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WvW Soul beast needs a giant nerf!


asterix.9614

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@Shroud.2307 said:

@"Kovu.7560" said:Cut down (or flat out remove) all of those multiplicative bonuses the Beastmastery and Soulbeast traitlines give to a soulbeast and buff core ranger damage. Core ranger damage is sufficiently pathetic that anything shy of bruiser-based builds is subpar in today's roaming meta.

As for Soulbeasts that press sic 'em & rapid fire... their rotation is literally the most predictable thing in the game, making even rifle deadeye look high-skill.

Druids are annoying with the roots but don't actually kill anything on their own -- unless you have literally 0 cleanses and they're allowed to ramp up those bleeds. IMO that spec needs a rework involving the reduction of immobilize applications, but whenever I bring it up Druid mains (all three of them) cry.

Also, since we're comparing lengths, 8k hours on ranger here. o/

~ Kovu

Only issue I see with that is that Soulbeast and Ranger become too similar, and they're already not very different. I think it makes sense for Soulbeast to be the high damage spec, it's just that the utility it has is superior to core as well which makes it almost a complete upgrade.

I'm happy to see most agree about the pets feeling atrocious to play with, and we all agree is about the utility brought for core and soulbeast and the point they can't stick to moving targets being the smokescale the only pet which can hit targets more or less consistently. Trying to nerf the smoke will do nothing as the pet is already barebone, it does no real damage (autos around 350 no crits) and assault i think is about 2K. Ranger definitely needs a rework of most of the pets.

If we are talking about damage multipliers i agree Soulbeast has access to many, maybe too many. I did comment once a possitive change for soulbeast would be to move the GM Oppressive Superiority to replace Furious Strength as minor. Furious strength is a almost permanent extra multiplier which works while the soulbeast is merged and while is not and that is a direct upgrade over core.In my opinion removing that and making the multipliers to be more situational (in this case only when soulbeast has more hp than the target) would diminish somehow all the accumulative multipliers. Also it would be a 7% damage nerf.

It is my opinion GMs should allow us to pick the Soulbeast skill F3 and Archetype , as that would solve all the issues with pet selection regarding the archetype skill related to them, like for example there is not Spiritual Reprieve F3 in the Moa family when that combination would be great for a support build. The same happens to Wolf the pet most used for pvp in the core days now linked to a Primal Cry (condition) when by the F2 effects (CC) would be better suited as Prelude Slash.Eternal bond can be deleted from the game it has no real uses in PvP or PVE for being very situational and underwhelming. Leader of the pack could be moved to master and Essence of Speed replace Fresh Reinforcement while Fresh Reinforcement merged with Elevated Bond.

I personally would fusion the archetypes so we end up with three: Ferocious + Deadly, Stout+Versatile and Supportive + Versatile nerfing the extra stats to 100 each so the extra stats make sense and depending on your GM you get that archetype independently of the pet. Less complications for the future as Devs can focus solely on the new pets.Also i would merge the effects: Worldly Impact + Primal Cry, Prelude Lash + Unflinching Fortitude and Spiritual Reprieve + some AoE cleanses. Normalize all the CD to 40s ( nerf to Worldly , Primal Cry and Prelude Lash) in all Soulbeast F3 skills and nerf a bit the secondary skill ( Remove the pulsing effects from primal cry but buff the amount of burst condition in that singel application , reduce the immunity to 2s in Unflinching Fortitude) .

That would make better sense with the limitation of only having one pet while in soulbeast mode, There is no point now to have so many archetypes/separated effects and it makes the class feel very clunky at times. If you go for hybrid build you can not get the right Soulbeast skills / archetype for example.

But that is just my opinion on how i would make soulbeast a more enjoyable class to play with.

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So annoying, even more that soulbeast is just pure upgrade to core.If we truly want to call it "elite spec that changes how you play the class", it should be something like this:Soulbeast loses the skills F1-F4(pet control call) and ability to merge with pet on demand and the pet itself.Their second weapon is replaced by the skills of chosen pet, meaning that Soulbeast would be only able to wield e.g. Greatsword and skills of chosen beast like Tiger or whatever.Skills F1-F4 could be something like Guardians Virtues e.g. F1 - Predator Privilege - Passive: Outgoing beast skills damage is increased by 10%. Active: Reveal in 600 range radius and increase attack speed by 15% for 6s, cd 40s.1-5 of Beast(second weapon slot) skills would be 1 standard attack set, 2-3 special pet attacks, 4-5 family pet skills.But yea, not gonna happen.

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Soulbeast is not as oppressive as they were before.

They used to threaten both melee and far ranged opponents, but after several nerfs to their kit and Worldly Impact, they can no longer combat Melee builds with high sticking power.

Just play Soulbeast against Power Herald, Core Warrior/Spellbreaker or Power Thief.

They are put into the dirt pretty easily.

The best Soulbeasts I've fought in WvW are turned into babies with any build which can stick to them in melee range, forcing them to retreat into allied structures.

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@"asterix.9614" said:I have been roaming as a soulbeast for a month now, just to see why people were complaining about it so much. Jeebus, it's op, insane ranged damage, stealth field and stealth, really good condi cleanse and heal and able to traverse very long distances with gs and bird pet. I am not requesting a nerf for druid or core however no doubt if soulbeast was nerfed core would probably be affected as well. I think when it comes to utility skill the main problem is sic em, one wolf pack and entangle. The lb skill 2 is just stupidly op and smokescale smoke field and the soulbeast skill 2 is just stupid, it's like having a pocket rev/ thief. In terms of trait I found opressive superiority to be a tad op for something that weilds a long ranged high dps long bow. Anyway, yes most of the rangers in wvw are noobs, but ranger really needs a good looking at.I know I will get hate and get good comments, I personally don't care. I have taken the time to actually play soulbeast for a whole month and I am just giving my "findings".

If you use smokescale you cannot jump away like you described. Unless you disengage and let you swap to bird. And that also resets the enemy health so what good did that do. Also condi druid with all the entangle stuff is way more annoying.

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@"asterix.9614" said:I have been roaming as a soulbeast for a month now, just to see why people were complaining about it so much. Jeebus, it's op, insane ranged damage, stealth field and stealth, really good condi cleanse and heal and able to traverse very long distances with gs and bird pet. I am not requesting a nerf for druid or core however no doubt if soulbeast was nerfed core would probably be affected as well. I think when it comes to utility skill the main problem is sic em, one wolf pack and entangle. The lb skill 2 is just stupidly op and smokescale smoke field and the soulbeast skill 2 is just stupid, it's like having a pocket rev/ thief. In terms of trait I found opressive superiority to be a tad op for something that weilds a long ranged high dps long bow. Anyway, yes most of the rangers in wvw are noobs, but ranger really needs a good looking at.I know I will get hate and get good comments, I personally don't care. I have taken the time to actually play soulbeast for a whole month and I am just giving my "findings".

the thing is, i cant disagree with u cus your right. but when i play different class and faced a soulbeast i didnt really have big problems dealing with em.yes i can understand picking off people at right spot and using terain in ur advantage etc will make ranger OP as fuck.but when facing one with a brain he will make ur life alot harder.

tbh i think SLB isnt as bad as u mention here if u face people who know how to play only thing that is insane OP is one wolf pack. this whole skill need be changed or nerfed hard.

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people, you have no excuse for dying to sicem meme rangers. you have mounts and build templates. swap to full nomads and mobility before you reach your squad. it’s literally 2 buttons. git gud.

also, just stop running around with 2300 armor, maybe? if you run THAT squishy you have 0 right to complain about being 1shot.

sicem ranger is no longer unblockable. block rapidfire and they have only melee, so kite them. now they have nothing. it’s so easy i can’t even remember the last time i died to sicem ranger.

boonbeast GS- LB is way stronger but it won’t kill you in 2s. NM variant with sw-wh is just kinda.. meh? they can’t really hurt you unless you let them. WS - BM is where it’s at. skirmish + BM with quickdraw also works but it isn’t as strong as WS. boonbeast can currently be very tanky and deal decent dmg at the same time, BUT , it has 0 mobility outside of stealth. and if you play bird, you don’t have stealth other than LB.

also i don’t really see how people are getting facerolled by noob rangers? they play like garbage. it’s not hard to beat. you are either playing too squish or they are just better than you think they are.

dolyak stance is definitely a “”problem”” if you want to nerf soulbeast, but if you do nerf soulbeast significantly we will just go back to being useless in blobs, useless in roaming, useless in pvp.

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Dolyak stance should just give protection rather than a direct damage reduction so that it doesn't stack like it does now.

OWP should not crit.

Sic'em and Attack of Opportunity should only be 10% damage modifiers for the Soulbeast.

Beyond that and you start to cut into core, but applying negative stats to the merged form based on pet archetype would go a long way in balancing Soulbeast without hurting core.

Getting 100% protection uptime on ranger is not hard btw. This is magnified on Soulbeast, and would be the one part of core that would be justified in nerfing to address Soulbeast.

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@"bigo.9037" said:people, you have no excuse for dying to sicem meme rangers. you have mounts and build templates. swap to full nomads and mobility before you reach your squad. it’s literally 2 buttons. git gud.

also, just stop running around with 2300 armor, maybe? if you run THAT squishy you have 0 right to complain about being 1shot.

sicem ranger is no longer unblockable. block rapidfire and they have only melee, so kite them. now they have nothing. it’s so easy i can’t even remember the last time i died to sicem ranger.

boonbeast GS- LB is way stronger but it won’t kill you in 2s. NM variant with sw-wh is just kinda.. meh? they can’t really hurt you unless you let them. WS - BM is where it’s at. skirmish + BM with quickdraw also works but it isn’t as strong as WS. boonbeast can currently be very tanky and deal decent dmg at the same time, BUT , it has 0 mobility outside of stealth. and if you play bird, you don’t have stealth other than LB.

also i don’t really see how people are getting facerolled by noob rangers? they play like garbage. it’s not hard to beat. you are either playing too squish or they are just better than you think they are.

dolyak stance is definitely a “”problem”” if you want to nerf soulbeast, but if you do nerf soulbeast significantly we will just go back to being useless in blobs, useless in roaming, useless in pvp.

Yes that's why the nerfs have to be very sensible at this point. It is not that the soulbeast needs more nerfs it is just there are some outliers which could become problematic if the soulbeast would get any buffs. Glass sicem soulbeast is fine compared to other glass dps builds and the only issue i see is on the tanky BM-WS build doing so much damage with Axe mainhand. There is an spot in this game for glass dps builds and we are going to have to deal with it.

I don't see Doylak problematic or unbalanced but just over bloated. The stance was fine before the buff and it didn't need more effects as it makes the Soulbeast to be forced to use that skill yes or yes (even with the nerf in sPVP with 60s CD the skill is still widely used ) .

I would move the damage reduction from Doylak to Bear and reduce the CD of dowlak to 40s in sPvP which kinda makes better sense.

Doylak is the "Counter-CC" stance, While Bear is the "Sustain" stance.And One Wolf Pack is the "Power" stance as such is fine like it is as power damage boost. Although my opinion it would be better if OWP would apply splash damage around the target up to 2 additional foes and divide the current damage between the amount of foes so they would get up 1/3 of the original damage each as a counter play and to make that elite more flexible.

On the underwhelming side we have:Moa is the "Boon" stance which means it is fine providing extra boon duration and protection/fury/regeneration. Just needs to increase boon duration 33% instead 20% in PvP and WvW as the current 20% does not feel valuable enough because the ranger has access to such short boon duration.Griffon is the "Evade" stance as such is only missing an additional stun break so it is a real option.Vulture is the "Condi" stance as such it only misses to additionally apply bleeds to be valuable.

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@bigo.9037 said:people, you have no excuse for dying to sicem meme rangers. you have mounts and build templates. swap to full nomads and mobility before you reach your squad. it’s literally 2 buttons. git gud.

also, just stop running around with 2300 armor, maybe? if you run THAT squishy you have 0 right to complain about being 1shot.

sicem ranger is no longer unblockable. block rapidfire and they have only melee, so kite them. now they have nothing. it’s so easy i can’t even remember the last time i died to sicem ranger.

boonbeast GS- LB is way stronger but it won’t kill you in 2s. NM variant with sw-wh is just kinda.. meh? they can’t really hurt you unless you let them. WS - BM is where it’s at. skirmish + BM with quickdraw also works but it isn’t as strong as WS. boonbeast can currently be very tanky and deal decent dmg at the same time, BUT , it has 0 mobility outside of stealth. and if you play bird, you don’t have stealth other than LB.

also i don’t really see how people are getting facerolled by noob rangers? they play like garbage. it’s not hard to beat. you are either playing too squish or they are just better than you think they are.

dolyak stance is definitely a “”problem”” if you want to nerf soulbeast, but if you do nerf soulbeast significantly we will just go back to being useless in blobs, useless in roaming, useless in pvp.

imagine spending 800 gems (500+300 for templates) to not get shot by a sic 'm soulbeastthat's some solid advice

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complaining about pewpew in dec 2021????Excluding the time travel, I completely agree here. I run a glassy roaming spec that relies on building Protection, and if I get one shotted (and I have!) it's b/c I wasn't paying attention. SB gimmick is at most a stunbreak and dodge away from negated. The Sic 'Em build is only for the canon campers praying for kills.

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@"melandru.3876" said:a squad weaver (that is berserker with some pieces of marauder) uses staffnot everything in wvw is a roamer, despite the fact that these "roamers" see it soThere is no "squad weaver" builds, you must be playing on some forgotten NA server with squad Weavers doing only God knows what and Support Soulbeasts instead Firebrands. Naturally you will end up doing a lot of return trips to the squad which takes us to the next point.

@"melandru.3876" said:what are the types that often get pew pew'd? players doing dailies, or people returning to squad.I don't see what has to do the build "squad weaver" with "people returning to squad" or "players doing dailies". Either way if you get pewpew'd out of your mount that is per game design as counter play to mounts that's why they have so little hp. Again what you are describing are L2P issues and asking the game to adapt to what you want instead understanding and learning the game mechanics.

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:a squad weaver (that is berserker with some pieces of marauder) uses staffnot everything in wvw is a roamer, despite the fact that these "roamers" see it soThere is no "squad weaver" builds, you must be playing on some forgotten NA server with squad Weavers doing only God knows what and Support Soulbeasts instead Firebrands. Naturally you will end up doing a lot of return trips to the squad which takes us to the next point.

@"melandru.3876" said:what are the types that often get pew pew'd? players doing dailies, or people returning to squad.I don't see what has to do the build "squad weaver" with "people returning to squad" or "players doing dailies". Either way if you get pewpew'd out of your mount that is per game design as counter play to mounts that's why they have so little hp. Again
what you are describing are L2P issues and asking the game to adapt what you want
instead understanding and learning the game mechanics.

iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)"asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffsi'm done here, it was a good laugh

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@"melandru.3876" said:iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)"asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffsI'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.Learn the difference.

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@melandru.3876 said:

@melandru.3876 said:a squad weaver (that is berserker with some pieces of marauder) uses staffnot everything in wvw is a roamer, despite the fact that these "roamers" see it soThere is no "squad weaver" builds, you must be playing on some forgotten NA server with squad Weavers doing only God knows what and Support Soulbeasts instead Firebrands. Naturally you will end up doing a lot of return trips to the squad which takes us to the next point.

@melandru.3876 said:what are the types that often get pew pew'd? players doing dailies, or people returning to squad.I don't see what has to do the build "squad weaver" with "people returning to squad" or "players doing dailies". Either way if you get pewpew'd out of your mount that is per game design as counter play to mounts that's why they have so little hp. Again
what you are describing are L2P issues and asking the game to adapt what you want
instead understanding and learning the game mechanics.

iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)"asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffsi'm done here, it was a good laugh

@melandru.3876 said:a squad weaver (that is berserker with some pieces of marauder) uses staffnot everything in wvw is a roamer, despite the fact that these "roamers" see it soThere is no "squad weaver" builds, you must be playing on some forgotten NA server with squad Weavers doing only God knows what and Support Soulbeasts instead Firebrands. Naturally you will end up doing a lot of return trips to the squad which takes us to the next point.

@melandru.3876 said:what are the types that often get pew pew'd? players doing dailies, or people returning to squad.I don't see what has to do the build "squad weaver" with "people returning to squad" or "players doing dailies". Either way if you get pewpew'd out of your mount that is per game design as counter play to mounts that's why they have so little hp. Again
what you are describing are L2P issues and asking the game to adapt what you want
instead understanding and learning the game mechanics.

iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)"asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffsi'm done here, it was a good laugh

m8 you’re playing with berserker stats and complaining about get pewpew’d.... like i said, either stop being silly enough to play zerk and not expect to get 1shot, stop running towards squad alone with no allies, or do like i said and get a second gear set for template so you can get to your squad on tankier stats and press 1 button to swap back to zerk.you seem to be the only person here who has a problem .

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)"asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffsI'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.Learn the difference.

show me where i ask for a nerfi await your quote

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Sure my pleasure.

@melandru.3876 said:because templates are obviously used for other aspectsbut no, lets force a player to hamster yet another gearset, get some extra templates to not get sniped by a soulbeast

play weaver for once instead of your soulbeast, then perhaps then we can have a decent talk

@melandru.3876 said:all "bunkers" are fine, just decap druid is bs

immobilizeimmobilizeimmobilizepoint blank shotimmobilizepoint blank shotimmobilize

i just give up the node, and take their closehttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1395580#Comment_1395580

happy now?Now i'm done with you.

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@melandru.3876 said:iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)"asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffsI'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.Learn the difference.

show me where i ask for a nerfi await your quoteSure my pleasure, the ones in the first page of the subforum.
Happy now?

o......k........?

first) i'm in none of these threadssecond) i didn't ask for a nerf, everthird) what is actually your point?

i reply to a guy which, to me, was one of the most dumbest suggestions i have ever read (who is willing to spend 800 gemsworth of templates , and a full equipmen just to return to his squad?)

it is you, soulbeast mains who band together and try to defend your class.that alone says enough

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I knew you were expecting my answer and wouldn't give me time to correct the post (i understood me asking for nerfs)There you have:

@anduriell.6280 said:Sure my pleasure.

@melandru.3876 said:because templates are obviously used for other aspects
but no, lets force a player to hamster yet another gearset, get some extra templates to not get sniped by a soulbeast

play weaver for once instead of your soulbeast, then perhaps then we can have a decent talk

@melandru.3876 said:all "bunkers" are fine, just decap druid is bs

immobilizeimmobilizeimmobilizepoint blank shotimmobilizepoint blank shotimmobilize

i just give up the node, and take their close

happy now?Now i'm done with you.

Quick search no even looking seriously.

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@anduriell.6280 said:I knew you were expecting my answer and wouldn't give me time to correct the post (i understood me asking for nerfs)There you have:

@anduriell.6280 said:Sure my pleasure.

@melandru.3876 said:because templates are obviously used for other aspects
but no, lets force a player to hamster yet another gearset, get some extra templates to not get sniped by a soulbeast

play weaver for once instead of your soulbeast, then perhaps then we can have a decent talk

@melandru.3876 said:all "bunkers" are fine, just decap druid is bs

immobilizeimmobilizeimmobilizepoint blank shotimmobilizepoint blank shotimmobilize

i just give up the node, and take their close

happy now?Now i'm done with you.

Quick search no even looking seriously.

and where do i ask for a nerf?i literally say in the same (very short) post how to outplay it. he can have our close, i'll just sit on his then and nothing changes.pvp is won by rotations and map awareness.

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@melandru.3876 said:

@melandru.3876 said:iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)"asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffsI'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.Learn the difference.

show me where i ask for a nerfi await your quoteSure my pleasure, the ones in the first page of the subforum.
Happy now?

o......k........?

first) i'm in none of these threadssecond) i didn't ask for a nerf, everthird) what is actually your point?

i reply to a guy which, to me, was one of the most dumbest suggestions i have ever read (who is willing to spend 800 gemsworth of templates , and a full equipmen just to return to his squad?)

it is you, soulbeast mains who band together and try to defend your class.that alone says enough

no dude, you’re deflecting and refusing all the advice we are giving you. as someone who has played the pewpew full zerk sicem build multiple times, swapped back and forth, ik exactly how to counter it and deal with it. stunbreak, evade, block, teleport. you’re safe.

if you already are using both templates and both of them are full zerk, excuse me but wtf are you doing??? i’m not telling you to buy new template, but if you’re not utilizing both templates and only play full zerk you really have no valid against 1shots as you’re 100% asking for it, because you can dish out just as much dmg as soulbeast, except in aoe rather than single target.

it’s just crazy to me. sicem burst used to be WAYYYYY worse and WAYYY more OP. it used to deal 40% extra dmg instead of 25%, it used be 4s unblockable every 10s. now power coefficients and flat dmg is reduced, no more unblockable, worse coefficients, 25% dmg increase. if you wanna play full friggin zerk, EXPECT to get 1shot and pewpewd.

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@bigo.9037 said:

@melandru.3876 said:iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)"asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffsI'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.Learn the difference.

show me where i ask for a nerfi await your quoteSure my pleasure, the ones in the first page of the subforum.
Happy now?

o......k........?

first) i'm in none of these threadssecond) i didn't ask for a nerf, everthird) what is actually your point?

i reply to a guy which, to me, was one of the most dumbest suggestions i have ever read (who is willing to spend 800 gemsworth of templates , and a full equipmen just to return to his squad?)

it is you, soulbeast mains who band together and try to defend your class.that alone says enough

no dude, you’re deflecting and refusing all the advice we are giving you. as someone who has played the pewpew full zerk sicem build multiple times, swapped back and forth, ik exactly how to counter it and deal with it. stunbreak, evade, block, teleport. you’re safe.

if you already are using both templates and both of them are full zerk, excuse me but kitten are you doing??? i’m not telling you to buy new template, but if you’re not utilizing both templates and only play full zerk you really have no valid against 1shots as you’re 100% asking for it, because you can dish out just as much dmg as soulbeast, except in aoe rather than single target.

it’s just crazy to me. sicem burst used to be WAYYYYY worse and WAYYY more OP. it used to deal 40% extra dmg instead of 25%, it used be 4s unblockable every 10s. now power coefficients and flat dmg is reduced, no more unblockable, worse coefficients, 25% dmg increase. if you wanna play full friggin zerk, EXPECT to get 1shot and pewpewd.

this might sound strange to you, but there are game modes outside of wvwdifferent gear, different traits you know the drill

i could however visit the bank first before i head into wvw. bank tabs are less then 800 gems so it could save me some gold. drop all my gear there then i can pick nomad stats

solid advice afterall

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