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QoL Buff and Nerf Wishlist/Request for Revenant Skills/Traits (8 July 2022)


Shao.7236

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@Shao.7236 said:QQ Hammer still broken.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" I added some True Nature changes in case you'd be interested.

Those Ventari changes are on the right path to make Ventari better though.

An interesting idea and would surely be a huge buff for a whole myriad of specs. It would be sweet to get really close to the previous 33% boon duration from ye olde Facet of Nature. 15% damage reduction sounds really yummy too. My main concern with it is that it would make Facet of Nature - Ventari too strong. It is already a very potent heal (despite the PvP version being 1 upkeep too high), but amping it up 50% would be pretty cray. Granted, Elder's Respite is really solid and would be a sacrifice to run without it if using Glint, but in WvW, being able to provide ~1.5k/hps on 10 targets from this skill alone sounds really insane. Not against your proposal, just a bit concerned that it'd be too overtuned.

My question to you (and anyone else reading): how do you feel about Elevated Compassion? Perhaps it is just that Draconic Echo is so strong and completely overshadows the trait, but the trait feels a bit too weak to justify using. I am not sure what to suggest changing about it. Simply raising the healing coefficient, perhaps? I'd like to see this trait actually used over Draconic Echo in WvW for healing Revenants (you can reach 10 targets easily via Shared Empowerment--very important synergy). Even though I feel the trait is undertuned, I do appreciate how it is balanced: only affecting allies as opposed to self and allies.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Shao.7236 said:QQ Hammer still broken.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" I added some True Nature changes in case you'd be interested.

Those Ventari changes are on the right path to make Ventari better though.

An interesting idea and would surely be a huge buff for a whole myriad of specs. It would be sweet to get really close to the previous 33% boon duration from ye olde Facet of Nature. 15% damage reduction sounds really yummy too. My main concern with it is that it would make Facet of Nature - Ventari too strong. It is already a very potent heal (despite the PvP version being 1 upkeep too high), but amping it up 50% would be pretty cray. Granted, Elder's Respite is really solid and would be a sacrifice to run without it if using Glint, but in WvW, being able to provide ~1.5k/hps on 10 targets from this skill alone sounds really insane. Not against your proposal, just a bit concerned that it'd be too overtuned.

My question to you (and anyone else reading): how do you feel about Elevated Compassion? Perhaps it is just that Draconic Echo is so strong and completely overshadows the trait, but the trait feels a bit too weak to justify using. I am not sure what to suggest changing about it. Simply raising the healing coefficient, perhaps? I'd like to see this trait actually used over Draconic Echo in WvW for healing Revenants (you can reach 10 targets easily via Shared Empowerment--very important synergy). Even though I feel the trait is undertuned, I do appreciate how it is balanced: only affecting allies as opposed to self and allies.

Elevated Compassion should be like Resilient Spirit, but only for Teammates, capped at 5 boons. Giving 5 boons at once every time should heal 5 times the amount. Doing that seems like it should have it's co-efficient nerfed a little since healing as much as 5,657 every 3 seconds could be considered a lot, though you have to activate a lot of Facets, draining your energy really fast to the point where it's not as effective as Natural Harmony which not only heals for a similar or more (Losing -5 every 1 second). I think this would be the changes it deserves because it gives Herald the ability to effectively support for a moment.

As for those Facet of Nature changes, I got through the effort of seeing how would it be effective. To be honest, it would only be really good to do this if Invoking Harmony is not used which is likely, but also this upkeep used at -2 does really put a dent in the ability to use skills often(PvP being the absolute worst.), so I don't think it would be that bad, healing for 3.4k~ every 3 seconds is far from OP when the Tablet can do twice as better already. It's like giving up on healing potency for a bigger radius.

Finally it's either Core Value or Elder's Respite which is quite a fair trade off because in between something that's easy to keep up and the latter being harder and possibly unstrippable with Draconic Echo, but that would mean giving up on Facets being able to heal.

All this talk is actually making me think that this could solve the never ending problem of Ventari Tablet being too hard for people to follow or care about with the Facet of Nature. Although I hope you can see where this is going, giving effectively Herald the ability to support with good healing or increase the targets for Ventari to do the job, both can't be achieved however which is where things balances out.

Ventari would be an even better mobile area of peace that heals reliably if Core Value had those changes, which to the closer people go to the center of that peace (Tablet, which the player is likely to have near him.), the stronger the healing, this last sentence is just a clever saying over the design.

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Elevated compassion needs to affect 10 players, still atm is already way more strong than guardian virtue passive heal...wich if I recall it’s the max heal value divided by 3 since it ticks per sec part of total value

It is in a weird spot, my best option would be merge it withnsome other trait.

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I read through the whole thing and I can put a more detailed response later but I just wanted to talk about some renegade stuff I'd like to see changed (from a pvp renegade perspective)1) Valid pathing for the summons needs to go away. There are so many random spots you can't summon on, or if the enemy/you kites at all, you lose all use of your utils' access for pathing reasons.2) Summons need to have some stab, evade, or invuln duration at the start of their channel time so you can at least get them to activate right away. I have had many a time when I summon one, and someone happens to drop a big aoe cc right after then suddenly the summons don't work for the next 5 seconds cause they don't have stunbreaks and have to re-channel the start of their effects which by then aren't worth having since you needed them about 5 seconds ago3) Bleed on hit summon should be turned into either some form of condi removal, or some form of damage reduction (renegade's heal has a 50% condi reduction, so doing a bit of dmg reduction wouldn't be impossible) but I'd prefer to see condi removal for team over just more dmg reduction.4) Daze on hit summon should either pulse stab to the renegade while they are in the vicinity of the skill, or the base stab needs to be 3 stacks for like 5 seconds. Right now, renegade is laughably punishable through cc in addition to having no safety nets (invulns, glint heal, extreme stab access, etc.) giving better access to stab that will allow the rev to get off the necessary skill casts and perform better against really every build currently in game since they all have a wide range of cc to use.

Just like you mentioned with the shortbow, the #3 is clunky, I'd honestly like to see it keep the current functionality but let the converge point adjust based on where you put the cursor so that aiming the attack is doable and provides good payoff. Honestly, the 2 skill isn't very helpful either and I'd love to see it turn into some sort of blinding shot, or evade backwards and cripple your foe skill.

These changes would make renegade functional for pvp and would really help to clean up a ton of it's flow issues. Probably not gonna happen, but it'd be nice if it did.

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I just noticed your post after I already posted my idea.Since I can't delete posts, I hope you don't mind posting it here too.

Also, before that, I'd like to add that I find Revs Hammer pretty weak.Hammers should do a lot more damage, since it's blunt damage.I know that because its skill 1 is a distant hit, it's classed as projectile rather than melee, so I'd like to see that changed too.Skill 1 should be a melee hit combo.Remove the smoke wall thingy and place the projectile in there.


I've got an idea for Core revenant.

Instead of having just the current F2 skill to recharge energy, you could do the following.

We could have an F3 key that would display a symbol, according to the two legends matched up.

For instance, if you match Shiro, and Demon, we get Ying Yang symbol, which once ready, we'd get boons and a mash up power of the two.

Such as Embrace the Darkness + Impossible Odds.So we'd gain; Torment + Quickness = Bonus effect of Fear or Vulnerability.

Another example.Great Dwarf + Centaur.We'd get like a benevolence symbol.We'd gain; Toughness + Regeneration = Bonus Resistance.

Great Dwarf + Demon.Toughness + Torment = Bonus Distortion.

Well, you get the idea with that.

The symbol skill would take 60 seconds to recharge, and would use the existing upkeep energy bar; using 6 upkeep bars.

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  • 7 months later...

Since this got bumped, chaos facet making you hear protection application sound every 2.5 seconds is a serious quality of life issue, and needs to be addressed. If the duration is going to stay the boon needs to be something that wont make a sound when applied, having it apply aegis over a longer duration may be interesting. Aside from that id just like sword 4 to get its block back and to have more stun break accessibility all around and then wed be good. As things are right now, if you get disabled right after you swap legends to break stun, you are ded, other classes with slottable utils can choose not to have this problem, rev cannot do this.

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Got some Sword Suggestions which people will call me crazy for, but I'm gonna do it.

Autos - Fine.Chilling Isolation - Fine.

Things I want :

Unrelenting Assault :

  • Changed to 600 cast range.

Deathstrike - Reworked

New Deathstrike :

  • Begin Blocking the next hit.
  • After blocking an attack, skill can be recast to shadow step to the target dealing heavy damage and putting the skill into cooldown.
  • Can be recasted early for a 600 range backstep and putting the skill into cooldown.
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  • 4 months later...

Facets and Consumes should be standardized. Facets should have zero activations. Consumes should have ~3/4 activation, across the board. This will nerf Infuse Light, as intended. And shield really could use some love, I'm really trying hard to like it, but it's so difficult. Right now, the only saving grace is "I get to sometimes clear some conditions, yay!", which depends on a trait.

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@"The Boz.2038" said:Facets and Consumes should be standardized. Facets should have zero activations. Consumes should have ~3/4 activation, across the board. This will nerf Infuse Light, as intended. And shield really could use some love, I'm really trying hard to like it, but it's so difficult. Right now, the only saving grace is "I get to sometimes clear some conditions, yay!", which depends on a trait.

But why? It's design is fine, it's the latter following it. Defiant Stance has just as short of a cast time or in fact has it way lower because Infuse Light requires 2 inputs for the player, it's short but can make a difference.

What makes it overpowered is the duration lasting too long, making it shorter for requiring proper plays would make it balanced because that's the better aspect outside of Defiant Stance itself, there's a preparation then an instant cast, they're otherwise equal. Of course the base heal should be increased by about 50%, it'll otherwise be too weak. Being able to tell when someone has the Facet activated in their status bar is already pretty big of a tell.

While I agree that shield is quite a bit underwhelming. It's not that bad, it does work well enough as it is and could use more team oriented benefits.

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Heralds F2 -Facet of Nature- could definetely need a buff, In my opinion.Its the only thing that gives herald access to becoming a viable class in pve-endgame like raids.my ideas:

Shiro-Facet of Nature: reduce the internal cooldown from 0.5 to 0.33 or 0.25 (like impossible odds).It wouldnt really make herald itself any stronger, but would improve a groups damage a bit more, to make up for the low damage of the herald.

Dwarf-Facet of Nature: has 10% dmg reduction. Give it an additional 10% condi-dmg reduction, so it would line up with Vengeful Hammers & Dwarf-Elite(with retribution-trait)

Ventari-Facet of Nature: definetely needs an buff. Together with regeneration, its heralds only source to be an healer in 10man-content.My idea: change PvE's healpower-modifier from 0,4 to 0,6

Glint-Facet of Nature: tbh i dont know how to improve it. Its able to extend given boons. In real, most classes dont give boons at all. Only supporters are there to give boons. Without supporters, herald would only a bit buff itself.With supporters like druid, firebrands etc, it would only help these classes maintain the boons the herald can give anyway, so there wouldnt be a need for herald boons whatsoever.

It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

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@"Virdo.1540" said:It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

Rev already pretty much has dibs on alacr position in group content, I'm not sure why it would need another "class-specific group buff". That's already something that exists for this class as a whole.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

Rev already pretty much has
dibs
on alacr position in group content, I'm not sure why it would need another "class-specific group buff". That's already something that exists for this class as a whole.

They're clearly discussing Herald not Renegade

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

Rev already pretty much has
dibs
on alacr position in group content, I'm not sure why it would need another "class-specific group buff". That's already something that exists for this class as a whole.

They're clearly discussing Herald not Renegade

Yes, but the Herald and Renegade aren't a separate class, it's still all Rev. And "Rev" is clearly what I wrote.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

Rev already pretty much has
dibs
on alacr position in group content, I'm not sure why it would need another "class-specific group buff". That's already something that exists for this class as a whole.

They're clearly discussing Herald not Renegade

Yes, but the Herald and Renegade aren't a separate class, it's still all Rev. And "Rev" is clearly what I wrote.

alacrity isn't a "class specific group buff" unless you completely ignore mesmers. While I don't necessarily agree that Herald should receive even stronger class specific buffs than it already has, you have to admit that Herald is floundering behind almost all other specs in the game, as it has done since about a year after its release 6 years ago. Something should be done to fix that. A class specific buff or increase to the already existing buffs is certainly one way to do that

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

Rev already pretty much has
dibs
on alacr position in group content, I'm not sure why it would need another "class-specific group buff". That's already something that exists for this class as a whole.

They're clearly discussing Herald not Renegade

Yes, but the Herald and Renegade aren't a separate class, it's still all Rev. And "Rev" is clearly what I wrote.

alacrity isn't a "class specific group buff" unless you completely ignore mesmers.

I'd say it's close enough to being "class specific group buff" to classify it as such seeing how in most cases it just gives rev a reserved spot in a squad/party. But, uh... Ok, assassin's presence then, w/e :D

While I don't necessarily agree that Herald should receive even stronger class specific buffs than it already has, you have to admit that Herald is floundering behind almost all other specs in the game, as it has done since about a year after its release 6 years ago. Something should be done to fix that. A class specific buff or increase to the already existing buffs is certainly one way to do that

Maaaybe if you talk strictly about pve. But I don't.It really seems like some people decided to look at especs as the classes of their own. That's not what they are. They're part of the whole class, each espec doesn't need to compete against the second one and core. If one espec is stronger in mode/role a, but second espec (or core) is stronger in mode/role b, then that doesn't mean for me that they need to be buffed to fill the roles they don't currently fill. If Ren has a pretty much reserved spot in squads due to whatever-boon, then it doesn't mean that herald needs its own boon spam to rival it. So no, I disagree that it needs to be buffed in that area.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Maaaybe if you talk strictly about pve. But I don't.

That's great and all, but Virdo was speaking about PvE if you read closely

You dropped 90% of the post you've quoted tho.

My original comment was directed at your comment towards Virdo which was discussing PvE Herald. I’m not really interested in engaging with anything else in this conversation

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Maaaybe if you talk strictly about pve. But I don't.

That's great and all, but Virdo was speaking about PvE if you read closely

You dropped 90% of the post you've quoted tho.

My original comment was directed at your comment towards Virdo which was discussing PvE Herald. I’m not really interested in engaging with anything else in this conversation

Yes and that comment was a missed answer seeing how I was writing about revenant class with its ability to have a "reserved slot" in pve squads and somehow you felt the need to correct me "it's about herald not revenant". The part you've cut out from later post was also talking about what I've wrote before. That Revenant as a class already has it and every espec doesn't need to do the same thing, because especs aren't seperate classes. So not sure what the point was tbh, but it wasn't really an answer to what I said in the first place.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Maaaybe if you talk strictly about pve. But I don't.

That's great and all, but Virdo was speaking about PvE if you read closely

You dropped 90% of the post you've quoted tho.

My original comment was directed at your comment towards Virdo which was discussing PvE Herald. I’m not really interested in engaging with anything else in this conversation

Yes and that comment was a missed answer seeing how I was writing about revenant class with its ability to have a "reserved slot" in pve squads and somehow you felt the need to correct me "it's about herald not revenant". The part you've cut out from later post was also talking about what I've wrote before. That Revenant as a class already has it and every espec doesn't need to do the same thing, because especs aren't seperate classes. So not sure what the point was tbh, but it wasn't really an answer to what I said in the first place.

That comment wasn’t a missed answer, we just have different ways of seeing elite specs and balance. Your other post made it clear we won’t see eye to eye on this issue ever. I think all elite specs should be viable (not meaning optimal here) within a certain range of each other in PvE. You don’t see it as an issue and don’t believe specs need to be viable in all modes (per your own words). So there’s no use talking further about this.

The fact is though that Herald lags behind almost every other spec in PvE (which is an objective fact) and something should be done to address that. The fact you don’t see that as an issue and I do means we won’t agree.

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MaceQuickness needs to affect Echoing Eruption, it's one of the main damage output that cannot be helped which is already quite telegraphed. Leaps like Weaver and Holosmith already can be sped up, so this is no limitation whatsoever.

That's inconsistent across the board anyway seems weird to bring up classes where it does function but not mention that there are instances that it doesn't.

From the top of my headEviscerateBreaching StrikeAura SlicerKnowing how much you love war would you like dagger's leaps to work with quickness?

I figured they did this on purpose since heartseeker works with quickness but breaching strike doesn't despite being the same animation but with gold particle effects.

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@Tycura.1982 said:

MaceQuickness needs to affect Echoing Eruption, it's one of the main damage output that cannot be helped which is already quite telegraphed. Leaps like Weaver and Holosmith already can be sped up, so this is no limitation whatsoever.

That's inconsistent across the board anyway seems weird to bring up classes where it does function but not mention that there are instances that it doesn't.

From the top of my headEviscerateBreaching StrikeAura SlicerKnowing how much you love war would you like dagger's leaps to work with quickness?

I figured they did this on purpose since heartseeker works with quickness but breaching strike doesn't despite being the same animation but with gold particle effects.

Tbh, you made me think about it further and IMO I can see why they did it. Mace can be considerably good at hitting multi-targets or even the same person twice depending where they dodge/move.

My biggest irk isn't the following 3 hits per say since that always tend to hit but rather the fact that playing with Shiro as Condition, feels like your main burst is completely lost because auto's are weak, 2nd is not really any better, 4th has a purpose that does not benefit much from quickness and 5th is basically the only thing really worth doing. (Assuming it's Mace/Axe.)

Could have the animation complete faster but the hits which are separate from it by obvious visual could still be the same spread.

For Warrior I definitely think Aura Slicer deserves the speed up, but the other two idk. Eviscerate is in that same boat with Breaching Strike where I tend to shield bash, they dodge it then I follow with either and hit regardless.

I think that back then with Quickness sigil it'd be overkill but given it's gone and Frenzy is the only way for Warrior to get that fun, it can be a good buff to what I often hear having low damage.

I imagine one Frenzy Stunbreak to Bullscharge/Shield Bash to Breaching or Arcing to Arcing or Breaching be doable now. That's like easily 10k in another possible way, maybe even comparable one shot record times to certain people that have no stunbreak left given the follow up of Whirlwind and such.

I'm aware of the full clunk it can be to always have targets barely surviving after optimal combos as Warrior. Back to back quickness bursts would be a good buff because it takes utility to do so like other classes.

I was gonna go on a big post about Warrior here but I shouldn't. There's a lot of things I think should be changed before we consider this, but defo give Aura Slicer some love.

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