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Can you prove with video thief is strong, not the pro streamer, but YOUR video?


lightstalker.1498

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@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

Actually, it proves the thief should NEVER die to a mirage. It shows how hard it is to make contact with the DD due to crazy high mobility and infinite reset thanks to its access to stealth combined with slow ass clones.

For example: If the DD chose to leave the Mirage (me) wouldn't have enough mobility to catch it, nor would the Mirage be able to run away once the fight has started. I have two options, fight the DD or run to the camp and hope the NPCs took care of it for me.

With blink's 35 second cool-down and the fact that its also one of two stun-breaks being used its not like the Mirage can actually close on the DD unless the DD keeps coming back to try and kill the Mirage. Meanwhile, the DD has MORE than enough damage available to kill a Mirage many times over. Additionally, if the Mirage attempts to chase and close on the DD the Mirage its forced to use Blink (1 of 2 stun-breaks) and jaunt (loss of burst damage and clone generation), which then leaves the Mirage basically without jack shit to use if the DD decides to turn and kill the mirage after a short run. Likewise, if the Mirage tries to run it is forced to use Blink and also its other stun-break if it wants stealth and again IF the DD Chooses it can easily chase down the Mirage and kill once those are used up with little to no risk. Again, DD ALWAYS has the advantage and should NEVER lose this match-up PERIOD!

The only reason they didn't kill me is they got sloppy, both times. I would guess the reason the DD got sloppy (kept attacking without much care) was they are used to face-rolling over the average CMirage (how ever skills are activated), for example, moving away enough to make my clones melt, then coming back each time (they let me maintain my clones, which is rare/sloppy)

Also as to using mouse to skill click, yes I do esp on Mirage you have to use mouse for jaunt and blink constantly. Additionally, unlike Thief I have to actually face my target for most of my attacks to work (ambush wont work for instance) so I don't see much point in doing it any other way. I have always played vanilla and I never claim to be a super pro gamer bro type of player so what ever dude.

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

Actually, it proves the thief should NEVER die to a mirage. It shows how hard it is to make contact with the DD due to crazy high mobility and infinite reset thanks to its access to stealth combined with slow kitten clones.

I mean, if the thief runs away? Sure. But thats what I said. At best the thief just runs away and doesnt get a kill. At worst he dies before he can do so. Thats not a winning proposition.

For example: If the DD chose to leave the Mirage (me) wouldn't have enough mobility to catch it, nor would the Mirage be able to run away once the fight has started. I have two options, fight the DD or run to the camp and hope the NPCs took care of it for me.

Slightly incorrect. You have 2 options. Indeed. They are "the thief stays and you kill him", and "the thief runs away and no one dies". There is no option in which you die.

With blink's 35 second cool-down and the fact that its also one of two stun-breaks being used its not like the Mirage can actually close on the DD unless the DD keeps coming back to try and kill the Mirage. Meanwhile, the DD has MORE than enough damage available to kill a Mirage many times over. Additionally, if the Mirage attempts to chase and close on the DD the Mirage its forced to use Blink (1 of 2 stun-breaks) and jaunt (loss of burst damage and clone generation), which then leaves the Mirage basically without jack kitten to use if the DD decides to turn and kill the mirage after a short run. Likewise, if the Mirage tries to run it is forced to use Blink and also its other stun-break if it wants stealth and again IF the DD Chooses it can easily chase down the Mirage and kill once those are used up with little to no risk. Again, DD ALWAYS has the advantage and should NEVER lose this match-up PERIOD!

Yeah we saw that DD having more than enough damage available to kill you. Or rather what we saw was them barely scratching you and certainly not being to kill you once, let alone "many times over". What we saw is that if the thief wanted to do enough damage to at least put a dent in you, they die. If they run away before dying then you didnt take nearly enough damage to even be threatened. This is a matchup that Mirage cannot lose. He usually wont win either unless the thief wants to stick around and fight, but lose he will not.

The only reason they didn't kill me is they got sloppy, both times. I would guess the reason the DD got sloppy/kept attacking without much care was they are used to face-rolling over the average CMirage (how ever skills are activated), for example, moving away enough to make my clones melt, then coming back each time (they let me maintain my clones, which is rare/sloppy)

Uh, no. Even with you playing inefficiently, the reason they didn't kill you is because they couldn't. You could see that their damage was just more than insufficient. The reason they died despite you playing super inefficient is because they got sloppy, but the only other outcome is that they ran away and you lived for free. Them killing you would never happen.

Also as to using mouse to skill click, yes I do esp on Mirage you have to use mouse for jaunt and blink constantly. Additionally, unlike Thief I have to actually face my target for most of my attacks to work (ambush wont work for instance) so I don't see much point in doing it any other way. I have always played vanilla and I never claim to be a super pro gamer bro type of player so what ever dude.

No you dont? Its super inefficient compared to just using regular inputs. And you think Thief doesnt have to constantly keep its camera in mind, despite having you know, backstab, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder? Like damn, I knew you didnt know thief but still.

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@darren.1064 said:kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild.

The only video shown so far is a backpeddling, skill clicking, AI abusing mesmer that is complaining about thief 2k backstab. I'm actually stunned that this person thought it was a good idea to link that video.

The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be.

The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer.

Anyway, i've long since dropped this game...it only makes me super toxic and i hate feeling that way.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

Actually, it proves the thief should NEVER die to a mirage. It shows how hard it is to make contact with the DD due to crazy high mobility and infinite reset thanks to its access to stealth combined with slow kitten clones.

I mean, if the thief runs away? Sure. But thats what I said. At best the thief just runs away and doesnt get a kill. At worst he dies before he can do so. Thats not a winning proposition.

For example: If the DD chose to leave the Mirage (me) wouldn't have enough mobility to catch it, nor would the Mirage be able to run away once the fight has started. I have two options, fight the DD or run to the camp and hope the NPCs took care of it for me.

Slightly incorrect. You have 2 options. Indeed. They are "the thief stays and you kill him", and "the thief runs away and no one dies". There is no option in which you die.

With blink's 35 second cool-down and the fact that its also one of two stun-breaks being used its not like the Mirage can actually close on the DD unless the DD keeps coming back to try and kill the Mirage. Meanwhile, the DD has MORE than enough damage available to kill a Mirage many times over. Additionally, if the Mirage attempts to chase and close on the DD the Mirage its forced to use Blink (1 of 2 stun-breaks) and jaunt (loss of burst damage and clone generation), which then leaves the Mirage basically without jack kitten to use if the DD decides to turn and kill the mirage after a short run. Likewise, if the Mirage tries to run it is forced to use Blink and also its other stun-break if it wants stealth and again
IF the DD Chooses
it can easily chase down the Mirage and kill once those are used up with little to no risk. Again, DD ALWAYS has the advantage and should NEVER lose this match-up PERIOD!

Yeah we saw that DD having more than enough damage available to kill you. Or rather what we saw was them barely scratching you and certainly not being to kill you once, let alone "many times over". What we saw is that if the thief wanted to do enough damage to at least put a dent in you, they die. If they run away before dying then you didnt take nearly enough damage to even be threatened. This is a matchup that Mirage cannot lose. He usually wont win either unless the thief wants to stick around and fight, but lose he will not.

The only reason they didn't kill me is they got sloppy, both times. I would guess the reason the DD got sloppy/kept attacking without much care was they are used to face-rolling over the average CMirage (how ever skills are activated), for example, moving away enough to make my clones melt, then coming back each time (they let me maintain my clones, which is rare/sloppy)

Uh, no. Even with you playing inefficiently, the reason they didn't kill you is because they couldn't. You could see that their damage was just more than insufficient. The reason they died despite you playing super inefficient is because they got sloppy, but the only other outcome is that they ran away and you lived for free. Them killing you would never happen.

Also as to using mouse to skill click, yes I do esp on Mirage you have to use mouse for jaunt and blink constantly. Additionally, unlike Thief I have to actually face my target for most of my attacks to work (ambush wont work for instance) so I don't see much point in doing it any other way. I have always played vanilla and I never claim to be a
super pro gamer bro
type of player so what ever dude.

No you dont? Its super inefficient compared to just using regular inputs. And you think Thief doesnt have to constantly keep its camera in mind, despite having you know,
backstab
, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder? Like kitten, I knew you didnt know thief but still.

Also to be clear. When I posted that I wasn't actually trying to say thief is OP in pvp specifically or that it has no counter or anything, infinite reset is much more useful in wvw and they have access to a wider range of stats that help them get kills very effectively when roaming, with little risk thanks to the ability to reset continually on a number of builds not just DD d/p.

I was more posting this after reading:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP?Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC.

PvP? No such thing.If Thief can't pull off their burst on yu, they have to run away and at that point they lost due to losing point control.

...and was attempting to agree that in WvW thief is very strong thanks to things like reset potential. I wasn't actually trying to say Thief is crazy OP. I think one dodge is rather under powered and the fact that I think DD d/p thief should be able to own cmirage typically doesn't imply that thief is OP.

I am trying to agree that they have crazy amounts of stealth and mobility that gives them often infinite reset potential. I would say DE is arguably better at the stealth, burst, reset, repeat thing in more safety in wvw. Thief is hella common around in wvw still more so than Mirage for sure.

"backstab, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder?" yep why do you think I kept trying to move my back around and throw up refelctions + cripple for.

Lets face it I'm just talking about the OPs thread and you are just attempting to make personal attacks to make your outrage clear now that thief is LESS OP than it was before. Just like I'm bitter that Mirage has one fucking dodge while DD has 3. Yet at the same time I'm not trying to call for nerfs to thief am I? Im not trying to insult or belittle anyone, am I? I just made a reasonable response to this post (although I did forget to quote Yasai). You seem very defensive about thief as a whole. I can relate to feeling passionate about a class. Try to understand I'm not trying to attack your favorite class per say. I was trying to agree that in wvw thiefs reset ability can, at least seem, infinite.

I think you should chill. I could continue to try and quote all the shit you are asserting and respond but I don't see the point. You will continue to try and make it personal rather than about classes and gameplay. shrug Happy New Year

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Also in general I will repeat. I think using a combination of 1-0 and the rest of your keys with one hand while you also click skills with the mouse is required to function. Its some serious nit picking, petty, bullshit to bring it up and an obvious distraction from the actual topic.

How else would you for example blink up onto a ledge.

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

Actually, it proves the thief should NEVER die to a mirage. It shows how hard it is to make contact with the DD due to crazy high mobility and infinite reset thanks to its access to stealth combined with slow kitten clones.

I mean, if the thief runs away? Sure. But thats what I said. At best the thief just runs away and doesnt get a kill. At worst he dies before he can do so. Thats not a winning proposition.

For example: If the DD chose to leave the Mirage (me) wouldn't have enough mobility to catch it, nor would the Mirage be able to run away once the fight has started. I have two options, fight the DD or run to the camp and hope the NPCs took care of it for me.

Slightly incorrect. You have 2 options. Indeed. They are "the thief stays and you kill him", and "the thief runs away and no one dies". There is no option in which you die.

With blink's 35 second cool-down and the fact that its also one of two stun-breaks being used its not like the Mirage can actually close on the DD unless the DD keeps coming back to try and kill the Mirage. Meanwhile, the DD has MORE than enough damage available to kill a Mirage many times over. Additionally, if the Mirage attempts to chase and close on the DD the Mirage its forced to use Blink (1 of 2 stun-breaks) and jaunt (loss of burst damage and clone generation), which then leaves the Mirage basically without jack kitten to use if the DD decides to turn and kill the mirage after a short run. Likewise, if the Mirage tries to run it is forced to use Blink and also its other stun-break if it wants stealth and again
IF the DD Chooses
it can easily chase down the Mirage and kill once those are used up with little to no risk. Again, DD ALWAYS has the advantage and should NEVER lose this match-up PERIOD!

Yeah we saw that DD having more than enough damage available to kill you. Or rather what we saw was them barely scratching you and certainly not being to kill you once, let alone "many times over". What we saw is that if the thief wanted to do enough damage to at least put a dent in you, they die. If they run away before dying then you didnt take nearly enough damage to even be threatened. This is a matchup that Mirage cannot lose. He usually wont win either unless the thief wants to stick around and fight, but lose he will not.

The only reason they didn't kill me is they got sloppy, both times. I would guess the reason the DD got sloppy/kept attacking without much care was they are used to face-rolling over the average CMirage (how ever skills are activated), for example, moving away enough to make my clones melt, then coming back each time (they let me maintain my clones, which is rare/sloppy)

Uh, no. Even with you playing inefficiently, the reason they didn't kill you is because they couldn't. You could see that their damage was just more than insufficient. The reason they died despite you playing super inefficient is because they got sloppy, but the only other outcome is that they ran away and you lived for free. Them killing you would never happen.

Also as to using mouse to skill click, yes I do esp on Mirage you have to use mouse for jaunt and blink constantly. Additionally, unlike Thief I have to actually face my target for most of my attacks to work (ambush wont work for instance) so I don't see much point in doing it any other way. I have always played vanilla and I never claim to be a
super pro gamer bro
type of player so what ever dude.

No you dont? Its super inefficient compared to just using regular inputs. And you think Thief doesnt have to constantly keep its camera in mind, despite having you know,
backstab
, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder? Like kitten, I knew you didnt know thief but still.

Also to be clear. When I posted that I wasn't actually trying to say thief is OP in pvp specifically or that it has no counter or anything, infinite reset is much more useful in wvw and they have access to a wider range of stats that help them get kills very effectively when roaming, with little risk thanks to the ability to reset continually on a number of builds not just DD d/p.

Actually their mobility is a lot more useful in PvP. In WvW all it does is mean that you dont die. You dont kill either though. Youre just useless. Thats why you dont see a lot of thieves roaming noawadys.

I was more posting this after reading:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP?Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC.

PvP? No such thing.If Thief can't pull off their burst on yu, they have to run away and at that point they lost due to losing point control.

...and was attempting to agree that in WvW thief is very strong thanks to things like reset potential. I wasn't actually trying to say Thief is crazy OP. I think one dodge is rather under powered and the fact that I think DD d/p thief should be able to own cmirage typically doesn't imply that thief is OP.

Its not though, thats precisely the issue. WvW thief is weak. It can survive, but it cant accomplish anything. Its a mosquito. As I said, thats why despite being a rogue, you dont see many of them anymore nowadays. Its all Holos and Soulbeasts and Reapers and DHs and Revenants.

I am trying to agree that they have crazy amounts of stealth and mobility that gives them often infinite reset potential. I would say DE is arguably better at the stealth, burst, reset, repeat thing in more safety in wvw. Thief is hella common around in wvw still more so than Mirage for sure.

Moreso than mirage? Sure. Mirage isnt very good. "Hella common" however? Nope. Of the classes I see while roaming, its bottom 4 at best, and Im pretty sure its bottom 3.

"backstab, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder?" yep why do you think I kept trying to move my back around and throw up refelctions + cripple for.

Missing the point here.

Lets face it I'm just talking about the OPs thread and you are just attempting to make personal attacks to make your outrage clear now that thief is LESS OP than it was before. Just like I'm bitter that Mirage has one kitten dodge while DD has 3. Yet at the same time I'm not trying to call for nerfs to thief am I? Im not trying to insult or belittle anyone, am I? I just made a reasonable response to this post (although I did forget to quote Yasai). You seem very defensive about thief as a whole. I can relate to feeling passionate about a class. Try to understand I'm not trying to attack your favorite class per say. I was trying to agree that in wvw thiefs reset ability can, at least seem, infinite.

Oh please. OPs thread was arguing that thief isnt OP. It never was, it just was mandatory as a decap and +1 bot. You then tried to pivot it to WvW, where thief not only wasnt "OP" in a very long time, but is actively bad right now.

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@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Oh please. OPs thread was arguing that thief isnt OP. It never was, it just was mandatory as a decap and +1 bot. You then tried to pivot it to WvW, where thief not only wasnt "OP" in a very long time, but is actively bad right now.

Actually, specifically, I was responding after reading:

@Yasai.3549 said:Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP?Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC.

Which made me think about the video I just made after looking up at OPs topic and then I posted my video for an example of thief reset potential. My error (if any) was to quote the OP and not Yasai.

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@Moradorin.6217 said:You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while.

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Yea I think Mirage got WAY more nerfs I think if you take a look at the Mesmer forums you would realize Mesmer is mostly a dead class. compare the number of recent posts in thief forum of peoples gameplay videos, builds, etc from JUST this month and compare to how many you see in the Mesmer forum. Mesmer is mostly dead outside select uses. Mesmer has very few actual trait options.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Moradorin.6217" said:You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while.

I remember people thinking Mirage was shit after they nerfed, axe damage, super speed on MC, MC duration, vigor on MC. They reduced torch damage, they removed or reduced most sources for confusion because Mirage was "too bursty" Then they reduced clones one scepter and staff, changed cooldowns on blink, decoy, and others because it "had no counter". People thought surely that is all, mirage is trash now, but no it continued. they further reduced damage pretty much across the board for mesmer in pvp/wvw, they took away chronos self shatter, Mirages 2nd dodge, and then they nerfed mesmer a little more just before giving chrono back self shatter. Yea I think Mesmer has had the most nerfs. impactful nerfs too. It has very few build options now and hey all have hard counters.

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while.

I remember people thinking Mirage was kitten after they nerfed, axe damage, super speed on MC, MC duration, vigor on MC. They reduced torch damage, they removed or reduced most sources for confusion because Mirage was "too bursty" Then they reduced clones one scepter and staff, changed cooldowns on blink, decoy, and others because it "had no counter". People thought surely that is all, mirage is trash now, but no it continued. they further reduced damage pretty much across the board for mesmer in pvp/wvw, they took away chronos self shatter, Mirages 2nd dodge, and then they nerfed mesmer a little more just before giving chrono back self shatter. Yea I think Mirage has had the most nerfs. impactful nerfs too. It has very few build options now and hey all have hard counters.

Sure, Mirage is worse, but it doesnt have more nerfs. No class does.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"darren.1064" said:kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild.

The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be.

The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer.

This is meaningless blather. The same can be said of "top" Mesmers gameplay Jazz X man comes to mind. Im sorry you feel butt-hurt that thief has FINALLY been taken down a peg, even tho it still has too much reset potential and is STILL too low risk in many situations. Sad for you. Honest...

Thief artform of the past: p/p DE 33333333Staff DD: 55555555 dodge 2 555555DE of past: kneel mark 1 doneLOL skillz of the artform

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

i do not believe a real high rank thief can loose to a mesmer who use mouse to click utilities.

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@Crozame.4098 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

i do not really thing a real high rank thief can loose to a skill mouse clicker...

He is plat rank so over 3,245...Its not how u activate the skills ITS WHEN AND WHY! eye roll

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"darren.1064" said:kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild.

The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be.

The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer.

This is meaningless blather. The same can be said of "top" Mesmers gameplay Jazz X man comes to mind. Im sorry you feel butt-hurt that thief has FINALLY been taken down a peg, even tho it still has too much reset potential and is STILL too low risk in many situations. Sad for you. Honest...

Thief artform of the past: p/p DE 33333333Staff DD: 55555555 dodge 2 555555DE of past: kneel mark 1 doneLOL skillz of the artform

Okay, how bout you go record a video into ranked on thief and try doing a 5555555 and see how far you get. hint, you won't get very far if you are a skill clicker.

Please i would LOVE to see this video. You talk the talk, now walk the walk.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"darren.1064" said:kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild.

The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be.

The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer.

This is meaningless blather. The same can be said of "top" Mesmers gameplay Jazz X man comes to mind. Im sorry you feel butt-hurt that thief has FINALLY been taken down a peg, even tho it still has too much reset potential and is STILL too low risk in many situations. Sad for you. Honest...

Thief artform of the past: p/p DE 33333333Staff DD: 55555555 dodge 2 555555DE of past: kneel mark 1 doneLOL skillz of the artform

Okay, how bout you go record a video into ranked on thief and try doing a 5555555 and see how far you get. hint, you won't get very far if you are a skill clicker.

Please i would LOVE to see this video. You talk the talk, now walk the walk.

LoL bounding ftw was funny when it was OP

Bounding:February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

(Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.5. Increased bonus damage from 10% to 15%.

May 16, 2017

Bound: The damage of this ability has been reduced by 24% in PvP only.

April 28, 2020

This skill no longer ignores the immobile condition.

Vault:February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

(Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6.

December 11, 2018

The damage of this attack will no longer occur if the thief shadowsteps after the skill has begun.

May 16, 2017

The initiative of this skill has been increased from 5 to 6 in PvP only.

Weakening ChargeFebruary 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

(Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.7 to 0.45. Reduced weakness duration per hit from 2 seconds to 1 second.

Hey Justice, you said you no longer play this game so by your definition of walking the walk you have no legs.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Tried thief a couple of times.Hated how everything was so incredibly easy, any mistake went unpunished (no matter how hard you kitten up, you can always just dodge away, or stealth away -and shadow rejuvenation will bring you back to 100%-, or teleport away, or steal+unblockable daze that bypasses stab at the last second, or blind at the last second).Didn't touch it again, I was disgusted. Not gonna touch it just to prove a point on the forum.

Let's play a different game: you try another class and then you come back here to tell us how it feels to play a game where people can actually punish you when you make a mistake, instead of having a hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons. Deal?

My experience is holo is good at resets.

You can chain defenses to get away enough to single out a thief on a shiro.

Weavers are good and dodging and running away.

Mirages, well mesmers in general are pretty hard to pin down.

I mean if we play full glass, zero defense on anything we probably cant run away.

Thief has one initiative pool, so after any "good" skill use they have maybe one more, and everything else goes "on cooldown".

The escape buttons lol.....

Just curious, what are the full hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons? (for thief)

Three dodges with a very long travelled distance+ half a dodge from the signet, teleport which acts as a double stunbreak and also a cleanse, some more evade on dagger storm, one more evade on the healing skill (that, or some 5-6s of stealth, your choice), then even more stealth if you're running d\p (I'm assuming you do) + unblockable blindness here and there 'cause why tf shouldn't we add some more defensive options to thief they don't have anything, + swipe being an unblockable instacast ranged CC that bypasses stab and with the traits has a fairly low recharge time as well.

Forgot anything?

INB4 you're talking about daredevil not core thief. Yes I am.

as I said like 100 times before its problem of D/P weapon set, other weapon sets doesn't have that huge impact

Man its obviously u dont like teef weapon kits that include pistols or I'm betting rifle, that's ok as everyone dislikes the playstyles of some kits.

Man , go play other weapon sets, then d/p then other again then d/p .After this manipulations look how bad you are and how op is d/p over other weapon sets. There no skill in spam blind from shadowshot and blackpowder , zero skill
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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

i do not really thing a real high rank thief can loose to a skill mouse clicker...

He is plat rank so over 3,245...Its not how u activate the skills ITS WHEN AND WHY!
eye roll

Ok, so you are talking about ranks in WvW... ok, eye roll~

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@Moradorin.6217 said:LoL bounding ftw was funny when it was OP

Bounding:February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

(Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.5. Increased bonus damage from 10% to 15%.

May 16, 2017

Bound: The damage of this ability has been reduced by 24% in PvP only.

April 28, 2020

This skill no longer ignores the immobile condition.

Vault:February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

(Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6.

December 11, 2018

The damage of this attack will no longer occur if the thief shadowsteps after the skill has begun.

May 16, 2017

The initiative of this skill has been increased from 5 to 6 in PvP only.

Weakening ChargeFebruary 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

(Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.7 to 0.45. Reduced weakness duration per hit from 2 seconds to 1 second.

Hey Justice, you said you no longer play this game so by your definition of walking the walk you have no legs.

So you link the changes page as if this somehow proves a point? literally trying to deflect by changing the subject

upload a video of you playing thief spamming 5555. conversations stops here till' you go do that.

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@Styros.8931 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Tried thief a couple of times.Hated how everything was so incredibly easy, any mistake went unpunished (no matter how hard you kitten up, you can always just dodge away, or stealth away -and shadow rejuvenation will bring you back to 100%-, or teleport away, or steal+unblockable daze that bypasses stab at the last second, or blind at the last second).Didn't touch it again, I was disgusted. Not gonna touch it just to prove a point on the forum.

Let's play a different game: you try another class and then you come back here to tell us how it feels to play a game where people can actually punish you when you make a mistake, instead of having a hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons. Deal?

My experience is holo is good at resets.

You can chain defenses to get away enough to single out a thief on a shiro.

Weavers are good and dodging and running away.

Mirages, well mesmers in general are pretty hard to pin down.

I mean if we play full glass, zero defense on anything we probably cant run away.

Thief has one initiative pool, so after any "good" skill use they have maybe one more, and everything else goes "on cooldown".

The escape buttons lol.....

Just curious, what are the full hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons? (for thief)

Three dodges with a very long travelled distance+ half a dodge from the signet, teleport which acts as a double stunbreak and also a cleanse, some more evade on dagger storm, one more evade on the healing skill (that, or some 5-6s of stealth, your choice), then even more stealth if you're running d\p (I'm assuming you do) + unblockable blindness here and there 'cause why tf shouldn't we add some more defensive options to thief they don't have anything, + swipe being an unblockable instacast ranged CC that bypasses stab and with the traits has a fairly low recharge time as well.

Forgot anything?

INB4 you're talking about daredevil not core thief. Yes I am.

as I said like 100 times before its problem of D/P weapon set, other weapon sets doesn't have that huge impact

Man its obviously u dont like teef weapon kits that include pistols or I'm betting rifle, that's ok as everyone dislikes the playstyles of some kits.

Man , go play other weapon sets, then d/p then other again then d/p .After this manipulations look how bad you are and how op is d/p over other weapon sets. There no skill in spam blind from shadowshot and blackpowder , zero skill

I play all weapon sets and do well on all but d/d builds so.......playing other weapon sets other than d/p doesn't make me feel like I'm bad, that may be just a u issue. Maybe practice a bit more on other builds.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

So you link the changes page as if this somehow proves a point? literally trying to deflect by changing the subject

upload a video of you playing thief spamming 5555. conversations stops here till' you go do that.

HIs point wasn't that 5-spam thief is currently good.

HIs point was that that was how it was played in the past. The past. Not currently.

I mean...... it's a wrong point. But at least try and address the point he is actually making and not one you've made up in your head.

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