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Fix deadeye


purple.6194

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@"saerni.2584" said:What would you replace it with?

Something that fits the "Sniper" identity better than "Lmao I'm invisible"The Espec is called "Deadeye" not "Ghost" or "Spectre" or "Harry Potter's Cloak of Invisibility"

I've always felt like Shadow Meld is a very shoddy Elite that seems like it was thrown in so that DEs don't have a lack of Stealth in order to keep using DJ, but as we have it now, DE has indeed no lack of Stealth at all, and Shadow Meld is just more Stealth application, with the added bonus of countering their counter.

I think what would be better fitting is an empower type skill which helps them prepare for their powerful shot.I'm thinking of something like :
  • 1/4s cast time
  • Instantly grants Stealth
  • Gives maximum possible Malice
  • Cannot swap weapons
  • Forced into Kneel and cannot unkneel
  • Death Judgement range boosted by 500 range
  • Next Death Judgement pierces up to 5
  • Can be cancelled by pressing the Elite again
  • Only consumes upon casting Death Judgement, then goes into cooldown
  • 60s cooldown competitive, 30s cooldown PvE

The Deadeye can still Dodge roll in order to extend their Stealth and move, but they will be forced into a kneel for the duration of the buff.Should be probably strong enough to take out a squishy with 15k HP, but hey, since they are going all in, it might as well do the job, plus there's a cooldown.

A utility that assumes you are running rifle isn't really a viable design.

You could make it a bonus to stealth attack generally—applying stealth and then launching an enhanced stealth attack.

But that would still just make it another version of oneshot we had before the nerfs to power creep. So either it would be OP damage or not worth taking (instead people would probably just take daggerstorm for the extra evades and reflects/projectile cleave.

The way I see Shadowmeld now is as a defensive tool to quickly reposition for another attack. Removing revealed lets you do this at any time (with limited charges) and lets you chain stealth attacks (less helpful because malice isn't built up if you just Stealth Attack, SM, Stealth Attack.

I'd also disagree that the advice is useless to "just use revealed." Deadeye using SM after a revealed + burst (should be used at the same time) is a cooldown being used defensively that could be used offensively. But this is generally how you should fight DE already. When they attack you pressure them back and force them to use SM. Stealth Attacks self reveal after all. Your skills that reveal are bonuses (not the sole way of fighting a person in stealth).

Now if you can't pressure the DE that's a separate issue. You need to be able to force them to use stealth defensively, otherwise they will just pick away at you until you die. Counter pressure, not reveal skills, are what you need.

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A Perma Stealth Deadeye trades their utility skills for other, more combat oriented ones.Shadow Step: You can see the circle where the thief can step back to.Shadow's Refuge: If you see a circle with a house icon above it, the thief is hiding in there to get stealth. Nice detail to know: he can NOT leave the circle untill all pulses are complete or he looses all stealth. AoE that area if you can to the max.Sentries and watchtowers prohibit long periods of stealth. Same with trapsRanger's Barrage will complete when started, even if thief stealthes. Arrow direction gives you hint where they are.

Likely many more other counters that I am not aware of.Nothing wrong with thief, if you know how to counter.

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@mtnjkbm.7452 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

Ok, I'm willing to learn:How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

Play soulbeast and just rapidfire them.Play dragonhunter and trueshot them.Play fresh air ele and combowombo them.Play chrono and do what chrono does to them.Play dagger pistol thief, basi them and kill them out of stealth to assert dominance. Play sword dagger thief and show them whos the boss of ports.Play burn weaver, outsustain easily and pressure them until they run out of cooldowns or ini, then kill or watch them runaway.Play burn tempest, use two signets and watch them panic press all their buttons, keep burning until they eventually die.Play power dps tempest, reflect all their stuff and watch them not having a good time with their class, while your air minions and the fire elite one, keep attacking.Oh or play shortbow power rev and just sevenshot them. Or herold.If u cant oneshot, they probably play condi de with trailblazer runes, just like condi p/d thiefs with their meme scorpionwire.If thats the case, just ignore them, since they probably have some issues in rl and just want to be understood or someone hurt them at some point.

Lol. Condi DE. Actually effective condi DE doesn't run trailblazers. And what are "trailblazer runes?"

Lol. Edited. i meant stats. Yeh i really dont know what condi de's or pd thiefs are running exactly, in the end.. just tanky and condi, thats it. Who cares?

Except it's not trailblazers.

Like you can. But malice is built off crits at 100% bonus. So you aren't going to run with no crit in your stats.

And who cares? You did by posting about it?

But I don't think that many are running P/D or condi DE. I've seen maybe 1 condi DE in 50. And he was running rifle. And maybe 2 P/D core thieves. Rest were standard D/P or Rifle power. So like, it's not common and not sure why you are singling it out like you've even fought one before.

I did post a joke! Im sorry if i offended u cause ure maybe playing this build! OP asking for help against de players, and me posting some classes which dont really have problems against thief while making fun of this build, thats all.

I have no problem against condi thiefs and dont really care what they are running. Fought some, and besides them spamming imob, i never felt bothered.

I'm not offended, just curious. I don't see so many condi DE so I always wonder what people are talking about when they bring it up.

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Well, hit two pages, Ladies and gents, original post just referring to deadeye and their ability to hide in keeps forever and port groups in from outside outer wall directly to lord room, ( yes this is a thing). No it is not a matter of strategy or skill. Yes you can do it with core and daredevil, it is easier with deadeye, people who do it aren't god gamer's I know 10 people across the NA servers ( there are more obviously merely restricting it to advance my point here) that do it for up six to hours during their respective timezones. 8 of those 10 have 600+ ping with unstable connection, 4 out of this group bug under the map to build untargettable cats from underneath. No they wont get banned its been years . While this is happening bl keeps becomes largely indefencible, redbl in particular is that much more vulnerable with the keeps being far easier to hide in and response time on that shithouse map being that much longer. As a result the keeps go to paper while the thieve's and squads that use them ktrain it up and just wait for them to logoff before bothering to upgrade on the bl's. This has its impact on everything else but again just one step at a time,

I said fix deadeye's and not fix thief for one simple reason, deadeye is the easiest to do this on, therefore that is what the keep hider's use. keep it as basic as possible, this does not need to get into the weeds of confusing concepts.If there was a skill element at all, fair enough its just an odd bad gameplay minigame within the game for players to play. There is not, this is obviously another unintentional result of throwing shit at a wall without any followup.

I am not talking about roaming, issues with stealth generally, or strategies to 1shot thieves with rangers' cus thats solid gameplay! That is a whole other issue that obviously needs solving but again one baby step at a time. Up until this month there has been no reason to even bring it up, i don't think the forums are of much value at all, but again simply here since there was some actual wvw changes that even indicate someone is looking at wvw at all

ALSO can't resist, INB4 git gud round 2 :)

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@"purple.6194" said:Well, hit two pages, Ladies and gents, original post just referring to deadeye and their ability to hide in keeps forever and port groups in from outside outer wall directly to lord room, ( yes this is a thing). No it is not a matter of strategy or skill. Yes you can do it with core and daredevil, it is easier with deadeye, people who do it aren't god gamer's I know 10 people across the NA servers ( there are more obviously merely restricting it to advance my point here) that do it for up six to hours during their respective timezones. 8 of those 10 have 600+ ping with unstable connection, 4 out of this group bug under the map to build untargettable cats from underneath. No they wont get banned its been years . While this is happening bl keeps becomes largely indefencible, redbl in particular is that much more vulnerable with the keeps being far easier to hide in and response time on that shithouse map being that much longer. As a result the keeps go to paper while the thieve's and squads that use them ktrain it up and just wait for them to logoff before bothering to upgrade on the bl's. This has its impact on everything else but again just one step at a time,

I said fix deadeye's and not fix thief for one simple reason, deadeye is the easiest to do this on, therefore that is what the keep hider's use. keep it as basic as possible, this does not need to get into the weeds of confusing concepts.If there was a skill element at all, fair enough its just an odd bad gameplay minigame within the game for players to play. There is not, this is obviously another unintentional result of throwing kitten at a wall without any followup.

I am not talking about roaming, issues with stealth generally, or strategies to 1shot thieves with rangers' cus thats solid gameplay! That is a whole other issue that obviously needs solving but again one baby step at a time. Up until this month there has been no reason to even bring it up, i don't think the forums are of much value at all, but again simply here since there was some actual wvw changes that even indicate someone is looking at wvw at all

ALSO can't resist, INB4 git gud round 2 :)

Lol. Clearly just making up examples. "I know a guy." "They are all hacking/exploiting under the map." "Six hours a day kek."

That sounds really boring. Kittens and puppies level of "why would anyone even try that for 20 minutes let alone 5+ hours?"

Oh right. Because it doesn't happen.

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@"purple.6194" said:Well, hit two pages, Ladies and gents, original post just referring to deadeye and their ability to hide in keeps forever and port groups in from outside outer wall directly to lord room, ( yes this is a thing). No it is not a matter of strategy or skill. Yes you can do it with core and daredevil, it is easier with deadeye, people who do it aren't god gamer's I know 10 people across the NA servers ( there are more obviously merely restricting it to advance my point here) that do it for up six to hours during their respective timezones. 8 of those 10 have 600+ ping with unstable connection, 4 out of this group bug under the map to build untargettable cats from underneath. No they wont get banned its been years . While this is happening bl keeps becomes largely indefencible, redbl in particular is that much more vulnerable with the keeps being far easier to hide in and response time on that shithouse map being that much longer. As a result the keeps go to paper while the thieve's and squads that use them ktrain it up and just wait for them to logoff before bothering to upgrade on the bl's. This has its impact on everything else but again just one step at a time,

I said fix deadeye's and not fix thief for one simple reason, deadeye is the easiest to do this on, therefore that is what the keep hider's use. keep it as basic as possible, this does not need to get into the weeds of confusing concepts.If there was a skill element at all, fair enough its just an odd bad gameplay minigame within the game for players to play. There is not, this is obviously another unintentional result of throwing kitten at a wall without any followup.

I am not talking about roaming, issues with stealth generally, or strategies to 1shot thieves with rangers' cus thats solid gameplay! That is a whole other issue that obviously needs solving but again one baby step at a time. Up until this month there has been no reason to even bring it up, i don't think the forums are of much value at all, but again simply here since there was some actual wvw changes that even indicate someone is looking at wvw at all

ALSO can't resist, INB4 git gud round 2 :)

And there it is.Your issue is hackers. Hackers who for QoL reasons prefer deadeyes. So because you acknowledge that Anet won't do a thing about it, you just want a flat out nerf or removal of deadeye gameplay. You don't care one bit about other deadeye players who don't hack.Anet isn't gonna do yet another overhaul on Deadeye when you can clearly see the resources being spent on Cantha for new elites specialisations.

Why haven't you yet provided a video proof of a deadeye removing "you are marked" debuff from keep? Is it because the only way is through hacking? It is possible to prevent it from being applied in the first place but you said they removed it.

Also you must've been on a lengthy break from wvw if you missed out on other "actual changes" too;like the duration nerfs to various stealth giving traits and skills which forced DA riflers into SAthe initiative increase to rifle #4 death's retreatDon't think for a second it's enjoyable to get further and further pigeon holed with our options getting diminished

If you want to speed up the process, I'll play along your schadenfreude:

  • F1 Mark cast time 1s
  • Maleficent 7 ICD 5secs
  • missing an malicious attack drains 2 malice PTS (wouldn't be possible to abuse M7 due to the 5s ICD been proposal)
  • Shadow Meld cast time 2s to give y'all more time to interrupt punish and if shadow meld removes a reveal, endurance regen penalty for 3seconds (daredevil unhindered combatant nerf style)
  • SA trait when revealed 33% DMG reduction nerf to 20%
  • Binding shadow arming vapor trail shows even when the DE source is in stealth to give telegraph counterplay heads-up

Implement all those, I'll still adapt, play more defensively, become an even more annoying kiter. And you'll still see ppl come whine here, because they died to a Deadeye out there somewhere. It never stops.

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The biggest issue with this class in small scale roaming is the combination ranged attack specialist with heavily available stealth and evade/leaps.

We've spoken about a better solution to stealth being 'perfect can't see me' mode. However it doesnt seem Anet balances for small scale in WvW at all. Knowing that, I think the simplest solution would be to normalize the stealth availability to changes made in pvp and compensate the DE and thief in general with more party benefits.

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@Apokriphos.7042 said:The biggest issue with this class in small scale roaming is the combination ranged attack specialist with heavily available stealth and evade/leaps.

We've spoken about a better solution to stealth being 'perfect can't see me' mode. However it doesnt seem Anet balances for small scale in WvW at all. Knowing that, I think the simplest solution would be to normalize the stealth availability to changes made in pvp and compensate the DE and thief in general with more party benefits.

Which ranged stealth build has heavy evades and leaps?

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@kash.9213 said:

@Apokriphos.7042 said:The biggest issue with this class in small scale roaming is the combination ranged attack specialist with heavily available stealth and evade/leaps.

We've spoken about a better solution to stealth being 'perfect can't see me' mode. However it doesnt seem Anet balances for small scale in WvW at all. Knowing that, I think the simplest solution would be to normalize the stealth availability to changes made in pvp and compensate the DE and thief in general with more party benefits.

Which ranged stealth build has heavy evades and leaps?

Its been well established in this very thread that thieves of all flavors outclass most other builds in leap potention without cooldown. Combining it wtih easily available stealth and ranged reposition was a recipe for disaster from the start.

The only saving grace here is that anet doesnt care about the small grp roaming game mode.

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@Apokriphos.7042 said:

@Apokriphos.7042 said:The biggest issue with this class in small scale roaming is the combination ranged attack specialist with heavily available stealth and evade/leaps.

We've spoken about a better solution to stealth being 'perfect can't see me' mode. However it doesnt seem Anet balances for small scale in WvW at all. Knowing that, I think the simplest solution would be to normalize the stealth availability to changes made in pvp and compensate the DE and thief in general with more party benefits.

Which ranged stealth build has heavy evades and leaps?

Its been well established in this very thread that thieves of all flavors outclass most other builds in leap potention without cooldown. Combining it wtih easily available stealth and ranged reposition was a recipe for disaster from the start.

The only saving grace here is that anet doesnt care about the small grp roaming game mode.

That's fine you don't have to answer then.

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@Apokriphos.7042 said:

@Apokriphos.7042 said:The biggest issue with this class in small scale roaming is the combination ranged attack specialist with heavily available stealth and evade/leaps.

We've spoken about a better solution to stealth being 'perfect can't see me' mode. However it doesn't seem Anet balances for small scale in WvW at all. Knowing that, I think the simplest solution would be to normalize the stealth availability to changes made in pvp and compensate the DE and thief in general with more party benefits.

Which ranged stealth build has heavy evades and leaps?

Its been well established in this very thread that thieves of all flavors outclass most other builds in leap potential without cooldown. Combining it with easily available stealth and ranged reposition was a recipe for disaster from the start.

The only saving grace here is that anet doesn't care about the small grp roaming game mode.

Rifle #4 Death's Retreat doesn't have evade. And the way it behaves is that it only ports you after the animation of the projectile trail going backwards reaches the end, that's where your new position is. So combining those two sets of data point: a DE will fully eat to his face everything that's incoming at that start position until he's at the new position. And that's why you'll see many downed DEs where their body is well beyond the range limit of skills. So Death's Retreat will only save a Deadeye when the new position is beyond the range limit of the next incoming skills, not those that were cast before.

That's why you can't equate leap and evade together and say "The biggest issue with this class in small scale roaming is the combination ranged attack specialist with heavily available stealth and evade/leaps" The only two are Withdraw and Roll for Initiative. That's 2. That's what Kash implied I think, and you missed it (IMHO).

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thief needs the same stealth-treament like it had in pvp. There it has an decent amount of invisibility and isnt completely broken like in wvw

reveal is complete crap, since it has an incedibly low range and can be dodged..... or even cleansed by deadeyes (not like it prevents stealth anyway)

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@saerni.2584 said:

@"purple.6194" said:Well, hit two pages, Ladies and gents, original post just referring to deadeye and their ability to hide in keeps forever and port groups in from outside outer wall directly to lord room, ( yes this is a thing). No it is not a matter of strategy or skill. Yes you can do it with core and daredevil, it is easier with deadeye, people who do it aren't god gamer's I know 10 people across the NA servers ( there are more obviously merely restricting it to advance my point here) that do it for up six to hours during their respective timezones. 8 of those 10 have 600+ ping with unstable connection, 4 out of this group bug under the map to build untargettable cats from underneath. No they wont get banned its been years . While this is happening bl keeps becomes largely indefencible, redbl in particular is that much more vulnerable with the keeps being far easier to hide in and response time on that shithouse map being that much longer. As a result the keeps go to paper while the thieve's and squads that use them ktrain it up and just wait for them to logoff before bothering to upgrade on the bl's. This has its impact on everything else but again just one step at a time,

I said fix deadeye's and not fix thief for one simple reason, deadeye is the easiest to do this on, therefore that is what the keep hider's use. keep it as basic as possible, this does not need to get into the weeds of confusing concepts.If there was a skill element at all, fair enough its just an odd bad gameplay minigame within the game for players to play. There is not, this is obviously another unintentional result of throwing kitten at a wall without any followup.

I am not talking about roaming, issues with stealth generally, or strategies to 1shot thieves with rangers' cus thats solid gameplay! That is a whole other issue that obviously needs solving but again one baby step at a time. Up until this month there has been no reason to even bring it up, i don't think the forums are of much value at all, but again simply here since there was some actual wvw changes that even indicate someone is looking at wvw at all

ALSO can't resist, INB4 git gud round 2 :)

Lol. Clearly just making up examples. "I know a guy." "They are all hacking/exploiting under the map." "Six hours a day kek."

That sounds really boring. Kittens and puppies level of "why would anyone even try that for 20 minutes let alone 5+ hours?"

Oh right. Because it doesn't happen.

Also, why is permastealth even an issue if he's talking about hackers? If these people are untargetable due to being under the map, them being thieves is wholly irrelevant. If the deadeye is hiding in a keep and doing it legitimately without hacking, the fact that hackers exist is wholly irrelevant. Just sounds like an attempt to link thieves to hackers in the hope they get nerfed, frankly.

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@CharonXeno.4869 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

Ok, I'm willing to learn:How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

Read,Duel it.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@purple.6194 said:The mount sniff bell, to
indicate
a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye.So you are saying the skill that doesnt show stealthed players or reveal is not counterplay to permastealth deadeyes?!?!?

WHY DO I KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME WRONG?!

good question, but we cannot help u there, dawdly.

@Justine.6351 said:

@GenerationX.9178 said:I think thief should be deleted from the game. Most thieves spam dodge, stealth or port all day long not to mention most skills are instant.

And the laserbeams! Don't forget the laserbeams!

agreed, and i'd also accept to delete thief with lazorbeams, but he might just port to the other side of the map and dodge it :cold_sweat:

@saerni.2584 said:

@aspirine.6852 said:I would not mind that sniff can detect steath players too. Probably the easiest fix to annoy permastealths in keeps...

It already can. It plays the chime for player detected. However, it doesn't show the position of the stealthed person on mini map.

what aspirine writes was the original meaning of it, but it got softened up, bc thieves started crying instantly.

what saerni writes.... is plainly incorrect. you can get a good overview of who is where, roughly, but if the stealth is yet ongoing, you don't see them. only the map lag may be causing u to get a semi-accurate spotting with sniff. warclaw is overall pretty useless by now, and sniff's only real use is to spot a full zerg/blobs position within a limited, barely-out-of-sight range.

@"Caedmon.6798" ".... toi duel the class that hurts you. Its on You,not the spec. Realize this."u're either very sarcastic or try to joke here, right? why do u assume everyone wants to duel? who on earth has a billion of gearslots to run roamergear and skillsets just to duel some overbored spvpers? i wreckt enough of them with zergsets in single combat yet, but not bc i wanted, but becuse they'll just chase u and call their buddies if u don't just fight them. thanks to the snailclaw, it got even more easy for these people to force everyone to play on their terms. :-1:

(also even IF u dueled "a class"... classes have different builds. and you first need to be able to switch to your roamerbuild fast enough before engages happen, that's at least two klicks plus avoiding the warclawdaze at demounting.)

@CharonXeno.4869kinda expect their moves. smallscale players are greedy af, and are superlikely to chase you. turn around, let them run into you, and fire sometimes big bombs in expected pathing. worked way better before the dps nerfs on everything, since thieves literally just exploded against serious damage classes. now for example killing any of them with a hammer rev is way more complicated. u can surely 111 them down, but every move the zergset rev does is extremly slow and predictable.what's not working is to reveal deadeyes. ( @SuchosCZ.2167 ) your reveals will rarely be fast enough to cc them on most classes. firing AoE into their position when they set up this stealthing-house thingy is also good, since they always take at least a bit dmg, some even die straight there.

@aleron.1438 and u think it's better now bc they die in three seconds, from just a more heavy setup or (more common) a combined pew pew of three glasscannons? even in 1v1, it only got harder to kill a thief accidently.

and no @saerni.2584 ... what @purple.6194 wrote does happen. i even got accidently put under the map on many classes. and yeah u can cast stuff from there. and there's not too few thieves that do this perma-hide and seek play for hours.

@Apokriphos.7042 i only see too few nerfs towards smallscale. the focus of wvw should be largescale, that's literally what serperates it from spvp.

@Virdo.1540 has also a point... most revels are so incredibly smallrange that they miss a thief that stands even 400 next to you..

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@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@purple.6194 said:The mount sniff bell, to
indicate
a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye.So you are saying the skill that doesnt show stealthed players or reveal is not counterplay to permastealth deadeyes?!?!?

WHY DO I KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME WRONG?!

good question, but we cannot help u there, dawdly.

@GenerationX.9178 said:I think thief should be deleted from the game. Most thieves spam dodge, stealth or port all day long not to mention most skills are instant.

And the laserbeams! Don't forget the laserbeams!

agreed, and i'd also accept to delete thief with lazorbeams, but he might just port to the other side of the map and dodge it :cold_sweat:

@aspirine.6852 said:I would not mind that sniff can detect steath players too. Probably the easiest fix to annoy permastealths in keeps...

It already can. It plays the chime for player detected. However, it doesn't show the position of the stealthed person on mini map.

what aspirine writes was the original meaning of it, but it got softened up, bc thieves started crying instantly.

what saerni writes.... is plainly incorrect. you can get a good overview of who is where, roughly, but if the stealth is yet ongoing, you don't see them. only the map lag may be causing u to get a semi-accurate spotting with sniff. warclaw is overall pretty useless by now, and sniff's only real use is to spot a full zerg/blobs position within a limited, barely-out-of-sight range.

@"Caedmon.6798" ".... toi duel the class that hurts you. Its on You,not the spec. Realize this."u're either very sarcastic or try to joke here, right? why do u assume everyone wants to duel? who on earth has a billion of gearslots to run roamergear and skillsets just to duel some overbored spvpers? i wreckt enough of them with zergsets in single combat yet, but not bc i wanted, but becuse they'll just chase u and call their buddies if u don't just fight them. thanks to the snailclaw, it got even more easy for these people to force everyone to play on their terms. :-1:

(also even IF u dueled "a class"... classes have different builds. and you first need to be able to switch to your roamerbuild fast enough before engages happen, that's at least two klicks plus avoiding the warclawdaze at demounting.)

@CharonXeno.4869kinda expect their moves. smallscale players are greedy af, and are superlikely to chase you. turn around, let them run into you, and fire sometimes big bombs in expected pathing. worked way better before the dps nerfs on everything, since thieves literally just exploded against serious damage classes. now for example killing any of them with a hammer rev is way more complicated. u can surely 111 them down, but every move the zergset rev does is extremly slow and predictable.what's not working is to reveal deadeyes. ( @SuchosCZ.2167 ) your reveals will rarely be fast enough to cc them on most classes. firing AoE into their position when they set up this stealthing-house thingy is also good, since they always take at least a bit dmg, some even die straight there.

@aleron.1438 and u think it's better now bc they die in three seconds, from just a more heavy setup or (more common) a combined pew pew of three glasscannons? even in 1v1, it only got harder to kill a thief accidently.

and no @saerni.2584 ... what @purple.6194 wrote does happen. i even got accidently put under the map on many classes. and yeah u can cast stuff from there. and there's not too few thieves that do this perma-hide and seek play for hours.

@Apokriphos.7042 i only see too few nerfs towards smallscale. the focus of wvw should be largescale, that's literally what serperates it from spvp.

@Virdo.1540 has also a point... most revels are so incredibly smallrange that they miss a thief that stands even 400 next to you..

What is incorrect about saying it plays a chime? It does. I also said it doesn't ping the mini map, which it doesn't.

And your counter to my saying it is extremely boring and unlikely is to double down on claims of map hacking (which doesn't require thief at all) and saying people do hide in keeps for hours. Which is to say, I never actually said it never happens, just that it is so unlikely to happen/be worth it for a thief that it isn't a real problem. So, sure, we can argue past one another but like hiding in a keep for hours on end that would be boring and unproductive.

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

Where did the thief hurt you ? Most of you aint even soloing cus you lack the skill. You run in a group and get picked out and come to the forum to complain. You have Zero experience and didnt bother to take the time to duel the class that hurts you. Its on You,not the spec. Realize this.

FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

Oh sorry bruh, didnt see you quoting on me, mustve been a bug or sth :(

Where did teef hurt me? Idk bro, you can check my profile, I AM the thief. I played each teef spec with each weapon, I know how this class works, I play it, I master it.FYI I mirror dueled multiple top players that main teef (or to be more precise, are teef OTPs) and that includes DE fanatics that didnt swap their main since PoF release.

Design of DE is just bad, it shouldnt be allowed in the very first place, thats why its not fixable on any level, there will be always something. Only option is to delete it. I dont really care about this spec or clow*s that mindlessly defend it, I just skipped the part about complaining to conclusion, which is n o t fixable.You know what makes player good? When you have your favourite main toon, you know whats OP or unhealthy in it and you admit it. You just dont care, because you are good and youre carried by your own mechanical skills, not by the class you play or w/e it is in the meta atm

PS: You gave me a good laugh with 'where did teef hurt me' part. Its like watching breaking bad again lmao

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Dangus.6572 said:I play thief for like... 8years in WvW. The only thing that needs to be removed from thief is teleport. Then DE or DrD or whoever can hide in keeps as much as they want.

I hope u meant portal tele and not tele in general cuz kitten...

He probably does. I mean, it's not like anyone asked for portal, or preparations in general really, just for traps to be functional.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@mtnjkbm.7452 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

Ok, I'm willing to learn:How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

Play soulbeast and just rapidfire them.Play dragonhunter and trueshot them.Play fresh air ele and combowombo them.Play chrono and do what chrono does to them.Play dagger pistol thief, basi them and kill them out of stealth to assert dominance. Play sword dagger thief and show them whos the boss of ports.Play burn weaver, outsustain easily and pressure them until they run out of cooldowns or ini, then kill or watch them runaway.Play burn tempest, use two signets and watch them panic press all their buttons, keep burning until they eventually die.Play power dps tempest, reflect all their stuff and watch them not having a good time with their class, while your air minions and the fire elite one, keep attacking.Oh or play shortbow power rev and just sevenshot them. Or herold.If u cant oneshot, they probably play condi de with trailblazer stats, just like condi p/d thiefs with their meme scorpionwire.If thats the case, just ignore them, since they probably have some issues in rl and just want to be understood or someone hurt them at some point.

Chrono against deadeye?Mmmmmh.MMMMMMMMMMMMMH.MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMH.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

Ok, I'm willing to learn:How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)?Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched.

Play soulbeast and just rapidfire them.Play dragonhunter and trueshot them.Play fresh air ele and combowombo them.Play chrono and do what chrono does to them.Play dagger pistol thief, basi them and kill them out of stealth to assert dominance. Play sword dagger thief and show them whos the boss of ports.Play burn weaver, outsustain easily and pressure them until they run out of cooldowns or ini, then kill or watch them runaway.Play burn tempest, use two signets and watch them panic press all their buttons, keep burning until they eventually die.Play power dps tempest, reflect all their stuff and watch them not having a good time with their class, while your air minions and the fire elite one, keep attacking.Oh or play shortbow power rev and just sevenshot them. Or herold.If u cant oneshot, they probably play condi de with trailblazer stats, just like condi p/d thiefs with their meme scorpionwire.If thats the case, just ignore them, since they probably have some issues in rl and just want to be understood or someone hurt them at some point.

Chrono against deadeye?Mmmmmh.MMMMMMMMMMMMMH.
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMH
.Notice that unlike every other class, the chrono just does "what chrono does".

Ie hand their balls on a silver platter to the thief.

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