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Please rid us of Rytlock and Ryland by the end of this season!


Ashantara.8731

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@WindBlade.8749 said:

@vier.1327 said:Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

Turlock rocks.

so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

What a toxic comment.

Just a point of view as valid as yours.

I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

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I agree with this sentiment a little too much. Rytlock has been the “mystery box” in almost every step of the story, and one of the key players in the ones where he’s not. Give some of the other characters time to shine; there are plenty of other great ones that always get shouldered out in favor of more Rytlock. There is currently absolutely no reason that he should be a driving force into and of the Cantha story.

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I loved Rytlock. Until he got all whiney about Ryland. Seeing Ryland die and Rytlock going back to his cynical self would be much appreciated. I would also like to see more of Kasmeer AND Marjory. There can not be enough Canach. I am glad Rox is gone and if Braham disappears to sit at Taimi's death bed, I would not be too sorry. Despite all the laughs I got out of Taimi.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Essentially Rytlock is the wildcard being how powerful he is versus other Charr and if you remove him from the equation it begins to be basically humans against Charr again with a Norn and Asura in tow. Although it is an interesting outcome what eventually happens because no one expected what happened so the next bit of the story will probably be even more interesting.

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If all characters that I dislike got killed off, the story would become a flat, boring clichéYou're suppose to like some more than others.I happen to like Rytlock, and have a dislike towards Braham. What a whiner. But kill him off, take away that part of dislike... I'd be missing something.I loved Eir. hated the part where she got eliminated. But... It was great for the story... I felt the loss.

If you don't feel anything about the characters, it just becomes too boring.

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@"Gryphon.2875" said:Bring back Tybalt from the Mists to replace R&R. Only tolerable Charr character.I have three words for you: "horrible death moos".Or Soulkeeper. I mean, imagine if she had been able to replace Rytlock as our resident charr.

@"Tuna Bandit.3786" said:I loved Eir. hated the part where she got eliminated. But... It was great for the story... I felt the loss.

But... it wasn't great for the story. It was a cheap bit of bad writing, and it made a lot of people upset about how poorly it was written. To have that lead up to "Braham the Kitten" just made a lot of people dislike that character turn even more.

Let's take that scene, and with the goal of the same basic outcome, rewrite it. Faolain and Eir are freed and start to run for it. Faolain trips, and falls next to a big thorn. She breaks it off and runs after Eir again, and the monster appears before them. Faolain yells out to Eir, tossing the thorn to her. Eir grabs it, and uses it as a weapon to injure the monster and make it back off a bit. But then a second and a third appear from the forest, surrounding them. Eir tells Faolain that when there's an opening, she's to run for it and not look back.

"You won't last a minute alone against three of them!""Then you'd better run fast."

Eir attacks, cutscene ends. By the time we get there, Eir's dead and Faolain is gone. Braham has to deal with his mother's death, though having died in combat as a hero, there's perhaps an even greater legacy to carry now. And when he sees Faolain's eventual fate/fall and that Eir's sacrifice to save her was for nothing, it can leave him with serious morality questions that help to explain the later personality shift.

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@Palador.2170 said:

@"Gryphon.2875" said:Bring back Tybalt from the Mists to replace R&R. Only tolerable Charr character.I have three words for you: "horrible death moos".Or Soulkeeper. I mean, imagine if she had been able to replace Rytlock as our resident charr.

@"Tuna Bandit.3786" said:I loved Eir. hated the part where she got eliminated. But... It was great for the story... I felt the loss.

But... it wasn't great for the story. It was a cheap bit of bad writing, and it made a lot of people upset about how poorly it was written. To have that lead up to "Braham the Kitten" just made a lot of people dislike that character turn even more.

Let's take that scene, and with the goal of the same basic outcome, rewrite it. Faolain and Eir are freed and start to run for it. Faolain trips, and falls next to a big thorn. She breaks it off and runs after Eir again, and the monster appears before them. Faolain yells out to Eir, tossing the thorn to her. Eir grabs it, and uses it as a weapon to injure the monster and make it back off a bit. But then a second and a third appear from the forest, surrounding them. Eir tells Faolain that when there's an opening, she's to run for it and not look back.

"You won't last a minute alone against three of them!""Then you'd better run fast."

Eir attacks, cutscene ends. By the time we get there, Eir's dead and Faolain is gone. Braham has to deal with his mother's death, though having died in combat as a hero, there's perhaps an even greater legacy to carry now. And when he sees Faolain's eventual fate/fall and that Eir's sacrifice to save her was for nothing, it can leave him with serious morality questions that help to explain the later personality shift.

I prefer the original scene, personally. When a character dies in a sudden and unexpected way, it makes more realistic.

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@Deadly Moonshiner.1354 said:Ryland = dead together with JormagRytlock = Blood ImperatorCrecia = new Khan-Ur

Mark my words B)

While, at this point, I too would be heavily surprised if Ryland survived the season, I can't by any means see Rytlock as an Imperator. He is immature and lacks wisdom, plus he is often driven by his sulky kid mentality -- a person like this is in no position to govern a Legion. (Although it would rid me of his company, so I probably should be in favor of the idea. ;) )

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@"Thornwolf.9721" said:My vote is for the humans and the asuran to be removed. I don't like Jory or kas

With you up to there. Now just add Logan to that list. Make him first.

I'm still not over him leaving the group in mid-fight in the pre-launch novel to go on a booty call...

Keep Taimi though. She's one of my favorites.

I'd be happy to toss out Caithe too. Keep Rox, Canach, and Gorrik.

And Koss. We just gotta start randomly running around with Koss again - if for no other reason than all the years I spent doing that back in GW1.

  • give him some kind of dialogue option where he hints at the hero he ran with in GW1, and if we're human an option to answer "that's my ancestor".
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@"Palador.2170" said:

But... it wasn't great for the story. It was a cheap bit of bad writing, and it made a lot of people upset about how poorly it was written. To have that lead up to "Braham the Kitten" just made a lot of people dislike that character turn even more.

Let's take that scene, and with the goal of the same basic outcome, rewrite it. Faolain and Eir are freed and start to run for it. Faolain trips, and falls next to a big thorn. She breaks it off and runs after Eir again, and the monster appears before them. Faolain yells out to Eir, tossing the thorn to her. Eir grabs it, and uses it as a weapon to injure the monster and make it back off a bit. But then a second and a third appear from the forest, surrounding them. Eir tells Faolain that when there's an opening, she's to run for it and not look back.

"You won't last a minute alone against three of them!""Then you'd better run fast."

Eir attacks, cutscene ends. By the time we get there, Eir's dead and Faolain is gone. Braham has to deal with his mother's death, though having died in combat as a hero, there's perhaps an even greater legacy to carry now. And when he sees Faolain's eventual fate/fall and that Eir's sacrifice to save her was for nothing, it can leave him with serious morality questions that help to explain the later personality shift.

Signing in to comment that yes, please give me this scene, it would have been perfect.

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@Hypnowulf.7403 said:

@Finalfreefall.8247 said:Guild Wars 2 has had a problem of killing side characters by the dozens while the B-team remains invincible. Makes the story a little silly really. Having Jormag kill Rytlock, Taimi and... what the heck, let's throw Braham in there and that would solve most of Guild War's storytelling problems in one strike.

As a writer, this made my mind segfault three times in a row. Character development is a cornerstone of writing and—at the moment—that's exactly what's happening. So, whenever a character gets any development we murder them? This new wave writing sounds incredibly lazy. Let's just murder everyone for schlocky shock and sleazy schadenfreude, then we can call it a day. We'll make a new round of characters and do the same to them, too!

I've never understood the hate for the characters, really. I like all of them. Taimi though is especially egregious as she's very autistic in nature so where the loathing for her persence derives from is disgracefully transparent.

Oh dude, it got so bad that Anet's nearly run out of (connected to the player) characters to maim or kill. So during PoF, they pulled a TON of characters from Elona and some from other GW1 areas, and added them to the suffering bonfire. This is... yeah. It's very bad. The relatively bulletproof qualities of the B-team only makes it worse.

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@Loesh.4697 said:

@vier.1327 said:Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

Turlock rocks.

so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

What a toxic comment.

Just a point of view as valid as yours.

I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

"You should have feelings"

"But your views aren't valid, and you aren't entitled to equal respect. "

Holy crap.

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@Finalfreefall.8247 said:

@vier.1327 said:Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

Turlock rocks.

so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

What a toxic comment.

Just a point of view as valid as yours.

I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

"You should have feelings"

"But your views aren't valid, and you aren't entitled to equal respect. "

Holy kitten.

There are views that are authentically harmful to people or groups in society. The belief that masculinity cannot be emotional is, indeed, toxic. Just because I believe that it's important that people are allowed to have feelings doesn't mean that all ideologies must be taken seriously. To be kind to all people inherently means being cruel to others.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Loesh.4697 said:

@vier.1327 said:Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

Turlock rocks.

so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

What a toxic comment.

Just a point of view as valid as yours.

I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

"You should have feelings"

"But your views aren't valid, and you aren't entitled to equal respect. "

Holy kitten.

There are views that are authentically harmful to people or groups in society. The belief that masculinity cannot be emotional is, indeed, toxic. Just because I believe that it's important that people are allowed to have feelings doesn't mean that all ideologies must be taken seriously. To be kind to all people inherently means being cruel to others.

So... being kind to some people then. And non-uplifting behavior to others. Honestly the fact that no one tried to reason with them and instead went "you're not valid" is shocking to me. At least a little logic. All the great things can be reasoned with logic. To exclude dissent instead of teaching is... religious.

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Rytlock has always been emotional and irrational from the get-go. He was very, very upset about the death of Snaff. He was so upset that he didn't talk to his chosen scapegoat (Logan) for like, seven years or so, I don't remember. That is a very emotionally driven and not stereotypically charr thing to do, since occasional deaths of warband members are/were expected for charr.

I quite liked Rytlock when he was pretty irrelevant to how the story played out and was basically just there to guide the player, but find him really grating by now.
Rytlock is also the reason why we had to chase after a rouge god of war (he freed Balthazar), and somehow the damage he cause with that is never addressed.

I don't feel there is good writing around that character, he's used at any time when [event] needs [important character] to look good, but without any consequence.
He was interesting as a character, but the way it is, I find him horrible as a lead.
Another character with a similar fate is Taimi. Which is sad, because I also really, really liked her when she was introduced.

If characters are made that important, their story should be made believable and hold weight, and the game lost me quite a while ago in that regard.

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@Finalfreefall.8247 said:

@vier.1327 said:Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

Turlock rocks.

so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

What a toxic comment.

Just a point of view as valid as yours.

I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

"You should have feelings"

"But your views aren't valid, and you aren't entitled to equal respect. "

Holy kitten.

There are views that are authentically harmful to people or groups in society. The belief that masculinity cannot be emotional is, indeed, toxic. Just because I believe that it's important that people are allowed to have feelings doesn't mean that all ideologies must be taken seriously. To be kind to all people inherently means being cruel to others.

So... being kind to some people then. And non-uplifting behavior to others. Honestly the fact that no one tried to reason with them and instead went "you're not valid" is shocking to me. At least a little logic. All the great things can be reasoned with logic. To exclude dissent instead of teaching is... religious.

To exclude dissent instead of reason is human, for good and for bad, attributing it to faith is historical revisionism at it's finest. To argue that all great things can be reasoned with logic is true, but to say that you can reason all great things with logic to everyone is naive. That said, you're ignoring the context: If I had simply said you are not valid as an opener to the conversation that would be one thing. But they asserted that the opinion was valid and I rejected it on the grounds that no, not all opinions are valid especially when they are actively damaging. If they wanted to continue the conversation from there then sure, but I deny the premise by which his point was based upon as I would not listen to someone if they based their opinion on say, phrenology, and indeed actively argue that person is a danger to society.

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@deatine.2498 said:Rytlock is also the reason why we had to chase after a rouge god of war (he freed Balthazar), and somehow the damage he cause with that is never addressed.

In his defense, he didn’t know it was Balthazar. To him, it was a random old man chained up and abandoned in the mists (who reignited Sohothin’s flame for him to boot). I suppose he could still be blamed for unwittingly freeing Balthazar, but Rytlock didn’t know who the old man was till seeing him again in PoF.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I like them all, the whole team has a part and contribute to the story in their own way.I like how all races are represented in a Lord of the Rings complicated way that makes it work, without everyone going all mushy on each other... too much.Everyone also have something they think they need to compensate for and they do it by being awsome.When Taimi says "Why do I have to be so damn good at my job", and I look at our world where everyone has to be humble and are not allowed to mention how good they are, it's kind of liberating watching her having that attitude and that energy.Rytlock is more of a Charr and they are grumpy by nature. But he is also that traditional epic hero all parties need to get things done.I think the mix of these people has made the story so good replacing someone will need a d*mn good reason.

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