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How can people enjoy WvW?


Lenti.3189

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@"Lenti.3189" said:ive been playing GW2 since may this year, and so far i have over 1500 hours of pve and some pvp

but recently ive been forced to play wvw for gift of battle, and to my surprise, its horribleby far my worst experience in GW2, and aside from the massive chaos that you get as a new wvw player, the mode is just depressingi was expecting to be able to jump from camp to camp to get some action, like in drizzle, but no, you have to walki was expecting to see players on the map to know where the action is, but no, i have no idea where everybody is, people dont talk, and NO ONE is ever answering anythingi was expecting to fight some players for camps and so on, but no, we form a group, we capture a camp while the other team is waiting close by and they retake it seconds lateri was expecting to see some commanders, but no, it took me a long and painful 1 week to get that gift of battle and ive only seen a commander ONCE

i know wvw is not for everyone and especially for me, but my god its horrible, i would never recommend this to anyone unless i want them to quit the game

how can people even enjoy this?

like this

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120690/all-i-want-for-xmas-is-to-pull-you-of-a-cliff-vid-wvw-fun-times#latest

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@"Lenti.3189" said:ive been playing GW2 since may this year, and so far i have over 1500 hours of pve and some pvp

but recently ive been forced to play wvw for gift of battle, and to my surprise, its horribleby far my worst experience in GW2, and aside from the massive chaos that you get as a new wvw player, the mode is just depressingi was expecting to be able to jump from camp to camp to get some action, like in drizzle, but no, you have to walki was expecting to see players on the map to know where the action is, but no, i have no idea where everybody is, people dont talk, and NO ONE is ever answering anythingi was expecting to fight some players for camps and so on, but no, we form a group, we capture a camp while the other team is waiting close by and they retake it seconds lateri was expecting to see some commanders, but no, it took me a long and painful 1 week to get that gift of battle and ive only seen a commander ONCE

i know wvw is not for everyone and especially for me, but my god its horrible, i would never recommend this to anyone unless i want them to quit the game

how can people even enjoy this?

i started gw2 in march 2013. like you, after some extensive PvE i tried WvW.back the it was a blast. commanders everywhere, big fights everywhere. massive siege. dozen of 1v1 groups forming on some corner of the map, guild wars over the control of the WvW jumping puzzle (obsidian sanctuary.), no warclaw, no glider (tho i like the glider for WvW!!!) and the game balance was more simple.chat was always animated by guild recruiting and players insulting each other. it was easy to find a little group to follow as there was alot of enemy groups and not just one mono blob.there was even players who's goal was only to scout, escort dolyak and maintain siege weapons for defence.afterwards we had the lovely obsidian sanctuary arena attracting alot of duelist and EOTM, a superb narrow map in the sky with tons of XP trains and wall of fear necro :smile:

now years after and some few updates you get ghost chat, mono blob just capturing stuff, no roaming, no duelist, ghost obsidian sanctuary, ghost EOTM, new desert map simulating a real desert, warclaws running everywhere, alot less fighting guilds and alot more PvE players forgeting that WvW is a PvP map.this happened because players got bored of playing the same thing over and over without any incentive to win. WvW never got the rework it needed to keep it fresh and after each updates blob play become stronger and stronger.

WvW is now in the "missed opportunity" box right next to sPvP, dungeons and GvG.

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@Lenti.3189 said:ive been playing GW2 since may this year, and so far i have over 1500 hours of pve and some pvp

but recently ive been forced to play wvw for gift of battle, and to my surprise, its horribleby far my worst experience in GW2, and aside from the massive chaos that you get as a new wvw player, the mode is just depressingi was expecting to be able to jump from camp to camp to get some action, like in drizzle, but no, you have to walki was expecting to see players on the map to know where the action is, but no, i have no idea where everybody is, people dont talk, and NO ONE is ever answering anythingi was expecting to fight some players for camps and so on, but no, we form a group, we capture a camp while the other team is waiting close by and they retake it seconds lateri was expecting to see some commanders, but no, it took me a long and painful 1 week to get that gift of battle and ive only seen a commander ONCE

i know wvw is not for everyone and especially for me, but my god its horrible, i would never recommend this to anyone unless i want them to quit the game

how can people even enjoy this?

  1. You played during wrong play hours for your server - every server has a prime time where the most action is, and typically, you would see one to multiple commanders during these times, at least in EU. Join you server's discord/ts you will find a tag there much easier. Ask in map chat about these datas. Don't worry you don't need to talk.
  2. You didn't join a zerg. Any wvw beginner should start the game with a zerg. Zergs were always the main attraction to WvW, everything thing else is for more specific people.
  3. You didn't bother asking where to find commanders. You can ask these questions in any large pve city too if WvW is dead during your play time. Who know you might even get a guild invite, then things will get a lot easier. If you are on a dead server or serverlink, then you need to transfer to a more active one. The higher the tier of your server is, the more active it is. Check what server you are on.
  4. flipping camps is less about having fights like in spvp, but more about getting supplies to siege objectives. The larger the objectives, and the higher the tier of an objectives is, the more players will come to defend it . Players are limited per map to something around 60-65 players. So you can't expect to see enemies everywhere, therefore, people prioritize certain objectives. This is especially true during off time where there is a lack of players to defend objectives.

Not blaming you though, this mode is not very beginner friendly. But it never hurts to ask around for more information. I recommend watching some videos from commanders, like bezainaz in twitch (not intended ad), then you might understand why people play it.

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WvW is considered one of the endgame contents. Difficulty wise it is close to T4 fractals or raids, may be harder or easier depend on the skill of your allies and your foes. Of course it would suck if you hop straight into something like T4 fractals or raids not knowing the mechanics or your build not optimized accordingly.

I suggest you to start in EBG and do the WvW dailies to save some reward track potions, so that next time you need to grind another Gift of Battle, save your time by just consuming all the potions to complete it.(it takes 80 potions to fully fill an empty bar)

Also, it's not likely that your team side EBG objectives are being captured by the other teams and remain that way 24/7, so you can escort the dolyaks running from camps to the keep to slowly grind your participation level to tier 6. Once you're in tier 6, use some experience boosters to increase your reward track gain to speed it up. Always find things to do to keep your reward track ticking in tier 6. Get in guild hall and get that guild buff. Get an ascended amulet and insert a WvW reward track enrichment, buy that enrichment from WvW laurel merchant. See some tag up when you're escorting some dolyak? Follow the tag. If you're so lucky that it happen to be a good commander, you will learn a lot. Join the tag, hop in their voice comms, try to be part of something bigger. I suggest you go with support builds as they are usually much better in sustain. In WvW, you want to be the last one standing.

But there's one thing, if your team side EBG objectives are captured by other teams 24/7, it's best you move to the other servers.

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@Lenti.3189 said:ive been playing GW2 since may this year, and so far i have over 1500 hours of pve and some pvp

but recently ive been forced to play wvw for gift of battle, and to my surprise, its horribleby far my worst experience in GW2, and aside from the massive chaos that you get as a new wvw player, the mode is just depressingi was expecting to be able to jump from camp to camp to get some action, like in drizzle, but no, you have to walki was expecting to see players on the map to know where the action is, but no, i have no idea where everybody is, people dont talk, and NO ONE is ever answering anythingi was expecting to fight some players for camps and so on, but no, we form a group, we capture a camp while the other team is waiting close by and they retake it seconds lateri was expecting to see some commanders, but no, it took me a long and painful 1 week to get that gift of battle and ive only seen a commander ONCE

i know wvw is not for everyone and especially for me, but my god its horrible, i would never recommend this to anyone unless i want them to quit the game

how can people even enjoy this?

later u can get one of the useless gifts of battle per every 2-3 hours thaha. people expect u to inform yourself first before entering i guess. read for example gw2mists.com

commanders aka Tags are up now and then, announced on discord usually. sometimes announce it one time in team chat. without channel tags active you'll not get whats going on at all anyways.

if just... most don't walk but use the warclaw. if walk, use speedy skills. every class has some. without swiftness/mobility skills, it's sneezing ofc.

not everyone wants to fight. groups are known to gank each other at camps, some maybe just wait bc they fear u have 3 thieves camping nearby, waiting for a cheap gank.

people who play only for points are called "ppt'ers" and will in most cases avoid fights, unless they are at least 3:1 more than you.

overall u just need a bit of experience. we cannot know where u play. might be a dead server, a recently abandoned one, or just a bad timezone for your server.

ah, and don't compare it with drizzlewood. drizzle gets u randomly flooded with loot for a rather small need of action for that, weak foes compared to Wvw (if u fight in a zerg VS zerg at least), a linear objective taking compared to Wvw, no need of much real structure.

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Lenti.3189 said:how can people even enjoy this?

Its the same thing as asking WvW players how to enjoy PvE

also: this. i play almost every day for some hours, and i 99% play Wvw.

for me it's large scale fights. i like to collect bags and upgraded my chars' gear to maxed out ascended exclusively by Wvw.

the thing is, most new people get barely a chance to experience Wvw really. the distribution of players and guilds is so horrifically bad... new players likely at best get farmed by some 5 man glasscannons before they can even reach their maptags.

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@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:not everyone wants to fight. groups are known to gank each other at camps, some maybe just wait bc they fear u have 3 thieves camping nearby, waiting for a cheap gank.

people who play only for points are called "ppt'ers" and will in most cases avoid fights, unless they are at least 3:1 more than you.First you explain a little of the nuance why people wont always engage when they know they're about to be outnumbered 1v3 and then you follow it up by drawing a wide brush over everyone that doesnt engage as being PPTers that need 3v1.

Not seeing the irony I guess.

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The reason question is why do people torture themselves making legendaries? How is that fun for a skin that isn't even always better than the ones on the gem store?

We play WvW because it's more or less open world with occasional player vs player conflict, and each player that comes in can fill in a niche that they decide on their own. If they decide to contribute (I suppose that's a big if) No other area of the game is like that. In PvE, there's about 5 viable stats (berserker, viper, diviner, harrier, and maybe minstrel), and for 90% of content, it's really just 1 stat... berserker. The rest are useless, but here many more stat combos have a lot of use.

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@Dawdler.8521 cannot help u to understand what i wrote i guess. that was just to explain the new player posting why some people avoid fights always if possible. it's not connected to any group size, that's just ppt trading basically or stoic pacificsm.

also with groups i mean everything smallscale so up to 10 players basically.

there was absolutely no irony in that post, you're just seeing things. 6 ppl gank 2 pp 10 gank 4 etc etc ... sth around this is mostly happening. i killed today accidently 4 apparently new players on their thieves and mesmers, who just walked into my scrouge wellbomb... that was a gank that failed big time for example. but that wasn't even a real fight for me, despite beeing in a 5v1.

shows how absurdly crazy the difference can be at times. at a smiliar skill level, u have not much chance with a scrouge in anything over 1v1 (since the zergset is made to wipe big playercounts, not doing spvp)

i also never duel. i do 1v1 rather than running, if running has likely no chance to succeed. but why would i 1v1 some guy on his obvious gankerbuild? and vice versa, why would i run kinda gankerbuild myself, when i mostly have to fight overnumbers. the rough 3v1 is just the standard size on which battlewise weaker groups tend to attack stronger servers, and below u won't see much offensemode from them. most servers have single guilds that overperform the server standard, many have barely any tho.

@"ArchonWing.9480" yeah, good question lol. especially since ascended has the same stats; and at least i do not swap my builds that often (and even if i change build, often not weapon since many are kinda "staple" for that character)

further, there's a ton of good looking skins by now. the black lion claim ticket weapons for example also provide u shiny skins for your ascended gear.

and yeah, i think we mainly play Wvw bc it's just fun and dynamic. no play day is ever really the same. surely, it's annoying when ur realizing that many people just run random things or just slack or do other newbie mistakes, but till u realize that yourself, you've probably done that kinda stuff a billion times as well.

when i learnt groupplay, it was as if i discovered the mode itself again in a new and deeper way. a way u cannot understand possibly as new player, and even not as pug/roamer/smallscale player. some people played years without getting it really i feel.(the problem is: with most insight into the good things and chances, u also realize twice as big what's broken, outdated, limiting, buggy and how small work gets put into fixing these issues)

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@Lenti.3189 said:ive been playing GW2 since may this year, and so far i have over 1500 hours of pve and some pvpOK, how I see you a beginner. So may be at firt you nee more play? try other game modes, get some experience?

but recently ive been forced to play wvw for gift of battle, and to my surprise, its horriblehorrible can be if you need 250 gifts of battle for one item. one gift - just do one two dayles per day, and forget about wvw if you not like it.

by far my worst experience in GW2, and aside from the massive chaos that you get as a new wvw player, the mode is just depressingsome popel like chaos. It is individual state.

i was expecting to be able to jump from camp to camp to get some action, like in drizzle, but no, you have to walkyou expectation was wrong. it is ok.

i was expecting to see some commanders, but no, it took me a long and painful 1 week to get that gift of battle and ive only seen a commander ONCEmost all good commanders use hidden tag. You in wvw guild ? no ? so yes, you expectation was wrong again.

i know wvw is not for everyone and especially for me, but my god its horrible,as any pvp mode is should be horrible for beginners. it is ok.

how can people even enjoy this?at first - don't make some expectation before join. After some time, half year, 5 years, or week, if you like it - find wvw giuld.

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@Chaba.5410 said:

@Lenti.3189 said:it took me a long and painful 1 week to get that gift of battle

That's kind of the normal amount of time to get through a reward track though if you don't have a stack of potions from dailies or boosters.

acutally no. with higher rank and using boosters, aand on a fighting oriented server it goes way faster. in good matchups u can get 2 tracks done per day quite fine, these are sadly rare lately i gotta admit. Wvw needs more fighting guilds in the end.

like, if i only non-group pug for only some hours a day in a pretty bad matchup (= not much even ground groupfight content) it still takes only 3 days for a track as a gold rank (and without boosters, since they're wasted outside of group play)

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that's not how it works, but you need a core of meta players that don't slack. which is where the problem starts. blobs aren't hard to wipe, but they become hard to wipe if u only get rangers, thieves and any class that is wrong speced, equiped, skilled and played.

u realize ignoring the meta and rather playing random stuff or spvp sets is seen as "more fun" by far too many players, that is why numbers count more. ofc, if everyone play nuts glass cannons, yes then numbers count 1:1.

for example, my servers population is also very casual by now, we still have the core of players that is able to wipe groups of +20 ppl regularly. been able to use all the tricks a good meta squads has access to, you can wipe even 50 players with 20-25, or more if they spread out too much.

if number win, it's your group compositions fault, or the others just have some elite players within their ranks. fast reactions and a good commander can do much to win battles.

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@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@Lenti.3189 said:it took me a long and painful 1 week to get that gift of battle

That's kind of the normal amount of time to get through a reward track though if you don't have a stack of potions from dailies or boosters.

acutally no. with higher rank and using boosters, aand on a fighting oriented server it goes way faster. in good matchups u can get 2 tracks done per day quite fine, these are sadly rare lately i gotta admit. Wvw needs more fighting guilds in the end.

like, if i only non-group pug for only some hours a day in a pretty bad matchup (= not much even ground groupfight content) it still takes only 3 days for a track as a gold rank (and without boosters, since they're wasted outside of group play)

The OP doesn't have higher rank (he told us he's new) and it would be silly of me to assume he's spending all his time in WvW during a day and knows how to speed the process up.

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I only WvW in EBG and I really only go there to kill people. I don't really care who owns what, as long as there are other players to fight. So in that regard, I treat it more like a deathmatch where the primary objective is to kill the other players. It's what I prefer to do in these mmo's. I also like the way that once I get into EBG, I don't have to sit in a queue again for the rest of time I'm playing. I actually haven't even stepped foot in arena PvP in over 3 years due to the queues and the lack of a deathmatch option.

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  • 2 years later...

Its okay not to like a game mode. Everyone seems to forget this simple truth. I don't see the appeal in wvw and only here because I am weary of hearing left right and center about how great wvw is and I simply don't see it at all. The maps are lack luster, the structures look like kitten, the zergs have a scrubbing bubbles commercial aesthetic that also induces lag spikes, the sheer amount of time one wastes just traversing the map with so little engagement adds to the sense of boredom unlike pve where theres always something to engage with that isn't some lopsided group there just to send you back where you came from.

I've learned enough getting my warclaw to know wvw is not for everyone's taste including mine. Someone once said spend 1500 hours in wvw in order to find out where the fun is. It would be like me to accuse MMORPG players of not playing long enough in FPS games to truly grasp why they're fun in my eyes. It shouldn't take 1500 hours to figure out if you hate a mode or like it period.

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32 minutes ago, Lunarwolf.5698 said:

Its okay not to like a game mode. Everyone seems to forget this simple truth. I don't see the appeal in wvw and only here because I am weary of hearing left right and center about how great wvw is and I simply don't see it at all. The maps are lack luster, the structures look like kitten, the zergs have a scrubbing bubbles commercial aesthetic that also induces lag spikes, the sheer amount of time one wastes just traversing the map with so little engagement adds to the sense of boredom unlike pve where theres always something to engage with that isn't some lopsided group there just to send you back where you came from.

I've learned enough getting my warclaw to know wvw is not for everyone's taste including mine. Someone once said spend 1500 hours in wvw in order to find out where the fun is. It would be like me to accuse MMORPG players of not playing long enough in FPS games to truly grasp why they're fun in my eyes. It shouldn't take 1500 hours to figure out if you hate a mode or like it period.

Yep.  Personally, wvw is my preferred game mode.  The concept was taken from Dark Age of Camelot (at least for GW2 ).  That said, it really isn't for everyone.  Not everyone likes other aspects of the game.  Sometimes it depends on where people are in life too.  Try something a bunch, realize they don't like it.  Than, try it again 10 years later to discover that they do enjoy the content.  It is what it is.

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1 hour ago, Lunarwolf.5698 said:

Its okay not to like a game mode. Everyone seems to forget this simple truth. I don't see the appeal in wvw and only here because I am weary of hearing left right and center about how great wvw is and I simply don't see it at all. The maps are lack luster, the structures look like kitten, the zergs have a scrubbing bubbles commercial aesthetic that also induces lag spikes, the sheer amount of time one wastes just traversing the map with so little engagement adds to the sense of boredom unlike pve where theres always something to engage with that isn't some lopsided group there just to send you back where you came from.

I've learned enough getting my warclaw to know wvw is not for everyone's taste including mine. Someone once said spend 1500 hours in wvw in order to find out where the fun is. It would be like me to accuse MMORPG players of not playing long enough in FPS games to truly grasp why they're fun in my eyes. It shouldn't take 1500 hours to figure out if you hate a mode or like it period.

It is absolutely fine to not like certain playstyles or game modes. 

Personally, after playing a lot of WvW, I find OW just dull. I can't find anything comparable to the rush of playing against real people, not scripted events always the same.

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1 hour ago, Lunarwolf.5698 said:

Its okay not to like a game mode. Everyone seems to forget this simple truth. I don't see the appeal in wvw and only here because I am weary of hearing left right and center about how great wvw is and I simply don't see it at all. The maps are lack luster, the structures look like kitten, the zergs have a scrubbing bubbles commercial aesthetic that also induces lag spikes, the sheer amount of time one wastes just traversing the map with so little engagement adds to the sense of boredom unlike pve where theres always something to engage with that isn't some lopsided group there just to send you back where you came from.

I've learned enough getting my warclaw to know wvw is not for everyone's taste including mine. Someone once said spend 1500 hours in wvw in order to find out where the fun is. It would be like me to accuse MMORPG players of not playing long enough in FPS games to truly grasp why they're fun in my eyes. It shouldn't take 1500 hours to figure out if you hate a mode or like it period.

It doesn't take 1500 hours to figure out wvw, whomever produced that statement is a blathering idiot.

If you like any form of pvp, from solo ganking all the way to organized 50 person groups, wvw is for you.

If you like gw2 combat system, wvw is for you.

If you like realm vs realm game play, wvw is for you.

There's everything from niche roles to meta roles in wvw, and a place for practically every play style, from pull trolls to waypoint tappers, from meta strippers to meta supporters, from scouts to zerglings, from builders to defenders, from ppt zombies to ppk zombies, from commanders to yak runners. All of which you could experience in an hour.

If you don't like any form of pvp, wvw is not for you, it doesn't take 1500 hours to figure that out.

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On 12/20/2020 at 11:28 PM, Westenev.5289 said:

I mean, in my first 10 hours of PvE, I was exploring the shiverpeaks mining for silver. Was I playing the game wrong? yes, but at least I was having fun.

In WvW, most players first 10 hours probably consist of getting run over by zergs, encountering cheese pvp builds, general confusion of where the commander is doing, PvD, and dying to tier 1 camps. It creates a situation so toxic that players often feel they don't want to come back.

Did you "Talk" to the guide upon entering the WvW borderland?

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