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WvW Soul beast needs a giant nerf!


asterix.9614

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@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:Well, it looks a non ranger main has tried the class and provided their opinion.I watch this guy's clips cos he provides good guides / tips on playing mesmer/chrono.

Ah yes, showcasing the infamous 4 traitlines + 4 utility skills soulbeast. It is indeed op, right next to those soulbeasts who can still pet swap in combat for both "lots of stealth and lots of mobility". Also funny how the vid always clips the moment an enemy actually starts looking at him instead of being busy fighting something else.

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I dunno only thing on ranger as a hole that needs a major tune down is its immobilizing vines, not only should the significantly lower the vines hp but also the classes excess to them especially druid and its trait. Rest of the class doesn't really stand out from the rest of the roster, maybe slight adjustments here and there but definitely doesn't need giant nerfs.

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I am a diehard Core Ranger. I solo roam 95% of the time -- joining in the odd keep take/defense when it presents itself. I haven't had a problem with Sic Em SBs since the nerfs while roaming, but occasionally 1-shotted from a tower while fighting someone else. Now I understand.

I tried Sic Em Soulbeast again this morning. I one shotted anyone I got the drop on. And I was 3 shotted by anyone I didn't :sweat_smile:

This is essentially what I thought of the build coming in, that it was garbage for roaming, but great for sniping. I'll now slot Sic Em SB as my zerg build and take out anyone straying from their zerg... pew pew PEW.

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@RangerThings.9810 said:I am a diehard Core Ranger. I solo roam 95% of the time -- joining in the odd keep take/defense when it presents itself. I haven't had a problem with Sic Em SBs since the nerfs while roaming, but occasionally 1-shotted from a tower while fighting someone else. Now I understand.

I tried Sic Em Soulbeast again this morning. I one shotted anyone I got the drop on. And I was 3 shotted by anyone I didn't :sweat_smile:

This is essentially what I thought of the build coming in, that it was garbage for roaming, but great for sniping. I'll now slot Sic Em SB as my zerg build and take out anyone straying from their zerg... pew pew PEW.

And there it is. Sic'em SlB snipes anything it gets the drop on. Screw up, and you might die just like everybody else. But given the range on LB and proper awareness you can get the drop on most people even while roaming.

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We should just all switch to rangers, remove everything from keyboard except two keys.One for movement (W for example) and the other one for using Rapid Fire (by default its 2). Fancy 'pro gamers' can make macro so under key '2' you use like Sic'em, RaO, merge and then Rapid Fire.My favourite kind of gameplay, love it.

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@Widmo.3186 said:We should just all switch to rangers, remove everything from keyboard except two keys.One for movement (W for example) and the other one for using Rapid Fire (by default its 2). Fancy 'pro gamers' can make macro so under key '2' you use like Sic'em, RaO, merge and then Rapid Fire.My favourite kind of gameplay, love it.

No armor either just trinkets and weapons.Instagib mode enabled.

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@"Justine.6351" said:They should rework all skills that piggyback damage onto other skills like one wolf pack, impossible odds and virtue of justice. They went on a warpath against raw damage but didn't address these for some reason.

I personally never liked "hit on hit" skills.I liked IO back when it was Superspeed + Quickness + 10% increase damage.

But for some reason they changed IO to second strike, and suddenly all the balance problems arose, for Shiro at least.

Oh shoot, IO does so much damage together with Sword 4, but it's like, totally Sword 4's problem right?Nerf Sword 4 cast time.Oh shoot, IO does so much ranged damage with Hammer! Urgh..... REMOVE THE QUICKNESS!Nerf IO Quickness, Cost still the same.Oh shoot, IO does so much damage, even Autos can hit for max 5k per hit, but Rev is so mobile.... REMOVE SUPERSPEED, THAT WILL SOMEHOW ADDRESS THE DAMAGE PROBLEM IF WE CAN PREVENT REV FROM BEING IMMUNE TO SLOWS.

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You shouldn't be eating full rapid fire. It's a 2.5 sec cast time, we are talking seconds here. You are dying a lot in any pvp game if your response time is measured in seconds.They are very potent when they jump you unaware, already in combat and without CDs but that is then not a 1v1 situation. That same ranger dies to anything if the situation is turned.

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If Soulbeast is that OP and require low effort to play then just jump on a Soulbeast and quit whatever you are playing, there is more than 1 character slot for a reason, btw Soulbeast is a dueling class like Thief, dueling class is designed to kill other classes in 1vs1 but would fare terribly for supporting or zerg play, would you rather have a Tempest to provide auras for 10 men in a zerg or a selfish Soulbeast? there is no such thing as balance in this game, its all about unique roles each class can fit in, Thieves and Soulbeasts are supposed to be oppressive to pick off single targets, if you play a class called "ranger" and can't kill anything from range what is the point of the class existing at all? Soulbeasts opted in for damage are extremely easy to kill, they dont have much condi cleanse, their burst is easily predictable, can be negated with passive traits that give evade, block, immune to crit or physical damage when below 50% health or just stealth , teleport out of range, line of sight. I guess a balanced Soulbeast is a Soulbeast deals only 10% of my health with Rapid Fire and One Wolf Pack when I run full berserker gear and this game can only be truly balanced when I can just kill any dueling classes on a supporting class?

Seagulls can fly, lions have big fangs and claws, nature is not balanced, seagulls should have fangs and bigger claws and as big as a lion and can kill lions, wolves, elephants, giraffes, rhinos, now that is what I call balance.?

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RangerThings.9810 said:I am a diehard Core Ranger. I solo roam 95% of the time -- joining in the odd keep take/defense when it presents itself. I haven't had a problem with Sic Em SBs since the nerfs while roaming, but occasionally 1-shotted from a tower while fighting someone else. Now I understand.

I tried Sic Em Soulbeast again this morning. I one shotted anyone I got the drop on. And I was 3 shotted by anyone I didn't :sweat_smile:

This is essentially what I thought of the build coming in, that it was garbage for roaming, but great for sniping. I'll now slot Sic Em SB as my zerg build and take out anyone straying from their zerg... pew pew PEW.

And there it is. Sic'em SlB snipes anything it gets the drop on. Screw up, and you might die just like everybody else. But given the range on LB and proper awareness you can get the drop on most people even while roaming.

So D/D signet thief of old, except with less risk, miles easier to play for efficacy, and way more viability across the board.

Which is a build that also got gutted for dealing too much damage, and lost most of its modifiers despite having literally zero condition cleanses, no sustain, no protection, and no stunbreak or stability (yes, literally play perfectly or die), objectively lower mobility than GS on ranger, and depended entirely on landing a single hit (negated by aegis or weakness) and otherwise having no way to survive after just one attack on one target.

It's not about damage but reliability of damage and how friendly the class is at not dying.

As I mentioned in a different thread about SB, I have no issue with it having damage, but currently, RF+RoA does over 10k damage even when double-dodged. No skill in the game otherwise offers that much reliable damage, let along at range.

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@Cuks.8241 said:You shouldn't be eating full rapid fire. It's a 2.5 sec cast time, we are talking seconds here. You are dying a lot in any pvp game if your response time is measured in seconds.They are very potent when they jump you unaware, already in combat and without CDs but that is then not a 1v1 situation. That same ranger dies to anything if the situation is turned.

That's why people are dying lol.You only get 1.5s of dodges.

RoA+RF at 2k/hit base and 3k RoA procs double dodged is 4 hits + 2 RoA procs.

This is 14k damage even with perfect reaction time lol. It's actually easier to not die to when it gets QZ'ed and rangers who use it are outplaying themselves which seems to be a mentality I find here frequently...

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The amount of denial here is so unreal, lmao.

It's not wanted in zergsJust dodge

This is the tldr of what many have written in defense of their opinion. Very little reasonable thoughts on ways to change and improve the state of SlB has been made.

Some of you really need to learn to look at things objectively when having these discussions instead of acting like balance requests are a personal attack.It's so weird how often the same names will defend Ranger as being a valuable addition to a zerg, but will defend imbalances with being unwanted.

Nerfs don't mean there's no room for buffs. I think a lot of people are just afraid that even if SlB is still effective at what it does, changes that make it harder for them will be unfair.Something being difficult to use isn't unfair so long as it's rewarding in what it does.Or to explain it in another way-Heavily outplaying someone and putting in ten times the effort is difficult, not rewarding.Putting in the same amount of effort and making the proper decisions to outplay someone is both difficult and rewarding.

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@Shroud.2307 said:The amount of denial here is so unreal, lmao.

It's not wanted in zergsJust dodge

This is the tldr of what many have written in defense of their opinion. Very little reasonable thoughts on ways to change and improve the state of SlB has been made.

Some of you really need to learn to look at things objectively when having these discussions instead of acting like balance requests are a personal attack.It's so weird how often the same names will defend Ranger as being a valuable addition to a zerg, but will defend imbalances with being unwanted.

Nerfs don't mean there's no room for buffs. I think a lot of people are just afraid that even if SlB is still effective at what it does, changes that make it harder for them will be unfair.Something being difficult to use isn't unfair so long as it's rewarding in what it does.Or to explain it in another way-Heavily outplaying someone and putting in ten times the effort is difficult, not rewarding.Putting in the same amount of effort and making the proper decisions to outplay someone is both difficult and rewarding.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120846/wvw-shadeless-build

“This build is all about extreme aggression and oppressive damage, similar to Reaper. With various ways to CC, and a metric ton of Torment, this build will absolutely shred anything it touches, even those highly resistant to Conditions.”

“I enjoy seeing 3, 4, or 5k Torment ticks on top of 2k Terrors, lol.”

“Thief and Rev are the only things I struggle against with this build. Everything else is an easy win if I play right.”

“Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104151/thief-is-totally-broken-now

@Shroud.2307 said:I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.

I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.

Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

@Shroud.2307 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.

I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.

Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

The backstabs I can see happening, but the shadow shot damage is surprising haha. Makes me wonder what the other guy was running xD

Agreed...I don’t run any toughness so I sometimes take big hits and 15k is...rng perfect.

I've dealt 8-9k shadow shots pretty happily before the feb patch, just trying to think how you would get 15k. I do hope that is an outlier, as that kind of damage plus the utility already in shadow shot would be insanely OP if it were in any way reliable.

I can tell you exactly what happened because it was just today.

We had a zerg attacking Aldon's in EBG. A few people were near the spawn side of green keep attacking players and soon retreated back to our zerg at Aldons. One player was left behind so I ran toward him to cover for him when I noticed a Scourge on the cliff edge next to the keep gate. I 5 -> 2 stealthed, stole to him and backstabbed. I don't recall if I had extra Might on me, but the target definitely didn't have Vulnerability, I wasn't using Assassin's Signet and I didn't have 25 Bloodlust.

I've been playing Thief regularly for a few days now and it's not uncommon for me to be seeing 10 - 12k Heartseekers and 8 - 10k Shadow Shots. Mind you, that damage is
drastically
reduced on certain targets. Tanky Necros, Boonbeasts, condi Revs, etc. I'm hitting like... 3k Backstabs tops, lol.

So melting players in 0.5 seconds with AoEs is ok. You don’t really have issues fighting Rangers, just Thief and Rev. You think hitting people with 15k Shadow Shots (which happened to be in the old screenshot) and 10-12k heartseekers is ok… But when a Ranger player complains about Necro, these are your thoughts and advice.

“Longbow + GS is still perfectly viable, as is Boonbeast. It just isn't a complete faceroll "I win" build anymore and actually has some unfavorable match ups unlike pre-February. Like I'd said, the patch forced a lot of builds (this encompasses all classes and specs) to choose between survivability and damage. You might do less damage than before and have a few bad match ups with Boonbeast now, but it doesn't mean Necro is OP nor does it mean Boonbeast is bad. It just means you actually have to learn to play the game now...”

“No point for anyone here to keep responding to the OP. They don't want to learn, they just want Necro nerfed. Let them cry instead of improving if that's what they want to do. Waste of time trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.”

But yes, players aren’t being objective here and we need to nerf ranger.

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soulbeast doesnt need anymore nerfs period, they need least some buffs to give em a fighting chance. id say revert the 2 traits that got nerfed in the beastmastery traitline back to what they were or buff em up slightly so rangers can at least sustain better. oh and revert the second skin trait for pvp with the condi meta they need more sustain. Plus give em back their stunbreak on beastmode. least th ey can survive better. And quit hating on rangers, what bout burn guard which hasnt had a nerf like at all, what bout other classes that do need nerfs. mesmer doesnt need anymore nerfs and the nerf to resist on corruption trait line for rev should also be reverted for pvp. 1sec duration less its a pulse is like totally pathetic.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:The amount of denial here is so unreal, lmao.

It's not wanted in zergsJust dodge

This is the tldr of what many have written in defense of their opinion. Very little reasonable thoughts on ways to change and improve the state of SlB has been made.

Some of you really need to learn to look at things objectively when having these discussions instead of acting like balance requests are a personal attack.It's so weird how often the same names will defend Ranger as being a valuable addition to a zerg, but will defend imbalances with being unwanted.

Nerfs don't mean there's no room for buffs. I think a lot of people are just afraid that even if SlB is still effective at what it does, changes that make it harder for them will be unfair.Something being difficult to use isn't unfair so long as it's rewarding in what it does.Or to explain it in another way-Heavily outplaying someone and putting in ten times the effort is difficult, not rewarding.Putting in the same amount of effort and making the proper decisions to outplay someone is both difficult
and
rewarding.

“This build is all about extreme aggression and oppressive damage, similar to Reaper. With various ways to CC, and a metric ton of Torment, this build will absolutely shred anything it touches, even those highly resistant to Conditions.”

“I enjoy seeing 3, 4, or 5k Torment ticks on top of 2k Terrors, lol.”

“Thief and Rev are the only things I struggle against with this build. Everything else is an easy win if I play right.”

“Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”

@Shroud.2307 said:I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.

I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.

Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.

I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.

Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

The backstabs I can see happening, but the shadow shot damage is surprising haha. Makes me wonder what the other guy was running xD

Agreed...I don’t run any toughness so I sometimes take big hits and 15k is...rng perfect.

I've dealt 8-9k shadow shots pretty happily before the feb patch, just trying to think how you would get 15k. I do hope that is an outlier, as that kind of damage plus the utility already in shadow shot would be insanely OP if it were in any way reliable.

I can tell you exactly what happened because it was just today.

We had a zerg attacking Aldon's in EBG. A few people were near the spawn side of green keep attacking players and soon retreated back to our zerg at Aldons. One player was left behind so I ran toward him to cover for him when I noticed a Scourge on the cliff edge next to the keep gate. I 5 -> 2 stealthed, stole to him and backstabbed. I don't recall if I had extra Might on me, but the target definitely didn't have Vulnerability, I wasn't using Assassin's Signet and I didn't have 25 Bloodlust.

I've been playing Thief regularly for a few days now and it's not uncommon for me to be seeing 10 - 12k Heartseekers and 8 - 10k Shadow Shots. Mind you, that damage is
drastically
reduced on certain targets. Tanky Necros, Boonbeasts, condi Revs, etc. I'm hitting like... 3k Backstabs tops, lol.

So melting players in 0.5 seconds with AoEs is ok. You don’t really have issues fighting Rangers, just Thief and Rev. You think hitting people with 15k Shadow Shots (which happened to be in the old screenshot) and 10-12k heartseekers is ok… But when a Ranger player complains about Necro, these are your thoughts and advice.

“Longbow + GS is still perfectly viable, as is Boonbeast. It just isn't a complete faceroll "I win" build anymore and actually has some unfavorable match ups unlike pre-February. Like I'd said, the patch forced a lot of builds (this encompasses all classes and specs) to choose between survivability and damage. You might do less damage than before and have a few bad match ups with Boonbeast now, but it doesn't mean Necro is OP nor does it mean Boonbeast is bad. It just means you actually have to learn to play the game now...”

“No point for anyone here to keep responding to the OP. They don't want to learn, they just want Necro nerfed. Let them cry instead of improving if that's what they want to do. Waste of time trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.”

But yes, players aren’t being objective here and we need to nerf ranger.

Swagger getting viscous digging into post histories lol.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:The amount of denial here is so unreal, lmao.

It's not wanted in zergsJust dodge

This is the tldr of what many have written in defense of their opinion. Very little reasonable thoughts on ways to change and improve the state of SlB has been made.

Some of you really need to learn to look at things objectively when having these discussions instead of acting like balance requests are a personal attack.It's so weird how often the same names will defend Ranger as being a valuable addition to a zerg, but will defend imbalances with being unwanted.

Nerfs don't mean there's no room for buffs. I think a lot of people are just afraid that even if SlB is still effective at what it does, changes that make it harder for them will be unfair.Something being difficult to use isn't unfair so long as it's rewarding in what it does.Or to explain it in another way-Heavily outplaying someone and putting in ten times the effort is difficult, not rewarding.Putting in the same amount of effort and making the proper decisions to outplay someone is both difficult
and
rewarding.

“This build is all about extreme aggression and oppressive damage, similar to Reaper. With various ways to CC, and a metric ton of Torment, this build will absolutely shred anything it touches, even those highly resistant to Conditions.”

“I enjoy seeing 3, 4, or 5k Torment ticks on top of 2k Terrors, lol.”

“Thief and Rev are the only things I struggle against with this build. Everything else is an easy win if I play right.”

“Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”

@Shroud.2307 said:I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.

I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.

Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.

I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.

Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

The backstabs I can see happening, but the shadow shot damage is surprising haha. Makes me wonder what the other guy was running xD

Agreed...I don’t run any toughness so I sometimes take big hits and 15k is...rng perfect.

I've dealt 8-9k shadow shots pretty happily before the feb patch, just trying to think how you would get 15k. I do hope that is an outlier, as that kind of damage plus the utility already in shadow shot would be insanely OP if it were in any way reliable.

I can tell you exactly what happened because it was just today.

We had a zerg attacking Aldon's in EBG. A few people were near the spawn side of green keep attacking players and soon retreated back to our zerg at Aldons. One player was left behind so I ran toward him to cover for him when I noticed a Scourge on the cliff edge next to the keep gate. I 5 -> 2 stealthed, stole to him and backstabbed. I don't recall if I had extra Might on me, but the target definitely didn't have Vulnerability, I wasn't using Assassin's Signet and I didn't have 25 Bloodlust.

I've been playing Thief regularly for a few days now and it's not uncommon for me to be seeing 10 - 12k Heartseekers and 8 - 10k Shadow Shots. Mind you, that damage is
drastically
reduced on certain targets. Tanky Necros, Boonbeasts, condi Revs, etc. I'm hitting like... 3k Backstabs tops, lol.

So melting players in 0.5 seconds with AoEs is ok. You don’t really have issues fighting Rangers, just Thief and Rev. You think hitting people with 15k Shadow Shots (which happened to be in the old screenshot) and 10-12k heartseekers is ok… But when a Ranger player complains about Necro, these are your thoughts and advice.

“Longbow + GS is still perfectly viable, as is Boonbeast. It just isn't a complete faceroll "I win" build anymore and actually has some unfavorable match ups unlike pre-February. Like I'd said, the patch forced a lot of builds (this encompasses all classes and specs) to choose between survivability and damage. You might do less damage than before and have a few bad match ups with Boonbeast now, but it doesn't mean Necro is OP nor does it mean Boonbeast is bad. It just means you actually have to learn to play the game now...”

“No point for anyone here to keep responding to the OP. They don't want to learn, they just want Necro nerfed. Let them cry instead of improving if that's what they want to do. Waste of time trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.”

But yes, players aren’t being objective here and we need to nerf ranger.

Swagger getting viscous digging into post histories lol.

Be mindful what you say because it could come back to bite you in the ass someday :p

! Please don't look in my post history :#

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@"Swagger.1459" said:-snip-

Thanks for that walk down memory lane. I've got nothing to add because you've made no arguments, you're just trying to put me in a bad light to appeal to your narrative.

If you're going to dig through post history and get personal because you disagree with me, I'm not going to give you any attention other than what I'm saying here. This is like if someone were to say "no, I don't like Game of Thrones", and then you go through their Facebook status history to patch together what ever evidence you can find to prove otherwise. It's just yikes.

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Shrugs, if someone is trying that hard to win an internet argument, they could probably be like playing the game or something.

I have died because I was posting on these forums a few times lol

Anyhow, what kind of fallacy is it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial Maybe? I dunno. Think it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Person A makes claim X.

Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.Therefore, X is false.

But fallacy or not, it's pretty creepy.

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@Justine.6351 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:The amount of denial here is so unreal, lmao.

It's not wanted in zergsJust dodge

This is the tldr of what many have written in defense of their opinion. Very little reasonable thoughts on ways to change and improve the state of SlB has been made.

Some of you really need to learn to look at things objectively when having these discussions instead of acting like balance requests are a personal attack.It's so weird how often the same names will defend Ranger as being a valuable addition to a zerg, but will defend imbalances with being unwanted.

Nerfs don't mean there's no room for buffs. I think a lot of people are just afraid that even if SlB is still effective at what it does, changes that make it harder for them will be unfair.Something being difficult to use isn't unfair so long as it's rewarding in what it does.Or to explain it in another way-Heavily outplaying someone and putting in ten times the effort is difficult, not rewarding.Putting in the same amount of effort and making the proper decisions to outplay someone is both difficult
and
rewarding.

“This build is all about extreme aggression and oppressive damage, similar to Reaper. With various ways to CC, and a metric ton of Torment, this build will absolutely shred anything it touches, even those highly resistant to Conditions.”

“I enjoy seeing 3, 4, or 5k Torment ticks on top of 2k Terrors, lol.”

“Thief and Rev are the only things I struggle against with this build. Everything else is an easy win if I play right.”

“Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”

@Shroud.2307 said:I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.

I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.

Ee5ceM9.jpgHUvG4Oe.jpg

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.

I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.

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The backstabs I can see happening, but the shadow shot damage is surprising haha. Makes me wonder what the other guy was running xD

Agreed...I don’t run any toughness so I sometimes take big hits and 15k is...rng perfect.

I've dealt 8-9k shadow shots pretty happily before the feb patch, just trying to think how you would get 15k. I do hope that is an outlier, as that kind of damage plus the utility already in shadow shot would be insanely OP if it were in any way reliable.

I can tell you exactly what happened because it was just today.

We had a zerg attacking Aldon's in EBG. A few people were near the spawn side of green keep attacking players and soon retreated back to our zerg at Aldons. One player was left behind so I ran toward him to cover for him when I noticed a Scourge on the cliff edge next to the keep gate. I 5 -> 2 stealthed, stole to him and backstabbed. I don't recall if I had extra Might on me, but the target definitely didn't have Vulnerability, I wasn't using Assassin's Signet and I didn't have 25 Bloodlust.

I've been playing Thief regularly for a few days now and it's not uncommon for me to be seeing 10 - 12k Heartseekers and 8 - 10k Shadow Shots. Mind you, that damage is
drastically
reduced on certain targets. Tanky Necros, Boonbeasts, condi Revs, etc. I'm hitting like... 3k Backstabs tops, lol.

So melting players in 0.5 seconds with AoEs is ok. You don’t really have issues fighting Rangers, just Thief and Rev. You think hitting people with 15k Shadow Shots (which happened to be in the old screenshot) and 10-12k heartseekers is ok… But when a Ranger player complains about Necro, these are your thoughts and advice.

“Longbow + GS is still perfectly viable, as is Boonbeast. It just isn't a complete faceroll "I win" build anymore and actually has some unfavorable match ups unlike pre-February. Like I'd said, the patch forced a lot of builds (this encompasses all classes and specs) to choose between survivability and damage. You might do less damage than before and have a few bad match ups with Boonbeast now, but it doesn't mean Necro is OP nor does it mean Boonbeast is bad. It just means you actually have to learn to play the game now...”

“No point for anyone here to keep responding to the OP. They don't want to learn, they just want Necro nerfed. Let them cry instead of improving if that's what they want to do. Waste of time trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.”

But yes, players aren’t being objective here and we need to nerf ranger.

Swagger getting viscous digging into post histories lol.

Be mindful what you say because it could come back to bite you in the kitten someday :p

! Please don't look in my post history :#

:lol: Hey I try to be consistent! Are there things on CORE ranger that need tweaking? Sure, but there are also things on Soulbeast that need tweaking in the other direction. Most of the problems with Soulbeast have to do with being counted as the pet along with the sheer number of numerical buffs that come along with that fact. That and OWP needs to not crit (fwiw it will still do a lot of damage on a glass build, just not memetastic levels of damage). I've put my two copper into the discussion on what I feel needs to be toned down based on my playing with it in WvW and ganking people in rather unfair ways from unfair distances from relative safety. Things like that should not exist are are rightfully called out as toxic.

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@Shroud.2307 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:-snip-

Thanks for that walk down memory lane. I've got nothing to add because you've made no arguments, you're just trying to put me in a bad light to appeal to your narrative.

If you're going to dig through post history and get personal because you disagree with me, I'm not going to give you any attention other than what I'm saying here. This is like if someone were to say "no, I don't like Game of Thrones", and then you go through their Facebook status history to patch together what ever evidence you can find to prove otherwise. It's just yikes.

To ranger defenders…

“The amount of denial here is so unreal, lmao.It's not wanted in zergsJust dodge”

To ranger player complaining about Necro…

“It just means you actually have to learn to play the game now...”

“No point for anyone here to keep responding to the OP. They don't want to learn, they just want Necro nerfed. Let them cry instead of improving if that's what they want to do. Waste of time trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.”

To ranger defenders…

“Very little reasonable thoughts on ways to change and improve the state of SlB has been made.”

“Something being difficult to use isn't unfair so long as it's rewarding in what it does.Or to explain it in another way-Heavily outplaying someone and putting in ten times the effort is difficult, not rewarding.Putting in the same amount of effort and making the proper decisions to outplay someone is both difficult and rewarding.”

Sharing your Necro build comments…

“this build will absolutely shred anything it touches, even those highly resistant to Conditions.”

And

“Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”

Thief thoughts…

“I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint” with screens of a 15k Shadow Shot.

And

“the target definitely didn't have Vulnerability, I wasn't using Assassin's Signet and I didn't have 25 Bloodlust." and "I've been playing Thief regularly for a few days now and it's not uncommon for me to be seeing 10 - 12k Heartseekers and 8 - 10k Shadow Shots.”

All that and you tell a ranger player “l2p”. You find melting people easily with a couple presses of buttons ok when you do it… but when a ranger player presses some buttons and melts someone, it’s problematic to you and accuse ranger defenders of not being objective, afraid of balance, and afraid of changes that make ranger players put in some effort... “Putting in the same amount of effort and making the proper decisions to outplay someone is both difficult and rewarding.”…

So, when you mention "effort" that the devs need to impose on ranger through changes, are we taking about the same level of effort that it takes for your necro to melt players "in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”? Or the 1 button 15k Shadow Shot and 10-12k heartseeker levels of effort, where a player doesn't even need to have "Assassin's Signet and I didn't have 25 Bloodlust" and "I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits."?

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@"ArchonWing.9480" said:Shrugs, if someone is trying that hard to win an internet argument, they could probably be like playing the game or something.

I have died because I was posting on these forums a few times lol

Anyhow, what kind of fallacy is it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial Maybe? I dunno. Think it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Person A makes claim X.

Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.Therefore, X is false.

But fallacy or not, it's pretty creepy.

I'm not going to pretend I don't contradict myself at times, I don't keep track of everything I say, and my opinions change. But taking things out of context and comparing apples to oranges is hardly an argument, especially when it's framed like an attack.

I'm flattered someone took the time to read through so much of my history though.

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So you bring up a bunch of comments about him speaking about things dealing lots of damage.

His argument is that ranger deals lots of damage, very safely.

Perhaps do some more post digging figure out how to handle that other 50% of his argument? He even lists cons about how easily his necro build dies to certain things.

Also as an aside, TIL Shadowshot did not get its damage reduced in the feb balance pass. A 1.3 damage modifier on no CD blind+blink is honestly crazy given what most skills do.

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@Shroud.2307 said:

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:Shrugs, if someone is trying that hard to win an internet argument, they could probably be like playing the game or something.

I have died because I was posting on these forums a few times lol

Anyhow, what kind of fallacy is it?
Maybe? I dunno. Think it's
Person A makes claim X.

Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.Therefore, X is false.

But fallacy or not, it's pretty creepy.

I'm not going to pretend I don't contradict myself at times, I don't keep track of everything I say, and my opinions change. But taking things out of context and comparing apples to oranges is hardly an argument, especially when it's framed like an attack.

I'm flattered someone took the time to read through so much of my history though.

I mean, that's the point. Whether or not you contradict yourself in previous posts is irrelevant. People's opinions can change over time.

I am curious on who keeps tabs on my post history. I know it's a common behavior on Reddit, but not sure in other parts.

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So you bring up a bunch of comments about him speaking about things dealing lots of damage.

His argument is that ranger deals lots of damage, very safely.

Perhaps do some more post digging figure out how to handle that other 50% of his argument? He even lists cons about how easily his necro build dies to certain things.

Also as an aside, TIL Shadowshot did not get its damage reduced in the feb balance pass. A 1.3 damage modifier on no CD blind+blink is honestly crazy given what most skills do.

It's the only thing really carrying thief rn for its power builds.

But yeah the skill has been busted for a long time (see: my complaints since 2013) and one of the major reasons why D/P is actually any good at all. I can confidently say if they swapped it with Death Blossom D/P would be considered substantially weaker in raw combat than D/D, even when factoring in its access to OOC and stacked stealth.

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