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What really makes WvW stale for you?


grave of hearts.7830

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Oh i should had added music too,when i am in an action mode i expect to hear some epic music.Yet all i hear is the same depressed soundtrack style jeremy soule had 10 years ago,cripes is it that hard to make an epic version of the gw2 theme and make it the combat theme or something else to help wake up the player?The remnant of a hero battle music was great,why we dont have that kind of stuff in wvw?

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LONG POST INC.

I am a very easily entertained and go with the flow kind of person. There are criticisms I have about WvW, and complaints others have that I either agree with or can relate to. In general however, I enjoy WvW for what it is, and playing with friends or a community have a bigger impact on that feeling than WvW itself.

What makes WvW stale for me isn't WvW, but the players.


  • Guilds that play 70/30 Support/DPS, farm pugs and are nigh untouchable by
  • Players that roam in groups of 5 - 10+ that have no respect for people playing alone
  • People with no creativity of their own that only play what's best in a mode (WvW) that it hardly matters
  • Players that sit in objectives 24/7 constantly manning siege waiting for someone to pass by so they can shoot them
  • People who make it their business to put Commanders down until they detag because they don't agree with how they lead

Everyone is entitled to play as they like, don't mistake this for a "I don't agree with what they do so it's wrong" kind of thing.

I find guilds that play heavy support to be boring and frustrating because they are near untouchable by pugs yet they put themselves in the way of said pugs. Players are forced to deal with this guild (and many play this way) but have no chance of stopping it and it just becomes a circle jerk of how many kills they can farm.On the flipside, I can respect a group that's co-ordinated enough that pugs can't pick them apart, and I think it's a good thing if a guild is needed to take down a guild. The problem arises when a guild stacks supports because support builds are so bloated that they can just facetank everything and it stops being about co-ordination so much as it is that the pugs have none.

Roaming and small scale has become significantly more punishing over the years for a variety of reasons. At least on NA, very, very few "true" solo roamers still exist, and many of the ones that do are forced to play one of two things; Thief or Ranger.Groups that roam in larger numbers and don't actually do anything other than lurk in high traffic areas or body singles are a huge part of why roaming sucks. It's hard enough to get anything done when you're alone, then you add a group to the problem that will throw a single player at you to keep you in combat or force some cooldowns before the cavalry shows up and it just becomes lame.The only players that will provide actual fights are all in a group, so you can't have a good 1v1/X and instead get harassed by numbers you can in no way handle. Outside of having a good fight, there's nothing else you can reliably do because of Mounts and Tactics.

There are so many possibilities with builds in this game and yet 90% of the playerbase has 0 creativity. It's the same 3 - 5 things over and over again that only changes when the meta changes.Playing things that are good is one thing- it's reasonable to want to use something that's effective if you're playing outside of a zerg- but I'll never understand why people can't at least make builds their own or make something entirely unique. It is so boring to fight clones all day.

This is a huge one for me.As I'd already said, playing alone is hard enough as it is. Mounts and Tactics force you to get things done fast or you'll be overwhelmed (zerged). Then you have players like this that literally refuse to fight beyond the border of their objective but will happily sit inside it shooting you with what ever siege reaches and will summon the zerg when you head for a camp.If you get spotted by even one person when passing an objective you can bet money they're waiting until you're outnumbered or your back is turned before they try to fight you.I get it, not everyone is confident in their fighting ability, and some people care about playing the PPT game. But what exactly is the purpose of shooting people at Sentry's with a Ballista or Cannon?

And lastly, bullies. Commanders are few and far between as it is. Less and less people are willing to do it because like roaming, it has become less and less rewarding/fun and more frustrating. Veterans continue to die out and fewer and fewer players stick around long enough to reach that status with enough knowledge to command themselves. Then you add people who criticize Commanders over their every move and backseat so much you'd think they'd command themselves, but when offered the option they refuse.Telling a Commander what they're doing wrong if they're newer is fine if you know what you're talking about, but the delivery matters. There is no reason to be telling people to uninstall because their zerg wiped or to be generally unpleasant because you don't agree with their decisions.Be supportive of the Commanders you enjoy and don't follow the ones you don't. Often people will get the hint if no one is following and that should be plenty enough wound for them to lick without someone(s) putting them down to worsen the matter.

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@grave of hearts.7830 said:Oh i should had added music too,when i am in an action mode i expect to hear some epic music.Yet all i hear is the same depressed soundtrack style jeremy soule had 10 years ago,cripes is it that hard to make an epic version of the gw2 theme and make it the combat theme or something else to help wake up the player?The remnant of a hero battle music was great,why we dont have that kind of stuff in wvw?

Interesting. The first thing I do in any game I play is to turn off the music entirely. Different strokes, I guess.

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it's a bit of everything. couldn't pick #3 bc i totally disagree, i hated like 70% of all made balance changes.

i picked #1 bc EotM playable would be kinda dream, and desert border needs a rework, preferably making the terrain more even as well as just making it notably smaller - so u actually can reach things faster than your enemies can - would do the trick yet. (that to be said, every single map has big space with pretty much unused terrain that contains nothing outside of random NPCs)outside of that @"grave of hearts.7830" , i disagree that u mention "blobs" there. a blob is the ideal composition. more often u find a zerg + cloud of blobsize only. like, if one real "blob" is on the map, all the horrific roamergankers have no space on the map anymore. no more 5 people on no-risk glasscannon builds waiting at three different camps for lonely roamers to gank them. maybe try to phrase this kinda "pick an option" choices more open and neutral next time.

i think #3 has this really extremly important point of "quality of life" changes. if u want people to stick around, that'd be a staple. we get rather nothing there tho. no workovers of outdated stuff, only random class changes for "uwu balance patch of classes yes-yes, nerf everything only not me or i cry-curse very loud"

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Roamer Perspective :Build options to roam effectively just too suffocating.

Meta Power builds aim to do as much damage as possible as fast as possible, and rely on the build's innate sustain and durability to survive.Meta Condi builds aim to survive as long as possible, keep slapping them Condis on until the target dies.

Anything else has to rely heavily on the player's skill and ability to fight.

Dumb cheese "Summons" builds which should have never worked in the past is starting to become dominant and a roaming norm.

  • Thieves running Thieves Guild onto everything, and actually winning fights.
  • MM Scourges just flooding in with a whole load of Minions.
  • Core Eles with double Elementals.
  • Scrapper with Supply Drop and Turret spam + Flamethrower.

^ These builds disgust me the most, because they are so easy to play, and rely on just dropping a ton of bodies + automated damage to win, but when they face any of actually meta faceroll builds, they just crumble and die.

But somehow these are effective enough to beat anything which isn't meta built, and usually with extreme ease.

Gonna avoid talking about thieves, their dumb ini mechanic and stealth is another sort of discussion, but D/P Thieves, Grieving Deadeyes, Power Deadeyes, Thieves roaming in groups and just bullying people all contribute to a slowly suffocating roaming experience.

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@"Yasai.3549" i'd just wish the summons would not have the same optics as the player. this still annoys me at rangers - their pet attacks u from like 1800 range away from them, and can just pass walls/closed gates and even has its own dot on the map / looks like a player iconwise.

all the damage nerfs kinda made some builds available, but destroyed a lot of other builds. overall the "balance patches" probably caused even less options to use and encouraged a more stale gameplay.

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@"Yasai.3549" said:Roamer Perspective :Build options to roam effectively just too suffocating.

Meta Power builds aim to do as much damage as possible as fast as possible, and rely on the build's innate sustain and durability to survive.Meta Condi builds aim to survive as long as possible, keep slapping them Condis on until the target dies.

Anything else has to rely heavily on the player's skill and ability to fight.

Dumb cheese "Summons" builds which should have never worked in the past is starting to become dominant and a roaming norm.

  • Thieves running Thieves Guild onto everything, and actually winning fights.
  • MM Scourges just flooding in with a whole load of Minions.
  • Core Eles with double Elementals.
  • Scrapper with Supply Drop and Turret spam + Flamethrower.

^ These builds disgust me the most, because they are so easy to play, and rely on just dropping a ton of bodies + automated damage to win, but when they face any of actually meta faceroll builds, they just crumble and die.

But somehow these are effective enough to beat anything which isn't meta built, and usually with extreme ease.

Gonna avoid talking about thieves, their dumb ini mechanic and stealth is another sort of discussion, but D/P Thieves, Grieving Deadeyes, Power Deadeyes, Thieves roaming in groups and just bullying people all contribute to a slowly suffocating roaming experience.

The MM trend also follows on Reaper and can be as frustrating tbh.Also you gotta account for the smallscale Condi Heralds being the bane of melee classes. Although a bit more skilled is required to play this, it's still 'spammy'.And I would also put Core Necro tanks on the list. Click 3 skills enter shroud to never leave it again and spam 1. You may go Lich Form and spam 1 tho.

Anything else I would say is viable and has counters. But given that everyone and their mother go for easy kills and form this 'meta' the stupid you who wants to play a creative all-rounder build, needs to tryhard and have a skill level of 1000 to battle any enemy, having no fun in the process.

I was surprised to have an extremely fun solo fight with a Grenade Holo in my core warrior which made me realize how stale WvW currently is for roamers even more...

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@Shroud.2307 said:What makes WvW stale for me isn't WvW, but the players.


  • Guilds that play 70/30 Support/DPS, farm pugs and are nigh untouchable by
  • Players that roam in groups of 5 - 10+ that have no respect for people playing alone
  • People with no creativity of their own that only play what's best in a mode (WvW) that it hardly matters
  • Players that sit in objectives 24/7 constantly manning siege waiting for someone to pass by so they can shoot them
  • People who make it their business to put Commanders down until they detag because they don't agree with how they lead

yesyesidk, balancing issue and prone to happenyes, or with golems in campyes

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Bad fights. Boonball groups. Deadeyes. Immob spam. Minstrel stats.

Honestly alliances aren't too huge of a deal to me and there's part of me that'll be really sad to see that day come because I like playing with so many of my servermates who are all mostly in different guilds. But hey, if it leads to better fights, I'd be happy. I do care about balance, but as long as I can play a build that I enjoy that I don't feel is 100% dogkitten, I am generally happy.

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I wish I could vote for all of the above but ultimately for me I chose the maps, Simply because the older maps are small and predictable, It's just the same thing over and over. At least Red boarder there's a lot of verticality to play with and open space for large fights. The Maps could be so much better than they are, I'm sure it'd need some balancing but why not add in some Underground tunnels, Underwater areas, Gliding Updrafts, Tactic Leylines, Medizookas ect...

All that said though, another huge factor is gameplay, With how little balance changes there is the Meta stays the same and problematic things don't get looked at for months at a time, the same goes for underused/weak skills that could offer more variety.

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what really suprises me is that anyone chooses the "builds" option. this is really the last thing i could ever care about, since most people don't even use a real build. easily half, rather 80% of the most maps' capacities are completely randomly geared people.

for example, i always facepalm in front of the screen when i see the weavers going into 600 range and just exploding seconds later. idk what they try to do there, but running the class with crazy dmg-avoid and brutal range dps like that is just pretty weird, yet pretty common apparently.

or overall, if u have 25-30 cloudy people rather pew pewing alone into a 20ish people group and therefore getting slow but steady farmed by them, instead of forming a group themselves and ramming them down in one push, is just my real issue. it's not fun to fight with that kinda people. everyhing takes about 5 times as long as it'd need to take, if not even longer.

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