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Re-examine the sentry and tower marked debuff.


SteepledHat.1345

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@Jables.4659 said:

Speaking of pointless, most thieves don't even need to stealth when fighting sentries so that kind of change would be double pointless.

They don't need stealth to fight sentry guards, they need stealth to fight other players in the vicinity of sentry guards.

I can say with full confidence that any decent thief (even those that utilizes stealth) doesn't always require such to fight other players and can still win despite not being able to stealth for more than 2-3 seconds at a time. Its about smart usage of that 2-3 seconds that they are able to stealth.

Does it hinder? Of course it does. Does it always turn the tides of a fight? Nope

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

Does it hinder? Of course it does. Does it always turn the tides of a fight? Nope

I'm really not trying to get into a whole thing here, but that is exactly the point. I'm a Mesmer main, but I enjoy hopping on Engineer, Ranger, and thief from time to time and with all of these classes I'm annoyed beyond belief when I end up in a 1v5 and need to get out of dodge. I have a perfect escape but some random flips a sentry and my mass invisibility ends after 2 seconds. Its just an awful mechanic.

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@Jables.4659 said:

Does it hinder? Of course it does. Does it always turn the tides of a fight? Nope

I'm really not trying to get into a whole thing here, but that is exactly the point. I'm a Mesmer main, but I enjoy hopping on Engineer, Ranger, and thief from time to time and with all of these classes I'm annoyed beyond belief when I end up in a 1v5 and need to get out of dodge. I have a perfect escape but some random flips a sentry and my mass invisibility ends after 2 seconds. Its just an awful mechanic.

And of course no sentry and you get to escape from 5 players every single time and of course that's perfectly cool and fun for everyone. The random had to take the sentry 5m before it's not like a big instant surprise surprise there's a sentry in some non-static spot so yeah that perfect escape foiled happens what once a month?

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@Jilora.9524 said:

And of course no sentry and you get to escape from 5 players every single time and of course that's perfectly cool and fun for everyone. The random had to take the sentry 5m before it's not like a big instant surprise surprise there's a sentry in some non-static spot so yeah that perfect escape foiled happens what once a monthIf I use my abilities well, sure. If I don't, no. Enemies still have reveal, cc, and their own mobility skills. If they use them better than I do they deserve the kill. I am perfectly okay with that. What I don't want is a mechanic built into WvW that drastically changes the way the game mode feels after 7 years while literally favoring the side with more players in small-scale fights.

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@Jables.4659 said:

And of course no sentry and you get to escape from 5 players every single time and of course that's perfectly cool and fun for everyone. The random had to take the sentry 5m before it's not like a big instant surprise surprise there's a sentry in some non-static spot so yeah that perfect escape foiled happens what once a monthIf I use my abilities well, sure. If I don't, no. Enemies still have reveal and their own mobility skills. if they use them better than I do they deserve the kill. I am perfectly okay with that. What I don't want is a mechanic built into WvW that drastically changed the way the game mode felt after 7 years and literally favors the side with more players in a smallscale fight.

Yes, everything favors the side that has more players because they have more players. You know where the sentry's spawn so if you want to engage 1 v 3 because stealth allows that and you only play the 4 classes w access to it then when it becomes a 1 v 5 and something dramatic happens like the sentry spawning in the exact same spot it always does and 90 percent of the time we watch the mez or thief still gets away. But once in a great while you get caught and killed that is not an issue. That is you getting punished for engaging 1 v 3 then 1 v 5 and any class w/o stealth doesn't have that huge bailout. So they add this easy avoidable mechanic to hinder you or you would die get caught even less. You basically are complaining your kill death ratio drops from 50-1 to 40-1 and you have to be aware of your surroundings for an npc that might turn a 1 v 3 fight disregarding the fact that you fight all day 1 v 3 and get kills and run off all day and we can't do anything but waste our time and that's cool but dying once in a while to you isn't.

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@"Jilora.9524" said:

Yes, everything favors the side that has more players because they have more players. You know where the sentry's spawn so if you want to engage 1 v 3 because stealth allows that and you only play the 4 classes w access to it then when it becomes a 1 v 5 and something dramatic happens like the sentry spawning in the exact same spot it always does and 90 percent of the time we watch the mez or thief still gets away. But once in a great while you get caught and killed that is not an issue. That is you getting punished for engaging 1 v 3 then 1 v 5 and any class w/o stealth doesn't have that huge bailout. So they add this easy avoidable mechanic to hinder you or you would die get caught even less. You basically are complaining your kill death ratio drops from 50-1 to 40-1 and you have to be aware of your surroundings for an npc that might turn a 1 v 3 fight disregarding the fact that you fight all day 1 v 3 and get kills and run off all day and we can't do anything but waste our time and that's cool but dying once in a while to you isn't.

Did I say I only play the classes with access to it? Also, its not just those four, Guardian has access with trapper runes. Its funny that you mention that as though its a terrible thing. Last I checked, Revenant was pretty powerful with 0 stealth access. Historically, warrior has been a powerful roamer with 0 stealth access. Currently, Necro is probably the easiest pickup class to play and do well on with 0 stealth access. Fresh Air Weaver is perfectly capable of "1v3 and get kills and run off" with 0 stealth access. And to your main point, I am generally more than willing to take a fight to its inevitable conclusion if there is even a snowballs chance that I will win because The most fun parts of this game are fighting a 1v1 between two truly skilled opponents and fighting a 1vX where the combined power of the enemies makes them equivalent to a truly skilled opponent.

Just to prove the point, here's a 1vX where I could've easily escaped without dying but chose to stay despite the fact that I had just made a terrible mistake in underestimating the range and damage of flamethrower kit. My belief that marked is bad for the game is not about "get kills and run off all day", its about not wanting a class like Mesmer that is already at a huge disadvantage in a lot of fights to be at an even bigger disadvantage.

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@Jables.4659 said:

@"Jilora.9524" said:

Yes, everything favors the side that has more players because they have more players. You know where the sentry's spawn so if you want to engage 1 v 3 because stealth allows that and you only play the 4 classes w access to it then when it becomes a 1 v 5 and something dramatic happens like the sentry spawning in the exact same spot it always does and 90 percent of the time we watch the mez or thief still gets away. But once in a great while you get caught and killed that is not an issue. That is you getting punished for engaging 1 v 3 then 1 v 5 and any class w/o stealth doesn't have that huge bailout. So they add this easy avoidable mechanic to hinder you or you would die get caught even less. You basically are complaining your kill death ratio drops from 50-1 to 40-1 and you have to be aware of your surroundings for an npc that might turn a 1 v 3 fight disregarding the fact that you fight all day 1 v 3 and get kills and run off all day and we can't do anything but waste our time and that's cool but dying once in a while to you isn't.

Did I say I only play the classes with access to it? Also, its not just those four, Guardian has access with trapper runes. Its funny that you mention that as though its a terrible thing. Last I checked, Revenant was pretty powerful with 0 stealth access. Historically, warrior has been a powerful roamer with 0 stealth access. Currently, Necro is probably the easiest pickup class to play and do well on with 0 stealth access. Fresh Air Weaver is perfectly capable of "1v3 and get kills and run off" with 0 stealth access. And to your main point, I am generally more than willing to take a fight to its inevitable conclusion if there is even a snowballs chance that I will win because The most fun parts of this game are fighting a 1v1 between two truly skilled opponents and fighting a 1vX where the combined power of the enemies makes them equivalent to a truly skilled opponent.

Just to prove the point, here's a 1vX where I could've easily escaped without dying but chose to stay despite the fact that I had just made a
terrible mistake
in underestimating the range and damage of flamethrower kit. My belief that marked is bad for the game is not about "get kills and run off all day", its about not wanting a class like Mesmer that is already at a huge disadvantage in a lot of fights to be at an even bigger disadvantage.

I'm a Mesmer main, but I enjoy hopping on Engineer, Ranger, and thief so yeah you mentioned it. I saw that and if you list 4 of 9 it means to me you mostly play 4 classes w stealth not that you never play other classes just you don't play then enough to mention or you would've said I play all classesOk, now your arguing about non topic shit.Plenty can engage 1 v 3 of course. Plenty of classes have strong builds and can disengage and run but the main culprits are thief and mez. Sure a war or ele can get away but a necro and rev and guard probably won't.This is about sentrys and watchtowers and how it slightly affects stealth classes and easily avoidable but somehow it's this major issue when if you are honest with yourself it almost never affects anyone other then to mark you on the map and draw someone like me to fight you. But to say that you are dying or being affected by static sentrys of course deep in opponents territory is affecting you so much it's unfair is just silly.There would be so many less fight w/o these too. I see 3 dots going nc I go. I see 20 dots at a tower you announce it otherwise these objectives are just gone and no fight at all. I can get to nc w/o being marked. I can take camp s bay w/o being marked. I can traverse the whole map w/o being marked as a reaper if I want so you guys w stealth and shit ton mobility claiming your gameplay is affected is laughable

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Ya you got kills and almost 2 more. When I say things like you can engage and run off I am directing that at mez and thiefs in general not at you because I don't know how you play. For every 1 time a mez or thief stays to the end of the fight to die 50 of you mez and thief run off. So great you stayed but I bet there are plenty of times you sauntered off after 3 or 4 kills because of stealth and mobility. How fun is that if you on the other side. And amazingly no sentry spawned to ruin that fight for you

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@Jilora.9524 said:That is you getting punished for engaging 1 v 3 then 1 v 5 and any class w/o stealth doesn't have that huge bailout. So they add this easy avoidable mechanic to hinder you or you would die get caught even less. You basically are complaining your kill death ratio drops from 50-1 to 40-1 and you have to be aware of your surroundings for an npc that might turn a 1 v 3 fight disregarding the fact that you fight all day 1 v 3 and get kills and run off all day and we can't do anything but waste our time and that's cool but dying once in a while to you isn't.

Omg, fking thank you. I been saying this, lmao.

I do agree with people that Watch Tower could use a rework, and I understand how it can be unenjoyable for a Thief to have to play around it... But having a basic sense of awareness is all you need to avoid it. You know, what everyone else needs to have if they don't want to get +1'd at a bad time.

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@Shroud.2307 said:

@"Jilora.9524" said:That is you getting punished for engaging 1 v 3 then 1 v 5 and any class w/o stealth doesn't have that huge bailout. So they add this easy avoidable mechanic to hinder you or you would die get caught even less. You basically are complaining your kill death ratio drops from 50-1 to 40-1 and you have to be aware of your surroundings for an npc that might turn a 1 v 3 fight disregarding the fact that you fight all day 1 v 3 and get kills and run off all day and we can't do anything but waste our time and that's cool but dying once in a while to you isn't.

Omg, kitten
thank you.
I been saying this, lmao.

I do agree with people that Watch Tower could use a rework, and I understand how it can be unenjoyable for a Thief to have to play around it... But having a basic sense of awareness is all you need to avoid it. You know, what everyone else needs to have if they don't want to get +1'd at a bad time.

Most thieves would likely agree with how you put it but not everyone playing a thief at the moment is all that into being their best thief self and are usually the same kind of people who ask for help in thief forum with their build or issue (which is great) or complain in WvW forum. What people can't agree with is all of the exaggeration or flat out lying or packing a bunch of other unrelated issues into it. When I see a bunch of posts saying "delete thief" and "thieves get unlimited everything all of the time", it sucks to then see a nonsensical change to a skill like Infiltrators Arrow when there were more precise changes that could have been made that didn't effect non problematic builds.

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