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10 reasons to remove desert map


Riba.3271

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@Sviel.7493 summed it up pretty nicely, why DBL is different to Alpine. I like the DBL a lot for roaming around and scouting for my side. It turned into my favourite map, after the removal of the lag inducing laser event (which I agree, left the central area of the map too empty for any reasonably good action).@Threather.9354 should take a look at his own poll, that gave the DBL a 33% approval, before he claims the playerbase doe snot want the DBL. :tongue:

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@"subversiontwo.7501"While I more or less follow your logic, it seems like there are some prior assumptions that maybe we don't share. As such, it feels like something is missing from your argument.

For starters, you say that "players who prefer those maps prefer them from a perspective of the biggest blobs or strongest groups not being there." Where is that coming from? It is precisely the opposite of my own experience, though I realize my personal experience doesn't speak for everyone.

Later, you reference Halloween maps. That's pretty much lost on me as I haven't ever bothered with holiday events, but mainly this line caught my attention: "A similar system for WvW could let pickups match pickups, guilds match guilds and roamers match roamers etc. " I don't understand why you want such a thing. Perhaps a server of guilds or a server of PUGs could make sense as they could encompass both zergs and roamers--but a server of nothing but roamers? How does that work? Why would roamers only want to face other roamers in WvW?

A potentially revealing remark was "the core idea of WvWvW combined with overflows is best done on an even 3-way and not on attack-defense maps." Here, it sounds like your aversion to keeping the borderlands in an idealized WvW is only because they provide uneven advantages among the teams. While I'm not totally on board there, an even 3-way map built to promote the same things as DBL (scouting, havoc, defense) would probably be cool with me. If such a map existed, I'd be open to trying a no-border concept.

If the borders were simply replaced with multiple even 3-way maps, not much would change. Assuming EBG is considered an even 3-way, these maps would still have areas of relative advantage like the 3 corners of EBG. Servers would guard their personal corners more jealously than they sought to hold enemy territory--as it is now. There would be a bit of a shift in PPT gain when everyone held their own corners, but that's it.

But, if you wish to drastically change the system, are you suggesting that matches have a dynamic number of even 3-way maps depending on population? I could see this potentially working as long as the number of maps changed based on time-of-day rather than actual population. It would be dumb if folks could game the system by just logging off en masse. I could enjoy that so long as that fictional, non-EBG 3-way map became a thing. I would not consider it worthwhile if it meant everyone had to play EBG-style WvW.

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@Gorani.7205 said:@Sviel.7493 summed it up pretty nicely, why DBL is different to Alpine. I like the DBL a lot for roaming around and scouting for my side. It turned into my favourite map, after the removal of the lag inducing laser event (which I agree, left the central area of the map too empty for any reasonably good action).@Threather.9354 should take a look at his own poll, that gave the DBL a 33% approval, before he claims the playerbase doe snot want the DBL. :tongue:

Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

His own poll disagrees with him. I love it!

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The stigma from its original release hurt it pretty bad for years. The new stigma continues to hurt it, nobody plays there because nobody plays there except for pve karma train / veteran people told me its a bad map so I think its a bad map too.

Another thing holding it down is the fact the alpine borderlands were made by a genius. And there are two of those.

Then there is the location issue. Its a desert.

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@Justine.6351 said:Another thing holding it down is the fact the alpine borderlands were made by a genius. And there are two of those.Well if DBL was made by a genius, we wouldnt be having this discussion. If they had just stuck with the border basics - DBL consisting of 3 main fighting areas where objectives threaten the nearby objectives (they could even have improved one of the flaws of ABL, that the SE tower cannot hit hills) it would been all dandy. Hell they could even have made it an ABL/EB hybrid by fully utilizing the size and adding 1 extra tower to each keep (ie sides would get 2 towers within siege range and garri would have had 3 towers). But nooooooooo... I wish it was made by a genius.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:they could even have improved one of the flaws of ABL, that the SE tower cannot hit hills) it would been all dandy.When we had three ABL, that was a perfectly balanced map design choice and no flaw, because everyone had a tower that could threaten Bay and was threatened by Hills. The flaw only manifested when DBL was introduced.Concerning DBL, I really wonder (today) whether the ruins laser tower was such a bad idea, would it have worked on a technical level (not creating huge lag on the whole map). With the Warclaw being able to deal siege damage via the chain pull, the initial barricades would not be a big problem too.

Nevertheless, DBL is a map which offers far more tactical and strategical choices for roamers and small parties and should not be downgraded to a ABL again.

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@Threather.9354 said:Replace desert with 3rd alpine map.

^^ Omg not this! We don't need even more Alpine maps in game !

I'd personally prefer it they change one of the copy-cat Alpine maps to something like: Dragonfall, Drizzlewood or even Grothmar, or a Volcanic map (quadrant of Dragonfall, Mount Maelstrom Volcanic area etc. ) Desert map does have its flaws, many points you state i agree with but the terrain is more interesting than the mundaneness of the Alpine Maps which i find very boring in their design. But this is all nothing but PIPE-DREAMS......

.....lets be realistic here this is Anet we're talking about, and am sure on forum over the years there has been many ideas for new maps but the probable chances of Anet actually putting any resources into this: Between Extremely Slim ( < 0.00001% ) and None.

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@Gorani.7205 said:Concerning DBL, I really wonder (today) whether the ruins laser tower was such a bad idea, would it have worked on a technical level (not creating huge lag on the whole map).But it did work on a technical level. And it was absolute garbage. It would still be absolute garbage today. All it did was create a cycle where you where forced to come to DBL at a certain time because if you didnt, the enemy did and reset all your objectives. There was zero defense against an organized zerg doing the event, they could have it done literally before you could spawn at garri and run to the ruins.

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Guys, the old poll doesn't matter. All it says is that highly intellectual personalities that like to discuss things on forums like desert map. Naturally if you use brain, you have more creativity in how to find your fun. Yes, sometimes desert map is playable.

But numbers don't lie, Desert map has half activity of one alpine map. There are 2 alpine maps to choose from. So it is not even half as popular as alpine map. And tbf, Id say lot of people just trolled the poll as desert map is just a widespread meme at this point.

Add to that the facts that just existance different borderlands often decides outcome of matchup against fighting servers that dislike desert map and that all its reworks have been received so badly that there is no salvaging image of it even with another rework.

Yes I am not saying 3 alpine maps and 1 EB is the perfect system, but considering the resources Anet has for WvW, it would be large improvement. Id actually prefer 5 map system with 2 EBs (with different middle castles) and 3 rotating borderlands (all sides will have same) with lower mapcaps but it wouldn't get much support as playerbase of older games always dislike changes they can't fathom.

Too many people focus too much on the non-existant negatives instead of using their cognitive capabilities towards personal experiences, is my analysis. Like reading 2 steps is too hard for some people: Yes less people will fit on the map so you will sit in queue sometimes more but commanders will also have more fun and there will be more tags and thus fights will be better on multiple maps. Most people can't even do simple reasoning, they just say "oh we have only 1 commander usually, more queues, bad idea, hurrdurr" and never get to the point that gameplay will be more enjoyable thus leading to more players and commanders.

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They can take out Desert BL and put in a water world with huge ships with massive platforms to board and fight on. Then, update the tone of that map with whatever the current or latest story or expansion came out. I like Desert and I'd like traveling if this were open world pvp but with this structure Desert is too much running for normally nothing to do or you're too late.

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my opinions:

EBG is fun with the objective hopping (being able to siege objectives from the safety of other objectives) because there are so many objectives plus mercenaries.

ALL maps should have mercenaries.

Alpine is boring because objective hopping exists when there's not enough objectives. and the northern third of the map is wasted space. there needs to be more non-PPT objectives for roamers. there also needs to be expansionesque updates to the map (like adding jump pads, portals, fast-travel shrines). even mercenaries would make the map more fun. Alpine just feels so outdated, seeing as how it's never been updated with anything that was introduced in either expansion.

Desert is my favorite map, because it offers different strategies and more ROAMING (non-PPT) objectives (shrines), though to be honest, i'd like to see more non-PPT objectives here too. even mercenaries would be cool.

i would personally prefer to either~ replace an alpine map with something new, OR~ give each team a second borderland map (so there would be EBG and 2 borderlands per side, an Alpine AND Desert to defend)

PS: i'm actually in TWO WvW guilds who prefer to run on Desert, and i'm aware of several other guilds on other servers that also prefer Desert.

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@Threather.9354 said:Guys, the old poll doesn't matter. All it says is that highly intellectual personalities that like to discuss things on forums like desert map. Naturally if you use brain, you have more creativity in how to find your fun. Yes, sometimes desert map is playable.

But numbers don't lie, Desert map has half activity of one alpine map. There are 2 alpine maps to choose from. So it is not even half as popular as alpine map. And tbf, Id say lot of people just trolled the poll as desert map is just a widespread meme at this point.

Just for fun, how are you measuring activity?

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Desert map is too big. The centre is useless, so the map becomes a donut and traveling becomes even worse than it already is because of the size.

It's still better than alpine borderlands, which is boring and has ugly 2012 visuals with eye cancer causing post processing glow effects at night.

The only really good map is EBG, which is also outdated in graphics, but has a solid design and lacks the ugly postprocessing effects.

Queues on my server (incl. linked servers) support this opinion. We 've a 20+ queue all day for EBG and not a queue at all for every other map.

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@radda.8920 said:so we have absolutely no mcm contents for years and you want to delete the only map added since the start of the gamethis community is very special sometimes....

Not relevant argument. Imagine you have a village where no one has moved into for 3 years but someone moves into and is a bad person. Of course chasing him out is natural. That is what desert map is, bad for the gamemode.

It isn't about it being most frequent thing around, that has absolutely nothing to do with it being good or bad.

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@KrHome.1920 said:Queues on my server (incl. linked servers) support this opinion. We 've a 20+ queue all day for EBG and not a queue at all for every other map.

Yea they definitely need to add another EB in the game. Maybe lower map caps a bit to remove the unplayable 60v60 fights. So if the mapcap is 70 people right now, make it 55 but add another EB, then we can fit 110 people in EBs but 15 less on each borderland.

Issue with borderlands is that they are usually 1 server vs 1 server which often becomes faceroll for one side. Whereas EB usually has activity from 3 sides. They should even look into making another neutral map if they have the resources.

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@KrHome.1920 said:Desert map is too big. The centre is useless, so the map becomes a donut and traveling becomes even worse than it already is because of the size.

It's still better than alpine borderlands, which is boring and has ugly 2012 visuals with eye cancer causing post processing glow effects at night.

The only really good map is EBG, which is also outdated in graphics, but has a solid design and lacks the ugly postprocessing effects.

Queues on my server (incl. linked servers) support this opinion. We 've a 20+ queue all day for EBG and not a queue at all for every other map.

For me it is the exact opposite. EGB is too small and cramped with objectives, so it is pretty much impossible to get a fight without getting pew pewed from a wall, have guards interfere, marked debuff on you and zergs popping out of nowhere (= from behind a wall/corner where you couldn't see them coming). And if you happen to kill someone, they are back within seconds. Also smc often leading to big 3-way fights hurts performance. Desert border is ok, not as bad as it used to be, but still a bit too tangled and unclear, making it harder to find enemies and shrine mechanics can be annoying. Alpine borders are by far my most favourite maps to play on. Not too big and not too small, good mixture of open space, more confined places and actual objectives. Oh, and water <3.

I also can't confirm your experience with queues. Queues are where the public commander(s) is/are - and that can be any map. Somestimes EBG has a queue and borders have none, sometimes it is the exact opposite. Desert borderland has a tendency to be less popular, but i can't say the same about the other borders.

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I have a better idea; why not get rid of those PLAIN JANE "alpine borderlands" maps, and make ALL borderlands, again, the desert BL maps!

Sorry, NOT sorry; when they first came out [panzies] that didn't wanna learn the new maps QQ'd so hard - and I cannot believe ANet gave in, and got us to the situation we're in now. Where we have ONE DBL and two ABL @.@

The first and best solution IMHO would be to ditch all those old ABL's and MAKE ALL THREE desert BL's... And if people don't wanna play on em, too damn bad! Next best or followup solution IMHO would be to ditch one MORE ABL, and have them design yet one more "new" map, so that ALL of the borderlands are unique...

Sorry again not sorry, I can't believe so many people slapped ANet in the face like that when they put so much time and effort into giving us a new map... All a LOT of the playerbase did was INSULT them... YET WE WONDER WHY MANY OF US FEEL THIS GAME MODE IS NEGLECTED... Would you wanna work on something so hard only to have LAZY people that don't want to bother learning new things (because they hold an advantage on maps they already know [which is what it's REALLY about and we all know it]) INSULT you!!!??? Hell no I wouldn't ~ I'd give up on ya too! Then of course these are probably the same people that turn right around and complain "WvW doesn't get [enough/any] attention"; GEE I WONDER WHY... It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that when they tried, a great percentage of the player-base insulted them and or their "work"!

"Bu bu but, the new maps are HARD mmkay"; GOOD - NEW content SHOULD be HARD/difficult/challenging...! I do not play games because they're easy... If I wanted easy mode I'd go play doom and IDDQD that ****! Games SHOULD be challenging...

Funny I just got done explaining to a friend (who has never played an MMO) about how just about ANY/EVERY MMO is MOST fun when they first launch. Because nobody has yet figured out how to "abuse" anything in it! When it's CHALLENGING to EVERYONE...! Then of course they dwindle over time because people start to abuse whatever they can! Even if it's something as simple as knowing a map like the back of their own hands!

If they REALLY wanted to spice it up, they could come out with ALL new maps every X duration (year or two or so or whatever they decided)! THAT would be really interesting! But also, a LOT of WORK!

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