Would a Canthan trained Assassin use a pistol in this day-and-age of Tyria?

[Demonhead.7584]

So the question in the title has been eating away at me for a few years now, and even more so since it was announced we'd be heading to Cantha in EoD. I'm curious to explore this with other Thief/Assassin enthusiasts =)

I was an Assassin player in GW1, and to-date, I've always tried to play my thief as if it were an Assassin as much as possible. I've played it primarily with D/D, and then moved to S/D while I was in WvW, because I enjoyed the idea of porting in and out of combat with Sword 2 (Just like Aura of Displacement in Gw1).

I refrained from using any combination of pistol (despite it being a fairly strong PVE and PVP option) because of the role-play limits I've got on my character -- and that I didn't like that we had infinite ammo coming from front-loaded pistols. After having made HOPE, I became more comfortable using the pistol, but in the end it just didn't feel right. I felt I was betraying the idea of a true-to-form Tyrian Assassin.

To this end, I'm curious to see if other ex-Assassin players would think it reasonable that a Canthan trained Assassin in today's Tyria, would in fact use a pistol in their arsenal.

My thoughts are that for an Assassin (class wise), it'd make sense for them to adopt the pistol as it's a versatile weapon and they would try to get the kill as silently or at least as effectively as possible.

Idk, curious for discussion and thoughts!

(Also for EoD, I think it'd be pretty fun if we got axe/axe or main hand axe, which does aoe dmg and a 300 radius (like a magic-powered Kusarigama)).

[draxynnic.3719]

Good question. The principle of Canthan assassins seems to be one of weapons that are reasonably easy to conceal - so pistols might actually be their favoured ranged weapon, if they got their hands on them. On the other hand, pistols are loud, which they might regard as a problem.

[Demonhead.7584]

Yes, I'm thinking along similar lines! As we've seen with Order of Whisper's pistol, it's got a silencer on it, so perhaps it's possible.

[Yasai.3549]

They would use Dagger 4.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Do Canthans have guns?

It should be noted that, other than deadeyes, there's not much in the way of guns in Elona. There's no Awakened with guns, just some select few Order of Shadows, Hanaseem, and corsairs. This can be attributed to Elona being cut off but there being some smuggling routes. Which would explain why only shady and criminal groups have guns. But Cantha had no such smuggling routes - though guns existed in Sea of Sorrows novel (at the very least after the second time skip - not sure if they're in the timeframe segment when Zhaitan rose), would they have been traded with Canthans? Would Cantha know about handheld guns at all? Would they have been developed separately than charr inventions?

If so, then I think that Canthan assassins would use such. Both pistols and rifles - the latter in a more deadeye fashion, the former in a more Assassin's Creed hidden pistol fashion. They may even develop with the intent silencing the noise and increasing accuracy before things like firing rate and reload speed compared to our own development of guns, due to the higher cultural view of assassins (being that they served as a spy network, bodyguard faction, and, well, assassination faction in GW1).

[Hypnowulf.7403]

I mean, if ArenaNet were up for adding new weapons, it'd be entirely valid for them to have crossbow gauntlets if Assassin was added as a class or elite specialisation to Cantha. Or do we already have Assassin? I forget. I don't think we do? Do we? Hm. Anyway! Yes, crossbow gauntlets—or wristbows, if you are so inclined—are a thing, actually a thing. They've been picking up popularity of late. Even the werewolf fellah in that new game about werewolves and the environment—Earthblood—uses one.

It would—I would imagine, at least—be quieter than a pistol and probably more appealing to the whole Assassin aesthetique. It'd certainly make a lot more sense than spring-mounted blades popping out from where a chopped off finger might otherwise be. That's very silly. I mean, it might be actually based upon something for all I know... though it's still rather silly. Though who am I to talk being a dragon-worshipping humongous cat-hyena beast? Finger knives for everyone!

Though, less facetiously? Silencers wouldn't be unheard of. ...which is a really funny sentence that I didn't actually intend but I'm owning it and running with it. Haa. I really shouldn't laugh at my own unintentional jokes. Where was I? Right! Rule of Wonder, I suppose. I mean, with all the shenanigans and whoziwotsits that we have running arounds-and-abouts in Tyria right now? Silencers wouldn't be out of place.

I think the Luxans pioneered cannon technology so they might've done pretty sweet things with gunpowder-barrel weapons in the interim. Or they might've stagnated and tehy're using crossbow gauntlets now! I'm sorry, I'm not sure why I'm fixating on those. It's not like I'd actually ever play anything other than some flavour of Mesmer. I'm an emotional baby... I'm not going to kill anything, no it's just taking a forced nap.

I'd be a really bad Assassin.

So, yes. Live your dream. I couldn't see why silencers wouldn't fit. I mean, like I said, Luxans love their gunpowder. They were called Luxans, yes? I'm not entirely invested in most of the human lore beyond the Elonians so I'm not certain if that's what they were called. Hey, Draxynnic? Luxans, yes? Luxans? Cannon-people? Yes?

So, there you go. Fat lot of good this post was. Sorry, I'm more interested in dragons.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Do Canthans have guns?

It's a good question, and one I don't think we can definitively say 'yes' or 'no' to. The Luxons, at least, had cannons on their Siege Turtles, so they definitely understand the basic principle, but historically China had cannons before Europe but lagged behind when it came to handguns. In Tyria's history, the charr seem to have made the same leap - they didn't have gunpowder in GW1, but are credited with inventing handguns.

They were known in Kryta while there was still trade before the rising of Orr, so it's likely that the Canthans at least know of them. Whether they'd regard them as more than a foreign curiosity, though, is another question. As discussed in another thread, it might put a bit of a dampener on your enthusiasm to adopt handguns if a significant portion of your army are spellcasters (and GW1 assassins had ranged spells, so the favoured ranged weapon for a Canthan assassin might actually be 'scepter'). You might see less magically-inclined professions pick them up as an equaliser, or the Canthans might regard them as a foreign foible that they just don't need.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Between the Luxons having cannons over 250 years ago and going by the years of exposure to Krytans prior to Orr rising I believe its fair to think that they likely do, at least until we learn otherwise, though technological stagnation is not unlikely with highly isolationist cultures.

Yer really jonesing for scepters or foci on Thieves, aren't you Drax? :/

[draxynnic.3719]

Not really pushing anything in this thread so much as making an observation. GW1 assassins did have some, albeit limited, ability to attack at a distance via magical means that thief has largely lost, so it would make logical sense that the GW2 Canthan assassin's answer to needing a ranged attack could be 'use magic'.

[Demonhead.7584]

These are all great thoughts, I appreciate everyone's input!

I think scepter could be an interesting addition to thief, as long as it's mid-ranged and not something far-reaching like Guardian scepter. If it's to do with close-ranged magic, or something that does local AoE, I think it'd fit with other thief playstyles, but just with more survivability and area denial, perhaps.

As for Luxon cannons, I think we're all on a similar page here. However, I'd like to think that between Kurzick understanding of what is essentially Canthan-Druid magic, and Luxon Siege Turtles, Cantha would have the foundation required to develop some form of hand-held projectile, magic or not.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Imagine Thieves getting Mace in the Expac lol

Some weapon that could knock-out cold your enemy in silence. Would be interesting to see how thief mains would react to such a choice.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Imagine Thieves getting Mace in the Expac lol

Some weapon that could knock-out cold your enemy in silence. Would be interesting to see how thief mains would react to such a choice.A pistol can knock someone out in silence at least once.

[Psientist.6437]

Every assassination target would represent a unique scenario and every weapon type would have pros and cons according the scenario. Assassins could have preferences or even a code of conduct that would make them prefer one weapon type. However in general, I think Canthan assassins would follow the same logic as other classes and use the best weapon for the scenario. The only argument against Canthan assassins ever using pistols would have to be emotional or subjective.

I would love to see what gun magic skills Canthans have come up with. Efficient magical silencers and homing projectiles would be possible. Magic could be used to make the gunshot sound like it came from somewhere else.

[EdwinLi.1284]

Considering the heavy theme of China for Cantha, they may have developed Guns and other forms of gunpowder based weapons for themselves during their time in Isolationism.

Thus the use of Guns for Assassins of Cantha maybe possible. They may even have Rangers that use Guns as their Specialization.

Not to mention what kind of Engineers they may have created due to advancements of technology they have gone into.

We know the Zephyrites have made contact with Cantha and even brought over a lot of random stuff they manage to get their hands on for trading and some of them may have been tech which could be used to contribute to Cantha's development into their own path of technology.

[Psientist.6437]

The Canthan Assassin had two first principles for its design; sequential applications of stabbing and efficient damage mitigation. A thief shield specialty would build on what made the GW1 assassin unique. Perhaps sequential shield skills that build effects? Could any class dual wield shields without looking like a Captain America caricature? Shields could make stealth impossible. That may make it easier to build for powerful and unique shield skills.

[EdwinLi.1284]

@Psientist.6437 said:The Canthan Assassin had two first principles for its design; sequential applications of stabbing and efficient damage mitigation. A thief shield specialty would build on what made the GW1 assassin unique. Perhaps sequential shield skills that build effects? Could any class dual wield shields without looking like a Captain America caricature? Shields could make stealth impossible. That may make it easier to build for powerful and unique shield skills.

Depends on their choice on what may fit Cantha Assassin Elite Specs.

Back in GW1 they mention Assassins having mastery over Hexes as well to both weaken the defense of enemies while also using hexes for providing defense on themselves.

I say the key element of what maybe the focus of Cantha Assassin's weapon during GW2 era due to possible generations of changes over the years to specialize in their arts maybe their Hex spell skills that goes with their deadly attacks if they choose to go down the hex skills route.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Psientist.6437 said:The Canthan Assassin had two first principles for its design; sequential applications of stabbing and efficient damage mitigation. A thief shield specialty would build on what made the GW1 assassin unique. Perhaps sequential shield skills that build effects? Could any class dual wield shields without looking like a Captain America caricature? Shields could make stealth impossible. That may make it easier to build for powerful and unique shield skills.

As much as this may cause eye-rolling from The Greyhawk, given the magical nature of the GW1 assassin's defenses, a focus offhand would probably work better here than a shield, while also being more concealable. It's worth noting, too, that there are a fair few focus designs that look a bit like buckler-sized shields, so someone who wants an authentic swashbuckler look could use one of those.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Psientist.6437 said:The Canthan Assassin had two first principles for its design; sequential applications of stabbing and efficient damage mitigation. A thief shield specialty would build on what made the GW1 assassin unique. Perhaps sequential shield skills that build effects? Could any class dual wield shields without looking like a Captain America caricature? Shields could make stealth impossible. That may make it easier to build for powerful and unique shield skills.

As much as this may cause eye-rolling from The Greyhawk, given the magical nature of the GW1 assassin's defenses, a focus offhand would probably work better here than a shield, while also being more concealable. It's worth noting, too, that there are a fair few focus designs that look a bit like buckler-sized shields, so someone who wants an authentic swashbuckler look could use one of those.

(Sticks tongue out at Drax)

[Yung Reezy.8479]

@Demonhead.7584 said:So the question in the title has been eating away at me for a few years now, and even more so since it was announced we'd be heading to Cantha in EoD. I'm curious to explore this with other Thief/Assassin enthusiasts =)

I was an Assassin player in GW1, and to-date, I've always tried to play my thief as if it were an Assassin as much as possible. I've played it primarily with D/D, and then moved to S/D while I was in WvW, because I enjoyed the idea of porting in and out of combat with Sword 2 (Just like Aura of Displacement in Gw1).

I refrained from using any combination of pistol (despite it being a fairly strong PVE and PVP option) because of the role-play limits I've got on my character -- and that I didn't like that we had infinite ammo coming from front-loaded pistols. After having made HOPE, I became more comfortable using the pistol, but in the end it just didn't feel right. I felt I was betraying the idea of a true-to-form Tyrian Assassin.

To this end, I'm curious to see if other ex-Assassin players would think it reasonable that a Canthan trained Assassin in today's Tyria, would in fact use a pistol in their arsenal.

My thoughts are that for an Assassin (class wise), it'd make sense for them to adopt the pistol as it's a versatile weapon and they would try to get the kill as silently or at least as effectively as possible.

Idk, curious for discussion and thoughts!

(Also for EoD, I think it'd be pretty fun if we got axe/axe or main hand axe, which does aoe dmg and a 300 radius (like a magic-powered Kusarigama)).

I’m with you on the axes. Some kama skins for actual axes would be nice.

[Legion.4198]

In 1571, a ninja sharpshooter attempted to assassinate Oda Nobunaga with with two arquebuses fired in a row. If ninjas used guns in real life, why cant assassins in Guild Wars?

[draxynnic.3719]

@Legion.4198 said:In 1571, a ninja sharpshooter attempted to assassinate Oda Nobunaga with with two arquebuses fired in a row. If ninjas used guns in real life, why cant assassins in Guild Wars?

Because an arquebus would be classed as a rifle in GW2, and therefore the ninja sharpshooter you refer to would be a Deadeye.

[Legion.4198]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Legion.4198 said:In 1571, a ninja sharpshooter attempted to assassinate Oda Nobunaga with with two arquebuses fired in a row. If ninjas used guns in real life, why cant assassins in Guild Wars?

Because an arquebus would be classed as a rifle in GW2, and therefore the ninja sharpshooter you refer to would be a Deadeye.

Of course. I was merely pointing out that real ninjas would gladly used guns, if given half the chance, so did Samurais, Ashigaru, and Sōhei Monks ( Saika Ikki monks being renowned gunsmith) in Japan during Sengoku period (15th and 16th centuries).

As for Elona, I was disappointed to see no examples of undead musketeers among Palawa Joko's armies. But then, again, the Zaishen, particularly Zafirah went around with what it looks like a 20th century bolt action rifle.

[draxynnic.3719]

Mmmn. Of course, any Canthan Assassin-themed elite spec is going to have pistols as long as its based on Thief, and I'd be really surprised if it wasn't. So they'll have them, but they won't be their signature weapon.

Yeah, the lack of guns among Joko's forces was something I noticed as well. I'd guess that if guns had only recently arrived in Elona, the majority of Awakened would have been alive before guns arrived and thus would be more comfortable using the weapons they were used to. Most if not all Awakened also seem to be magically enhanced in one way or another rather than using more 'mundane' attacks, too, so maybe there wasn't much value seen in making the switch from magically enhanced bows.

(It's worth noting that from what we can see ingame the Seraph also seem to prefer bows over rifles, even though rifles are clearly known in Kryta.)

[Legendary Grenth.3561]

Imma say no, the assassins in Cantha are like Celebs, I could see it being a trademark of a couple but not as a ranged weapon, it'd be cool to see it remastered as a melee range weapon with skills like; Pistol Whip(Stun), Sure shot/Headshot(100% Critical + Stun), Unload(volley of six shots) then use daggers as ranged by making throwing skills.

[EdwinLi.1284]

@draxynnic.3719 said:Mmmn. Of course, any Canthan Assassin-themed elite spec is going to have pistols as long as its based on Thief, and I'd be really surprised if it wasn't. So they'll have them, but they won't be their signature weapon.

Yeah, the lack of guns among Joko's forces was something I noticed as well. I'd guess that if guns had only recently arrived in Elona, the majority of Awakened would have been alive before guns arrived and thus would be more comfortable using the weapons they were used to. Most if not all Awakened also seem to be magically enhanced in one way or another rather than using more 'mundane' attacks, too, so maybe there wasn't much value seen in making the switch from magically enhanced bows.

(It's worth noting that from what we can see ingame the Seraph also seem to prefer bows over rifles, even though rifles are clearly known in Kryta.)

It is most likely due to how much technology was allowed to advance.

For Joko, he probably kept technology down to still bows and arrows to prevent creations of technology that may expose him.

Only the Order of Whispers that remained in Elona manage to use guns as shown by how they created the Deadeye Elite Specialization since they did not restrict themselves to Joko's standards on what is allowed.

Cantha on the other hand may have allowed their own technology to advance enough to introduce Guns as a common use but that is assuming the Canthan Emperor allowed it to reach that point.