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Elite Specialization Discussion - End of Dragons


DanielPienaar.8094

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@VocalThought.9835 said:

@"draxynnic.3719" said:I've seen it. I've also seen some very detailed analyses of it.

One large shield is good. Two large shields tend to get in the way of attacking with either, and give you a large blind zone around you that makes it hard to defend yourself. Like I said, a lot of people who haven't trained in fighting with a large shield underestimate how much of a blind spot it can create, especially if you raise it to defend your head. With sword and shield, you can adopt a stance where the sword defends your head until you use it to strike. With two shields, you can't effectively adopt that stance (it relies on using the length of the blade to protect your head when your hand is above and behind your head).

With equal skill, I wouldn't bet on someone with two shields against someone with sword and shield. I don't think I'd even bet on someone with two shields against someone with a sword alone. It might be a long fight, but the sword offers longer reach, greater agility, and a more potentially damaging attack - sooner or later the guy with a sword will find an opening or a blind spot to get a thrust in.

Sure, if you've got one guy who's trained for twenty years with dual shields and another guy who's just picked up a sword for the first time, the guy with two shields could win. But like a lot of exotic weapon combinations, it's one of those situations where the guy who spends the same amount of time training with a conventional set of weapons is still going to be ahead.

You keep saying "Large Shield" No one is suggesting a "Large Shield". I just said "Shield". Plus the game doesn't even have a shield size option like it does for Bow and Swords, so I don't know what you're referring to. Plus, when ANet give an introduces a new weapon to a profession, they typically create a new weapon skins, so players can always pick a skins they want, small or large, but it'll still just be a Shield.

The main problem for me is: why should Anet make a systemic change like allowing offhand weapons in the mainhand if they don't have to?

All classes still have enough weapons open for elite specs without them having to use such tricks to artificially increase the pool of weapons they can chose from.

"Systemic Change"? I guess I don't see making a "main hand only" or an "offhand weapon only" dual welded a systemic change. I can understand if you said aquatic weapons, but this is simply having the weapon in another hand like most of their other weapons. The only weapon that would need more care would be a main hand Shield due to positioning and stowing.

The reason for allowing these weapons to be used would be to stick with the theme of the profession. If any profession was to use a Scepter in an off hand or a focus in the main hand, would be a spell caster and if anyone would be able to use a Shield in their main hand would definitely be the Warrior.

The point of thinking of off hand weapons as a main hand option doesn't have to be taboo or against a cardinal rule. It's adding to a creative process without straying too far from what's implemented. I think offhand/main hand only weapons are more of a "happen-stance" than something that ANet was focused on having.

Somewhere in the back-end, the game knows to treat them differently. Off-hands have their own category in the bank wardrobe and a double-click or right-click command within the inventory gets handled differently. I'm not sure how UI layout + coding can be happenstance.

Plus, wouldn't asymmetrical shields and foci need to receive mirrored models? I'm just skeptical of the return on investment. I don't know how much work a change like this would create, but it's guaranteed at least some. Meanwhile, it's just opinion that the remaining weapons can't fit Warrior, so how many classes really require this change to justify it?

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Asymmetric models could be a problem, although it might not be too difficult to just mirror-flip them around. Might be worth having a close look at the one-handed weapons to see how they've done it with those, come to think on it.

The back-end differences in their treatment would probably be more significant, though.

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Since we're sharing, here are my ideas for e-specs!

(SOME OF THESE ARE STILL WORKS-IN-PROGRESS, SO KEEP AN OPEN MIND WHEN RESPONDING)

Guardian/Avenger: dps-focused spec.Lore: Not wanting his skills to go to waste, a faction of Cantha's guardians, who came to be known as "Avengers," incorporated Shiro Tagachi's twin sword style into their fighting techniques, allowing them to strike at enemies even faster then beforeWeapon: Off-hand swordArmor: ShoulderProfession mechanic: Virtues become Furies*. a combination of Tempest's overload and warrior's adrenaline, Each fury can charge up overtime with each attack. Once charged they can release an AoE field that has different effects depending on the fury used. Furious Justice; damage/burning, Furious Resolve; healing/condi cleanse, and Furious Courage; stability/resistance. The major drawback is that they can only focus on one fury at a time so you need to keep that in mind during battleUtility skills: Rage. These skills can speed up the charging time of furies when used

Revenant/Savant: dps-focused (plus some condi) spec.Lore: Oola and Zinn were master and apprentice turned bitter rivals in the world of golemancy. Now revenants can channel both of their legends and talents as SavantsWeapon: Scepter, focus, or dagger**Armor: GlovesProfession mechanic: Channels the legends of golemancers, Oola and Zinn, doing so causes a classic golem to appear that never strays too far from your current location. Grants unique profession skills, Zinn's Enhancements to boost golem's stats and your own, and Oola's Necrosis to allow you and your golem to siphon health and convert boons into conditions. Utility skills: Legendary Savant skills. Unique only to savants, these allow the player to command your golem to use special attacks like rocket punch, missile barrage, etc. Elite skill causes golem to self-destruct, knocking back opponents and releasing poisonous gas and rendering utility skills useless until re-summoned with healing skill, similar to Ventari's tablet.

Warrior/Monk: Support-focused spec.Lore: Naming themselves after the monks of old, these warriors seek inner peace and balance, even in the heat of battleWeapon: Melee staffArmor: GlovesProfession Mechanic: Serenity. Similar to the Berserk mode of berserkers, it is a unique burst skill that alters existing burst skills to grant different boons to themselves and allies depending on which burst skill is usedUtility skills: Mantras.

Engineer/Apothecary or Aethermancer***:

4a. Apothecary: Condi-focused specLore: Apothecaries are masters of chemicals that have studied various elixirs and poisons over the years and uses this knowledge to enhance their fighting capabilitiesWeapon: main hand/dual wield axes***Armor: GlovesProfession mechanic: n/aUtility skill: Chemicals. similar to Thief's venom skills, these can add additional conditions and/or boons to your weapon skills or create aoe fields that can harm enemies and buff allies.Note: This could potentially bring back old traits such as Acidic Elixirs and Acid coating.

4b: Aethermancer: CC-focused specLore: By reverse engineering the technology from the Aetherblade pirates, Engineers are now able to channel aether magic through scientific means as AethermancersWeapon: Main-hand maceArmor: GlovesProfession mechanic: N/AUtility skills: Aether weapons. Summons weapons of pure aether energy to attack or defend, similar to guardian's spirit weapons

Elementalist/Spellslinger: Ranged/dps-focused specLore: Some elementalists are not able to wield magic like their brethren. Fortunately, the ones in Cantha found a workaround for that by focusing the elements into specially made ammunition, allowing them to cast spells through pistols at great distances by simply pulling the triggerWeapon: Dual pistolsArmor: HelmProfession mechanic: Attunements become ammunition. Spellslingers are able to attack without needing to be attuned to a specific element, and instead creates bullets that are based on one of the four elements. These bullets last for about 15 charges, but this can be increased to 20 through e-spec trait. they're able to switch to other ammo like before but if you do with while another set of ammo is active, you will lose the leftover charges and will have to wait until cooldown to use them againUtility skills: Tricks

Ranger/Warden: Dps/CC-focused specLore: Wardens were mysterious creatures that protected the Echovald Forests of Cantha. Now Rangers can learn their secrets and carry on their legacy of defending nature from those who would exploit itWeapon HammerArmor: BootsProfession mechanic: Build energy during combat to use unique skill to temporarily transform into large tree monster.Utility skills: Punishments

Thief/Gangleader: DPS/support-focused specLore: Various gangs run rampant in the criminal underworld. As a gangleader, you will command your underlings to do your bidding while aiding them in battleWeapon: Main-hand/Dual mace(s) or Greatsword***Armor: GlovesProfession mechanic: N/AUtility skills: Minions. Summon gang members with unique abilities and effects, similar to Necromancer's minions

Mesmer: (I wasn't able to come up with anything that could work for mesmers, so now I support this person's idea called "The Psychomancer." Check it out here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/58284/the-psychomancer-mesmer-elite-specialization-suggestion )

Necromancer/Seance: Support/ranged-focused specLore: Seances seek to bring peace to restless souls and protect them from otherworldly creatures that would harm them. They can also summon spirits to aid them in battleWeapon: Longbow/shortbow***Armor: GlovesProfession Mechanic: Replaces Death Shroud with Spirit Shroud. This grants unique skills that heals and buffs themselves and other players as well as do damage. #5 skill grants the user distortion for a few secondsUtility skills: Spirits. Similar to Ranger's spirits, seance's summon ghostly souls that cause effects depending on which ones where summoned. These skills can also be traited to grant distortion when activated

Name subject to changewould like to see a combination of two of these, even if it is unlikely that will happen.Either one could work

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@Runiir.6425 said:All of these ideas and NO ONE suggested giving the Guardian 2 pistols and calling them Sheriff?

Sheriff.... in an Asian setting... whut?

Dont kno if u noticed but no spec suggestions for any class for the most part have taken any consideration of the expacs general theme. Warrior for example...what's the first asian warrior themes come to mind, or thief' as its obviously a warrior/ fighter or used to be but now is outlaw'ish in nature.My vote goes to a spear warrior, rev already has the chinese warrior vibe with its staff skills and dragon themes. Warrior could have a mix of offensive and support options and use spear like attacks unlike the DD or revs staff skills.Thief ronin with OH sword, quick offense skills and defenses less reliant on stealth and teleports.Those of course are suggestions for ideas that follow the theme, which obviously probably wont happen, also not following the theme may allow more creativity.

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Chinese samurai? That's really not a thing...

I think there's a degree to which the flavour can follow. After all, if you look at the PoF elite specs mechanically, none of them really shout Middle Eastern/African themes. Maybe the Mirage, since the entire specialisation was built around the 'Mirage' key word and that's associated with deserts, but that could have been associated with any desert region. But all of them except the Renegade have some connection to Elona fluff-wise - Weavers were inspired by djinn, Firebrands were keepers of Elonian history, and so on.

Similar connections could be made here. For instance, consider the popular 'support warrior' concept. The first Ascendant Emperor of Cantha was a Warrior Monk. I'm sure ArenaNet could bring in a tie-in from that. Like the PoF elite specs, the broad concept is region-neutral, and the fluff can then be made to fit whichever region Arenanet decides to associate it with.

Something like 'Sheriff', on the other hand, is very clearly coming from a Western origin. Give it pistols, and everyone's likely to be immediately thinking Wild West.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:Chinese samurai? That's really not a thing...

I think there's a degree to which the flavour can follow. After all, if you look at the PoF elite specs mechanically, none of them really shout Middle Eastern/African themes. Maybe the Mirage, since the entire specialisation was built around the 'Mirage' key word and that's associated with deserts, but that could have been associated with any desert region. But all of them except the Renegade have some connection to Elona fluff-wise - Weavers were inspired by djinn, Firebrands were keepers of Elonian history, and so on.

Similar connections could be made here. For instance, consider the popular 'support warrior' concept. The first Ascendant Emperor of Cantha was a Warrior Monk. I'm sure ArenaNet could bring in a tie-in from that. Like the PoF elite specs, the broad concept is region-neutral, and the fluff can then be made to fit whichever region Arenanet decides to associate it with.

Something like 'Sheriff', on the other hand, is very clearly coming from a Western origin. Give it pistols, and everyone's likely to be immediately thinking Wild West.

I said asian, is east asian not include Japanese cuz Japan's in east Asia no? Also the expac is oriental themed, no spacific japanese or chinese context has been given for the expac.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Chinese samurai? That's really not a thing...

I think there's a degree to which the flavour can follow. After all, if you look at the PoF elite specs mechanically, none of them really shout Middle Eastern/African themes. Maybe the Mirage, since the entire specialisation was built around the 'Mirage' key word and that's associated with deserts, but that could have been associated with any desert region. But all of them except the Renegade have some connection to Elona fluff-wise - Weavers were inspired by djinn, Firebrands were keepers of Elonian history, and so on.

Similar connections could be made here. For instance, consider the popular 'support warrior' concept. The first Ascendant Emperor of Cantha was a Warrior Monk. I'm sure ArenaNet could bring in a tie-in from that. Like the PoF elite specs, the broad concept is region-neutral, and the fluff can then be made to fit whichever region Arenanet decides to associate it with.

Something like 'Sheriff', on the other hand, is very clearly coming from a Western origin. Give it pistols, and everyone's likely to be immediately thinking Wild West.

I said asian, is east asian not include Japanese cuz Japan's in east Asia no? Also the expac is oriental themed, no spacific japanese or chinese context has been given for the expac.

You did say "chinese samurai warrior". That's either implying that "chinese samurai" is a thing (which they're not, samurai is purely a Japanese concept where I don't think China ever had a direct equivalent) or a really unfortunate way to write "samurai/chinese warrior".

Point is, though, at the point of talking about what elite specialisations bring to the table, they don't have to be oriental-themed, since a concept that's fairly culture-agnostic could them be given fluff that has it coming from Cantha. However, they're probably not going to do something that is specific to some OTHER culture like a Wild West gunslinging sheriff.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Runiir.6425 said:All of these ideas and NO ONE suggested giving the Guardian 2 pistols and calling them Sheriff?

Sheriff.... in an Asian setting... whut?

Dont kno if u noticed but no spec suggestions for any class for the most part have taken any consideration of the expacs general theme. Warrior for example...what's the first asian warrior themes come to mind, or thief' as its obviously a warrior/ fighter or used to be but now is outlaw'ish in nature.My vote goes to a spear warrior, rev already has the chinese samurai warrior vibe with its staff skills and dragon themes. Warrior could have a mix of offensive and support options and use spear like attacks unlike the DD or revs staff skills.Thief ronin with OH sword, quick offense skills and defenses less reliant on stealth and teleports.Those of course are suggestions for ideas that follow the theme, which obviously probably wont happen, also not following the theme may allow more creativity.

My own suggestion for the engineer elite spec, plague doctor, actually does consider the actual theme of the expac. It directly ties in with the lore of factions, specifically the Am Fah, which were trying to use the plague as a measure to strengthen their warriors instead of seeing it as the flesh forging curse it truly was.

Expand that idea to engineers trying to use poisonous fumes and chemicals to strengtehn allies and voila, plague doctor spec with lore ties.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Chinese samurai? That's really not a thing...

I think there's a degree to which the flavour can follow. After all, if you look at the PoF elite specs mechanically, none of them really shout Middle Eastern/African themes. Maybe the Mirage, since the entire specialisation was built around the 'Mirage' key word and that's associated with deserts, but that could have been associated with any desert region. But all of them except the Renegade have some connection to Elona fluff-wise - Weavers were inspired by djinn, Firebrands were keepers of Elonian history, and so on.

Similar connections could be made here. For instance, consider the popular 'support warrior' concept. The first Ascendant Emperor of Cantha was a Warrior Monk. I'm sure ArenaNet could bring in a tie-in from that. Like the PoF elite specs, the broad concept is region-neutral, and the fluff can then be made to fit whichever region Arenanet decides to associate it with.

Something like 'Sheriff', on the other hand, is very clearly coming from a Western origin. Give it pistols, and everyone's likely to be immediately thinking Wild West.

I said asian, is east asian not include Japanese cuz Japan's in east Asia no? Also the expac is oriental themed, no spacific japanese or chinese context has been given for the expac.

You did say "chinese samurai warrior". That's either implying that "chinese samurai" is a thing (which they're not, samurai is purely a Japanese concept where I don't think China ever had a direct equivalent) or a really unfortunate way to write "samurai/chinese warrior".

Point is, though, at the point of talking about what elite specialisations bring to the table, they don't have to be oriental-themed, since a concept that's fairly culture-agnostic could them be given fluff that has it coming from Cantha. However, they're probably not going to do something that is specific to some OTHER culture like a Wild West gunslinging sheriff.

Ur right, my bad as it was a mistake, I meant to say rev already has the chinese warrior vibe with its staff skills and dragons themed skills. Put a halbert like skin on the staff and rev skills fit the theme well.

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