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Ideas for fixing raid


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1 - no time2 - fix damage system to avoid rotations3 - TIERS4 - Story Mode5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 mastery7 - cm still activable on choice8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like that

so those are my point list to improve raids and make those enjoinable by all kind of players, so now can we argue about those point make your pov about and make Anet fix the situation

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@LordMorgul.9845 said:1 - no time

The timer isn't why players fail.

2 - fix damage system to avoid rotations

There's nothing wrong with rotations and every single build can have them.

3 - TIERS

Tiers wouldn't resolve anything as the mechanics would still need to be learned and the weakened versions would be ignored in lower tiers.

4 - Story Mode

There's very little story in raids and a one and done mode doesn't wouldn't be worth the effort to make.

5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)

What's wrong with all of the guides created by players? All guides and builds are for all players.

6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 mastery

No. We don't need more power creep.

7 - cm still activable on choice

You can do CMs anytime.

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@LordMorgul.9845 said:5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)

A big part of the raid experience is to figure out boss mechanics by yourself, a guide made by Anet wouldn't make sense. There are already a lot of good guides out there.

@LordMorgul.9845 said:2 - fix damage system to avoid rotationsI don't really get that point. There will be always an optimal rotation except u remove all Skills but autoattacks.

Best way to fix raids would be release more of them. Maybe with "easy modes" on strike mission level to affect a larger playerbase. Also real repetable CMs would be great.

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@LordMorgul.9845 said:1 - no timeIf anything the timers should be way shorter2 - fix damage system to avoid rotationsWoW and FF do have rotations and are quite successful with it. How would you change it? Everything except aa is a dps loss? Why are you even playing an action combat game if you want afk arena gameplay.3 - TIERSWe have easy and normal currently. Nobody does normal though because its a 1 time reward.

5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)There are tons of guides for your average playerbase.6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 masteryThis would make them more toxic and its one of the only mmos where skill matters more than time invested.

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@"LordMorgul.9845" said:1 - no timegood. very good idea. Also reworkd all achiv in raid that depend from time.

2 - fix damage system to avoid rotationsin most cases for many classes we not have rotation, only skills priority. Change you holosmith to more easy class.

3 - TIERStier to complex, and too spread for 10x content

4 - Story Modeno please. All OW is story mode for raid

5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid,already done. use search system to find a lot of videos how people raid.

6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 masteryleg is same is ascend . it is ok. But increase mastery base like 1% = 1 mastery will break some mechanic, to much changes, not thanks.

7 - cm still activable on choiceit is already still activable.

8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrselfwe already have it. https://www.speedrun.com/gw2[qT] wins.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@LordMorgul.9845 said:1 - no time

The timer isn't why players fail.Correction. While timer usually isn't the
direct
cause of failure, but it can, and does often cause failures by removing some options from the table, as well as putting the group under pressure. Doubt removing it would help the current raids any, but it would be a possibility for any potential easy mode.

2 - fix damage system to avoid rotations

There's nothing wrong with rotations and every single build can have them.That's highly subjective. There's nothing wrong about them
to you
. It doesn't mean there's nothing wrong about them to others.As i see it, there's nothing wrong about the
idea
of rotations, but there's indeed quite a lot of problems with how this got implemented in GW2.

3 - TIERS

Tiers wouldn't resolve anything as the mechanics would still need to be learned and the weakened versions would be ignored in lower tiers.As we already know, this in itself is a highly debatable issue, big enough to be worth a separate thread. And, again, very subjective one. For me, i will say that you are just plain wrong. Sure, tiers would not resolve
some
issues, but they would help with others. You not caring about those other issues doesn't mean they don't exist or would not be helped by tiers.

4 - Story Mode

There's very little story in raids and a one and done mode doesn't wouldn't be worth the effort to make.This i agree. Dungeon story modes were for the most part a failure. Let's not repeat that. Especially when easy mode should work good enough for it.

5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)

What's wrong with all of the guides created by players? All guides and builds are for all players.Considering how a lot of encounters are now being done in ways different (but more efficient, and
easier
) than the strategies originally envisioned by devs, and how some encounters can have several valid strats depending on group preferences, i don't see how dev-sanctioned guides would help.Also, for the issues brought up, if anything, it would make the matters worse. If anyone thinks that current third-party-created strats are too restricting, imagine what would happen if the strategies were official.

6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 mastery

No. We don't need more power creep.Agreed.

@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:For some1 that raids alot, your suggestion didn't "fix" raids. Actually it destroyed raids.Considering that none of those ever got implemented (except for the point 7, which was present from the start), that's just factually not true.

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@"LordMorgul.9845" said:1 - no time2 - fix damage system to avoid rotations3 - TIERS4 - Story Mode5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 mastery7 - cm still activable on choice8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like that

so those are my point list to improve raids and make those enjoinable by all kind of players, so now can we argue about those point make your pov about and make Anet fix the situation

So basicly bring mm and let its minions kill boss for you

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The timer isn't why players fail.Correction. While timer usually isn't the
direct
cause of failure, but it can, and does often cause failures by removing some options from the table, as well as putting the group under pressure. Doubt removing it would help the current raids any, but it would be a possibility for any potential easy mode.

It really doesn’t once you calculate the minimum DPS a group would need if they spent the full duration of the timer. Groups fail to the mechanics; not the timer.

2 - fix damage system to avoid rotations

There's nothing wrong with rotations and every single build can have them.That's highly subjective. There's nothing wrong about them
to you
. It doesn't mean there's nothing wrong about them to others.As i see it, there's nothing wrong about the
idea
of rotations, but there's indeed quite a lot of problems with how this got implemented in GW2.

You need to understand what a rotation is. Practically any way that a player commonly uses their skills is a rotation. Mashing their skills is a rotation. Removing rotations is practically impossible.

3 - TIERS

Tiers wouldn't resolve anything as the mechanics would still need to be learned and the weakened versions would be ignored in lower tiers.As we already know, this in itself is a highly debatable issue, big enough to be worth a separate thread. And, again, very subjective one. For me, i will say that you are just plain wrong. Sure, tiers would not resolve
some
issues, but they would help with others. You not caring about those other issues doesn't mean they don't exist or would not be helped by tiers.

The mechanics don’t really have all that much scalability. This is especially true if you only add one additional “difficulty mode”.

What will happen is that players will ignore the mechanics if it’s not dangerous enough to the party. You see this during world bosses as well as the ice construct strike mission.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

As i see it, there's nothing wrong about the
idea
of rotations, but there's indeed quite a lot of problems with how this got implemented in GW2.

You need to understand what a rotation is. Practically any way that a player commonly uses their skills is a rotation. Mashing their skills is a rotation. Removing rotations is practically impossible.Then we understand the term differently. For me, random mashing buttons is not a rotation. It is random mashing buttons. Rotation for me is having a certain sequence of skills you need to follow in the right order. The alternative would be a dynamic system, where you use skills according to the current situation and certain priorities, and have no set rotation to follow.

As we already know, this in itself is a highly debatable issue, big enough to be worth a separate thread. And, again, very subjective one. For me, i will say that you are just plain wrong. Sure, tiers would not resolve
some
issues, but they would help with others. You not caring about those other issues doesn't mean they don't exist or would not be helped by tiers.

The mechanics don’t really have all that much scalability. This is especially true if you only add one additional “difficulty mode”.

What will happen is that players will ignore the mechanics if it’s not dangerous enough to the party. You see this during world bosses as well as the ice construct strike mission.Like i said, you caring only about certain issues doesn't make all the others disappear. You are still thinking only in the context of progression, of easy modes being a training ground for the modes above. That's not the only (or the best) use of the tiers idea though.Just look at FF XIV, for example. They happen to use the idea far better.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

As i see it, there's nothing wrong about the
idea
of rotations, but there's indeed quite a lot of problems with how this got implemented in GW2.

You need to understand what a rotation is. Practically any way that a player commonly uses their skills is a rotation. Mashing their skills is a rotation. Removing rotations is practically impossible.Then we understand the term differently. For me, random mashing buttons is not a rotation. It is random mashing buttons. Rotation for me is having a certain sequence of skills you need to follow in the right order. The alternative would be a dynamic system, where you use skills according to the current situation and certain priorities, and have no set rotation to follow.

This is actually a super interesting point to me,Doesn't a dynamic system eventually lead to rotations?And gw2 system is also pretty dynamic (most things are priority based and the rotation is just the optimum of those priorities)
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@Khamul.9837 said:

@LordMorgul.9845 said:5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)

A big part of the raid experience is to figure out boss mechanics by yourself, a guide made by Anet wouldn't make sense. There are already a lot of good guides out there.

Best way to fix raids would be release more of them. Maybe with "easy modes" on strike mission level to affect a larger playerbase. Also real repetable CMs would be great.

I agree with this, because clearly Anet doesn’t think it’s worth the dev time to make more raids. If an easy mode was introduced then that would open a larger player base to the mode, this would give Anet a reason to design more.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

As i see it, there's nothing wrong about the
idea
of rotations, but there's indeed quite a lot of problems with how this got implemented in GW2.

You need to understand what a rotation is. Practically any way that a player commonly uses their skills is a rotation. Mashing their skills is a rotation. Removing rotations is practically impossible.Then we understand the term differently. For me, random mashing buttons is not a rotation. It is random mashing buttons. Rotation for me is having a certain sequence of skills you need to follow in the right order. The alternative would be a dynamic system, where you use skills according to the current situation and certain priorities, and have no set rotation to follow.

Rotation is simply a sequence that players normally follow when using their skills. It can range from super specific, highly efficient rotations as you see on SC to those that players make up for themselves and get in the habit of using. A shortbow ranger hitting 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and then using those skills off cool down is doing a rotation.

The dynamic system you’re speaking of would not happen in GW2 as it would be an entire overhaul of the combat system.

As we already know, this in itself is a highly debatable issue, big enough to be worth a separate thread. And, again, very subjective one. For me, i will say that you are just plain wrong. Sure, tiers would not resolve
some
issues, but they would help with others. You not caring about those other issues doesn't mean they don't exist or would not be helped by tiers.

The mechanics don’t really have all that much scalability. This is especially true if you only add one additional “difficulty mode”.

What will happen is that players will ignore the mechanics if it’s not dangerous enough to the party. You see this during world bosses as well as the ice construct strike mission.Like i said, you caring only about certain issues doesn't make all the others disappear. You are still thinking only in the context of progression, of easy modes being a training ground for the modes above. That's not the only (or the best) use of the tiers idea though.Just look at FF XIV, for example. They happen to use the idea far better.

One of the primary arguments for tiers is it would allow progression. The only other time that you really see another reason used is they want to experience the nearly nonexistent story.

Raids were developed to be the most challenging content in the game. The other 99% of the game doesn’t require any thought or skill to do. If players don’t want to do challenging content then they have other areas of the game to play.

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@yann.1946 said:

As i see it, there's nothing wrong about the
idea
of rotations, but there's indeed quite a lot of problems with how this got implemented in GW2.

You need to understand what a rotation is. Practically any way that a player commonly uses their skills is a rotation. Mashing their skills is a rotation. Removing rotations is practically impossible.Then we understand the term differently. For me, random mashing buttons is not a rotation. It is random mashing buttons. Rotation for me is having a certain sequence of skills you need to follow in the right order. The alternative would be a dynamic system, where you use skills according to the current situation and certain priorities, and have no set rotation to follow.

This is actually a super interesting point to me,Doesn't a dynamic system eventually lead to rotations?And gw2 system is also pretty dynamic (most things are priority based and the rotation is just the optimum of those priorities)

Think dark souls style gameplay where the emphasis is on dodging boss attacks to get an occasional poke in and then retreat. You can technically have a rotation in that game but the windows are generally not large enough for it to matter. Gw2 could technically design a boss encounter that had 20 different attack patterns that you have to react to with very small windows but it would fundamentally change how people play the game for that encounter. Could be interesting but would require a ton of work to make that style of combat feel satisfying in gw2.

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@"LordMorgul.9845" said:1 - no time2 - fix damage system to avoid rotations3 - TIERS4 - Story Mode5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 mastery7 - cm still activable on choice8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like that

so those are my point list to improve raids and make those enjoinable by all kind of players, so now can we argue about those point make your pov about and make Anet fix the situationSkip 1-8 and just9, Make more of them so the people who enjoy the content have something to do

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@Shikaru.7618 said:

As i see it, there's nothing wrong about the
idea
of rotations, but there's indeed quite a lot of problems with how this got implemented in GW2.

You need to understand what a rotation is. Practically any way that a player commonly uses their skills is a rotation. Mashing their skills is a rotation. Removing rotations is practically impossible.Then we understand the term differently. For me, random mashing buttons is not a rotation. It is random mashing buttons. Rotation for me is having a certain sequence of skills you need to follow in the right order. The alternative would be a dynamic system, where you use skills according to the current situation and certain priorities, and have no set rotation to follow.

This is actually a super interesting point to me,Doesn't a dynamic system eventually lead to rotations?And gw2 system is also pretty dynamic (most things are priority based and the rotation is just the optimum of those priorities)

Think dark souls style gameplay where the emphasis is on dodging boss attacks to get an occasional poke in and then retreat. You can technically have a rotation in that game but the windows are generally not large enough for it to matter. Gw2 could technically design a boss encounter that had 20 different attack patterns that you have to react to with very small windows but it would fundamentally change how people play the game for that encounter. Could be interesting but would require a ton of work to make that style of combat feel satisfying in gw2.

You would stack cfbs and block your way through it. you would still have optimal rotations. good players would also just dodge while doing their rotations.What you describe is basically like a dungeon/fractal solo in glass where you need to avoid attacks.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:One of the primary arguments for tiers is it would allow progression. The only other time that you really see another reason used is they want to experience the nearly nonexistent story.That's not quite correct. Sure, this argument is way overused, but that is mainly because it is the only argument raiders are even willing to hear. Any argument that treats easy mode as something more of an independent entity, and not just a crutch for the Real Raids is immediately ignored. Often not getting even a response.

It's just, as i said, this is probably one of the worst uses for the easy mode idea

Raids were developed to be the most challenging content in the game. The other 99% of the game doesn’t require any thought or skill to do. If players don’t want to do challenging content then they have other areas of the game to play.Sure, they were developed to be that. Doesn't mean this is the only choice. Again, look at FF XIV, where both the easier and harder modes exist side by side, with neither being more important than the other. And where existence of normal difficulty raids and trials does not diminish in any way status of savage/extreme tiers.

Like i said, you are looking at this whole case way too narrowly, and thus are unable to see a bigger picture. Your desire to see current raids as the only raid content that matters colors your perception and makes you unable to see any options that do not fit that narrow viewpoint.

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@yann.1946 said:This is actually a super interesting point to me,Doesn't a dynamic system eventually lead to rotations?Depends on the system, i guess. Some will be more prone to it than others.Even in GW2, the differencies in situation and environment lead to different types of behaviour. For example, cc skill use is generally not part of rotations. Same with defensive skills. They are used when there's a need for them, and are not included in some preplanned order of skills. Another example would be PvP, which is far less rotation-prone (because in a battle against an opponent that can actually think, being predictable and inflexible are one of the last things you want).

And gw2 system is also pretty dynamic (most things are priority based and the rotation is just the optimum of those priorities)GW2 has too many cases of where certain specific order of skills nets you significantly better results than those very same skills used in a different order. There are builds where cost of going off-rota even for a moment can be very high. In PvE, where you don't have to worry about the opponents exploiting your predictable patterns (and, especially, in high-end pve where the opponents are extremely predictable themselves to the point where you can know when they will be doing their attacks/using special mechanics before they even started doing it), this generally leads to strict and often lengthy rotations.

But again, it depends on situation and environment. Let's just say that, in general, in PvE GW2 playstyle is not really all that dynamic at all.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The dynamic system you’re speaking of would not happen in GW2 as it would be an entire overhaul of the combat system.True. Never claimed otherwise. The current system may be a mess, and a source of multitude of problems, but we're still stuck with it.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:One of the primary arguments for tiers is it would allow progression. The only other time that you really see another reason used is they want to experience the nearly nonexistent story.That's not quite correct. Sure, this argument is way overused, but that is mainly because it is the only argument raiders are even willing to hear. Any argument that treats easy mode as something more of an independent entity, and not just a crutch for the Real Raids is immediately ignored. Often not getting even a response.

It's just, as i said, this is probably one of the worst uses for the easy mode idea

Raids were developed to be the most challenging content in the game. The other 99% of the game doesn’t require any thought or skill to do. If players don’t want to do challenging content then they have other areas of the game to play.Sure, they were developed to be that. Doesn't mean this is the only choice. Again, look at FF XIV, where both the easier and harder modes exist side by side, with neither being more important than the other. And where existence of normal difficulty raids and trials does not diminish in any way status of savage/extreme tiers.

Like i said, you are looking at this whole case way too narrowly, and thus are unable to see a bigger picture. Your desire to see current raids as the only raid content that matters colors your perception and makes you unable to see any options that do not fit that narrow viewpoint.

When the game was developed, there really wasn’t any challenging content for those that wanted it. Raids was the solution to this and why they were added. Anet’s actions on adding strikes over additional difficulty modes indicates that they still prefer for raids to be the most challenging content in the game.

Those that don’t want to play challenging content simply don’t need to play raids. The entire game doesn’t need to cater around those players as 99% of the game isn’t really a challenge. I have a friend who has a son and a daughter. Each was given a toy. The son also wanted the toy that the daughter had and got upset. This is how I’m seeing this situation. So much of this game is catered to those that don’t want to play challenging content and they got upset when they saw those that wanted challenging content get content specifically for them.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:One of the primary arguments for tiers is it would allow progression. The only other time that you really see another reason used is they want to experience the nearly nonexistent story.That's not quite correct. Sure, this argument is way overused, but that is mainly because it is the only argument raiders are even willing to hear. Any argument that treats easy mode as something more of an independent entity, and not just a crutch for the Real Raids is immediately ignored. Often not getting even a response.

It's just, as i said, this is probably one of the worst uses for the easy mode idea

Raids were developed to be the most challenging content in the game. The other 99% of the game doesn’t require any thought or skill to do. If players don’t want to do challenging content then they have other areas of the game to play.Sure, they were developed to be that. Doesn't mean this is the only choice. Again, look at FF XIV, where both the easier and harder modes exist side by side, with neither being more important than the other. And where existence of normal difficulty raids and trials does not diminish in any way status of savage/extreme tiers.

Like i said, you are looking at this whole case way too narrowly, and thus are unable to see a bigger picture. Your desire to see current raids as the only raid content that matters colors your perception and makes you unable to see any options that do not fit that narrow viewpoint.

When the game was developed, there really wasn’t any challenging content for those that wanted it. Raids was the solution to this and why they were added. Anet’s actions on adding strikes over additional difficulty modes indicates that they still prefer for raids to be the most challenging content in the game.

Those that don’t want to play challenging content simply don’t need to play raids. The entire game doesn’t need to cater around those players as 99% of the game isn’t really a challenge. I have a friend who has a son and a daughter. Each was given a toy. The son also wanted the toy that the daughter had and got upset. This is how I’m seeing this situation. So much of this game is catered to those that don’t want to play challenging content and they got upset when they saw those that wanted challenging content get content specifically for them.

I agree 100% except armor and ring is locked behind it.Make it available on regular pve and half of the problem for people goes away.

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