Necro hate.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"silent killer.5732" said:Man I've been helping people left and right from t1 to t4 who's struggling in any sort of fractals runs and there's the meta heads who thinks only a certain class can work and certain class can not be nothing but a player who wants to lay and pray to be carried.My necro can go cdps pdps and hsc all at full capacity and I found myself carrying the party I'm in even though I mostly join parties who asked specifically a certain class not a necro.I feel like the community needs to be little bit educated about what the necro can offerThey all think the necro is only good for pulling and surviving and aoe with epidemic

I'd say that as a whole it's even worse than that. The community need to be educated about more than just what necro have to offer, it's need to be educated about what non meta build can offer (and that's huge). The "meta head" like you call them just worship blindly meta builds.

[silent killer.5732]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"silent killer.5732" said:Man I've been helping people left and right from t1 to t4 who's struggling in any sort of fractals runs and there's the meta heads who thinks only a certain class can work and certain class can not be nothing but a player who wants to lay and pray to be carried.My necro can go cdps pdps and hsc all at full capacity and I found myself carrying the party I'm in even though I mostly join parties who asked specifically a certain class not a necro.I feel like the community needs to be little bit educated about what the necro can offerThey all think the necro is only good for pulling and surviving and aoe with epidemic

I'd say that as a whole it's even worse than that. The community need to be educated about more than just what necro have to offer, it's need to be educated about what non meta build can offer (and that's huge). The "meta head" like you call them just worship blindly meta builds.

LOL it's true

[SunTzu.4513]

I'd say that as a whole it's even worse than that. The community need to be educated about more than just what necro have to offer, it's need to be educated about what non meta build can offer (and that's huge). The "meta head" like you call them just worship blindly meta builds.

Aside from CM and Raids imo meta does not really matter. And even there you need a premade group to get the most use out of it. Sure it is usefull and has it's place if i play with guildies or my static we mostly run a metacomp if we do cm because it's just so much smoother and faster if evrerybody knows his role and the mechaniks. GW2 is a skill based game. In other MMO's you can compensate the lack of game knowledge and/or player skill by outgearing content with the time if the game progressed on. Unfortunately imo the playerbase is already divded trough a huge skillgap. This comes from the huge difficulty differences of the open world related to instanced content. I run a lot of T1 fractals just for the fun these days. People start to complain even there about playing a non meta build. Happned yesterday on my Spellbreaker to me. Uhhhh we think you play berserker why not berserker so much more DPS hurrdurr... Ended up that the guys goes down to Mai Trin within the first two minutes in a god damned T1 tier for like 4 times. On the fifth try i soloed her from around 80%. Took a while but def/strength/SP is perfekt for those kind of stuff. After i finished her they just left instantly...

[Dadnir.5038]

@SunTzu.4513 said:Aside from CM and Raids imo meta does not really matter. And even there you need a premade group to get the most use out of it. Sure it is usefull and has it's place if i play with guildies or my static we mostly run a metacomp if we do cm because it's just so much smoother and faster if evrerybody knows his role and the mechaniks. GW2 is a skill based game. In other MMO's you can compensate the lack of game knowledge and/or player skill by outgearing content with the time if the game progressed on. Unfortunately imo the playerbase is already divded trough a huge skillgap. This comes from the huge difficulty differences of the open world related to instanced content. I run a lot of T1 fractals just for the fun these days. People start to complain even there about playing a non meta build. Happned yesterday on my Spellbreaker to me. Uhhhh we think you play berserker why not berserker so much more DPS hurrdurr... Ended up that the guys goes down to Mai Trin within the first two minutes in a god damned T1 tier for like 4 times. On the fifth try i soloed her from around 80%. Took a while but def/strength/SP is perfekt for those kind of stuff. After i finished her they just left instantly...

I think we've all got our share of this kind of players, sometime they even kick you when you're doing all the job for them.

[Teratus.2859]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@SunTzu.4513 said:Aside from CM and Raids imo meta does not really matter. And even there you need a premade group to get the most use out of it. Sure it is usefull and has it's place if i play with guildies or my static we mostly run a metacomp if we do cm because it's just so much smoother and faster if evrerybody knows his role and the mechaniks. GW2 is a skill based game. In other MMO's you can compensate the lack of game knowledge and/or player skill by outgearing content with the time if the game progressed on. Unfortunately imo the playerbase is already divded trough a huge skillgap. This comes from the huge difficulty differences of the open world related to instanced content. I run a lot of T1 fractals just for the fun these days. People start to complain even there about playing a non meta build. Happned yesterday on my Spellbreaker to me. Uhhhh we think you play berserker why not berserker so much more DPS hurrdurr... Ended up that the guys goes down to Mai Trin within the first two minutes in a god damned T1 tier for like 4 times. On the fifth try i soloed her from around 80%. Took a while but def/strength/SP is perfekt for those kind of stuff. After i finished her they just left instantly...

I think we've all got our share of this kind of players, sometime they even kick you when you're doing all the job for them.

It's always hilarious when you get someone like that who's so confident in the capabilities of some super high DPS meta build they copied off the internet and they just get wrecked seconds into a fight xDEven more hilarious when they try to blame someone else's build for their inability to dodge on time lol

I've had so many of those over the years, mostly in the earlier days of GW2 though, not so much these days.

[Axl.8924]

Well thats cause DPS isn't the end all be all when it comes to fractals, sometimes being a class that sacrifices a bit of DPS for that extra support to get rid of condis is a life changer, making everyone and your life easier, and contributing to less downs and more overall damage done due to less deaths.

A perfect example is, scourge isn't necessarily top DPS but being able to turn conditions into boons is pretty nice for higher tier, especially to help your team out.

[Shroud.2307]

@silent killer.5732 said:Man I've been helping people left and right from t1 to t4 who's struggling in any sort of fractals runs and there's the meta heads who thinks only a certain class can work and certain class can not be nothing but a player who wants to lay and pray to be carried.My necro can go cdps pdps and hsc all at full capacity and I found myself carrying the party I'm in even though I mostly join parties who asked specifically a certain class not a necro.I feel like the community needs to be little bit educated about what the necro can offerThey all think the necro is only good for pulling and surviving and aoe with epidemic

Why are you joining parties that are specifically asking that you don't?

You're not teaching anyone anything by disrespecting their requests. It's ignorant and borderline griefing. Start your own party and tell people you'll teach them how good Necro can be. I'll bet it'll be real popular.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Shroud.2307 said:Why are you joining parties that are specifically asking that you don't?

You're not teaching anyone anything by disrespecting their requests. It's ignorant and borderline griefing. Start your own party and tell people you'll teach them how good Necro can be. I'll bet it'll be real popular.

Obviously, it's always a matter of point of view but where does the disrespect start? When someone enter a group that look for a different profession or when a group refuse a profession based on prejudice? From my point of view it's disrespect only to narrowminded people, for broadminded people it's an opportunity to learn that there is more than what the rigid meta let you see. Experienced players can teach and can be taught, this is how you make progress. Refusing to teach or to be taught is how you end up roting.

[Shroud.2307]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:Why are you joining parties that are specifically asking that you don't?

You're not teaching anyone anything by disrespecting their requests. It's ignorant and borderline griefing. Start your own party and tell people you'll teach them how good Necro can be. I'll bet it'll be real popular.

Obviously, it's always a matter of point of view but where does the disrespect start? When someone enter a group that look for a different profession or when a group refuse a profession based on prejudice? From my point of view it's disrespect only to narrowminded people, for broadminded people it's an opportunity to learn that there is more than what the rigid meta let you see. Experienced players can teach and can be taught, this is how you make progress. Refusing to teach or to be taught is how you end up roting.

You're not allowed to wear shoes in my house.But I can show you the benefits of wearing shoes in the house.Then do it at your own house.But I want to show you.

I understand the frustration of being excluded from groups just for the class you play, I've experienced it personally, but trying to force people to open their minds is like a Jehovah's Witness coming to your door.People are entitled to exclude you if they want because you have equal freedom to do the same. It would be different if as a Necro you were unable to start your own groups or to form a group, but that isn't the case.

I just want to go on record and say that I always play what I find most fun. I don't care what the meta is. But if I'm not wanted in a group for what I'm playing, be it PvE, PvP or WvW, I will respect that not because I understand how my class/build fails to bring value to their group, but because of courtesy.

[silent killer.5732]

@Shroud.2307 said:

@silent killer.5732 said:Man I've been helping people left and right from t1 to t4 who's struggling in any sort of fractals runs and there's the meta heads who thinks only a certain class can work and certain class can not be nothing but a player who wants to lay and pray to be carried.My necro can go cdps pdps and hsc all at full capacity and I found myself carrying the party I'm in even though I mostly join parties who asked specifically a certain class not a necro.I feel like the community needs to be little bit educated about what the necro can offerThey all think the necro is only good for pulling and surviving and aoe with epidemic

Why are you joining parties that are specifically asking that you don't?

You're not teaching anyone anything by disrespecting their requests. It's ignorant and borderline griefing. Start your own party and tell people you'll teach them how good Necro can be. I'll bet it'll be real popular.

Its not like i join fresh parties who’s asking specific classes just to proof a point. I join struggling parties who already have key role classes but asking for one class in particular even though I know for a fact the necro can do better job in that particular fight

For example in the underwater fight or that fight on the ship or even swamplandThe necro can do extremely good if the party have a hfb and alac i ask respectively if they are willing to try and give it a try with the necro instead of asking for a bs only or a guardian. Im not dumb to fk anyone’s lfg by forcing myself in. I usually finish my dailies right after the rest so I almost never felt the need to force myself in anyone’s lfg

[KrHome.1920]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:Why are you joining parties that are specifically asking that you don't?

You're not teaching anyone anything by disrespecting their requests. It's ignorant and borderline griefing. Start your own party and tell people you'll teach them how good Necro can be. I'll bet it'll be real popular.

Obviously, it's always a matter of point of view but where does the disrespect start? When someone enter a group that look for a different profession or when a group refuse a profession based on prejudice? From my point of view it's disrespect only to narrowminded people, for broadminded people it's an opportunity to learn that there is more than what the rigid meta let you see. Experienced players can teach and can be taught, this is how you make progress. Refusing to teach or to be taught is how you end up roting.Unfortunately this point of view fails in face of reality, so why even trying? It's just a waste of time.

Narrowminded people will always look for simple answers and copypasting metabuilds is a simple answer. Just leave these people alone - in videogames and in reality.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"KrHome.1920" said:Unfortunately this point of view fails in face of reality, so why even trying? It's just a waste of time.

I would say that it fail "nowaday", it used to be something appreciated earlier in the game.

[Shroud.2307]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:Why are you joining parties that are specifically asking that you don't?

You're not teaching anyone anything by disrespecting their requests. It's ignorant and borderline griefing. Start your own party and tell people you'll teach them how good Necro can be. I'll bet it'll be real popular.

Obviously, it's always a matter of point of view but where does the disrespect start? When someone enter a group that look for a different profession or when a group refuse a profession based on prejudice? From my point of view it's disrespect only to narrowminded people, for broadminded people it's an opportunity to learn that there is more than what the rigid meta let you see. Experienced players can teach and can be taught, this is how you make progress. Refusing to teach or to be taught is how you end up roting.Unfortunately this point of view fails in face of reality, so why even trying? It's just a waste of time.

Narrowminded people will always look for simple answers and copypasting metabuilds is a simple answer. Just leave these people alone - in videogames and in reality.

For clarity in case I'm being misunderstood here, I agree that people shouldn't be closed minded about classes/builds. As I'd said, I often prefer to play what I find most fun over what's best. If I'm joining a group regardless of content, I will change class/build if I'm asked - if I don't feel like doing that, I'll start my own group.

I suppose it wasn't the point of the thread though, so I shouldn't have said anything in the first place. I've just experienced people trying to force their way in to groups before and know how annoying it is.

[KrHome.1920]

Well I am a bit lost in this discussion as the only team based pve I do is some fractals every few months for the legendary I work on at this time. I have never had any issues joining a group but of course I notice the "lf xyz - no necros!" lfg posts too from time to time. Do I care? No, not really.

To me it makes no sense to try to teach people in a videogame, that they might learn something, when they are so kind to let me join their group. These people just don't exist for me. They are simply not there. And if only such people are left someday, the game is dead to me and I play something else.

@topic:

and yet anet always hits us with the nerf bat.Actually necro has constantly been buffed in pve from 2012 up till now. I can't remember one single nerf in this game mode. In 2012 core necro dealt even less damage than now and was only single target. Let that sink in!

When reaper was added it dealt 33% less damage in shroud than today (you lost dps, when you stayed in shroud for longer than soul spiral). Axe and GS have seen huge damage buffs. Various necro traits got significant direct damage multipliers. All these changes catapulted reaper from 23k dps to 34k. That's a dps increase of almost 50%!

Scourge is basically the same since pof release in pve (except its shade stacking bug that got fixed) while in the other 2 game modes it saw extreme nerfs.

[Dadnir.5038]

@KrHome.1920 said:I can't remember one single nerf in this game mode.

Lich form and epidemic nerf are probably the only 2 real nerfs to the PvE necromancer.

• Lich form used to have mark of horror generating sustainable minions critter making the necromancer an ever growing source of bleed. (Was nerfed because the gameplay started to enter the competitives modes. This has been a short lived gameplay only truly possible in PvE due to the HoT mushrooms in raids)
• Epidemic used to be a lot stronger, was nerfed in PoF because player started to use epidemic bounce on a large scale. (It's important to keep in mind that the possibility to use epidemic this way existed since released of the game but when it started to become popular in raids the community asked loudly for nerfs)

[KrHome.1920]

True... epidemic... that skill was more an exploit than a mechanic, so it was a deserved nerf.

And we could say the same about the lich minion skill - just to a lesser extent, as it wasn't as braindead as epidemic.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Shroud.2307Consider being ready to swap build or professions when asked. Many raiders' complaints are about others feeling they are entitled to play a role the squad does not need. Have more than one ready if the squad demands it.

@KrHome.1920 Epidemic went a long time without its dps being nerfed because Necro had no other condition cleave with decent output and Epi does not damage its target so I would argue its nerf was for raid balance rather than being an exploit. It already had a mild nerf to remove its instant proc' due to WvW Necro-stacking.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"KrHome.1920" said:True... epidemic... that skill was more an exploit than a mechanic, so it was a deserved nerf.

And we could say the same about the lich minion skill - just to a lesser extent, as it wasn't as braindead as epidemic.

I'm not sure that qualifying epidemic as brain dead is correct. At the very least this gameplay required coordination between players in order to exploit the short timeframe in which the adds survived while under the condition pressure. I wouldn't say that exploiting mucle memory to unleash a more or less complex rotation of skills require more brain than that.

That said, it's always a matter of point of view. If you just look at the result, sure epidemic was OP. Personally I'd say the main issue of the skill is and have always been that you copy the conditions from a foe and the environment offering foes with high health pool was what make this specific skill design OP. In order to be balanced, epidemic should copy the conditions on the necromancer to the foes around him because, there is limited amount of risk that one can personally take in order to deal damage and choosing to take down your foes with you when you're overloaded with conditions feel very "necromancer".

[KrHome.1920]

Epidemic became a problem when the 25 stack limit for conditions got removed and people started stacking viper builds. That's why I called it exploit. It was an exploit of the mechanical changes to condi application, because it multiplied the intended damage increase to absurd levels.

Even uncoordinated it was way too strong in every game mode, just because there did not exist a damage limit anymore. It originally was designed with the 25 stack limit in mind.