Point contribution in downed state

[SteepledHat.1345]

I don't see why someone should be able to contribute to point contribution in downed state. For small and solo roaming, numbers are already an advantage. Thoughts on making it so that downed bodies don't count towards point capture?

[DemonSeed.3528]

I'm not sure if the rules for that are global so maybe they might not be able to do that because of pvp.

[Strider Pj.2193]

If they aren’t ‘defeated’ they should absolutely count.

[Strider Pj.2193]

And only stealth classes would be bitter about that.

[ASP.8093]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:And only stealth classes would be bitter about that.

It's one of the things I consider quite fair about playing thief, actually: if I want to go all slippery do-nothing stealth-spam in a fight, then my opponent gets a free cap on the camp, or sentry, or tower, or whatever. If I care about holding the objective, I need to measure out my stealth usage just like a ranged build needs to be careful with its kiting.

Downs contesting is fine (in WvW, at least; I don't have a strong opinion for SPvP) because usually the node just stays contested while you're fighting anyway. For heavy stealth users, you just have to finish your target quickly, but thief, mesmer, ranger, and engineer all have very viable ways to secure a stomp without using stealth.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@ASP.8093 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:And only stealth classes would be bitter about that.

It's one of the things I consider quite fair about playing thief, actually: if I want to go all slippery do-nothing stealth-spam in a fight, then my opponent gets a free cap on the camp, or sentry, or tower, or whatever. If I care about holding the objective, I need to measure out my stealth usage just like a ranged build needs to be careful with its kiting.

Downs contesting is fine (in WvW, at least; I don't have a strong opinion for SPvP) because usually the node just

stays

contested while you're fighting anyway. For heavy stealth users, you just have to finish your target quickly, but thief, mesmer, ranger, and engineer all have very viable ways to secure a stomp without using stealth.

Yeah, I don’t have an opinion either way about sPvP as I don’t play it, and don’t understand the nuances.

But I assumed as this was in the WvW section that is was in reference to WvW. Prolly shouldn’t have assumed. ?

[Ronin.4501]

Normally I would disagree with the OP regarding this post, but there are 2 factors regarding downstate that have me wavering; First, downstate balance for classes is even worse than regular balance between classes. Necros downstate attacks are almost stronger than they are when the necro is alive, and at times it seems that no matter what I do, I can't get the ranger's pet to stop reviving while in downstate (depending on the pet, but also because the pet functions for a ranger in downstate are STILL buggy and exploitable EIGHT FREAKIN' YEARS after Anet realized it was an issue). Meanwhile a warrior gets a single hammer toss for a 2s interrupt...and then they die. I don't think I've ever lived long enough in downstate as an engineer to use the bomb. Second, because Anet's (or rather Amazon's) server lag has become so bad of late I'm seeing more and more players go into downstate where they aren't in the actual location they're being shown on the screen. A few times this has happened in a camp where I'm seeing the player in downstate outside the camp but somehow the camp is still ticking for them. I either have to choose to hunt for wherever they might actually be downed (in one case my attacks were going off and into a cliffside wall (NWC on red BL) or sit in the circle to prevent cap and in the meantime allow the enemy player to fully revive.
If Anet spent some time resolving these issues, I'd have no problem with a player in downstate capping an objective, but I have about as much faith in Anet resolving the Middle East conflict...

[Bristingr.5034]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:If they aren’t ‘defeated’ they should absolutely count.

While I agree, I wanna play a little bit of devil's advocate on this. Players on Mounts, Ele Mist Form, Chrono Shield Bubble, Thief Invis, etc. all don't contribute to point capture, but they're still alive and well.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Bristingr.5034 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:If they aren’t ‘defeated’ they should absolutely count.

While I agree, I wanna play a little bit of devil's advocate on this. Players on Mounts, Ele Mist Form, Chrono Shield Bubble, Thief Invis, etc. all don't contribute to point capture, but they're still alive and well.

Each of those apply additional benefits to players.

Invisibility shouldn’t count. Regardless of thief, mesmer, engie, or any other class that gets stealth from other sources. (Ranger, smoke fields, Druid drops..)

As an Ele main, (mostly anyway) mist form hasn’t allowed it for years. I don’t want that counting either. I think it provides enough advantages..

Chrono shield bubble, I can’t comment on.. I don’t know enough about it.

Mounts was fairly recently removed. Mostly because they can’t be cc’d and add an additional 8+K HP.

Arguing whether downstate is its own advantage is a separate argument than this thread IMO. But downstate itself is available to each class. (Balancing it is a different thing as well lol)

At least, that’s kinda how I see it. I am not saying I am right. Just that I THINK I am right. ?. ?

[Jilora.9524]

I think it's pretty simple. It's because they aren't dead. Now I don't know for sure I can contribute to capturing something while downed alone by some crazy I killed everything but got downed in the circle. But as for prevent you from taking the objective while I'm downed yes, I count because I am not dead. Downed in GW2 is not dead.

[Shining One.1635]

@Jilora.9524 said:Now I don't know for sure I can contribute to capturing something while downed alone by some crazy I killed everything but got downed in the circle.I'm fairly sure you can capture while in downstate. When fighting over a camp, I went in for a stealth stomp on someone I downed and they captured the camp while I was in stealth. I've also been on the other side and captured the camp when the enemy went for a stealth or invulnerable stomp on me. These happened years ago, so I don't know if it's still the case.

[Bristingr.5034]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Bristingr.5034 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:If they aren’t ‘defeated’ they should absolutely count.

While I agree, I wanna play a little bit of devil's advocate on this. Players on Mounts, Ele Mist Form, Chrono Shield Bubble, Thief Invis, etc. all don't contribute to point capture, but they're still alive and well.

Each of those apply additional benefits to players.

Invisibility shouldn’t count. Regardless of thief, mesmer, engie, or any other class that gets stealth from other sources. (Ranger, smoke fields, Druid drops..)

As an Ele main, (mostly anyway) mist form hasn’t allowed it for years. I don’t want that counting either. I think it provides enough advantages..

Chrono shield bubble, I can’t comment on.. I don’t know enough about it.

Mounts was fairly recently removed. Mostly because they can’t be cc’d and add an additional 8+K HP.

Arguing whether downstate is its own advantage is a separate argument than this thread IMO. But downstate itself is available to each class. (Balancing it is a different thing as well lol)

At least, that’s kinda how I see it. I am not saying I am right. Just that I THINK I am right. ?. ?

Eh, the mounts have no defense. It's basically 3 hits and they're off their mounts or 0.0005 seconds if you dive into a zerg.Edit: Also, I messed up. I meant the Chrono Time-warp (F4 skill). It rewinds time to where were you at between 0.5-3 seconds ago (depending on # of clones out), cooldowns and all.

[lovemghool.7613]

i dont think this would change just because it is going to be troublesome to code when in all gamemodes point capture/contribution works with downstate.

Arenanet things

[Justine.6351]

I think it would be a fair nerf to downed state. Its not as overreaching as "NO DOWNEDSTATE PERMANENT!".