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One Wolf Pack needs it's ability to Crit removed


SteepledHat.1345

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Abyssisis.3971" said:Only if one wolf pack becomes unblockable. ?

One wolf pack strikes are unblockable I am pretty sure.

Nope. A strike has to hit the target to trigger it...

OWP- "Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike"

There's a pretty clear difference between what he said and what you think he said. He's saying that OWP is unblockable, not that it grants unblockable to the skill that's supposed to trigger it.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Abyssisis.3971" said:Only if one wolf pack becomes unblockable. ?

One wolf pack strikes are unblockable I am pretty sure.

Nope. A strike has to hit the target to trigger it...

OWP- "Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike"

There's a pretty clear difference between what he said and what you think he said. He's saying that OWP is unblockable, not that it grants unblockable to the skill that's supposed to trigger it.

Are we going to niggle over who meant what? The fact of the matter is that OWP is blocked if you block the initial attack. OWP isn’t blocked if you don’t block the initial attack.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Abyssisis.3971" said:Only if one wolf pack becomes unblockable. ?

One wolf pack strikes are unblockable I am pretty sure.

Nope. A strike has to hit the target to trigger it...

OWP- "Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike"

There's a pretty clear difference between what he said and what you think he said. He's saying that OWP is unblockable, not that it grants unblockable to the skill that's supposed to trigger it.

Are we going to niggle over who meant what? The fact of the matter is that OWP is blocked if you block the initial attack. OWP isn’t blocked if you don’t block the initial attack.

Of course we will, because otherwise you're not answering to what he said but -at best- to what you wanted him to say, which is pointless.I don't understand how pointing out what has been said is something weird all of the sudden.

OWP isn't an instant hit at the exact same time a skill hits, it's not a skill modifier that makes the casted skill hit for more dmg. It's a secondary hit that strikes shortly after the used attack. It being blockable/unblockable makes a difference, because you can start blocking between both parts of dmg. It's not "niggling", nitpicking or whatever esle you'd want to call it. You've just answered with something irrelevant to what you've quoted.

...that said, I don't actually know if it's unblockable or not. :D

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Gotta be objective here and recognize that this combo just did 17k damage in only 60% of its strikes, with one button (two for OWP) in just over a second at 1500+ range. Even a Deadeye running Assassin's Signet and three offensive trait lines with full glass gear, full malice, and into full light armor can't hit that hard with kneeling DJ.

Even using double dodge immediately and taking .75s of hits, this still deals 10k damage and ignores stealth as people scream to be some sort of ultimate defense here.

Without OWP in the above example above (although it could have been dodged earlier), damage drops to 10k which is at least somewhat manageable (although this assumes there's no follow-up pressure and the victim can escape and/or catch up) despite the fact a third of the professions only have 11k base health.

I don't have a problem with ranger dealing damage, but this hits harder than most skills in the game even when fully evaded.That should say something.

Edits: Minor math and grammar.

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@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Gotta be objective here and recognize that this combo just did 17k damage in only 60% of its strikes, with one button (two for OWP) in just over a second at 1500+ range. Even a Deadeye running Assassin's Signet and three offensive trait lines with full glass gear, full malice, and into full light armor can't hit that hard with kneeling DJ.

Even using double dodge immediately and taking .75s of hits, this still deals 10k damage and ignores stealth as people scream to be some sort of ultimate defense here.

Without OWP in the above example above (although it could have been dodged earlier), damage drops to 10k which is at least somewhat manageable (although this assumes there's no follow-up pressure and the victim can escape and/or catch up) despite the fact a third of the professions only have 11k base health.

I don't have a problem with ranger dealing damage, but this hits harder than most skills in the game even when fully evaded.That should say something.

Edits: Minor math and grammar.

Ok, not like other professions aren’t capable of doing similar damage...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Shot

“Fire an unblockable shot at your foe, which blinds them, and then shadowstep to them for a dagger strike.”

Damage: 481 (1.3125)?Blindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses.Combo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 900UnblockableCosts 5 Initiative in wvw and spvp...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104151/thief-is-totally-broken-now

“15k shadowshot 0_0”

“I've dealt 8-9k shadow shots pretty happily before the feb patch, just trying to think how you would get 15k.”

“I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.”

“I've been playing Thief regularly for a few days now and it's not uncommon for me to be seeing 10 - 12k Heartseekers and 8 - 10k Shadow Shots.”

...So given that there are profession builds that can do a lot of damage, and the “fact a third of the professions only have 11k base health”, do you think we need another round of 30% damage nerfs across all professions? Just wondering...

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Gotta be objective here and recognize that this combo just did 17k damage in only 60% of its strikes, with one button (two for OWP) in just over a second at 1500+ range. Even a Deadeye running Assassin's Signet and three offensive trait lines with full glass gear, full malice, and into full light armor can't hit that hard with kneeling DJ.

Even using double dodge immediately and taking .75s of hits, this still deals 10k damage and ignores stealth as people scream to be some sort of ultimate defense here.

Without OWP in the above example above (although it could have been dodged earlier), damage drops to 10k which is at least somewhat manageable (although this assumes there's no follow-up pressure and the victim can escape and/or catch up) despite the fact a third of the professions only have 11k base health.

I don't have a problem with ranger dealing damage, but this hits harder than most skills in the game even when fully evaded.That should say something.

Edits: Minor math and grammar.

Ok, not like other professions aren’t capable of doing similar damage...

“Fire an unblockable shot at your foe, which blinds them, and then shadowstep to them for a dagger strike.”

Damage: 481 (1.3125)?Blindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses.Combo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 900UnblockableCosts 5 Initiative in wvw and spvp...

“15k shadowshot 0_0”

“I've dealt 8-9k shadow shots pretty happily before the feb patch, just trying to think how you would get 15k.”

“I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.”

“I've been playing Thief regularly for a few days now and it's not uncommon for me to be seeing 10 - 12k Heartseekers and 8 - 10k Shadow Shots.”

...So given that there are profession builds that can do a lot of damage, and the “fact a third of the professions only have 11k base health”, do you think we need another round of 30% damage nerfs across all professions? Just wondering...

You don't have to copy and paste what you've already said in other posts.I don't think you understand the scope of changes to the thief over the past few months/years such that these numbers are no longer possible, and having done out the math, the numbers in the "15k shadow shot" were on a target literally not wearing pieces of armor or absolutely perfect circumstances which is in no way feasible to balance around. These numbers for RF are NORMAL.Hell, there's no denying SShot is overtuned. Actually, if you really want to go digging through the archives of the old forums, I've said SShot is overloaded/overpowered since 2012 much to the objection of other thieves, especially after they nerfed backstab the first time. So you'll find no disagreement because I call it how it is. But just because one profession has something busted doesn't justify another having something else also just as busted. And to be honest, Shadow Shot is way easier to dodge and punishes the thief way harder when the opponent does dodge than RF. Shadow Shot is also visible when used during stealth, fun fact. So if you anticipate getting ganked, you can dodge the damage.

Such numbers are no longer possible and were in a very different game state when faster play was desired/intended. A friend of mine ran a Maul build back in like 2014 using the old SoTH which regularly used to hit for 40k. Does this make pre-buff Maul OP? No. It was the interaction which was, and why the traits got nerfed.

OWP breaks RF, mostly because RF is already an insanely strong skill on the precipice of already being considered too good for how low-risk and easy to play longbow ranger is.

And if you say otherwise... I switch off my thief and reaper, two classes of which I've got some of the best understanding in the game on (coach on both classes for Diamond sPvP and WvW dueling) and I still switch to ranger when I want reliable combat dominance without much effort. And I'm self-admittedly not even very good at ranger unlike Emi and some of the other top-tier roaming rangers that can absolutely thrash like 99.99% of the playerbase.

Longbow Soulbeast does too much damage for too little risk and really without any kind of skill expression at all. It's a similar problem as thief has with Daredevil; it's too easy to just run away from a lost fight and try again, where the rest of the class suffers from being chained down by the potential of one set. Ranger played outside of longbow takes significant risks and good game knowledge to play well (though shortbow can also be pretty braindead since the changes to Barbed Precision pushing more builds to pure tank condi rather than squishier DPS), and is why builds like D/D SB or pure GS don't function. It's also why they can't buff stuff like Barrage or the rest of longbow to actually be a better kit at higher skill levels or ZvZ, because it'd just be busted OP if they made more of its attacks unblockable or deal better AOE pressure or carry more mobility or whatever.

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Oh, I understand. I think that you are just being picky with a specific skill while ignoring the rest. But if you really feel high damage from 1 Ranger skill is an issue, then we need to look at all profession skills again.

Perhaps a round of damage nerfs to all professions would resolve this issue properly? Maybe cap all high burst skills to like 5k max, even with modifiers, or something? That will keep us below the 11k Health marker you are concerned over, and should eliminate your issue with Ranger too!

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@Swagger.1459 said:Oh, I understand. I think that you are just being picky with a specific skill while ignoring the rest. But if you really feel high damage from 1 Ranger skill is an issue, then we need to look at all profession skills again.

Perhaps a round of damage nerfs to all professions would resolve this issue properly? Maybe cap all high burst skills to like 5k max, even with modifiers, or something? That will keep us below the 11k Health marker you are concerned over, and should eliminate your issue with Ranger too!

Wouldn't that benefit greatly the professions with more base HP and toughness then? The whole game would need rebalance in that case.

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