free pass from me for all that, because they don't charge for whatever content they put out. I'm likely to continue playing, and thus contribute to a more active world for everyone else, even if the latest episode is not the sort of thing I'd pay a cent for. They probably make more money out of me for outfit and mount skins than they ever could off LS episodes anyway.

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@"Anchoku.8142" said:Why not charge a small fee (microtransaction) to purchase the episode before the next episode and increase it later? The fee could also be discounted but not eliminated with gems.Yeah, that is really a great idea to make sure that less people are coming back to the game and play the LS. What else can we do so that less people are playing the game?

Do you really think that player x will stop playing game x and say "Cool I can get back into Guild Wars 2 and as a reward I can buy a new story with my money! That is so great!" Instead of "Cool I can get back into Guild Wars 2 and as a reward I get for free a new story, but I must rush or I have to pay that with my money! That is so great!"

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@"kharmin.7683" said:Nothing is preventing the OP from buying gems with cash every time a LW episode is released. In fact, I encourage it.

And the OP (me) does make a point of buying gems with real money periodically to support continued game development. ;-)

The sad reality is that free cash flow matters a lot. If Arenanet has to change the rules to get it, I expect they will or slow/halt development, cut staff and move into a smaller office.

Some of you might think, "Well, if retail gem sales slow down, they just cut working hours or don't make as much," but that is not going to work.

If you love the game, pay a little real money once in a while and play the game a lot. Thank you all for reading and participating in this discussion. It shows you care about GW2 and it's future.

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@DoomNexus.5324 said:

@"Anchoku.8142" said:This should be a very old discussion inside Arenanet but I often wonder why Living World episodes are completely free for those who log in and play them?

Why not charge a small fee (microtransaction) to purchase the episode before the next episode and increase it later? The fee could also be discounted but not eliminated with gems.

The same could be applied for competitive play seasons while giving a bump up for in-game rewards or a guaranteed skin unlock.

The "every little bit of content is free" business model was fine in the first few LW seasons but does it still make sense?

Share your thought here!

I'm wondering since LS1.. I HATE that my payments indirectly (or directly) support Anet making Living Stories. I'm not interested in the chapters at all and the only reason I may buy some would be if the map had an enjoyable farm.Also, why would you not monetize actual content?! By that logic they'd have to give away expansions for free as well imho.I mean.. if they earn enough money from the gem store then why lock bigger content updates behind paywalls and exclude the "poorer players" on the important stuff? And if they don't earn enough money then why give away dlc-like content updates for free?.. Pretty inconsistent if you ask me but on the other hand Anet has always been inconsistent af so nothing new I guess...

Look at ESO for example, they pump out WAY more content without flooding their cash shop as much and I'm preeetty confident it's because they monetize their dlcs and Anet doesn't.Also.. More money doesn't hurt, at least I don't think NCSoft would complain if Anet had more profit.. So even IF they made enough from the gem shop there is still nothing wrong that they want to get paid for actual content they developed.. That would be as if McDonalds gave away burgers and drinks for free but sell a bag and straw for 10 and 15€.Players who don't own Living Stories also don't miss out on anything important anyway imo. Even having them for open world farming is not that important, it's just nice to have an alternative to Silverwastes (Because who the kitten cares about the story anyway, it's boring af..)

Would highly appreciate a reasonable price tag on living story episodes ngl.

But I think the reason why they don't monetize the LS episodes is because they know exactly that it's not worth a lot and by forcing every player to own them, fanbois can defend Anet by saying "we get free content updates regularly, why do you complain?!".

I'm pretty sure they started making paid expansions only because players (and by extension the gaming media) kept going on and on about how the game didn't have expansions and therefore had no "real" development. So they stopped releasing living story updates for 9 months, bundled them together under the name Heart of Thorns and sold it as an expansion instead of a series of free updates. They recently tried to revert back to the purely free update model with Icebrood Saga, but again got a massive backlash about how no paid expansions means no real development, so they gutted IBS down to the bare minimum we're seeing now to focus on making a paid expansion marketed on the nostalgia fan-service of setting it in Cantha instead.

Also I disagree completely that ESO gets more content. Half their releases each year consist of nothing but a couple of dungeon paths. If you aren't in the minority of players who feel pressured to grind them endlessly hoping for the right drops it doesn't take long at all to complete 2 dungeon paths. Even the chapters and story DLC recently have been pretty minimal compared to what we used to get. Although I haven't played Markath, precisely because I don't currently feel like there's any incentive for me to get it yet. Maybe when it's inevitably discounted in a few months but as it is that up-front cost is definitely a barrier to entry to me. I can afford it, but I need to be convinced it's worth spending my money on it first.

Also the only reason they don't "flood their cash shop" is because the majority of new items these days go into crown crates instead. At least when black lion chests get updated in GW2 there's usually only 2-3 new items and maybe a new weapon set, not a full set of mount skins and 20+ other items. (I should have mixed feelings on this, because it has made ESO much cheaper for me now they add so few things directly to the crown store, but mostly I'm annoyed that a lot of stuff I would buy is instead locked behind gambling mechanics I refuse to engage with.)

I like both games but if the choice is between GW2's current system or going down to just 2 new maps/story releases (one sold as an expansion, one a paid living world release) and 4 dungeon paths released each yet I'll stick with the system we have.

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Tbf lw rn doesnt really warrant money, thats certainky rude to the developers but i dont think anyone would justify paying for the content we get rn.

But thats the issue, the are making free content so the scope of the update is already piss poor compaired to paid updates in other mmos.

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