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Ideas for fixing raid


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@"LordMorgul.9845" said:1 - no timeWon't change anything so I'd

2 - fix damage system to avoid rotationsYou cannot remote rotation unless you remove skill 2 to 0

3 - TIERSWhy not, would be nice to have more difficult encounter

4 - Story ModeWhy not but like any story, no skill needed so no reward

5 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)Dev initial idea/strategies are not played as they imagined it so I'd rather have advice from people that have an idea of what is the easiest to do (the players)

6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 masteryNo don't quadruple stats will make boss be killed in 15sec, just a bad idea.What could be done would be to slowly increase stats/level (e.g: every X-Pac) so old bosses become easier and newer remain semi-difficult but it's against the game idea and would involve that they release more raid.

7 - cm still activable on choiceIt already is you just talk to the mote

8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like thatMeh I think a record of first kill and a reward for it is much more interesting. After it becomes far less interesting to reward it (still remain impressive), rewarding a group because they had time to do X00 pull to manage skipping split phase at gorse would be a bit sad at it would constantly reward the god-tier team with the most time available.additionally, it would give player that are currently crying that raid is too hard another thing to cry about.

About other comments i totally agree that there should be at least another leggy armor/ring as well as the leggy things you can get in pvp/wvw available in pve so player that doesn't want to learn how to play stop to try get to content that is unaccessible based on their skills/gameplay.

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hahah very fun how pp have response on my points... basically most of you don't agree on any point and does make any real propose to make the content ejoinable by more people, and i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1; some people struggle on ROTATION or better to MAKE A PROPER DAMAGE to what? SKYP MECH becouse, ok the easy way make a lot of damage and skyp all,but this is just ONE WAY to do and is the SPEEDRUNNER way, so for sure not the medium player objective that is to at least CLEAR the content, so ill help more your brains explaining why i chose those 8 points:

1- no timewhy? more relaxed run no need of rush on damage or ranting pp just chill as they want doing mech correctly and goin on goal, maybe whit kight stat or whatever they like

2 - fix damage system to avoid rotation

did u see some classes actual rotation? let's talk about u got the "starting" and the "loop" some build have more than 30 skill memory passages do to correctly to maximize the damages and some of u tink this is good... also let's see damage they do : capped all to max 35 k more or less, so why some pp do 65 70 k? those pp are using external programs like macro and other hacks, but is pve content so devs does matter so much than pvp contents, but yes pp hack on pve a lot and i recently have gotted prof of that so being insulted for my damage by a hack pp is really unfair and unworty and if some dev wanna have a talk about i am here

3 - tiers

in fractals tiers helped pp to learn the content that is appurate, pp coming from pvp bursting theyr AR and coming to t4 will be kikked in 0 seconds becouse they don't know the mecs and are permadeath, so lover raid tiers will help pp, also becosue a lot of pp and this is appurate : DOES STUDY BOSSES just come in and said? what i need to do? so instead of wasting time on useless train whit pp that is not ready to do this content becouse of theyr laziness, just face them mechs like on fractals whit a curve of learning.

4 - story modepov is same way of tiers just a easy mode to make pp do theyr AC and enjoy the content

5- anet guide to raid

so here some of you have responded " there are guides online" or more basically "watch the internet" poor minded response, and this is why: all guides are for speedrunner, so it's easy to understend that pp that can't do proper damage if use a speedrunner setted guide will fail the raid, so i don't think this were the focus that devs that created the content haved, they put MECHs to do, to goin at the end of the boss, so i want to say how devs have immagined the fight and how they tinked to have it bein done whit all the mechs they putted. i know the easy way is do a lot damage = less mech and this is obvius but there were other ways to do like heal one tanky one ecc modes to finish raid not so common becouse "out of meta" and if u want to go "out of meta" to end the content, most pp rant about and u get insulted or needto leave the content and is not fair or good in a community, so a dev guide will be more helpfull for newbie than a speedrun one.

6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 mastery

mastery 1% damage it meas the actual mastery as pp said are not really "whorty" or "usefull" so if the actual mastery gives u some increase on stats like 1% of someting (i know is alot maybe real will be 0,2% ) they can make some content easyr that's for the things we already argued in response for someone obiuvsly is the learned mastery not all XD, for the legy the question is the same u spent a lot of time for what? and remenber raid is related to LEGY ARMOR AND TRINKETS so people wanna do for those and easy gold, legy are practical yes but are mostly usueless a little increase on stats can make more pp interested on the content also by now make ascendent gear is easy so making a legy is just for practicity... make them whort more the efforts.

7 - cm still activable on choicecm are the most precius elitist content and speedrunner final objective so this poit is for that pp, i know they don't love nerfed raids or things to make them easy for others (best kind of PP), i don't have maked a clear point here my foult but now ill explain my idea about: cm can be activated in 2 ways 1 by personal player, like more damage some other stuff to do ecc. and this guy will receive something in retourn like double gold or other; but having the guy in single cm how this influence the other raiders? simple the boss do less damage to them as the CM guy/s do theyr stuff. 2 full party cm all party will get the extra reward not like now that cm's is only 1 time effort.

8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like that

i know there are external statistic about this but why don't have it in THE GAME like the pvp tables or wvw tables a RAID tables will be great

9 - (yes a new point) kill the sellersthis is for the pp that just does want to change raids, i know that is pov, but it feel strange that every time someone wanna argue about, a lot off pp just come in force to preserve the actual state, making raid easy in the ways we talked just goes against one kind of raiders: the SELLERS those pp does want change in the actual state becouse they make profit of that, they selling runs for a lot of gold, and making raids easy will ruin their scamming game so don't trust the words of pp like that they do in theyr greedy interest.

and please be propositive not only critics (and yes sorry for my grammar XD)

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@LordMorgul.9845 said:i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1

If we take a look at the easier Strike Missions we can see that 20% of the playerbase (at best) does those too. If ~20% runs Raids, as you say, and 20% runs the easiest Strike Missions, we can easily conclude what any kind of new tier or mode, will be played by less than 1% of the playerbase. Is it a worthy investment for such a low number?

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@"LordMorgul.9845" said:2 - fix damage system to avoid rotation

did u see some classes actual rotation? let's talk about u got the "starting" and the "loop" some build have more than 30 skill memory passages do to correctly to maximize the damages and some of u tink this is good... also let's see damage they do : capped all to max 35 k more or less, so why some pp do 65 70 k? those pp are using external programs like macro and other hacks, but is pve content so devs does matter so much than pvp contents, but yes pp hack on pve a lot and i recently have gotted prof of that so being insulted for my damage by a hack pp is really unfair and unworty and if some dev wanna have a talk about i am here

I don't think you know how damage works. First of all, benchmarks are not capped at 35k. There are quite a few builds thar are above that point.Let me tell you how some people reach 70k DPS. In you have Potions, slaying sigils, not sigils, slaying potions and the exposed debuff on an enemy once it's breakbar is broken. Pair that with really short phases and you get insane dps. Slaying potions and sigils don't work in Raids, however some bosses can be phased really quick and some literally take 36% more damage from power.You can't just look at the numbers in a vacuum and acuse players that actually know their class that they are hacking and cheating. If you want to have a discussion that low you probably shouldn't have started a forum thread.

9 - (yes a new point) kill the sellersthis is for the pp that just does want to change raids, i know that is pov, but it feel strange that every time someone wanna argue about, a lot off pp just come in force to preserve the actual state, making raid easy in the ways we talked just goes against one kind of raiders: the SELLERS those pp does want change in the actual state becouse they make profit of that, they selling runs for a lot of gold, and making raids easy will ruin their scamming game so don't trust the words of pp like that they do in theyr greedy interest.

Its not a scam tho. You aren't forced at gunpoint to use the service and every sell guild that wants to keep selling will do the content you are paying them to do for you.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"LordMorgul.9845" said:i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1

If we take a look at the easier Strike Missions we can see that 20% of the playerbase (at best) does those too. If ~20% runs Raids, as you say, and 20% runs the easiest Strike Missions, we can easily conclude what any kind of new tier or mode, will be played by less than 1% of the playerbase. Is it a worthy investment for such a low number?

becouse this is the same of raid they putted strike to make pp learn raids but some strike like boneskinner and whisper for some are really hard, and they struggle just to dodge for boneskinner or avoid chains... so they do the easyest like kodan ecc and ignore the others, and the actual way to do strike is speedrun like raids and in lfg u can see pp asking for LI kp so they are treathed like raids by most, so those content need to be fixed too if u want pp doing them or change the pov of who make those contents, they tried on the last 2 strikes but pp feel those "too long do to" so the argument its like a uroboro

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@Icetea.3204 said:

@"LordMorgul.9845" said:2 - fix damage system to avoid rotation

did u see some classes actual rotation? let's talk about u got the "starting" and the "loop" some build have more than 30 skill memory passages do to correctly to maximize the damages and some of u tink this is good... also let's see damage they do : capped all to max 35 k more or less, so why some pp do 65 70 k? those pp are using external programs like macro and other hacks, but is pve content so devs does matter so much than pvp contents, but yes pp hack on pve a lot and i recently have gotted prof of that so being insulted for my damage by a hack pp is really unfair and unworty and if some dev wanna have a talk about i am here

I don't think you know how damage works. First of all, benchmarks are not capped at 35k. There are quite a few builds thar are above that point.Let me tell you how some people reach 70k DPS. In you have Potions, slaying sigils, not sigils, slaying potions and the exposed debuff on an enemy once it's breakbar is broken. Pair that with really short phases and you get insane dps. Slaying potions and sigils don't work in Raids, however some bosses can be phased really quick and some literally take 36% more damage from power.You can't just look at the numbers in a vacuum and acuse players that actually know their class that they are hacking and cheating. If you want to have a discussion that low you probably shouldn't have started a forum thread.

9 - (yes a new point) kill the sellersthis is for the pp that just does want to change raids, i know that is pov, but it feel strange that every time someone wanna argue about, a lot off pp just come in force to preserve the actual state, making raid easy in the ways we talked just goes against one kind of raiders: the SELLERS those pp does want change in the actual state becouse they make profit of that, they selling runs for a lot of gold, and making raids easy will ruin their scamming game so don't trust the words of pp like that they do in theyr greedy interest.

Its not a scam tho. You aren't forced at gunpoint to use the service and every sell guild that wants to keep selling will do the content you are paying them to do for you.

:D ", a lot off pp just come in force to preserve the actual state, " 70k is COSTANT ? i can reach those damage on open and then i low to a solid 25k costant as guardian but some other classes whit more complex rotation makin 70 K COSTANT in not static bosses?? they cheat for sure and remeber i can proof that and how it is diffuse in some speedrun cm and raids but it is also very noticiabile if some put little efforts like i have done

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AND BTW just remenber the Snowblind Fractal was nerfed beocuse pp can lit some fire -.- so i want also to know when dark souls striked on the game? as i see reworked fractal more in line whit old snowblind than the nerfed one.... or instability like birds and others putted removed ecc i tink there is no proper line on the content difficulty and this the whole game from dungeon to raids, like u go chill dg until arah, fractals just watch the sunqua and other frac at t1 yolo pp dying a lot, but also skyss no more fuctional like stability that is the name itself does work on the bridge of spiders in deldrimor fractals and does worh in siren reef boat too XD so plese have brain making contents -.-

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@LordMorgul.9845 said:

@LordMorgul.9845 said:i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1

If we take a look at the easier Strike Missions we can see that 20% of the playerbase (at best) does those too. If ~20% runs Raids, as you say, and 20% runs the easiest Strike Missions, we can easily conclude what any kind of new tier or mode, will be played by less than 1% of the playerbase. Is it a worthy investment for such a low number?

becouse this is the same of raid they putted strike to make pp learn raids but some strike like boneskinner and whisper for some are really hard, and they struggle just to dodge for boneskinner or avoid chains... so they do the easyest like kodan ecc and ignore the others, and the actual way to do strike is speedrun like raids and in lfg u can see pp asking for LI kp so they are treathed like raids by most, so those content need to be fixed too if u want pp doing them or change the pov of who make those contents, they tried on the last 2 strikes but pp feel those "too long do to" so the argument its like a uroboro

Read what I posted. I'm talking about the Icebrood Construct, not Boneskinner or Whisper. The Shiverpeak Pass strike mission doesn't really have better completion rates than the others. It's a simple subtraction, players finishing Shiverpeak Pass minus players finishing Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag, that's the amount of players interested in "Easy" instanced content. And that numbers isn't exactly sky high, I'm willing to bet it's far lower than the number of players beating Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@LordMorgul.9845 said:i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1

If we take a look at the easier Strike Missions we can see that 20% of the playerbase (at best) does those too. If ~20% runs Raids, as you say, and 20% runs the easiest Strike Missions, we can easily conclude what any kind of new tier or mode, will be played by less than 1% of the playerbase. Is it a worthy investment for such a low number?

becouse this is the same of raid they putted strike to make pp learn raids but some strike like boneskinner and whisper for some are really hard, and they struggle just to dodge for boneskinner or avoid chains... so they do the easyest like kodan ecc and ignore the others, and the actual way to do strike is speedrun like raids and in lfg u can see pp asking for LI kp so they are treathed like raids by most, so those content need to be fixed too if u want pp doing them or change the pov of who make those contents, they tried on the last 2 strikes but pp feel those "too long do to" so the argument its like a uroboro

Read what I posted. I'm talking about the Icebrood Construct, not Boneskinner or Whisper. The Shiverpeak Pass strike mission doesn't really have better completion rates than the others. It's a simple subtraction, players finishing Shiverpeak Pass minus players finishing Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag, that's the amount of players interested in "Easy" instanced content. And that numbers isn't exactly sky high, I'm willing to bet it's far lower than the number of players beating Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag.

i tink to see real data about content played will be interesting, but i think this is because shiver does have a good loot so in lesser worty to do than the kodan one pp do strike mostly for farming map currency and convert them the shiver one is not related to bjora so no efforts to do that for currency, but if u take the kodan is easy and pay so pp do that, the content can be ejoinable but it need to have some effort for doing it, its like story beutyfull and i love to play but they don't pay so pp don't do those more than once

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@LordMorgul.9845 said:

@LordMorgul.9845 said:2 - fix damage system to avoid rotation

did u see some classes actual rotation? let's talk about u got the "starting" and the "loop" some build have more than 30 skill memory passages do to correctly to maximize the damages and some of u tink this is good... also let's see damage they do : capped all to max 35 k more or less, so why some pp do 65 70 k? those pp are using external programs like macro and other hacks, but is pve content so devs does matter so much than pvp contents, but yes pp hack on pve a lot and i recently have gotted prof of that so being insulted for my damage by a hack pp is really unfair and unworty and if some dev wanna have a talk about i am here

I don't think you know how damage works. First of all, benchmarks are not capped at 35k. There are quite a few builds thar are above that point.Let me tell you how some people reach 70k DPS. In you have Potions, slaying sigils, not sigils, slaying potions and the exposed debuff on an enemy once it's breakbar is broken. Pair that with really short phases and you get insane dps. Slaying potions and sigils don't work in Raids, however some bosses can be phased really quick and some literally take 36% more damage from power.You can't just look at the numbers in a vacuum and acuse players that actually know their class that they are hacking and cheating. If you want to have a discussion that low you probably shouldn't have started a forum thread.

9 - (yes a new point) kill the sellersthis is for the pp that just does want to change raids, i know that is pov, but it feel strange that every time someone wanna argue about, a lot off pp just come in force to preserve the actual state, making raid easy in the ways we talked just goes against one kind of raiders: the SELLERS those pp does want change in the actual state becouse they make profit of that, they selling runs for a lot of gold, and making raids easy will ruin their scamming game so don't trust the words of pp like that they do in theyr greedy interest.

Its not a scam tho. You aren't forced at gunpoint to use the service and every sell guild that wants to keep selling will do the content you are paying them to do for you.

:D ", a lot off pp just come in force to preserve the actual state, " 70k is COSTANT ? i can reach those damage on open and then i low to a solid 25k costant as guardian but some other classes whit more complex rotation makin 70 K COSTANT in not static bosses?? they cheat for sure and remeber i can proof that and how it is diffuse in some speedrun cm and raids but it is also very noticiabile if some put little efforts like i have done

I would like to see your proof that they are cheating then. If you don't feel comfortable doing this on the forums I'll provide you my discord tag.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"LordMorgul.9845" said:i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1

If we take a look at the easier Strike Missions we can see that 20% of the playerbase (at best) does those too.No, we can't. Efficiency statistics at this point are way too unreliable, considering that way too many efficiency accounts can no longer be considered to be "part of the playerbase", as they aren't active anymore.

We don't have any reliable statistics about more recent content at all.

But if we were to look at efficiency, we would see completion ratios (out of all efficiency accounts, including inactive ones, remember):Coming Home (first step of of Bound by Blood): 118,147 of 279,661 (42.247%)A Race to Arms (last step of Bound by Blood): 97,737 of 279,661 (34.948%)Stay Frosty (completion of Shiverpeak Strike): 71,209 of 279,661 (25.463%)

So, we can say that, among efficiency players, 71,209 people completed the strike, out of 97,737 that had completed that LS chapter. Which is 72.858% completion ratio. Or, if we compare it to people that even tried to start the story, it would be 71,209 out of 118,147. Which is 60.271%

In both cases, way above 20%.

(by the way, until Steel and Fire, you basically had to do at least first part of the story to even attempt the strike, because the only entrance then was in Grothmar).

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"LordMorgul.9845" said:i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1

If we take a look at the easier Strike Missions we can see that 20% of the playerbase (at best) does those too.No, we can't. Efficiency statistics at this point are way too unreliable, considering that way too many efficiency accounts can no longer be considered to be "part of the playerbase", as they aren't active anymore.

We don't have
any
reliable statistics about more recent content at all.

But if we
were
to look at efficiency, we would see completion ratios (out of
all
efficiency accounts, including inactive ones, remember):Coming Home (first step of of Bound by Blood): 118,147 of 279,661 (42.247%)A Race to Arms (last step of Bound by Blood): 97,737 of 279,661 (34.948%)Stay Frosty (completion of Shiverpeak Strike): 71,209 of 279,661 (25.463%)

So, we can say that, among efficiency players, 71,209 people completed the strike, out of 97,737 that had completed that LS chapter. Which is 72.858% completion ratio. Or, if we compare it to people that even tried to start the story, it would be 71,209 out of 118,147. Which is 60.271%

In both cases, way above 20%.

(by the way, until Steel and Fire, you basically had to do at least first part of the story to even attempt the strike, because the only entrance then was in Grothmar).

You don't need to complete, or even start, the story episode to do that strike.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"LordMorgul.9845" said:i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1

If we take a look at the easier Strike Missions we can see that 20% of the playerbase (at best) does those too.No, we can't. Efficiency statistics at this point are way too unreliable, considering that way too many efficiency accounts can no longer be considered to be "part of the playerbase", as they aren't active anymore.

We don't have
any
reliable statistics about more recent content at all.

But if we
were
to look at efficiency, we would see completion ratios (out of
all
efficiency accounts, including inactive ones, remember):Coming Home (first step of of Bound by Blood): 118,147 of 279,661 (42.247%)A Race to Arms (last step of Bound by Blood): 97,737 of 279,661 (34.948%)Stay Frosty (completion of Shiverpeak Strike): 71,209 of 279,661 (25.463%)

So, we can say that, among efficiency players, 71,209 people completed the strike, out of 97,737 that had completed that LS chapter. Which is 72.858% completion ratio. Or, if we compare it to people that even tried to start the story, it would be 71,209 out of 118,147. Which is 60.271%

In both cases, way above 20%.

(by the way, until Steel and Fire, you basically had to do at least first part of the story to even attempt the strike, because the only entrance then was in Grothmar).

It is weird that my gw2efficiency data is different, so I'm gonna use mine:Coming Home: 99,408 of 235,412 (42.227%)A Race to Arms: 82,254 of 235,412 (34.940%)Stay Frosty: 59,997 of 235,412 (25.486%)Percentages are very similar to yours although player counts are different.59997 out of 82254 players finished the Strike, or, 73%

However, you didn't add anything to compare it to. For example, you should've followed your train of thought:

Silence: 88,999 of 235,412 (37.806%) first step of Whisper in the DarkThe Invitation: 81,325 of 235,412 (34.546%) final step of Whisper in the DarkLegendary Voice of the Fallen and Claw of the Fallen: 51,002 of 235,412 (21.665%)51002 out of 81325 players finished the Strike Mission of Voice and Claw, or 62.7%There is no reason to believe that players that killed Voice and Claw didn't kill the Icebrood Construct, which leads us to the percentage of the playerbase that is interested to instanced content of lower difficulty than Voice and Claw (73-62.7 = 10.3%, so adding a lower difficulty tier on Voice and Claw to accommodate those players would net a measly ~10%, is it worth adding a new tier for that number?

Chasing Ghosts: 977,211 of 235,412 (32.798%) first step of Shadow in the IceVoice in the Deep: 70,930 of 235,412 (30.130%) completion of Shadow in the IceLegendary Whisper of Jormag: 39,311 of 235,412 (16.699%)There is no reason to believe that players that killed Whisper didn't also kill the previous Strike Mission bosses.39311 of 70930 killed Whisper of Jormag, or 55.4%Let's follow the same logic as above, an "easy mode" for Whisper of Jormag is for about 73-55.4=17.6%

Obviously it's much more complicated than that, but you can easily see what's the percentage of players interested in easier instanced content. It's not as high as some people around these forums would have us believe. The question is if their numbers are enough to justify an extra new tier of difficulty created for them.

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For a quick summary:As I said in my post here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1388148/#Comment_1388148 and the data in my post above confirm:Easy Strike: 73%Medium Strike: 62%Hard Strike: 55%

This can be easily adapted for Raids too, as Whisper is very similar to a Raid boss, even harder than the easier ones. This gives us a very nice baseline of the potential audience for easier instanced content (and harder of course). In the above example, one extra tier would only provide access to 7% - 18% more, or if 2 new tiers were added, 7%/11%. Compared to the 55% that does the harder version, those easier tiers would need to justify their existence. The myth of "adding new tiers would greatly expand the audience" is just that, a myth.

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You won’t get higher number of players playing raids unless you literally force them to play easy mode because the main storyline is locked behind it.

The problem is that this philosophy of game structure is very much what guild wars 2 never wanted to have. Simple as that.

If you want more players raiding through easy mode, following guild wars 2 system, then the raids need to be forced down in some way and have good enough rewards that are competitive in comparison to fractals yet not better than what normal raid rewards offer.

At this point, it would be better if this “easy mode” was provided through the guild system, where this easy mode would provide rewards that are needed in order to further upgrade the guild hall as well as offer extra rewards for running the challenge motes of normal raids as a guild.

When it comes to the “easy mode”, I think it would be a waste of time for devs to find further ways of making the boss easier by reducing the mechanics of the fight.The best would be to use existing gear enrichments like fractal infusion (using new guild content rewards that allow you to transform these infusion) to get raid specific bonus attributes that makes the fight way easier and that are only used in these easy mode raid instances.

Obviously it would force players to get ascended gear but since ascended is already required for fractals and there are multiple sources of ascended gear available, it really wouldn’t be a problem.

tl;drMake easy mode raid mandatory for new guild content and rewards by first requiring players to get ascended gear.

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@"LordMorgul.9845" said:1 - no timeSo player can stack heal to the infinite ? it's supposed to be the most challenging content of the game, trivalizing it is not a good idea2 - fix damage system to avoid rotationsyou can't, there will always be rotation, simply because it's the way to do the most damage, there is no way to remove them3 - TIERSWhy not a story mode and an hard mode4 - Story Mode-35 - Make Anet Guides by Dev to how to do a raid, (wiki is not helpfull and is ilarius how the game got tons of specs but is closed to 3-4 setups and all guides are for elitis and speedrun not common playerbase)You can definitly find offmeta build easely nowday, even snowcrow have ton of good off meta build.6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 masteryNo powercreep, it's just trivvalize the game even more7 - cm still activable on choice??? not sure to understand8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like thatCool idea.

so those are my point list to improve raids and make those enjoinable by all kind of players, so now can we argue about those point make your pov about and make Anet fix the situationThere is no way to make a endgame content for everyone, even openworld or story are not enjoyable for everyone as people that like challenge, true cooperation and so much more don't like it to, same for story or any gamemode honestly.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

As i see it, there's nothing wrong about the
idea
of rotations, but there's indeed quite a lot of problems with how this got implemented in GW2.

You need to understand what a rotation is. Practically any way that a player commonly uses their skills is a rotation. Mashing their skills is a rotation. Removing rotations is practically impossible.Then we understand the term differently. For me, random mashing buttons is not a rotation. It is random mashing buttons. Rotation for me is having a certain sequence of skills you need to follow in the right order. The alternative would be a dynamic system, where you use skills according to the current situation and certain priorities, and have no set rotation to follow.

As we already know, this in itself is a highly debatable issue, big enough to be worth a separate thread. And, again, very subjective one. For me, i will say that you are just plain wrong. Sure, tiers would not resolve
some
issues, but they would help with others. You not caring about those other issues doesn't mean they don't exist or would not be helped by tiers.

The mechanics don’t really have all that much scalability. This is especially true if you only add one additional “difficulty mode”.

What will happen is that players will ignore the mechanics if it’s not dangerous enough to the party. You see this during world bosses as well as the ice construct strike mission.Like i said, you caring only about certain issues doesn't make all the others disappear. You are still thinking only in the context of progression, of easy modes being a training ground for the modes above. That's not the only (or the best) use of the tiers idea though.Just look at FF XIV, for example. They happen to use the idea far better.

Funny thing, we have one spec that is close to that, which is mirage which don't have a rotation but a priority list (still a rotation in some way, maybe more hard to use), and it's even more obvious on largos, where your priorities complety change depending on attack pattern.

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  • 4 weeks later...

@"LordMorgul.9845" said:hahah very fun how pp have response on my points... basically most of you don't agree on any point and does make any real propose to make the content ejoinable by more people, and i want to remeber you all that les than 20% of player base do this content and there is people that don't do this content becouse of toxic elitism and play by d1; some people struggle on ROTATION or better to MAKE A PROPER DAMAGE to what? SKYP MECH becouse, ok the easy way make a lot of damage and skyp all,but this is just ONE WAY to do and is the SPEEDRUNNER way, so for sure not the medium player objective that is to at least CLEAR the content, so ill help more your brains explaining why i chose those 8 points:

1- no timewhy? more relaxed run no need of rush on damage or ranting pp just chill as they want doing mech correctly and goin on goal, maybe whit kight stat or whatever they like

My pov after point 4

2 - fix damage system to avoid rotation

did u see some classes actual rotation? let's talk about u got the "starting" and the "loop" some build have more than 30 skill memory passages do to correctly to maximize the damages and some of u tink this is good... also let's see damage they do : capped all to max 35 k more or less, so why some pp do 65 70 k? those pp are using external programs like macro and other hacks, but is pve content so devs does matter so much than pvp contents, but yes pp hack on pve a lot and i recently have gotted prof of that so being insulted for my damage by a hack pp is really unfair and unworty and if some dev wanna have a talk about i am here

did i get this right, you dont want to have a "rotaion" in the game, because ppl can use 3rd party programm to get more dmg? if that is the case, arena net just needs to kick this hackers from raids (maybe not permanent but for a couple weeks)... but tbh on some bosses you can get more dmg than on the golem (since the boss can get a d-buff which allows more dmg). The question is now would a hardcore elitist maybe get a ban from that system because he trained that one class 100+h on the golem and he gets banned, just because his/her rotation is just too perfect, is that fair? (i dont say, that there are some hackers in the community, but what is the risk? and what is the benefit of it?)

with the roation, i play myself a couple raid classes... and as long you are not dps racing with a support chrono (or the alac rev) in a 100li+ group you will not get flamed for your dmg, the dmg on thouse websides just tell you what they are pressing and how to get their dmg. if you read all they write on the webside (like what triggers what and how does your burst look, and after that you go to the golem and look try that out for 20 min) you will get some decent dmg (not top dps, but good dmg)

3 - tiers

in fractals tiers helped pp to learn the content that is appurate, pp coming from pvp bursting theyr AR and coming to t4 will be kikked in 0 seconds becouse they don't know the mecs and are permadeath, so lover raid tiers will help pp, also becosue a lot of pp and this is appurate : DOES STUDY BOSSES just come in and said? what i need to do? so instead of wasting time on useless train whit pp that is not ready to do this content becouse of theyr laziness, just face them mechs like on fractals whit a curve of learning.

I will give you my pov after point 5

4 - story modepov is same way of tiers just a easy mode to make pp do theyr AC and enjoy the content

If area net should introduce a "easy" mode for raids, that would not be played by at least 90% of the raid playerbase and by pve players max once or maybe twice, since you cant give the same rewart for that and for the "normal" raid

They could implement a "beginner" mode with no time... but there is no "li" and no "kp" at the end of it... the only thing you get is some yellow items and like 50 silver... since if you would give li and kp to that, they would make the 250li+ groups a nightmare... bc they are used to have like 5 healers, and in the other groups they have max 2.

5- anet guide to raid

so here some of you have responded " there are guides online" or more basically "watch the internet" poor minded response, and this is why: all guides are for speedrunner, so it's easy to understend that pp that can't do proper damage if use a speedrunner setted guide will fail the raid, so i don't think this were the focus that devs that created the content haved, they put MECHs to do, to goin at the end of the boss, so i want to say how devs have immagined the fight and how they tinked to have it bein done whit all the mechs they putted. i know the easy way is do a lot damage = less mech and this is obvius but there were other ways to do like heal one tanky one ecc modes to finish raid not so common becouse "out of meta" and if u want to go "out of meta" to end the content, most pp rant about and u get insulted or needto leave the content and is not fair or good in a community, so a dev guide will be more helpfull for newbie than a speedrun one.

I will put here my response to this and to point 3, since i think they are pretty close to each other. In my opinion arena net, should put some Raid mechanics into Strikemissions, exp. instead of the chains at "whisper of jormag" you get a tp field under your char (like at Cairn and Vale guard). That tp will teleport you either to a random location in the arena or something else (i cant think of something else). A other example, would be a keep 2 npc apart to kill them both at the Boneskinner, instead of the fire mechanic (at the outside)... there you need to keep a "young boneskinner" apart from a "boneskinner shaman" (the shaman has invounerability and casts that to other enemys in a 300 radius) when the baby dies once the shaman loses 50% of his health, and the baby gets healed to full again (like at samarog) this way you can easy introduce some mechs to the community and the guides you finde online are easier to follow (since you know some mechs, bosses can have)

6 - Make legy weapon and armor more powerfull or make stat encreased on mastery base like 1% = 1 mastery

mastery 1% damage it meas the actual mastery as pp said are not really "whorty" or "usefull" so if the actual mastery gives u some increase on stats like 1% of someting (i know is alot maybe real will be 0,2% ) they can make some content easyr that's for the things we already argued in response for someone obiuvsly is the learned mastery not all XD, for the legy the question is the same u spent a lot of time for what? and remenber raid is related to LEGY ARMOR AND TRINKETS so people wanna do for those and easy gold, legy are practical yes but are mostly usueless a little increase on stats can make more pp interested on the content also by now make ascendent gear is easy so making a legy is just for practicity... make them whort more the efforts.

I think that this is a bad idea, because this is gonna make high li groups even more toxic... the lfg would (most likely) be "W3, BS 400 li & 349 mastery and Ping legy armor" (the reason we dont need to ping ascendet armor is, that its "easy" to get if you have 50+ li, and everything lower than that is basically training). Arena net talked once about the Legy armory, which is a comfort increas with the armor, and it should stay that way.And with the mastery thing, the only thing they need to to for it is, that you get some comfort stuff in raids, but shouldnt make the easier, for example, you bounce 0.01% higher on a bomb jumppad per point, or you move 0.01% faster, but not everything is applied the player can either choose some.

7 - cm still activable on choicecm are the most precius elitist content and speedrunner final objective so this poit is for that pp, i know they don't love nerfed raids or things to make them easy for others (best kind of PP), i don't have maked a clear point here my foult but now ill explain my idea about: cm can be activated in 2 ways 1 by personal player, like more damage some other stuff to do ecc. and this guy will receive something in retourn like double gold or other; but having the guy in single cm how this influence the other raiders? simple the boss do less damage to them as the CM guy/s do theyr stuff. 2 full party cm all party will get the extra reward not like now that cm's is only 1 time effort.

Since CM adds some extra mechanics, i dont think that would be a good idea (or at least really hard to do). For example, on the "Deimos" fight (last Boss on W4) you have a NPC which needs to survive the fight, in normal mode you can heal him up, on CM that cant be done. There are even some other fight, that would make this hard to do. I cant really give you a good "answer" for that point, i think it should stay as it is

8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like that

Really good idea, i think thats (in my opinion) a really good point.

9 - (yes a new point) kill the sellers

Why is raid selling a issue? Tbh, the only way to "kill" raid sellers, is to not buy their products... and if someone wants to spend 300g+ just to get 3-4 li and dead raidbosses, that is on them, you dont have to bother with that.

LI = Legendary Insights (You get 1 of this after every Raidboss kill, but only once a week)kp= Kill Proof (every boss gives 1-5 of them, and you can proof with them that you killed the boss a couple times)W4= Is the Raid Wing 4 (bastion of the penitent)W3= Is the Raid Wing 3 (Stronghold of the Faithful)CM= Challenge Mode (this is a harder version of a specific Boss)BS= Banner Slave (this a version of playing the warrior class in raids)

Sorry for any mistakes... i hope you know what i mean ^^ (not english native)And i hope this has the right format, and i didnt screw up xD

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@"LordMorgul.9845" nothing from your post magically "fixes" raids, for the most part I'd say what @"Ayrilana.1396" already said.

Except I'm also curious how would you "fix damage to avoid rotations". Literally walk me through your process of reworking whatever you need reworked that eliminates the possibility of creating optimal dmg rotations. I'd say it's impossible, but maybe -hopefully- you'll surprise me, so show me what you've got.

8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like that

Also you seem to want to reduce the elitism and then as a grand final you... encourage elitism by additionally rewarding optimal playthroughs. hmm...

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@Sobx.1758 said:@"LordMorgul.9845" nothing from your post magically "fixes" raids, for the most part I'd say what @"Ayrilana.1396" already said.

Except I'm also curious how would you "fix damage to avoid rotations". Literally walk me through your process of reworking whatever you need reworked that eliminates the possibility of creating optimal dmg rotations. I'd say it's impossible, but maybe -hopefully- you'll surprise me, so show me what you've got.

8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like that

Also you seem to want to reduce the elitism and then as a grand final you... encourage elitism by additionally rewarding optimal playthroughs. hmm...

All get 1 skill and 1 skill only poof rotations gone.EditThat is the only way it could work not that anyone want that tho.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:@"LordMorgul.9845" nothing from your post magically "fixes" raids, for the most part I'd say what @"Ayrilana.1396" already said.

Except I'm also curious how would you "fix damage to avoid rotations". Literally walk me through your process of reworking
whatever you need reworked
that eliminates the possibility of creating optimal dmg rotations. I'd say it's impossible, but maybe -hopefully- you'll surprise me, so show me what you've got.

8 - for speed clear run and elitis made some record table so they proper enjoy theyrself whit weakly reward for the first 5 team some like "clear time" "damage dealt" or someting like that

Also you seem to want to reduce the elitism and then as a grand final you... encourage elitism by additionally rewarding optimal playthroughs. hmm...

All get 1 skill and 1 skill only poof rotations gone.EditThat is the only way it could work not that anyone want that tho.

Yup, that's about the only thing I could think of, you'd need to normalize AA to be the highest dmging "skill" in all of the classes, preferably without chain because breaking chain = lowering dps of the "rotation" already. I think OP has his fixes all figured out then ;p

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