[Feedback] Infiltrator's Arrow (and Signet of Agility)

[cyberzombie.7348]

Again this puts sb builds that doesn't use trickery in a precarious situation if used during engagements as they will be practically tabbed out from a single use.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

goes back to lurking

[Sobx.1758]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

True, that's some weird claim to make. Maybe even moreso when we notice right after that he writes

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps

So... other classes can outrun/outstealth (nah) thieves, but if a team has a decent thief, they can automatically "outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps". I'm not sure how these 2 claims in one post are supposed to not cancel each other out.

[kash.9213]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

True, that's some weird claim to make. Maybe even moreso when we notice right after that he writes

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps

So... other classes can outrun/outstealth (nah) thieves, but if a team has a decent thief, they can automatically "outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps". I'm not sure how these 2 claims in one post are supposed to not cancel each other out.

Short bow climbing and distance is designed well for rotating points in tight line of site breaks and topography. That's not the same as trying to out run someone in WvW where walls don't always matter unless you're trying to shortbow, port, or scorp wire through invisible WvW walls or ground and where build need isn't tightly wrapped around spvp comps. And if you're not a gimmick build trolling people you'll probably get outstealthed, which isn't really a factor most of the time anyway so not a big deal. You can spend big real quick to maybe nope out but you're not out running anyone unless maybe with Dash and I think that elite dodge has too good distance.

I kind of agree though, not about the speed, but the potential to spend big faster. Doesn't always work out but we have good clutch plays available.

[Sobx.1758]

@kash.9213 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

True, that's some weird claim to make. Maybe even moreso when we notice right after that he writes

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps

So... other classes can outrun/outstealth (nah) thieves, but if a team has a decent thief, they can automatically "outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps". I'm not sure how these 2 claims in one post are supposed to not cancel each other out.unless

tl;dr:

1. you're not outrunning anyone unless...
2. you're not outstealthing anyone unless...

In my book it sounds like you're not getting outstealthed/outrunned if you don't want to get outstealthed/outrunned. Which kind of is the point.

[Exitus.3297]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

goes back to lurking

In longer, drawn out "races" I can't think of many classes who can keep up with the Thief. In shorter bursts, there are some classes that keep up with the Thief at least for a little while. Even if a class can't keep up with the Thief in terms of mobility 100% and instead just barely trail behind, that doesn't mean the Thief is safe.

Rangers immediately come to mind due to their mobility with the Sword or Greatsword combined with the range on their Longbow. Guardians have a number of blinks that are good for chasing, and if they went DH they also can use Longbow or their Spear class skill to pull the Thief back. Warriors can be deceptively mobile with the Greatsword and Dagger, and they can keep the Thief in a bad spot if they run Magebane Tether. I can list a few more examples, but the point is that in short bursts other classes can keep up with the Thief for a time, at least long enough for it to matter. This is important in sPvP as well because it means these classes can rotate almost as well as the Thief in terms of going from node to node. Keep in mind I'm not saying any of these classes outrun the Thief or even match them as a general rule; I'm saying they can keep up for long enough in some circumstances for it to matter. It is also important to note that these classes, while not being able to keep up in terms of raw mobility, will still have cooldowns to expend after using them because they don't have to manage resources the same way a Thief does.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Exitus.3297 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

goes back to lurking

In longer, drawn out "races" I can't think of many classes who can keep up with the Thief. In shorter bursts, there are some classes that keep up with the Thief at least for a little while. Even if a class can't keep up with the Thief in terms of mobility 100% and instead just barely trail behind, that doesn't mean the Thief is safe.

Rangers immediately come to mind due to their mobility with the Sword or Greatsword combined with the range on their Longbow. Guardians have a number of blinks that are good for chasing, and if they went DH they also can use Longbow or their Spear class skill to pull the Thief back. Warriors can be deceptively mobile with the Greatsword and Dagger, and they can keep the Thief in a bad spot if they run Magebane Tether. I can list a few more examples, but the point is that in short bursts other classes can keep up with the Thief for a time, at least long enough for it to matter. This is important in sPvP as well because it means these classes can rotate almost as well as the Thief in terms of going from node to node. Keep in mind I'm not saying any of these classes outrun the Thief or even match them as a general rule; I'm saying they can keep up for long enough in some circumstances for it to matter. It is also important to note that these classes, while not being able to keep up in terms of raw mobility, will still have cooldowns to expend after using them because they don't have to manage resources the same way a Thief does.

can you explain to me how can anything keep up with perma swiftness, triple dash, shortbow/hearthseeker and shadowstep ?DH spear pull is a meme, you can cancer its pull by shadowstepping or timing sb5, warriors mobility ( dashes ) take way too long, just hold W and use dodge, warrior will be ~300 units away, running slower then you unable to touch you, if you get tethered it means you fucked up already.Ranger with sicem is the only thing that can actually presure thief, and even then, shadowstep = safe, or just dash dash dash to los safty.

[saerni.2584]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Exitus.3297 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

goes back to lurking

In longer, drawn out "races" I can't think of many classes who can keep up with the Thief. In shorter bursts, there are some classes that keep up with the Thief at least for a little while. Even if a class can't keep up with the Thief in terms of mobility 100% and instead just barely trail behind, that doesn't mean the Thief is safe.

Rangers immediately come to mind due to their mobility with the Sword or Greatsword combined with the range on their Longbow. Guardians have a number of blinks that are good for chasing, and if they went DH they also can use Longbow or their Spear class skill to pull the Thief back. Warriors can be deceptively mobile with the Greatsword and Dagger, and they can keep the Thief in a bad spot if they run Magebane Tether. I can list a few more examples, but the point is that in short bursts other classes can keep up with the Thief for a time, at least long enough for it to matter. This is important in sPvP as well because it means these classes can rotate almost as well as the Thief in terms of going from node to node. Keep in mind I'm not saying any of these classes outrun the Thief or even match them as a general rule; I'm saying they can keep up for long enough in some circumstances for it to matter. It is also important to note that these classes, while not being able to keep up in terms of raw mobility, will still have cooldowns to expend after using them because they don't have to manage resources the same way a Thief does.

can you explain to me how can anything keep up with perma swiftness, triple dash, shortbow/hearthseeker and shadowstep ?DH spear pull is a meme, you can cancer its pull by shadowstepping or timing sb5, warriors mobility ( dashes ) take way too long, just hold W and use dodge, warrior will be ~300 units away, running slower then you unable to touch you, if you get tethered it means you kitten up already.Ranger with sicem is the only thing that can actually presure thief, and even then, shadowstep = safe, or just dash dash dash to los safty.

I'd say there are a few builds that can keep up. It's very game mode dependent because if you only need a chase a thief a short distance then many more professions can keep up. So sPvP chasing node to node is a lot different than WvW for mobility purposes.

In WvW, most just need to get out of combat to swap to mount. Then, assuming you time your dodges right you can WP or drag things out a long time.

But let's take the mount out of it. Because obviously mount is unique aspect in WvW vs sPvP and not really on point here.

In general, Ranger (various builds) can keep up with thief. So can Warrior. Both are pretty specialized, not all builds can do this and honestly I'm not sure these builds are worth it from a gameplay perspective. Then again, I question thief being built out for max mobility as if that is the only thing you should ever try to do as a thief. Holo is pretty mobile. But loses out to the teleports of Rev and Guard who still have the edge over Engineer despite that profession's access to super speed. Depends on the build but these are all somewhat comparable only because unlike ranger/warrior you don't see people specifically running super mobility.

[Axl.8924]

@saerni.2584 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Exitus.3297 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

goes back to lurking

In longer, drawn out "races" I can't think of many classes who can keep up with the Thief. In shorter bursts, there are some classes that keep up with the Thief at least for a little while. Even if a class can't keep up with the Thief in terms of mobility 100% and instead just barely trail behind, that doesn't mean the Thief is safe.

Rangers immediately come to mind due to their mobility with the Sword or Greatsword combined with the range on their Longbow. Guardians have a number of blinks that are good for chasing, and if they went DH they also can use Longbow or their Spear class skill to pull the Thief back. Warriors can be deceptively mobile with the Greatsword and Dagger, and they can keep the Thief in a bad spot if they run Magebane Tether. I can list a few more examples, but the point is that in short bursts other classes can keep up with the Thief for a time, at least long enough for it to matter. This is important in sPvP as well because it means these classes can rotate almost as well as the Thief in terms of going from node to node. Keep in mind I'm not saying any of these classes outrun the Thief or even match them as a general rule; I'm saying they can keep up for long enough in some circumstances for it to matter. It is also important to note that these classes, while not being able to keep up in terms of raw mobility, will still have cooldowns to expend after using them because they don't have to manage resources the same way a Thief does.

can you explain to me how can anything keep up with perma swiftness, triple dash, shortbow/hearthseeker and shadowstep ?DH spear pull is a meme, you can cancer its pull by shadowstepping or timing sb5, warriors mobility ( dashes ) take way too long, just hold W and use dodge, warrior will be ~300 units away, running slower then you unable to touch you, if you get tethered it means you kitten up already.Ranger with sicem is the only thing that can actually presure thief, and even then, shadowstep = safe, or just dash dash dash to los safty.

I'd say there are a few builds that can keep up. It's very game mode dependent because if you only need a chase a thief a short distance then many more professions can keep up. So sPvP chasing node to node is a lot different than WvW for mobility purposes.

In WvW, most just need to get out of combat to swap to mount. Then, assuming you time your dodges right you can WP or drag things out a long time.

But let's take the mount out of it. Because obviously mount is unique aspect in WvW vs sPvP and not really on point here.

In general, Ranger (various builds) can keep up with thief. So can Warrior. Both are pretty specialized, not all builds can do this and honestly I'm not sure these builds are worth it from a gameplay perspective. Then again, I question thief being built out for max mobility as if that is the only thing you should ever try to do as a thief. Holo is pretty mobile. But loses out to the teleports of Rev and Guard who still have the edge over Engineer despite that profession's access to super speed. Depends on the build but these are all somewhat comparable only because unlike ranger/warrior you don't see people specifically running super mobility.

That and rangers got strong CC "AXE/AXE and bows and mudslide.

[hanabal lecter.2495]

Stay quiet unless you want the mirage treament, you want 1 evade?

[Exitus.3297]

@hanabal lecter.2495 said:Stay quiet unless you want the mirage treament, you want 1 evade?

Honestly I would rather they stop with shortsighted nerfs and actually address the roots of the problem.

I personally would ask they revert/lessen the IA nerf and take a look at the Perma-stealth traits of Shadow Arts, namely Shadow's Rejuvenation and Shadow's Embrace, that have become such a crutch.

P.S. I also personally disagreed with the Mirage treatment; I was however less vocal about it because I'm not as experienced with Mesmers as I am Thieves.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past.

It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls.And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so.

Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good".

Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs.

I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you...

For WvW the change is just dumb.

And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start.Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg?

My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff".Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter.

hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ?please im really curious.

goes back to lurking

Holo can try with ricket boots and holo leap I guess, and soulbeast can out run a thief to a point thief has 0 ini left to do anything. This isn't a flat out race though, more like keeping up for a short distance to matter

Stealthing though ??