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Frequent relinkings ruin matchmaking


Riba.3271

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Not balanced at all matchups, and it has been already 3 weeks, NA doesn't look any better

Time to abolish 2 monthly relinking system! Delete linked servers so we can have working population algorithm! Let lower tier servers be less active, still better than being fully dead like right now! Why would guilds and roamers transfer to lower tier for 500 gems when they can go to higher tiers? Go with trickle down policy like true US company!

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Not to mention all the people who have left servers that they can't come back to because those servers are full.

What do you expect them to do? Just quit the game? Because that is what they will and those players include primary commanders and server-managers for their respective servers. A return to a worse system that had to be left because some servers were already dying in 2016 is hardly the way forward. Also, given what we know today it should be obvious to everyone that life on server is far more about content-creators (aka. enablers and instigators with EVE-terminology; such as commanders and server organizers) than actual numbers.

A small server with good organization and commanders do not stay small for long. The only negative impact numbers have is that they can lock servers and maps down, making life harder for those commanders and organizers. The way forward is for some way to encourage and support those content creators. The most important steps in that involves doing away with the locks on servers and maps that stops those players from playing with their friends and using their friends to leverage and help out their effort. Other important steps involve giving them things to do with their friends that may not directly aid their server effort but could indirectly benefit their server effort because it keeps those players happy, active and playing.

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@"subversiontwo.7501" said:Not to mention all the people who have left servers that they can't come back to because those servers are full.

What do you expect them to do? Just quit the game? Because that is what they will and those players include primary commanders and server-managers for their respective servers. A return to a worse system that had to be left because some servers were already dying in 2016 is hardly the way forward. Also, given what we know today it should be obvious to everyone that life on server is far more about content-creators (aka. enablers and instigators with EVE-terminology; such as commanders and server organizers) than actual numbers.

A small server with good organization and commanders do not stay small for long. The only negative impact numbers have is that they can lock servers and maps down, making life harder for those commanders and organizers. The way forward is for some way to encourage and support those content creators. The most important steps in that involves doing away with the locks on servers and maps that stops those players from playing with their friends and using their friends to leverage and help out their effort. Other important steps involve giving them things to do with their friends that may not directly aid their server effort but could indirectly benefit their server effort because it keeps those players happy, active and playing.

Issue with current system is that there are 5 to 8 full servers all the time, old system had maximum 2. And servers were more frequently open. I would say current system is terrible for playing with your friends because your friends are most likely on a permafull main server. Maybe your friends log in once in 3 weeks and they need to get in your server, but it is full. Yes you can go to link but it isn't worth spending money for a game that you only play once in 3 weeks. Wasn't that exactly your problem? Your friends not getting in your server? Less full servers and people transferring around less sounds like better system for staying with your friends....

Currently as people transfer to link servers (because pretty much all reasonable main servers are full), main servers can also fit less people. So you can have amazing server but only be able contain half the people. For example, if every main server lost 2 guilds and 40 people to "before empty" link servers, every main server can now fit 2 guilds and 40 players less before getting full. Which means fun servers with "good organisation and commanders" can't fit many people inside them anymore as the system gets gradually worse and worse.

Overall system where transfer costs are arbitrary, sometimes you get to tier 1 highly populated linking for 500 gems and sometimes servers struggling with numbers are full stuck in tier 5 unlinked, is a pretty bad system. Not to mention mass transfers for 500 gems to leech main servers instead of going to an emptier place.

TLDR;

  • Transfer costs are not consistant from bottom to top
  • More servers are full (your non-hardcore friends are actually more hindered than with the old system)
  • Main servers can fit way less people before getting full as full status cap gets lower as guilds and people transfer to links
  • Matchmaking is a joke with some linkings having 2 full servers and some having 2 medium.
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Not to mention that timezones that servers are active in vary massively every 2 months making the system terrible and confusing for new players. Your server might be completely dead some 2 months and even in best case scenario, if you don't transfer, you have to swap timezones you play in to get action in every 2 months. Like lets say you play WvW for 2 months with amazing commander around same timezone, then he disappears. He was on linking, or he transferred because the relinking wasn't to his taste.

And it isn't just newbies, this affects everyone on every server. Consistant timezones, tiers, guilds and commanders are good for community and wvw

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@LetoII.3782 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:If you take what you have now and delete linked servers, you have exactly the same thing without linked servers.

Not quite the same.If they stopped linking they'd eliminate the payday every 2 months and leave things to chance.Except the "fight guilds" would still transfer to lower tier servers because there is too much blobbing in high tier, then those lower tier servers start winning and the servers they moved from start loosing. And the cycle repeats once they swapped tiers.

Unless you are implying that we should also delete the players in the addition to the servers. No players, nobody transfers.

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You highlight things that were player created. The mismatches are because of transfers and player behavior. You know they ran to RoF and that didn't work cause of all who stacked UW so now they ran to DZ. Like one transfer every 2 months now players are stacking if that fails restacking another spot to try again. Only one way to stop is limit transfers. Could be achieved multiple ways but they don't even care getting no pips for multiple weeks by transferring twice already what 3 weeks in?

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@Jilora.9524 said:You highlight things that were player created. The mismatches are because of transfers and player behavior. You know they ran to RoF and that didn't work cause of all who stacked UW so now they ran to DZ. Like one transfer every 2 months now players are stacking if that fails restacking another spot to try again. Only one way to stop is limit transfers. Could be achieved multiple ways but they don't even care getting no pips for multiple weeks by transferring twice already what 3 weeks in?

If you remove police, world will go crazy. Underlying system allows transferring to higher tiers to populated servers with ton of active commanders for cheap.

The system does absolutely nothing to prevent this kind of cheap stacking. If they had to start from tier 5 (500-1000 gems) and PPT their own way up instead of already going to populated linkings, they wouldn't be leeching and killing existing servers in 1 day. Also the servers they originally left wouldn't have had drastical changes that cause their transferring (being unlinked+full or main server), but it would rather be gradual the ups and downs of the servers.

Overall they made it so with relinkings that transferring in masses is just the only way for a group to have consistant timezones and activity.

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@Threather.9354 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:You highlight things that were player created. The mismatches are because of transfers and player behavior. You know they ran to RoF and that didn't work cause of all who stacked UW so now they ran to DZ. Like one transfer every 2 months now players are stacking if that fails restacking another spot to try again. Only one way to stop is limit transfers. Could be achieved multiple ways but they don't even care getting no pips for multiple weeks by transferring twice already what 3 weeks in?

If you remove police, world will go crazy. Underlying system allows transferring to higher tiers to populated servers with ton of active commanders for cheap.

The system does absolutely nothing to prevent this kind of cheap stacking. If they had to start from tier 5 (500-1000 gems) and PPT their own way up instead of already going to populated linkings, they wouldn't be leeching and killing existing servers in 1 day. Also the servers they originally left wouldn't have had drastical changes that cause their transferring (being unlinked+full or main server), but it would rather be gradual the ups and downs of the servers.

Overall they made it so with relinkings that transferring in masses is just the only way for a group to have consistant timezones and activity.

Yeah transfers is the problem not relinking not what the links start at as all they do is look at 2 months of stats and put the 3 top hours w no link and then try to match up everyone else kinda even in total hours it is undone by players abusing the transfer w no limits. It hasn't been exploited this badly until 8 months ago so they need to do something. Some ideas2 transfers per year per accountinstead of a 7 day CD on transfers make it 3 months so the can only stack every couple relinksprogressive gem increase per transfer 500-800-1100-1400-1700-2000 etc per account to stop the main problem playersNo transfers 1 week before relink to 2 weeks after relinkLimit 20 transfers off/on to a server per week so if 20 leave WSR no one else can till next week to slow the stack down and let system recalculateThings like that any one would slow this down and of course players would complain esp the frequent transfers but they are the problem so let them complain

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@Jilora.9524 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:You highlight things that were player created. The mismatches are because of transfers and player behavior. You know they ran to RoF and that didn't work cause of all who stacked UW so now they ran to DZ. Like one transfer every 2 months now players are stacking if that fails restacking another spot to try again. Only one way to stop is limit transfers. Could be achieved multiple ways but they don't even care getting no pips for multiple weeks by transferring twice already what 3 weeks in?

If you remove police, world will go crazy. Underlying system allows transferring to higher tiers to populated servers with ton of active commanders for cheap.

The system does absolutely nothing to prevent this kind of cheap stacking. If they had to start from tier 5 (500-1000 gems) and PPT their own way up instead of already going to populated linkings, they wouldn't be leeching and killing existing servers in 1 day. Also the servers they originally left wouldn't have had drastical changes that cause their transferring (being unlinked+full or main server), but it would rather be gradual the ups and downs of the servers.

Overall they made it so with relinkings that transferring in masses is just the only way for a group to have consistant timezones and activity.

Yeah transfers is the problem not relinking not what the links start at as all they do is look at 2 months of stats and put the 3 top hours w no link and then try to match up everyone else kinda even in total hours it is undone by players abusing the transfer w no limits. It hasn't been exploited this badly until 8 months ago so they need to do something. Some ideas2 transfers per year per accountinstead of a 7 day CD on transfers make it 3 months so the can only stack every couple relinksprogressive gem increase per transfer 500-800-1100-1400-1700-2000 etc per account to stop the main problem playersNo transfers 1 week before relink to 2 weeks after relinkLimit 20 transfers off/on to a server per week so if 20 leave WSR no one else can till next week to slow the stack down and let system recalculateThings like that any one would slow this down and of course players would complain esp the frequent transfers but they are the problem so let them complain

People will still outnumber enemies, just transfer less frequently. Your system just allows alt abuse while keeping linkings open that should be closed. Lets say you're new player to the game and haven't found "your home server yet", you basically only get 2 shots at it.

But yes, maybe 1st transfer a year should be 500 gems, 2nd transfer 1000 gems, 3rd 1800 gems, etc, it is not a bad idea. Relinkings are definitely part of the problem because people do not want to be on equally populated servers or play against them. Higher tiers just have much better activity and it isn't just guild groups. Thats why it was better when roamers/laggers/smaller guilds could stay on lower tiers and server positions were more constant instead of them being forced to higher tiers every 2 months. WvW just doesn't have pop to sustain all the tiers with desirable activity, thats why artificially forcing every linking to have same population is just a failure. Reason relinking fails is because some people want more activity and some want less. So in most cases the less ones play desert map only and more ones transfer to higher tiers.

Btw forcing people to suffer on a server they do not like is not sustainable as they will just quit the game, it isn't a real life job. One should focus on making WvW more fun and meaningful. Forcing players to do something or stay somewhere is not sustainable.

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@Threather.9354 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:You highlight things that were player created. The mismatches are because of transfers and player behavior. You know they ran to RoF and that didn't work cause of all who stacked UW so now they ran to DZ. Like one transfer every 2 months now players are stacking if that fails restacking another spot to try again. Only one way to stop is limit transfers. Could be achieved multiple ways but they don't even care getting no pips for multiple weeks by transferring twice already what 3 weeks in?

If you remove police, world will go crazy. Underlying system allows transferring to higher tiers to populated servers with ton of active commanders for cheap.

The system does absolutely nothing to prevent this kind of cheap stacking. If they had to start from tier 5 (500-1000 gems) and PPT their own way up instead of already going to populated linkings, they wouldn't be leeching and killing existing servers in 1 day. Also the servers they originally left wouldn't have had drastical changes that cause their transferring (being unlinked+full or main server), but it would rather be gradual the ups and downs of the servers.

Overall they made it so with relinkings that transferring in masses is just the only way for a group to have consistant timezones and activity.

Yeah transfers is the problem not relinking not what the links start at as all they do is look at 2 months of stats and put the 3 top hours w no link and then try to match up everyone else kinda even in total hours it is undone by players abusing the transfer w no limits. It hasn't been exploited this badly until 8 months ago so they need to do something. Some ideas2 transfers per year per accountinstead of a 7 day CD on transfers make it 3 months so the can only stack every couple relinksprogressive gem increase per transfer 500-800-1100-1400-1700-2000 etc per account to stop the main problem playersNo transfers 1 week before relink to 2 weeks after relinkLimit 20 transfers off/on to a server per week so if 20 leave WSR no one else can till next week to slow the stack down and let system recalculateThings like that any one would slow this down and of course players would complain esp the frequent transfers but they are the problem so let them complain

People will still outnumber enemies, just transfer less frequently. Your system just allows alt abuse while keeping linkings open that should be closed. Lets say you're new player to the game and haven't found "your home server yet", you basically only get 2 shots at it.

But yes, maybe 1st transfer a year should be 500 gems, 2nd transfer 1000 gems, 3rd 1800 gems, etc, it is not a bad idea. Relinkings are definitely part of the problem because people do not want to be on equally populated servers
or play against them
. Higher tiers just have much better activity and it isn't just guild groups. Thats why it was better when roamers/laggers/smaller guilds could stay on lower tiers and server positions were more constant instead of them being forced to higher tiers every 2 months. WvW just doesn't have pop to sustain all the tiers with desirable activity, thats why artificially forcing every linking to have same population is just a failure. Reason relinking fails is because some people want more activity and some want less. So in most cases the less ones play desert map only and more ones transfer to higher tiers.

Btw forcing people to suffer on a server they do not like is not sustainable as they will just quit the game, it isn't a real life job. One should focus on making WvW more fun and meaningful. Forcing players to do something or stay somewhere is not sustainable.

It's not forcing it's limiting tranfers. Nwe players get 3 shots year one and 2 every year after if anet chose my 1st option. Some remain unlimited if you don't care about gem amount. Most of us stay on one server. You keep saying higher tiers have more action yes because the same dudes keep transferring up there.Like your T1was full and a med vs a full and a med but the transfers changed that to a full and VH and a full and VH so yeah more action only because of transfers or every tier would be about equal.Then obviously the lowest tier has less cause WSR and JS emptied to jump to a higher tier. All these excuses I want more action I'm a fight guild We got no link I want to play w my friends are to excuse their bandwagon behavior.The obsession thinking a higher tier means your a good players is wrong to. I've been in every tier and it's not much different until all of a sudden 200 dudes go hey lets go here then 200 other dudes see that and go hey lets go there to fight them.You can't fix player behavior unless you make them pay or punish the frequent bandwagoners better then 1 week w/o pips like who cares at rank 5000 anyway.The alt abuse thing to is not anet. It's player behavior and only way to fix that is link transfers to ip address or acc owner but of course player behavior can get by those limitations too.

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Another issue is Anet bases links on the stats they have at relink. They get relinked, then all of a sudden everyone switches servers and throws things off. They should not allow server switching for the first week or two after relinks temporarily and see if that fixes things. I get what they are trying to do but it's not working.

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@"SnowPumpkin.1809" said:Another issue is Anet bases links on the stats they have at relink. They get relinked, then all of a sudden everyone switches servers and throws things off. They should not allow server switching for the first week or two after relinks temporarily and see if that fixes things. I get what they are trying to do but it's not working.One of the reasons we've said that Anet should implement their own damn ideas they said they where going to implement 2 years ago - allow "reserved" transfers week 1-7 (ie a player can select a world to transfer to, but he wont actually transfer yet), lock them down week 8 and then calculate the new links based on the new numbers they will have week 1. First reset people will have transfered to their new world automatically and they will be there the next 2 months. Anet also added a point that they still wanted to allow forced instant transfer... Easy peasy just make it cost 2000 gems period regardless of size of server or something (full would of course still be locked). Guilds have to be pretty dedicated to move mid season then.

Will it work to deter bandwagoners? Who the fuck knows. I dont know how it can get any worse. And they moved at least one step closer to alliances. But given the probably extra little cash they get now from guilds transfering... never gonna happen.

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When was the last link? I think it was like a few weeks ago...

Nevertheless, we all know how volatile are the servers after one of them, there was a word to describe jump to the winning side but I do not remember ( band-something), and how many guild transfer to be in the same spot as before.

If you think about it, the vast majority of the server transfers must happen during the first month after new linkings... I do not know if this is true, I have not seen any data to support this, just speculation.

However, this would support the idea of why this system has been prolonged for so long. After all, Arenanet is a company and does not make a move without thinking about consequences.

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@Threather.9354 said:because your friends are most likely on a permafull main server.

yaaay. have a few months without wvw, because it was dead. Then after another relinking can't play wvw because of permanent queue at my prime time. After anet decreased map limit, queue became a really problem. I can't sit in DR for 3 hours and wait. And can't move to my guildmates, so i must play alone\solo\boring\don't play. In mmo! i can't play with peoples i want.Finally after another server hoppers epidemy, WSR became empty and i can transfer.

Current system must be good in theory - weak servers have a strong allies. But in reality something goes wrong.

Any permanent server its a archaic solution from 10-20 years old limitations. And for pve doesn't matter where you are. it's good and no troubles like in WoW.Yes we can't create 1 super server for wvw\pvp without using channel system. But we can dynamically remove low populated server which really bad at current time. like Docker balancing.

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Butbutbut wait, its soo much fun isnt it?

  • you can gank half-empty servers and pretend you're fight elite
  • you can lemmingtrain empty maps all day and pretend you're the best server
  • you can watch blue defend a red keep from a green siege, just because blue desperately wants to drop from Tier 1 and play some WvW
  • you can build siege at enemy spawn. . . .

We cant just take all this fun away from the kiddoes, feelsbadman :'(

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funnily, on desolation the queues became smaller with each month. we had 70-80 queues like 2 years ago. last relink we had only a 2 ppl queue, and later a 20 ppl queue, which is absurdly few for a relink. we somehow have ppl filling the maps by just afking on alt accounts...

i would switch server myself, but most aren't attractive. i rather learnt to somehow hate most servers, so i'd never swap to them.

the nomad server WSR exists basically half of the time on other servers that they stack onto and bandwagon for content. guilds hop around all the time, tho not many serious battle guilds even exist anymore.

@Hannelore.8153 two months is far too short if u have a good link. far too long if unlinked.you can just delete everything if u relink every week. would be a absurd mess.


i also only see Alliances as the last chance to fix something. change is needed, the current system is just horrific. it cannot get worse.

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@"Hannelore.8153" said:Two months isn't frequent. If anything relinks should happen every matchup. If you've ever been stuck in a stale or unbalanced linkup you'd realise just how terrible it is to wait two whole months just for it to get "fixed".

  1. First 3 weeks are scrapshoot when everyone transfers around and servers settle to their tiers
  2. Then you need to find timezone that your server/tier has desirable activity in
  3. Start over after 2-3 weeks of settled WvW

Overall I really dislike "Hey, this linking might be terrible but man at least it only lasts 2 months and we might get lucky after 2 months" mentality... Please guys, you deserve better system than that. Why have terrible 2 months just followed by lot of enemy server people having terrible 2 months? Do you have no empathy, especially for newer players that have absolutely no clue why your timezones had a do over?

Reducing tiers was already enough to fix the activity on lower tiers. Now you just need to give them also transfer cost advantage. With 1-up-1-down it only takes 2 weeks for server to arise from depths anyways, there will be plenty of guilds and server communities doing their mini projects to climb from lower tiers even if we go back to old system with only 4 or 5 tiers. Yes it will be bandvagoning but at least they'll have to PPT and wont outnumber enemies with 2 full servers combined.

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