What would bring more players regularly to DRMs?

[Opopanax.1803]

They are like "short fire damage thing"

All 3 of them feel the same.

I think I did 3 rounds before being done.

Maybe if they had loot tables for interesting gear drops...

[Solvar.7953]

I see lots of comments of 'make rewards better', and while that would certain draw some players to it, I don't really think that is a good fix or necessarily a good direction to the game.Effectively what Anet is doing in that case is paying players to play poor content. This sounds like most jobs, where the employer is paying the employee to do something that they otherwise wouldn't do.Basing a game on that seems like a poor idea - mostly because at some point the players will realize that they could instead play game X, in which the content is actually enjoyable to play.

[Infusion.7149]

@"Solvar.7953" said:I see lots of comments of 'make rewards better', and while that would certain draw some players to it, I don't really think that is a good fix or necessarily a good direction to the game.Effectively what Anet is doing in that case is paying players to play poor content. This sounds like most jobs, where the employer is paying the employee to do something that they otherwise wouldn't do.Basing a game on that seems like a poor idea - mostly because at some point the players will realize that they could instead play game X, in which the content is actually enjoyable to play.

Then you have an issue with the whole genre of MMOs which generally have some repetition but it boils down to whether it is optional to be on an even footing or not. At least things usually don't die in one hit here (the definition of grind basically) and it's optional content as far as repeats (even the CM achievements are optional).

Is the amount of Prismatium Crystal excessive for the weapons collection? Yes if you want to finish it all now. However, we know that there are more DRMs incoming at least until May 2021 when the 4th part of Icebrood Saga Champions is supposed to be released. One of my casual player friends with relatively high AP that more or less does openworld is half way through (~250 Prismatium Crystal) and they don't even grind this game really. Last I checked I'm at around 230 crystals and I haven't really been doing them diligently after the Crystal Bloom and Ebon Vanguard daily rewards were retired.

If you look at it through the lens of "I have to finish the whole collection tomorrow" then you will have a different view than "it can be done at my leisure and we have a minimum of May 2021 to be finished with it". The main problem now is the rewards. The opportunity cost beyond the first one or two DRMs per day currently isn't there (third one is 1 bonus Prismatium Crystal) and upping rewards slightly while removing the annoying wait once all the pre-events are done would be a step in the right direction.

Also the entire weapon collection is by definition optional because it doesn't even have mastery points associated with it unlike "Tengu Weapon Collector" or "Master of the Ancestral Forge" for example.

[Hesione.9412]

Making the NPCs more robust to damage would be a huge improvement.

[Fleabite.7528]

DRMs are looking like dead content right now, despite being the current 'episode'. Zero in looking for groups in either Tyria or Champions after 30 mins of waiting. Other maps and LS episodes still busy.

This needs an urgent fix. Because if the next instalment is as poor, I fear people will start drifting off - myself included.

[Linken.6345]

@Fleabite.7528 said:DRMs are looking like dead content right now, despite being the current 'episode'. Zero in looking for groups in either Tyria or Champions after 30 mins of waiting. Other maps and LS episodes still busy.

This needs an urgent fix. Because if the next instalment is as poor, I fear people will start drifting off - myself included.

Do know that alot of people are doing wintersday stuff now since its time limited content

[Cuks.8241]

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Fleabite.7528" said:DRMs are looking like dead content right now, despite being the current 'episode'. Zero in looking for groups in either Tyria or Champions after 30 mins of waiting. Other maps and LS episodes still busy.

This needs an urgent fix. Because if the next instalment is as poor, I fear people will start drifting off - myself included.

Do know that alot of people are doing wintersday stuff now since its time limited content

Yeah but all other stuff is running normally. You don't notice much difference with fracs and metas. Strikes are slow but strikes have been slow for a while and there just ain't enough of them.DRMs you can hardly see a group in lfg at all.I don't really care about rewards. They are just boring. Rehashed maps, annoying grouping system and just boredom, there's nothing interesting with them. No interesting mechanic, boring bosses with old designs, plenty of waiting.They put us in instance with mounts, they could do something fun with them. Like a mount chase segment or mounted charging attack. But no we get to whack destroyers and a bigger destroyer hp sponge.

The only mechanic is "jump the wave". Oh but wait we did this million times already, oh we will just put in 5 times more waves, great everybody loves to jump the wave all the time.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Cuks.8241 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Fleabite.7528 said:DRMs are looking like dead content right now, despite being the current 'episode'. Zero in looking for groups in either Tyria or Champions after 30 mins of waiting. Other maps and LS episodes still busy.

This needs an urgent fix. Because if the next instalment is as poor, I fear people will start drifting off - myself included.

Do know that alot of people are doing wintersday stuff now since its time limited content

Yeah but all other stuff is running normally. You don't notice much difference with fracs and metas. Strikes are slow but strikes have been slow for a while and there just ain't enough of them.DRMs you can hardly see a group in lfg at all.

because people are either doing public and don't care about lfg or do runs with guildmats and do not care about lfg?

This is at least what I am doing - and some people I know.

[Zaraki.5784]

Better rewards, not being boring as the three already in-game, better rewards again.

[Ayrilana.1396]

The public DRMs have no issues or at least the metrica one doesn't. I think a number of people game up on doing CMs every day because the chance to get the weapon skin drop is so low.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Anet is asking too much of players again when it comes to crafting weapons. The rate of getting this new material is awful and the drop rate of those weapons that have an MP behind it is just the flies on that sht cake.

[Antycypator.9874]

2/3 DRMs are basicaly escort missions, which is... probably the most hated type of events in games history.

It lacks real group content, like spliting people on a specific roles, mechanics, events. It's just another "we need healer, boons and DPS". Why? Throw it out, maybe give us "we need someone to do X event, 2 people for Y, 2 for Z mechanic".

There is no progres on anything.

[Fenom.9457]

In my opinion DRMs are a pretty good system and could be dramatically improved with just a few QOL changes around rewards and time.

1. Fix the lfg bugs where you can only enter as a party, all that crap where you join a squad then you have to leave so they can make a party and stuff. I haven’t been able to find a group for DRMs for a while so maybe they already fixed this?

2. Make it so the first part auto completes after the goals are met - the timer should be a limit, not a mandatory amount of time. Alternatively, add more levels to the event and the more players accomplish the better their rewards are. For example, once you meet the initial goal of 25 destroyer kills, it bumps to 35. Put out 10 fires, it goes to 15. So on and so on, each level past the first you progress increases your rewards at the end.

3. Speaking of rewards, the DRM-specific items need work. Firstly, there’s almost nothing to buy with the tokens. I assume this will get fixed with time, but anet needs to dramatically increase how much you can buy with them. Also, it would be nice if the volcanic weapons could be purchased for these tokens. They can come at a very high price to preserve the rarity if desired, in fact that would help with the token surplus problem. Any way to make it so things aren’t 100% RNG, no matter how far fetched the alternatives are.

4. For future DRMs, add MORE destroyers. I know the current ones all got new attacks so they feel somewhat different, but you’d be shocked how much the model makes a difference. The new attacks count for almost nothing when you’re fighting nothing but the same guys we’ve had since 2012. New models, new enemy varieties is very important, and apparently anet is underestimating how big of a difference it makes. Especially when the enemies AND maps are old content.

5. For the longer term future - keep the concept! Don’t drop it like seemingly every other game mode, please anet there’s no need to constantly abandon everything for something “better”, just because it’s new. DRMs can be relevant against other dragons than just in this current saga. In fact, they could even be relevant to past dragons! I for one would LOVE to revisit the jungle, Orr, and the desert to mop up dragon minions, touch base with some of those characters, and learn a little more about dragon minions after their dragon dies. And keep in mind these don’t have to have too much story - any one DRM on its own doesn’t do much, so these would be reasonably small bite sized chunks to update us on past stories, all while being easy for anet to make as they would be entirely comprised of old content from enemies to maps (I know I just criticized that. It’s not ok when DRMs are the main flow of content. But, if in the future, anet adds a few based on past dragons as side content between whatever the current story is, that’s perfectly fine).

[Linken.6345]

@Fenom.9457 said:In my opinion DRMs are a pretty good system and could be dramatically improved with just a few QOL changes around rewards and time.

1. Fix the lfg bugs where you can only enter as a party, all that kitten where you join a squad then you have to leave so they can make a party and stuff. I haven’t been able to find a group for DRMs for a while so maybe they already fixed this?

2. Make it so the first part auto completes after the goals are met - the timer should be a limit, not a mandatory amount of time. Alternatively, add more levels to the event and the more players accomplish the better their rewards are. For example, once you meet the initial goal of 25 destroyer kills, it bumps to 35. Put out 10 fires, it goes to 15. So on and so on, each level past the first you progress increases your rewards at the end.

3. Speaking of rewards, the DRM-specific items need work. Firstly, there’s almost nothing to buy with the tokens. I assume this will get fixed with time, but anet needs to dramatically increase how much you can buy with them. Also, it would be nice if the volcanic weapons could be purchased for these tokens. They can come at a very high price to preserve the rarity if desired, in fact that would help with the token surplus problem. Any way to make it so things aren’t 100% RNG, no matter how far fetched the alternatives are.

4. For future DRMs, add MORE destroyers. I know the current ones all got new attacks so they feel somewhat different, but you’d be shocked how much the model makes a difference. The new attacks count for almost nothing when you’re fighting nothing but the same guys we’ve had since 2012. New models, new enemy varieties is very important, and apparently anet is underestimating how big of a difference it makes. Especially when the enemies AND maps are old content.

5. For the longer term future - keep the concept! Don’t drop it like seemingly every other game mode, please anet there’s no need to constantly abandon everything for something “better”, just because it’s new. DRMs can be relevant against other dragons than just in this current saga. In fact, they could even be relevant to past dragons! I for one would LOVE to revisit the jungle, Orr, and the desert to mop up dragon minions, touch base with some of those characters, and learn a little more about dragon minions after their dragon dies. And keep in mind these don’t have to have too much story - any one DRM on its own doesn’t do much, so these would be reasonably small bite sized chunks to update us on past stories, all while being easy for anet to make as they would be entirely comprised of old content from enemies to maps (I know I just criticized that. It’s not ok when DRMs are the main flow of content. But, if in the future, anet adds a few based on past dragons as side content between whatever the current story is, that’s perfectly fine).

They already fixed nr1 and the rest I agree with

[Eekasqueak.7850]

The biggest problems I have with them right now is the lack of variety and poor rewards.

[RizelStar.3724]

I'm curious, would it really hurt if they ever tie a few mount skins as rewards in the actual game? Like just armored versions of the default skins? Would that hurt their pockets?

I understand the whole gemstore spill, but kind of how like in WVW you can unlock that Guild mountskin, why on earth are they holding back mountskin rewards being obtainable in game. I love my current mountskins, but to be real and honest, it can come down to a person assuming I just pulled out my wallet and got the skin, not grind for the gold to get the gems. So it's a little less impressive in the grand scheme of things.

Hell maybe even BL Keys, I mean I know less money but something sheesh. I mean like if volcanic weapon skins, came with sigils that on chance shoot a random volcanic particle doing dmg in an aoe, PVE only, just for an effect other than visuals. Is a glider engage skill gamebreaking? Heck throw that in the masteries make it usable everywhere. Ha ha I mean maybe I'm proposing a lot of game flaws, but i swear I don't see these as game breaking.

I'm just IDK, thankfully I'm in a really active Guild, and the EOD reveal came out, yet I swear it's hard to keep playing sometimes. I just hope the creativity picks up a bit, cause I dislike knowing that the next update will bring more gemstore items, visual weapon skins, few armor skins, and masteries that effect a particular game feature...oh and titles and achievements. I'm just...man....

[Mauti.3520]

rewards and more engaging gameplay

[leila.7962]

In all honesty, after playing the game since the betas, DRM's were the first pve content that I could not find anything I that actually enjoyed. Still, I believe there are a few changes that could improve the DRM's and maybe make them less annoying to complete.

1. Pre events: They have so much dialogues! For a repeatable content, it gets really tiring to listen to it over and over. Why not make it like in dungeons? Make these dialogues a generic cutscene that is skippable. Also, just like a lot of events on the game, they should give you a shorter countdown timer after all the tasks are finished, so it would cut off all the waiting / idle / boring time.

2. Combat: Combat wise, it's just more of the same, no new mechanics, so no 'wow this is a cool fight' factor. The last bosses from each DRM are not challenging at all, it feels like core game 2012 kind of combat, we know Anet can do better than that. Back then it would have been cool but for a 2020 game experience, it is not enough. The trashmob fights are ok, but the last bosses surely could offer a better and more challenging fight.

3. Encounters: They could also improve the encounters to make it seem more like an invasion. At some point the destroyers even uses the door to reach you!! What kind of invader uses the doors to invade?? Also, right now, you just wait on the next spot where they are going to pop. So basically, the encounters are really underwhelming, because they are predictable and easy. Randomness and volume would work better from a player perspective.

4. Rewards: Needless to say that after a long mission people would want to feel that they are rewarded accordingly. I don't think that the Volcanic weapons should have a better drop rate, because they are supposed to be the best drop from the DRM's, but the common rewards really need to get better. The Tyrian Defense Seals rewards should be improved because it requires a lot of them to get low/underwhelming stuff from the vendors.

5. Vendors: The vendors should offer things that people actually want. Right now the traders offer a bunch of recipes and we all know that a lot of the players don't care about crafting things. There are a few skins that they offer, which are ok, but once you bought them all, you have even less reasons to work for the Tyrian Defense Seals. Rewarding material boxes are also ok, but they cost too many tokens for a single box that offers a very little amount of mats, while you can get more materials on other maps doing metas and trading volatile magic for them. What could they add? Mystic coins for example, at a fair rate (15 TDS = 1 MC maybe). They could also offer ascended materials (deldrimor ingots, spirit wood planks, etc.). If they add valuable items on the vendor it would help fix the issue, so people wouldn't feel like 30 mins of game play were wasted on less than 3 g worth of rewards. IMO, it would be a good way to bring all the kids to the yard (people that are working on legendary weapons/armor, people that want to make quick gold, crafters, first timers wanting to make their first ascended items, etc.).

[Infusion.7149]

@"leila.7962" said:In all honesty, after playing the game since the betas, DRM's were the first pve content that I could not find anything I that actually enjoyed. Still, I believe there are a few changes that could improve the DRM's and maybe make them less annoying to complete.

1. Pre events: They have so much dialogues! For a repeatable content, it gets really tiring to listen to it over and over. Why not make it like in dungeons? Make these dialogues a generic cutscene that is skippable. Also, just like a lot of events on the game, they should give you a shorter countdown timer after all the tasks are finished, so it would cut off all the waiting / idle / boring time.

2. Combat: Combat wise, it's just more of the same, no new mechanics, so no 'wow this is a cool fight' factor. The last bosses from each DRM are not challenging at all, it feels like core game 2012 kind of combat, we know Anet can do better than that. Back then it would have been cool but for a 2020 game experience, it is not enough. The trashmob fights are ok, but the last bosses surely could offer a better and more challenging fight.

3. Encounters: They could also improve the encounters to make it seem more like an invasion. At some point the destroyers even uses the door to reach you!! What kind of invader uses the doors to invade?? Also, right now, you just wait on the next spot where they are going to pop. So basically, the encounters are really underwhelming, because they are predictable and easy. Randomness and volume would work better from a player perspective.

4. Rewards: Needless to say that after a long mission people would want to feel that they are rewarded accordingly. I don't think that the Volcanic weapons should have a better drop rate, because they are supposed to be the best drop from the DRM's, but the common rewards really need to get better. The Tyrian Defense Seals rewards should be improved because it requires a lot of them to get low/underwhelming stuff from the vendors.

5. Vendors: The vendors should offer things that people actually want. Right now the traders offer a bunch of recipes and we all know that a lot of the players don't care about crafting things. There are a few skins that they offer, which are ok, but once you bought them all, you have even less reasons to work for the Tyrian Defense Seals. Rewarding material boxes are also ok, but they cost too many tokens for a single box that offers a very little amount of mats, while you can get more materials on other maps doing metas and trading volatile magic for them. What could they add? Mystic coins for example, at a fair rate (15 TDS = 1 MC maybe). They could also offer ascended materials (deldrimor ingots, spirit wood planks, etc.). If they add valuable items on the vendor it would help fix the issue, so people wouldn't feel like 30 mins of game play were wasted on less than 3 g worth of rewards. IMO, it would be a good way to bring all the kids to the yard (people that are working on legendary weapons/armor, people that want to make quick gold, crafters, first timers wanting to make their first ascended items, etc.).

I think everyone hates the timer ticking even though the pre-events are finished. Either there should be more stat bonuses for repeating it over (i.e. 20/10) to make the rest of it faster or it should just move to next stage. Also in Forging Steel you can superspeed the tank but it doesn't seem you can do the same for the NPCs in DRMs.

Volcanic Stormcaller weapons could also have a high amount of defense seals (500+) plus "volcanic cores" (volcanic lodestones + charged quartz + orichalcum ingots + bolts of gossamer) and amalgamated draconic lodestones as an alternative form of account-bound acquisition if you don't get it as a drop. They're not even ascended weapons, for the price they're ludicrous unless you love the skin since realistically you won't get one as a drop. A non-RNG alternative similar to the way Gold Fractal weapons work would be welcomed.

Probably suggest weekly capped amalgamated draconic lodestones could be rewarded or even a mystic clover or two if defense seals (not prismatium crystal) are required (fractals have up to 2 per day) as a way to warrant actually doing up to 3 daily DRMs. The amalgamated draconic lodestone is around 13 gold and the mystic clover valuation is around 9 gold now. The people making legendaries have more use for clovers than the coins and alts won't be abused. It's clear the Crystal Bloom materials boxes were to flood mid-tier materials but the time-gate is mystic clover unless you like playing RNG in the mystic forge.

15 Tyrian Defense seals for 1 Mystic Coin would be a rather high payoff as on average a CM version of DRM gives around 15 and each daily bonus gives 5. Realistically the entire DRM takes below 15 minutes. Mystic coins are in openworld though.

If it's just intended as a way to provide people with gear, it's failing horribly for the majority of the playerbase which is not on legendaries across every character (and impossible even if you wanted to due to accessories). There's no ascended backpieces tradeable for Eternal Ice right now. An ascended backpiece could have been added for defense seals ; as you stated deldrimor steel ingots/spirit wood planks would have priority over ascended armor ingredients because weapons matter far more than armor.

[Hesione.9412]

Would making them harder bring more players to them?

[Genthore.2384]

they have made the entire game wayyyyyy too complex and not enjoyable anymore. When you have to change what your experience counts for(mastery points lol) and which money and which keys you use on every stupid new map it is beyond stupid. I have literally taken college courses that required less learning than this game

[Genthore.2384]

and when your build works great one week and they nerf it the next it makes you say screw this

[Dawdler.8521]

@Hesione.9412 said:Would making them harder bring more players to them?That would just make less people play them because there is no point in the end reward. Theres better things to do with your time.

[Linken.6345]

@Genthore.2384 said:and when your build works great one week and they nerf it the next it makes you say screw this

If only balance patches were weekly.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

If the DRM continue as they currently are then I will do the minimum required to get through the story and base achievements. I would suggest the following changes:

1 - Make Squad Sized DRM, scaling mob count and difficultyI fail to understand the intent of limiting DRM to 5 players. As such, I feel that making DRM work in groups larger than 5 and up to 50 would benefit the overall playability.

2 - In Squad Sized DRM, bake CM into 'pre-events' where completing the pre unlocks the CMIf the group can pull of the pre-events, then they can likely pull off the CM, scale rewards accordingly

3 - Give each Squad Sized DRM a set start time once every 1 hour (expanding to every 2 hours assuming additional DRM are released)By having a focused start time every 20-30 minutes, players will have a target time to engage the DRM they want to play.

4 - Retain DRM for 1-5 players as 'on demand' content, but also as the primary way of engaging with the story elements.In the above Squad size DRM, the story elements could be toned down, for example all the dialogue during the escort in Metrica.

There is an argument for giving DRM farmable value similar to other content currently available. However I would be far more likely to do DRM dailies if Squad Sized DRM was an option, regardless of the net value.